@fucku weebsnfuries Lol well atleast you are true to your name. Not really sure why the hate but then again there is just a lot of "hate" for anime or weebs on the internet in general. Yet I don't really get the explicity sharing the hate. XD Have a good day.
@@davidirvine7238 it's really amazing what rare kind of disease those who defy eshin tend to suffer. A disease where all the iron in your blood spontaneously solidifies in your back in the shape of a dagger. It appears to have a really high mortality rate as well.
@@Olav_Hansen meh, just another coincidence. I wouldn't blow a conspiracy theory out of that if I were you cause, you know, there are fates far worse than just a simple dagger in your spleen covered with neurotoxin.
Going full range for most factions gets the job done. Full archers for HE, Empire, Bretonnia, WE, DE, Skaven (skavenslaves), Dwarfs, Vampire Coast, Greenskins and so. Lizardmen and Norsca are the exception, since their early ranged units have a very low ammo count that you won't get much value out of them
Well legend primarily used his ally as cannon fodder. Also, he only helped his ally for his own gain. All in all a 7.5/10 in terms of how skaven it was. Would skaven again.
There are a few points as to why this kind of army is really strong with Eshin/Snikch: Night/Gutter Runners all get armor piercing missiles (Eshin Exclusive). Snikch gives his army Strider, more move speed, and all Night/Gutter Runners the Concealment Bombs ability for Stalk/Unspottable (Snikch Exclusive). Snikch can also use "From the Shadows" which is an AoE ability that grants Snipe, Stalk, and Unspottable. Night/Gutter Runners naturally stalk and have Snare Nets. Everyone but the Engineers have Vanguard deployment. Eshin Sorcerer can be used to conceal the Engineers or groups of units to be Unspottable, which means they only get revealed at essentially melee range. Eshin Sorcerer also has Toxic Rain when he casts which poisons all enemies on the map and Veil of Shadows/Black Whirlwind. Veil of Shadows allows Snikch to effortlessly assassinate single entity units while pushing the chaff away, slowing them down, and giving a leadership debuff (It's much stronger and more reliable than Verminous Valor). Snikch can use his ability to root a Hero/Lord. Also prevents any of your units from being bogged down/caught. Black Whirlwind is just a strong damage dealing vortex spell. Artillery can do nothing because you can use Concealment Bombs and have your units right on top of artillery. You can kite any of their units. Cavalry will be slowed too much to catch any of your units and shot to hell. Sieges are easy because the enemy can't shoot what they can't see. Because you're Snikch/Skaven, you can easily ambush enemy after enemy and obliterate them so you are always fighting advantageous fights with an army well suited for such fights. It's one of those armies where you may not be able to fight 4 armies at once, but you don't need to. Unless you completely screw up, you can just pick apart army after army with fights that last at most 1-2 minutes and your units take little to no damage. You can do something similar with units like Waystalkers. It's like there should be different categories for doomstacks. This is more like a "blitz" doomstack that strikes extremely hard and fast, wiping out the opponent before they can have the time to do anything like use lots of magic, sidebar abilities, or mobilize & react.
This is basically the Clan Eshin doomstack in the same way that Brood Horros are for Moulder because Eshin gets armor piercing missiles on all Night Runners and Gutter Runners. Can also throw in a couple Death Runners if you want some melee presence but otherwise using Plague Priests for that always works too. But yes something like this is what I'd generally recommend for Eshin, but for other Skaven factions it's not gonna be quite as good since you'll lose the AP bonus as that is faction-specific to Eshin. The only real problem with this army is that it doesn't deal too well with walls in siege battles
I really enjoyed using gutter runners even as clan skyre because in emergency situations you can recruit 5-10 gutter runners in a single turn where as all the weapons team units are 2 turn recruitment. They are able to wear down advancing armies over multiple turns quite easily.
ya walls are pointless to them as they just run over the unguarded portions of the walls and net melee units and camp their own walls to kill their monstrous and cav units. more annoying for sure but siege battles will be like 5 mins long instead of 15+
Actually stalk is the most op thing for taking cities as you can put a visible unit on 1 side the AI puts all his army on that side then just use an assassin to run into the capture point and they run circles around 1 the point defending unit until timer runs out. EZPZ
Rating doomstacks should be done like this- Attainability- how hard to attain is this d-stack? 1 for can't attain without a 200 turn investment, 10 for early campaign wrecking ball. Effectiveness- how well this d-stack does in battle. 1 for doesn't win, 2 for wins barely, and 10 for doesn't take any damage Noob friendliness- how easy is it to win with this d-stack on V.Hard. 1 for needing to be legend to win with it, and 10 for A monkey could do it Cost- not a super important category, most d-stacks will be expensive just because, but still one that should be respected. 1 for breaking the bank, and 10 for cheap as hell Versatility- would it be bad in sieges? Would it be bad against a bunch of cavalry? Would it be bad against anything the AI does? 1 for only good against one thing, 10 for good against everything. That's 5 comprehensive categories, usable for any doomstack, and can stop getting us 7 or 9 for EVERY DOOMSTACK. Seriously legend, go back and watch a few. I've just started calling the 7s bad stacks, and the 9s good stacks. Aside from the Knights of Tor Gaval (10), and the Gyrobomber (5) stacks.
@@DukeChameleon The more I watch, the more I'm sure that it's just opinion, and the rating means absolutely nothing. Which is stupid, if you're going to rate anything, it shouldn't just be "How much do I personally like it?" But as much as I love legend for his game-play, he isn't very precise or calculating. He does pretty much everything off the top of his head.
@@nikitclaw4770 ah, but did he earn it? i don't think so. I don't really like throts voice acting. like it's good and all but it's no ikit claw. also seeing as throts actor already did a skaven it is probably a good idea to have someone else do the next one for a different sounding voice. you're probably just a troll so enjoy the feeding but i figured i would explain my thoughts on the comment.
This army is actually really good in sieges, you just have to set up for it a little. Breach the wall ahead of time (via heroes), and put your visible units on the other side to the breach. The stealthy troops flood in through the breach unseen and beeline to the capture point. The AI will then start moving back to the capture point and you can absolutely demolish them as they frantically run in to the capture point in staggered fashion. It feels really fun because you use sneak-stealth tactics to capture the city, very Eshin.
Irl slings can pierce most armours. A decent sling can achieve speeds close to breaking the sound barrier and and only a few fractions under of subsonic ballistic ammunition in terms of terminal ballistics. There have been reports of sling rounds piercing multiple targets.
I don’t think this army would struggle with sieges. Set up the visible units on one side of the map. Everyone else can stalk on the far side of the map and scale these walls before the enemy knows they’re already inside the city
Imrik's campaign has taught me to fear the gutter runners. Their damage and kiting potential is not to be understimated... Else you'll end up with a dead drake sooner than later.
When Pestilens plague-scheme goes wrong and grand council give command-order for all tails to avoid each other you must obey yes-yes. Practice good tail-distance from one another to prevent infection and ensure paws are clean-tidy when working in warpstone mines
I made a similar stack in my first ever eshin campaign, just thought it was thematic and also pretty powerful, and also pretty fun, since it was more than just cornercamping a checkerboard
Sometimes I just don't think you give skills/units a chance before dismissing them outright and then not getting why people are using them. The Eshin Sorc adds shitloads more to this stack than a Plague Priest ever could. Eshin Sorc's are surprisingly tanky for a caster, often outlasting Assassins and Snikch himself in melee. Toxic Rain reduces enemy damage output by 10% and gives a -12% speed debuff. It also stacks with the Poison from Gutter Runners, for an additional damage debuff and -24% speed. A properly positioned Sorc can shred enemy units with Warp Stars. More importantly, it has one of, if not the, lowest mana costs in the game and has a very low cooldown, meaning you can spam it all battle and keep Toxic Rain up at all times. Veil of Shadows does no damage to friendly troops. Overcast it for -48% speed (which equates to -60% with Toxic Rain) and -8 Leadership. Even if cavalry does catch up, they won't be a problem for long. Skitterleap adds +24% speed on top of Stalk. Brittle Bone has -9% vigour on top of -24% speed. The -40 melee defence will come in handy should you run out of ammo. Combined with Howling Warpgate from the Engineers, and the Gutter Runner's net, proper use of the Eshin Sorc means that there's almost nothing that can outrun these Gutter Runners. A Plague Priest would be useful for another Arcane Conduit but there's no need for summons to slow things down when you have this many speed debuffs coming from the Eshin Sorc. Don't forget that Slingers can fire whilst moving but only in one direction. You want the enemy chasing your regular Gutter Runners while the Slingers chase them for a ranged hammer & anvil. Mixing the two together in one formation halves your damage output.
I've used a similar stack before, the poison debuff is amazing for kiting heavy hitting cavalry, I didn't use slingers just a standard poison gutter runner stack with the 2 warlock units and snikch. You hand in a lot of range because of it but I personally prefer the kiting of enemy units. The army struggles a lot with enormous numbers. Once you start encountering multiple armies with lots of infantry and big healthpool monsters they don't kill fast enough to deal with all of the units and can get overwhelmed. I would say that it can absolutely annihilate lesser numbers, but as soon as the numbers go up it starts to struggle a bit more. All in all a very fun stack with amazing killing capability
I think the notifications should appear on the unit cards themselves, that way the commander (us) has an unobstructed view of the battlefield while still receiving relevant information.
Yeah my doomstack yesyes, the reason behind the eshin magic is because it also debuffs enemy speed on passive, and the gutter runners have the net that reduce the enemy speed too, i did struggle against large armyes of cav with bretonia for a while until my heroes lvl up enouth, after that it was all just more food 🐀🐀🐀
@@OctagonCookies is the only way to keep them from a very pointy death on the hand of shock cav, silver helms were a problem too but the rats could beat light cav in meele
"I can't express how much I hate these notifications" Couldn't agree with you more. Nothing like trying to use an army ability from the bottom right and you can't click it because it zooms you to that unit rallying in the corner instead.
Adding armor piercing turned these okay units into excellent ones. I wish CA would do that more for other DLC lords. Buff up a low/mid tier unit via faction trait or lord skill. Sisters of Twilight does now too so hopefully they'll keep it up for future content.
When I last played as Clan Eshin and used a similar set up, I ended up with Snikch having quite a few night runners and non-poison gutter runners from earlier in the campaign just because they weren't taking casualties and I couldn't justify disbanding them. What you can also do to conserve ammo is just have a bunch of them all at once attack a weakened unit in melee preferably from multiple directions. Fast flying units typically don't work that well against this type of army. High entity count flyers take damage on approach and then just lose in melee shortly after. Lower entity count flying units also don't work because the gutter runner entities in each unit are spread out and when used correctly there are at least two other gutter runners near by to attack the flying unit while the you pull out the one being attacked. The real weaknesses of this army are Shadow warriors, and maybe goblin spam. It also has too many slingers. 1 to 3 is a better ratio of slingers to non-slingers.
In sieges, I don't know if it happened to other people as well, but playing as Skryre, I gave Snikch 18 assassins and 1 Eshin sorcerer. I besieged Karak Kadrin with Karaz a Karak in it, and they just put all their forces in a side of the map, leaving the town square completely undefended. So I just had to destroy the gates and make my way to the town square, and I won the battle without inflicting any damage at all. I think the AI deployed that way because it couldn't see any of my units and therefore panicked because it did the same thing a few times, always with dwarfs though. So I guess you can just take out the 2 warlock engineers for sieges and cheese your way out to victory
Overcasting the eshin base sorcery damage spell, the knife throw or w/e, gets a LOT of kills if you position your sorc to shoot into packs of enemies. It's actually very good. i group things around sniktch and then just spam cast it. Sorcs come out with 200-300 kills a lot of times.
It also has a negligible mana cost allowing you to spam it all fight and keep Toxic Rain (which stacks with other effects) going forever. They're surprisingly tanky for casters, too.
Plague priests are a lot harder to recruit for Clan Enshin compared to their sorcerers (which they just get from their Gutter runner building). Getting Plague Priests is big investment and you don't need them that much. Pretty much your whole army can stalk, casters included. And Their lore of magic isn't bad either. Sure not the best out there but it deals armour piercing damage and it's quite versatile.
Acutally it is not, just divide them in half and let them skirmish away in 2 big groups you need much less croud control, but weapons teams deal much more damage and faster but are fragile if touched, while this guys can hold on in meele
@@lordmaur180 As a man who has already tried this I can tell you its not as easy as hitting the skirmish button, especially since it doesn't work half the time 😅. The micro required is pretty intense at times against larger armies and cavalry in general, especially if you don't have the warlock engineers leveled up to the point that they increase ammo and speed. Saying they can hold in melee is also a bit far from the truth unless your up against t1 & t2 units.
@@Shero1337 indeed, is a little annoyng to get going with this army and AI legendary difficulty buffs are just too unfair for the meele stats... but at least they dont dissolve as fast as skavenslaves ...not that this count for much though...
8:40 I personally really like the notifications. Sometimes a unit gets lost in the wilderness, getting shot by random archers. I really like to get notifications when it's about to crumble.
Having just started a Clan Eshin campaign, what I really like about this Doomstack is that you can start putting it together so damn quickly. Big advantage over just about every other Doomstack I've seen.
I don't think speed would almost ever be an issue for this stack, since the poison debuff and the net debuff would slow down even the fastest enemies to less than 80
Eschin magic serves one purpose, to have a mage that stalks with an ok vortex spell, which can be useful in n stealth-themed armies or sieges because Skaven can't fly ( excluding Ikit's rocket boots)
I want for my birthday new video about skavens by Tariff, with Legend`s inner skaven as voice actor. I believe, we all want. Could be greatest WH meme.
Gonna have to disagree legend, those notifications have saved my bacon more than once. Knowing that your unit is about to eat shit cause they got spotted by a cav unit vanguard deployed behind has been monumental
I did play the Eshin campaign and used Gutter Runners as well. They do so much dmg while being basically untouchable with their speed. Obviously this doesn't work on every army and every skaven faction but... with all buffs Snikch offers, yeah, they feel very strong.
That is awesome to think that is the only goal but also love that the other skaven lord only wanted to eat the fairy lady. Huge war just to satisfy his hunger lol
Who would win? A marauding army of Dark Elves who have trained for centuries to execute their enemies in the most inhumane ways possible _Or_ Some cosplaying rats with literal slings and poisoned rocks
The Doom Stack is interesting, sadly only works under Snitch since no other Skaven LL gets those troops the AP. About the notification, i like them but agree they should NPT interfere with UI.
Slingers IRL were the closest thing to firearms. Slinging rocks and some cases lead or brass balls at insane speeds, sometimes breaking through the toughest of shields like the Roman scutum shield. I dont think TW games do them much justice anymore.
“Brother. Remember our father, he was a great gutter runner rat. He fought bravely under the legend lord Snitch. Until the day their armies fought against a faction name Britannia. The grass above him is about one rat tall now.... ”
Well yes, but actually no. They oitrun heavy cavalry, the only thing catching them is mounted yeomen, but gutter runners have no problem just shooting all the mounted yeomen on the approach and then just kiting all the heavy cav
@@1rb1s_ But once the cavalry all charge at once, they just can not shot everyone down for sure. They have significant damage, but they didn't have enough time to deal those damage before they charged on his face. Once they start running away it is even harder for people to control them, there is no way they can beat a cavalry stack for sure. Even all heavy cavalry, all they need is just charge up take some casualties. Once rat’s formation break even they can not catch them but they can force them running at the place they want. Small circle one by one eat up everything.(real-world strategy). But for player there is no way to make minor control at that fast kind speed battle with everything happening almost same time
@@dragonball7122 The point is they are faster than cavalry, plus the poison makes it so they can run literal circles around any cavalry that poses a threat in melee. That plus most heavy cavalry are going to be practically stationary compared with them, and the gutter runners have armor piercing, and even a stack of monstrous cavalry would struggle with this, as they have smaller healthpools than most units, so they would die excruciatingly quickly. And to top it all off, the gutter runners would still perform way above cost against the cavalry stack, and you could probably afford 2-3 armies of them for every cavalry army. In general the gutter runner stack with clan Eshin is OP, and doesnt have a fatal weakness
@@noahhaller4540 bruh.... are you really think player can beat AI with number and Army in Legendary difficulty? Also, I have made my point. You have no way to control your rat stack fight with cavalry while everything get mess. Just try it in customer battle. You will see what I mean.
@@dragonball7122 literally just put them all on skirmish mode, and you’d still beat them. I have no idea where these delusions of yours that cavalry are supremely strong against units that are 30 speed faster
due to stealth and nets it might be better than you would think on siges as the stealth will allow you to enter a town unmolested and net melee units while you camp their walls.
this army should be: assassin lord, 2 engeneers (1 assassin hero for scouting and replenishment if needed), 17 gutter runners, such army 1v1 can kill everything and cost 3500 if all unkeep reduction are applyed. For siege purposes, single lord should follow this army, land a siege with main army in ambushe stance, autoresolve and city taken or just attack city, only visible units are engeneers so you can hit walls without any defence while all defenders are on other side. This is offensive army and every movement turn should end with abushe stance, when its attack expecialy with 1 to 2+ ratio it have 0 chance to win. This army is working only with Eshin, for other fraction this army do not have any dpm = no armorpiercing.
I think this would be good against any infantry heavy or single large monster based factions. (so dwarves, lizardmen, norsca, chaos) Even against moderate amount of cavalry as they can outrun most heavy cavarly. Altough against heavy missiles or artillery they would struggle, especially without strong attack magic.
I think this will work only against slow races. They might be fast, but their low range will keep them close to danger therefore they should loose points in how easy it is to use and not great in a lot of situations. HE have long range archers that will probably kill a lot of rats by the time they get in range, also fast monsters. Empire has fast units that can protect their artillery fast not like dwarfs, so getting rid of hellstorms can take more time, so a lot of rats will die. On the other hand this would be great vs chaos and greenskins and dwarfs who don't spam artillery too much.
Literally one of the most toxic cheese armies in ranked multiplayer. All gutters runners with poison and fill in ones without. It will kill every single army anyone throws at you
I'm very please to know that you also hate the battle notifications. For a bit I figured I was alone in that regard, especially after having arguments with my friend that I play the game with. The notifications are too obtrusive to get beneficial information out of them. I can tell when an ally rallies by looking at the units bar. I am constantly looking there, at the stats of my units, their positioning, etc., so I can tell when a unit flees or rallies. The notifications should at the very least be toggle-able so that if some people still need the notifications, it won't intrude on those who do not.
This battle really plays to the stacks strength. Few enemy cav, allies to distract the enemy while you shred them, large map... I tried this against a grimgor waag and it was shit.
57 seconds in and i was thinking of doing this doom stack in the past cause their clan gets special gutter runners do ap i think or something like that. So hoping this goes good cause eshin is such a fun faction to play as.
Not disappointed by this video, they did really good, also you completely annihlated single units so quick with those. And does eshin get a discount to their upkeep for them? If so I think their better then weapon teams if your eshin.
I get where you're coming from with the UI notifications, but some people find them useful. CA would absolutely be wise to give the option to disable them.
The biggest advantage is for the absolute noob. Just spread em all over, don't worry about forgetting to micro because they will just autoskirmish while they keep shooting their pursuers. I was really struggling until I ran into this easy mode cheese, and it just made the entire game feel absolutely zero effort from there on.
I think this stack would struggle with artillery spam. They have stalk, but after getting spotted hellstorm batteries for example would wipe the floor with them.
They'd be better than a weapons team army for that? This army is mobile enough that artillery shouldnt be that big of a concern. If they were slow like chaos warriors, that'd be different, but these guys are fast enough they could probably close distance and kill the arty before it can shoot more than 3 or 4 times
@@andrewsmith6776 Possibly, but then you would probably have to worry about getting bound in melee by cavalry and the likes. Weapons teams have more armour and less units than slingers, which makes them a bit more resilient to artillery. Also, since you can run plageclaw catapults and plague priests to tank, artillery mostly isn't a problem for them.
No. On the contrary, mobile stalk armies are very safe from artillery. The batteries will just keep firing at your engineers who can't stalk, doing nothing. If anyone comes close to spot the runners, they're getting a mouthful of shurikens in a matter of seconds. Their loose formation and speed are good at evading rockets too.
I would argue it's a good alternative alongside the weapons team doomstack, depending on the situation you're coming up against. I agree sieges might not be the strong point, and I would probably replace the Eshin Sorcerer with a Plage Priest for some more distractions, ehm, Clan Rats. Both are quite easy to recruit, with this one being a bit easier I think, but both are definitely easier than the hero based ones. So I like this one, and I think I got to play more Skaven, yes-yes.
What I don't understand is why this option is not in WH2? ^^' I don't mind them, I even find them useful sometimes as I always forget my routing units, but it should be posssible to turn them off for other players ^^
