RATE VS TURN - F-16A VS MiG-29 Dogfights 

What i have learned, when you face a plane that outrates and outturns you, you need to force a 3 circle reverse rate submission maneuver

Not pictured: Lvl 15 F-4S comes along and kills both of you before crashing into the ground

The F16 needs to learn the "cow over moon" manoeuvre. While the MiG 29 should use the "rolling duck". Afterwards they can start a farm together. Great video dude.

i swear if top tier allows long dogfights like those, i'd play top tier more. Just by watching the dogfights i can feel the adrenaline rush, hell they should make a 5v5 top tier match option. hate that top tier now is just clicking buttons

With altitude the bigger wings of the fulcrum closes the performance gap with your F-16 in the rate somewhat- on the deck you really do best at more like 650 IAS, but for me 700 is preferred as it allows for headroom to cash in for extra AoA, vertical potential, etc. From there, I maintain my desired speed with throttle and G-control while maintaining proper lift vector placement (usually on the bandits high six) At high altitude I imagine you need to maintain that speed even more religiously- you're right in that you need to prioritize speed and energy management in the F-16 but 550 is a bit low for it. At 650-700, you keep the energy disparity at a better minimum with your bandit if they decide to extend like you mention doing in the Fulcrum

Great examples shown here. Little extra bit for the F-16's rate envelopes. As currently modeled, the F-16 Blk.15/20 will rate best at speeds between 800 and 850km/h IAS for sustained fighting. If the fight has already gone 2-circle and you aren't in imminent danger of being shot by your opponent, try and stay in this speed regime. You will rate around the circle at around 26 degrees per second when on the deck, though you're gonna need to manage your pilots G-Load. Not feasible if you don't have an expert crew. While you can match the rate speed at lower envelopes, you are also losing allot more speed and are more vulnerable to a 3rd party IMO. Should still be used only in certain cases since it requires some set up.

Nice video, but at 6:10 the F-16 has 4 minutes of fuel while the MiG29 has 22, that's an enormous difference. Also at 15:52 the F-16 has only 2 minutes and 30 seconds while the MiG29 has over 14, again an enormous difference. At 16:55 instead the MiG29 has far less fuel, that's why it out climbs the F-16 so massively. I think it would have been better if both of you had 20 mins (or 20 for F16 and 30 for MiG29 since often the MiG29 drinks more fuel on full afterburner) without fuel consumption. That way you don't risk on creating too much fuel difference

I’d really like to see more of this 1 on 1 comparison/ tactics content

Holy moly I just got the Mig29 a couple days ago... Thank for video defyn very cool

I would love to see you make a series like this. This is by far my favorite video of yours. Like what some other comments have said a similar script as growling sidewinders videos but in WT.

All you need to know is that the Mig-29A wants to fight in the 1-circle (nose-to-nose) and the F-16 wants to fight in the 2-circle (nose-to-tail). The Mig-29A's strategy will be to trade altitude to cut the circle of the F-16 like we saw in the second dogfight to force the 1-circle fight. However, if the F-16 continues it's 2-circle gameplan eventually the Mig-29 will run out of altitude and it'll just be a matter of time before the F-16 gets guns on or the Mig-29 falls into the WEZ of an AIM-9. The Mig-29 can counter the F-16's 2-circle by either cutting into the 2-circle like I mentioned earlier, or by taking an offset 2-circle and using it's high AoA ability to do a one-time cash in of energy to get the F-16 into it's WEZ and fire off a missile or cannons. But this leaves the Mig-29 in a vulnerable position if it doesn't work, and will likely end the fight sooner in favor of the F-16. The F-16 can counter the 1-circle fight by adjusting its maneuvers to follow the flight path of the Mig-29. Eventually, it'll even out into a standard 2-circle. Things that the F-16 needs to keep in mind is to maintain a tight enough circle as not to allow the Mig-29 the offset 2-circle mentioned earlier, but not to tight as to drain it's energy too quickly and allow the Mig-29 to disengage. Also, considering the G-limiter that's in place for the F-16, creating a large radius for the opening fight and over-shooting the Mig-29 is a problem that pilots will need to adjust for by either engaging the airbrake during the inital parts of the fight or entering the fight at a speed of 400 knots.

Would have liked to see a Block 10, from what I can tell its flight model is just straight up better than the MLU/ADF. The small elevator F-16s weigh 300kg less, which is not insignificant.

How do you think the new F14 coming out will fair with it's strongeer engines and thrust ratio?

I think it would be more helpful if we are talking about props, this type of style is AWSOME for new players who will mainly be playing props, and showing them popular matchups is a good way to educate them, the amount of people i see turnfighting a 109 in a p47 at low speeds is scary

warthunder 100% needs a 1v1 dogfight matchmaker

Defyn went full Growling Sidewinder mode for this video 💀

I just got the kfir c7 and after watching this it has occurred to me that I could pull with those planes for about two turns then I’d just fall out of the sky like a rock, it’s a blast to fly tho

These slow speed fights in the Mig29 or F14 are where you need a split throttle.

For some reason this vid didnt show up in my feed, but i looove these kinds of 1v1 vids ❤

SO my only gripe about the video was that you didn't use airbrake on certain oppurtunities that arose when you first swapped to f16 (when you went vertical and say it turns to a brick or in 6:00 that would be easy for an f16 to pull in with airbreak) ik you said that maintaining 500kmh is important and i agree as it prevents it from becoming a total brick below 400 kmh yet i still think you might have been able to get some shots in by using it. I just consider the airbrake to be your combat flaps. also did they change how flaps interact with the F16? I recall you saying in a previous video that it borks the performance causing it to turn less.

It still bothers me that the f16 should have just as good if not better maneuverability. But it’s warthunder so whatever. Also great video.

Finaly. Could not find a another vid thats like this, good jobb

Guys i know this is unrelated but my time is dwindling, i suffer from a terminal illness called "skill issue." The doctor said my silver lions are plummeting every day and that im not getting enough rp. I guess it's time to say goodby because I won't be a free to play anymore.

People like to jump conclusions and hate on WT modeling but the way you play the F-16 here is the SAME way you would play in DCS. So there's that.

the problem is with type of game mode that wt have u cant have such long fights that what makes the mig29 much superior it fits the game much better when u can kill enemies faster

Believe it or not, the hardest turning F16 in the game is the last one in the USA tech tree. The regular Block 10 version. Pulls much harder than the ADF or MLU.

I like to use as a trick the Aim7 without PD is slow fights beacsue he won't notch it and the missile continues tracking for a while after being chaffed

Growling sidewinder's lessons from his videos are very applicable here

Do you still remember soggycumrag, the guy in the J21R. The guy who tried going down after they lost the dogfight but they flew into the cumzone. We all have to thank them for comeing into the game as they will be remembered forever.

This is so cool, always been looking for a custom air battle community, i'v got f14a and have at least played it 3 days total time in custom against random people, by any chance r there a discord community like that?

Defyn at 3:40 I see the instructor circle there, did you just move the circle there w/ cursor so that the plane would be turning like that? Or is the circle just you using freelook? I assume youre also using keyboard to give rudder input/elev? Thanks for any insight

hey DEFYN, do you do any coaching kind of stuff? I'm trying to learn from these videos but it's a bit difficult for me.

what have i learnt today... f16 was built to be the best dog fighter and it performs like a boat nice

hey i buyed the decal, i got the notification but i cant find it

The F-16 you can very easily go ballistic on you if you're not careful

The f16 is primarily a rate fighter it was built to be a rate fighter and it's better to go to the 2 circle if possible, but that doesn't mean it cant hangout on the 1 circle

Reminds me of the good old mig vs sabre days tbh, cool vid

Why the MLU and not the F-16’s with the smaller elevons?

Idk why Gaijin made it that way it was wayyy better manoeuvrability at higher speeds

I really wish my neighbor would get his last 2 mig 29s repaired and flying, i think he only has 2 working models and i would have thought adversarial training with USAF would be hard to do with just 2 examples

all PALE in comparison to the Me-163 Komet with 4x20mms

Nah, I'll slap any Mig 29 in an F16, the F16 is way better. I do enjoy dogfighting so feel free to challenge me should you disagree lol Sheeesssh#7179

Dogfights looks so easy in air RB with 3rd person view and missiles red marker and perfect vision on the enemy once you're used to Sim... Sim makes your chair wet of your sweat and tears. It's where de real fights are

Please please please do this more with other planes

should have been using the regular f-16a much better turning no?

F14vsMig29 please

So when they are both on full fuel the mig29 will always win right ?

Why aren't you thrust vectoring? Or does MiG-29 not have TV?

how about f14? how to win it in a dogfight with other top jets?

The f-16 (block 10) is stupidly strong with realistic/sim controls. I did a few dogfights with someone in a mig 29 on normal mouse aim and I basically danced around the mig in most of them. I was also able to fight a lot more aggressively.

Who would win a 1v1 defyn or phly

Does the F-16AJ not share flight model with other block f16 adf and such?

the mig 29 flight model is overall "broken" and especially how fast it is and how fast it accelerates... I have no idea from which secret document they get their info from, but it is probably some soviet era book with cooked numbers which was used to please the officials and hopefully not earn the engineers of the time a place in the gulag. Also a big factor on air rb is how well they have implemented the "instructor" and there is really nothing you can do if they gaijin f'ed this up. The fact that you CANT really rate fight on air rb since all you can do is pull max stick means that something like the MiG is going to win pretty much every time since its great on the 1 circle and "ok" on the two circle fight... which it shouldnt, hence why I say its fm is busted... In reality, if a MiG tries to ratefight, the 16, the 14, especially the 18 in the future, it will lose and lose badly... not lose by a little bit like we see in yr vid...

turn your afterburner off for f16 if you need more control of the stick for shooting. i think the frame doesn't catch the air when its below 400km/h but of course keep afterburner on for more sustained turn rate if needed.

Best teaching channel for wt flying

I would love to do dogfights in this game I’m a hardcore dcs player but unfortunately this game you never see dogfights after 9.0 br jet fighters

More 1v1 duel vids please

More dogfight videos I love these

>the gsh-30 does absolutely nothing Bruh, whut? Literally every time you've hit him with it, he turns into a ball of flame or even outright explodes. 1:39, 2:16, 8:52, three times in a row you land shots on him and three times in a row that's the end of him. It's only on that fourth burst that he survives an unlucky hit.

The flaps of the f16 are wierd cuz somehow u turn worse with them idk

How do you go about handling air field campers in props? I keep getting high kill games ruined by these guys.

1:39 YIPPIE

You're wrong. All the f-16s fly differently. Retry with the block 10

Needed better matched pilots

There are r27Ts in my walls

F16 is a --rape-- rate fighter be at its comfort speed and out rate anything. It will lose in a one circle nose to nose fight, it will lose in most vertical fights. Mig-29 is good at everything, it has better AoA control and cus of that its better in once circle nose to nose fight. Acceleration is awesome so vertical fights could be worth it. Its like the F86 vs Mig-15 Bis but with a modern skin.

I wish War Thunder had a 1v1 lobby and you didnt have to stick to custom battles. I would almost exclusively play that.

in a real battle i guess crew exp will decide a lot. and i cannot stress enough to Mig 23's players that they cannot out-turn a F-16

realistically, f-16 has better rate. one circle fighting is where it shines

great video

40 seconds into the first fight, you actually gave up a 1,000,000% guaranteed win by not rolling right and climbing over him

Realistic is not a accurate compareson of the vehicles just a heads up

The f16A block 10 dogfight better ADF and MLU as they are heavier. Never 1v1 in anything other than the f16A block 10s. Dude brings out the MLU the slowest and heaviest one. BTW guys also the F16A block 10s climb faster by 2000 feet, have better brake capability being lighter and have faster acceleration to Mach 1.06 by 4 seconds. than the ADF/MLU. Anyone who has both will feel the difference. The F16 needs to rate AND climb not pulling over 9 Gs. That is the only way to outrate the Mig29 and come behind him. The 29 is of course still the more superior fighter. Especially the lighter German one

would be interestin to see what you think about the Mirage 2000 vs each of the two

awesome footage. i learn a lot by your videos. and i´ve got 8000h in this game. Ty sir :)

Awesome video! I wish you would make more of these, similar to what the Growling Sidewinder is doing, but for War Thunder :) Would love to see Mig-21 vs F-4; F-86 vs MiG-15; BF-109 vs Spitfire vs Mustang vs Yak-1 vs Zero and so on... So many possibilities!

This is cool and all but there's a very small issue... An R-27 is heading towards my direction completely undetected.

It would be cool to see what things like the J-7E, F-14 or Mirage 2000C can do against a MiG-29. I feel like the F-14 with the wings out could actually compete with it quite well in these kinds of fights.

9 months later mig29 nerfed 3 times and useless

Feels like mig29's turning ability at high speed heavily relies on it's ability to pull some crazy Gs,you can even reach 14gs at low fuel and the turning circle is ridiculously small and it doesn't bleed that much of speed like it does at low speed.

"He is draining my balls dry"

Rate is natural Rate is healthy Rate is good Society needs more rate Cultivate rate

You have to fight against f16a, not adf\mlu any other versions. F16a is on pair with mig29 since it doesn't have (or has severely decreased) AoA limiter on high speeds. This is stupendous, but that's what I learned flying both A and ADF. While ADF is just a platform for missiles, A rocks the shit out of it's opponents.

i just watched a video of you breathing and now i cant unhear you inhaling

rewatching this and remembering the times where gaijin didnt shit on toptier russian air (bring back the old mig29 please)

wart hunder

It’s incredible how inaccurate these flight models are. Like full on ace combat shit

when you face an enemy with better turn and rate than you you either have the balls to put a good fight or have the balls to put a good fight and still being called a moron for "dogfighting on a less maneuverable plane"

The Viper, and Tomcat too, should out-rate the MiG-29 substantially. And F-14Bs and F-16Cs (when they inevitably arrive) should absolutely goof on a MiG-29 in a rate fight. The 29 is more on par with an F-15 in terms of its rate fighting ability and pulling the nose around. In BVR they are quite similar save for the F-14 and its AIM-54A and C variant (which should be better at hitting a small maneuvering target like a MiG-29 or MiG-21 for that matter). With mouse and keyboard controls its hard to realize this because anyone can just move their mouse to point the nose wherever.

I mostly play the F-16 and the vast majority of my deaths to MiG-29's is the first turn. They just pull insane G's and turn twice as fast when merging at high speed. MiG 29 really is just better in almost every way, and way easier to dogfight with, the F-16 only wins if less fuel and played exactly correct.

related to this video, did you watch the 4v4 air to air tournament last weekend? what did you think about everyone picking the mig29? obviously it was for the ER/HMD combo, but there was that team with the two f16s.

As per Russian planes go, the MIG-29 has always been my favorite. Nice video 😀

I love how this is right after the seeks dcs comments vid

Nah I'll just wait for the F-15 (never liked that cheap-ish looking Falcon anyway).

The F16 Block 10s will run rings around Mig 29s since they're lighter and can hit 11Gs

We need to see this content more often

Sooooo learn how to offset the circle and youre fine in the MiG-29 :)

As a f-16AJ player. Dogfighting mig 29 is a piece of cake. As long as no one intervenes

That would be awesome seeing you doing this with more high-top tier vehicles. I’d love to see the mirage 2000, the f14 and the gripen (when it comes out) fighting those 2 as well