Thank you for demonstrating! While the Raspberry PI and Patchbox is an amazing system, it shows that efforts and resources are, as in all other fields, in music is substantiell to get high quality results. And so is it here: the sound of the Zoom MS 100BT is way more better, broader and cleaner than the sound (of course of the patches) of the Raspberry Pi. And that's because the experts and engineers of Zoom are not sitting the whole day around or they are bringing something arbitrary to their devices, they are working hard for their money (as in every other company) and people can hear this. In addition to that, while the Raspberry is an versatile and powerful device, it is simpler to have some small devices just from the shelf than to configuring such a versatile device like Raspberry to the diverse special functions musicians need. There is a difference in between live and studio and I can imagine that the Raspberry would sound better with the PiSound board hooked up. Thank you Mr. Steinberg for this interesting comparison!
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you understood the point I was trying to make without saying it aloud. All the effects I tried on Linux a firmly stuck in the 90s regarding sound quality. Also, gathering 2000 effects and adding a menu just isn't a good business strategy. A bit of preselection would certainly help (listening to the effects and deciding which ones are in line with your product, for example). On the (cheap!) Zoom, you can just randomly select up to 6 effects and the result will sound good. On the "patchbox", a lot of tweaking is required, as the presets are really lackluster. That doesn't make me want to buy the actual (hardware) product after testing the free download.
Unfassbar, genau und zwar genau das nämlich das MODEP hab ich gesucht, bzw ein Video dazu und keins gefunden. Gott bin ich dir dankbar. Ach ja ich sag schon mal gratz zu 3K Subs.
I'm new to your channel and I'm super impressed with your tutorials. Totally in line with what I'm looking to setup in my small but growing home studio. I get my raspberry pi today so am watching your tutorials to help me set it up properly. Thanks very much!!
Hmm. I can't say which one I prefer the most, they both do a fine job as an effect processor. I do like the amp sim's on the Zoom better than on MODEP, that's one thing for sure. But for the effects, they both do what need to do. All I know is that I've heard some magnificent effects coming from that Zoom pedal, so I don't know really. I guess my choice would be the Zoom! :)
I really wanted the Open Source Effects to be awesome, but sadly, they aren't. I've checked quite a number of them. The amp sims are firmly stuck in the mid-90s, reverb algorithms are nothing to write home about (especially if you're a fan of the Valhalla / Strymon type of reverbs). Delay, Compressors, Chorus, Phasers are good / ok, but then again, those effects are "good" on any effects pedal. Still, the MODEP plugin is awesome and a lot of work obviously went into that GUI and setting up the Linux realtime OS. So I wanted to make this video without being negative because the work that company has put into curating all the effects and making them easily accessible has to be admired.
Have you tried Michael Willis' Dragonfly reverbs by any chance? To me they seem to sound quite good, especially if you like BIG reverbs with very long tails.
@@marcvandoornik I think I tried it. It's quite good, the thing is, the Zoom pedal is better (it's emulations of the Black Hole Reverb, Particle Reverb and Shimmer are quite impressive). The PI is more flexible, overall, as you can more easily set up signal routes and be digital from start to end.
Chorus on Raspberry PI is pretty muddy/noisy. I guess you should’ve tweaked it a bit for more clarity. Also interesting thing to check is latency for both processing paths
Hi, thanks for watching! I've tweaked the effects a bit before making this video. I guess using the effects in a more decent manner might improve the overall impression, but the point is, you can go "all in" on the ZOOM and it will still sound quite nice. I'll check the latency and post it here. But it ranges on "barely recognizable" on both devices (thanks to the Linux realtime kernel used in the Patchbox OS).
2 Years later and I finally got round to making one about a month ago with a Hifiberry ADC and Pi4 and sold the MS-70cdr over the weekend, It can bug out on occasion but hey. To my ears better
Sorry about my stupid question, why use the midi keyboard to test the guitar stomp box? Can I hook up my Digitaltech RP-1 with the midi keyboard and tweak it? Thx in advance
Hi, thanks for watching. I used the midi keyboard as a sound source because I'm not a good guitar player. ;-) On the RasPi "pedal", I also used it for playing the built-in synth.
Both Pi versions sounded conspicuously dark. Could it be that there's an internal high pass in the Zoom to control low end mud from dominating the effect? Or alternatively, some issue attenuating the high end information?
That's possible. I think you can get better sounds out of the PI by investing more time and expertise in patch creation. My point here was that adding a few example patches would have gone a long way to wow potential customers in buying the real thing. ;)
For dedicated guitar/live keys effects, I would definitely use the Zoom over the Pi. However, with the advent of the PiSound card and the fact that ORAC is available on the Pi, I would go that route for experimental and home recording. MODEP looks cool as well and it doesn't sound too shabby IMO. By the by, have you had a chance to check out the PiSound yet?
Thanks for watching! I didn't use the PiSound yet. From what I hear, it's certainly the best "Audio Hat" out there. Personally, I'd be more interested in the MIDI Hub by the same company... :-)
Well.using a PI, even with the optimized OS, it is still running sound processing on general purpose OS and general purpose hardware. A digital pedal is special development for a one purpose hardware - a real HW-DSP. Later should give better results. I think both have weak and strong points in the audio comparison. However, the flexibility of a PI effects processor / synth / audio-midi-whatever thingy - that's just somethin completely different - if you want do dive deep in that rabbit hole and have some computer nerdy factettes beside you musicianship ... or if you are a computer nerd with music factettes (like me) ...
Hi, thanks for watching and for your comment! I'm fully aware of that. Nevertheless, it's a choice given to the end user (as there are also fully-featured effect pedals based on a PI and open source modules). And there are some truly great-sounding effect plugins out there readily compiled for the PI. I think my point here is (and I didn't want to state it that loudly in order to not step on anyone's foot) that if you release a free version (a demo so to speak) it's a good idea to include some cool presets so your demo works as an appetizer for the product you're selling. E.g. Valhalla DSP plugins are awesome, and they made one of those plugins free to show that off. This specialised OS here comes with a lot of free plugins, but you're left to figure out the good ones yourself. Best regards!
@@mr_floydst Exactly, it's about the user and the users choice and need. Take me. I'm a professional nerd ;) And what i learned, don't mix music apps, DAW and plugins in to your day o day workstation for IT stuff. However, i have seen your Video about Reaper on PI. Well, now i have a PI 400 connected to my Steinberg UR 22 interface, Reaper, practically all plugins included in the PI Linux distribution , Gutarixx, some nice synths and PD in a small, audio dedicated system. And this is great. Not professional, but more than good enougth for my hobby and music fun/learning requirements. And finally, for what I can do with it - dirt cheap!
I have been contemplating getting the PiSound with MODEP. But after reading this i changed my mind. Some very good points made here. For starters, I don't need a processor for a guitar, i just want multi FX for my synths - mainly delay and reverb for when i jam. If i record hardware synths in the DAW I just use plug in FX. I understand there is a set up for the pi which could take some time. I already have a PODxt i use for guitar, although old now i have seen test on other RU-vid videos that the front end of the chain is still excellent while using a modern cab IR in the DAW. I think i will pick up some Zoom pedals. Thank you Mr Steinberg and viewer commentators.
Nice! 👍😉 I'm giving this a try and am struggling with one element of it. Using Raspiaudio, which sockets are you using for input / output when using the guitar? I was thinking of trying to solder some ¼" jack sockets and fit in to an enclosure.
Thanks for watching! Yes, the raspiaudio has no audio in. You need to use another "audio hat" which does provide that. I used a standard USB audio interface, but that caused a lot of glitches and crashes.
@@mr_floydst Cheers Floyd 👍 I'll use the RaspiAudio elsewhere then. Looks like a PiSound card may be required, that has MIDI too which woud be cool....just don't fancy the 100 euros.
a) MODEP works from the command line which saves CPU b) PiSOUND audio header prob sounds better than the one you are using, granted the Zoom prob still sounds better c) you can also run Pure Data/ORAC for fx :)
Thanks for watching and commenting. The fun thing about Linux is: there are always millions of alternative ways to reach a goal. I don't want to diminish what the community and that company which created this interface achieved here. But you'll also have to consider the point of view of a user who doesn't want to deal with command lines 'n stuff. For them, MODEP is an awesome interface. I think the whole thing could be vastly improved by a) installing some awesome sounding presets (because going through 300+ apps/lugins to find the ones which are worth your time isn't fun) b) introducing a user-based star-ranking system for the effects plugins and apps. Some of them are really, really bad while some of them sound at least decent. CPU time is not the problem here. I was able to line up 10 effects without issues. Best regards!
Not quite - I explained it in the video. I recorded the guitar parts on my R24 first and then played the WAV file into the plugin chain on the PI (you can do that by "plugging" an audio player in at the start of the chain). I did this in order to sort out the USB audio interface as a source of inferior sound quality of the PI.
Thanks for watching! Yes, that's true. The MODEP plugin is awesome, but the open source Amp sims and Reverbs can't compare to the commercially available stuff, sadly.
Hi, thanks for watching! The PI4 is quite powerful. Please consider watching my latest video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zPFc_QhJKRA.html on how to get a really big reverb on that computer ;-)
@@mr_floydst checked! Floyd, could you tell me how well you think the audio programs works on the Pi4? Like reaper, audacity, jack, rakkarak, etc... also, i saw you now the blokas pi sound... here in brazil they arrive about the same price as other audio interfaces, so no advantages except portability? Low price computers might become a thing here, so i find your videos inspiring... thanks for being so cool!
@@RafaCoringaProducoes Reaper works pretty well, but the lack of plugins is a concern. You can work around that using qjackctl, but it's a hassle. Audacity is the same as anywhere, it's great and really useful. In fact, most programs are great and useful, it's just that the user experience is somewhat smoother on the "commercial" systems. Be prepared to do a lot of google research. :-)
@@mr_floydst indeed, lots of research... i guess most of linux intermediary uses are already used to this incompatibilities / DIY spirit / learn with the comunity. Nice to hear about the qjackctl alternative for reaper plugins (this was one of the same concearns as the part 2 test for Ri4 as DAW by the Hop Pole Studio channel). Im actualy an audacity user, and not sure if going to learn reaper or ardour... anyway, thanks for the answer again!
The Zoom pedal was better in all cases, just my opinion. The RPi effects were not that far behind in terms of quality and clarity. This type of thing will always be progressing - both the pedals and the VSTs. I have the Zoom MS-100BT and there are a few effects I think it does not do well. The Shimmer Reverb on the MS-100BT is not great so to cover that area I bought an Oceans 11. Give it a couple of years and with the RPi progressing the way it is and the developers using it will both improve their products. The version of the RPi was not stated in this video. Was it the RPi 4 or older?
Thanks for watching! It was model 3. I agree with you. Creating a great sounding reverb requires knowledge and experience, and unfortunately, the last 10 years have not seen much progress on native linux (the things you can compile on the PI). One can only hope some of the VST developers share their insights / codes some day.
Hi, thanks for watching! The USB interface is just a very cheap $7 device, you will find those in the bargain bin. The "hat" is this one: raspiaudio.com/produit/audio Best regards!
Thanks for watching! You are right, both are great, but only one is effortless ;-) (and that's why you have to pay money for it, while you have to "pay" time for the other one).
@@juanpablogomez9122 That is correct, too, but also not contradictory to what I said. I made this video because I liked the software a lot, especially the web interface, and wanted to get word out there ;) It's also true that buying a stomp pedal gets you a robust device which sounds great and can be used in live situations more easily. (I know there are the MOD DUO / DWARF devices which do exactly this and give you a ton of great presets, but those aren't cheap)
Great tutorial, exactly what I was looking for! I'm having a hard time configuring it though following along. When I get to pick the module and choose Modep I just a get a "Oops! Something ain't right. Let's try again" message. No explanation!
Hi! That usually happens when either the drivers for your "sound card/audio hat" are not yet installed or the jack daemon is already running and can't be restarted. Try one of the following things: 1) install your sound card correctly. 2.) reboot the PI and try again or 3) try another audio setup, for example lower sampling frequency. Best regards!
@@mr_floydst What Sound card are you using? I know you mention it's not that great, if not which one would you recommend? I'm using AudioInjector and still striking out just getting setup!
I use this one when I don't need an audio input. amzn.to/2zWL2qi (that one is cheap and sounds really good!) And I also have this one: amzn.to/31yboe5 - this works, but I experienced audio glitches while trying to record. So I can't really recommend it.
I made some videos on how to setup JACK & ALSA, also. Check my channel page for the Raspberry PI stuff, I think it's in this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ae5TYhnhp3w.html
Hi Mike, it's on floydsteinberg.bandcamp.com , but this particular track isn't there because it's not really finished yet. I had some lyrics on my mind, but then I noticed my voice is to weak to deliver it correctly so now I'm searching for someone who can do it instead of me. :-)
Hello Floyd! I'm very interested of making sound effect processor for my hardware synth on Raspberry pi. But how could I do this from scratch. Where can I find a complete list of steps, what do I need to do in order to assemble a raspberry pi with inputs and outputs, preferably stereo and moddep program? I will be very grateful if you tell me how to do this. I'm new to raspberry but its capabilities blew my mind. Thank you
If you're new, I think getting a USB audio interface to go along with your RasPi is the easiest way to get results. All you need to do then is to plug in that audio card into the PI and follow the steps shown in this video.
If I used a pi 3 with a touch screen case, could i set the effects up in real time? I really like the idea to have it just sit on my amp and take were ever and not have to plug it in to twick it.
Thanks for watching! You could do that, but please also take a look at this project which is more like what you're describing. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Aq9Bavd7OqY.html
Uh, tried it and so far none of my USB Audio Interfaces appears in jack. I use a Guitar2USB from Rocksmith and a Line 6 UX1, both work in ALSA and I can sample my guitar with them on the Raspi (same patchbox OS). Thats weird.
Thanks for watching! Well, jack can use alsa as it's driver. Make sure that your audio devices are showing up when typing "aplay -l" into the console. Then, after starting qjackctl, click on setup and choose ALSA as driver. On the "advanced" tab, your hardware should now show up in the list.
Welcome to Linux ;-) Perhaps it's a server problem, perhaps it's a configuration problem that will be solved later on. You could try to 1) install an older version that is known to work properly or 2) try to use a cable connection. If you know your way around linux, you could also open a console and inspect the error logs in /var/log and try to find out what's up. Best regards and good luck!
Thanks for watching and commenting! My point / criticism here was that the Open Source system comes with no presets at all. There are hundreds of effects to choose from, some sound awful, some sound great. How is one supposed to seperate the wheat from the chaff? So the freely available version doesn't work as an appetizer for the commercial hardware, which is unfortunate. The MOD DUO was / is a great device which was sadly overlooked.
That was a nice comparison. Thank you. Even I really wanted to like Pi more, I'm gaining toward the zoom. Very nice looking guitar. Oh yeah.. please don't say Steinberg as Americans do. Let them have THEIR Spielberg. ;)
Thanks for watching! There is a (small) chance the PI didn't sound as good as the ZOOM because of the settings and plugins I chose. That could easily be remedied by providing a handful of presets that show the "good stuff" (there are so many amp models and reverbs to choose from). The "demo version" of patchbox didn't make me want to buy the hardware, which is a missed marketing opportunity... The user interface is fantastic.
Clipping could be my fault as a year or so ago, the audio tracks in my videos were too "hot" (I've corrected that in later videos). But it's also possible you're hearing XRUNs (CPU is overpowered by the effects and starts dropping / stalling)
Very interesting Guitar, what is it? Both sounds very useable, I went away with being impressed with the Zoom. Great comparison, Nice song and sounds! Visuals also very cool Thanks for sharing
@@mr_floydst Ah thank you Floyd, i was thinking on creating a "pedal" with Raspberry, just for the Convolver. Look for the user "Hyllis", knows a way to do it, but i don't know what software is using, is not bad. I'm not sure, but it seems the Mod Dward Duo uses MODEP?
Yes, it does. This here was a test version of that pedal, so to speak. And I think they might have done good for themselves if they had included an ever so tiny amount of preset patches to try, to wet the appetite for the real thing. Zynthian handled this much better, you're getting the full software with that.
@@chrisliddiard725 :-) Well, I know that the open source guys are doing this for free more or less, so slamming them for not sounding like a company which is in this business for decades doesn't feel right. :)
Yeah... I'm thinking about creating a Pi based synth for my midi keyboard.. but I am already expecting none of the open source stuff is going to live up to my expectations unless I'm willing to spend a lot of time going over all options and having to go through the sources to extract the interesting parts... I can already see myself ending up writing everything from scratch. Open Source Software is like a labyrinth with lots of dead ends and loopholes. Most projects are either nothing more than pet projects which are either abandoned or “maintained” by unwilling individuals refusing to commit anything that doesn't fit their personal goals. Honestly, creating my own pet project looks like the more fun approach; at least I have the decency not to open source it or not trying to claim it's something it isn't :D
Thanks for watching! While I absolutely support the idea of starting from scratch, there are quite some programs that are worth taking a closer look at. E.g. Zynthian, patchbox OS and (software synth) ZynAddSubFX (you need to compile the latest version yourself, which isn't that hard). The latter has MIDI learning built in, so you can use a BCR 2000 or something to control it. Best regards!
@@mr_floydst I think there is an sudo apt install zynaddsubfx for some Pi distributions now. Also worth checking out Dexed for DX7 emulation- I made a video on my channel on how to build that. Maybe the changes I suggested are checked into Dexed now.
@@stephenhookings1985 Hi! Yes, there is, but you will get that old user interface, which is really convoluted and counter-intuitive. I'll check your video!
@@mr_floydst for the Zyn? Sure. I used to just plug it into the CME UF80 and let the knobs adjust "stuff". The Zyn is such an awesome synth. I subscribed and foe sure will be looking at your contents. Regarding the Zoom I have been writing up the MIDI sysex for them based on existing Internet and my own reverse engineering. Nowadays I tend to play bass guitar but these pedals seem applicable to some old synths (my k1r zB). Thanks again RU-vid algorithm for suggesting your channel :-)
I don't think this will work. Android is running the Linux kernel, but most of the system is not Linux. But there should be similar apps in the Playstore.
Hi! Perhaps this mod.audio/devices/duo-x/ is what you're looking for. Also, you can install Windows 11 worproject.com/ on a RasPi or compatible device, with it's X64 emulator capable of running multiple plugins.
