I have a few friends who are LGBT+ filmmakers. As with most filmmakers, their scripts are often genre films (mostly comedy) with self-insert characters, which means their stories feature queer characters. However, in the process of getting their film funded, investors and distributors almost always tell them to "tone down the gayness" to broaden the film's appeal. Queer-baiting reinforces the bigoted notion that "you are free be queer, as long as I don't see you being queer". However, it is sadly also a really accurate reflection of reality.
i'll say it once and i'll say it time and time again - censorship kills art. you can't expect someone to be able to express themselves creatively if the medium actively suppresses them from doing so just to make bigots happier.
It's simple, because often times when I watch a film or play a game that has a clear political agenda or ideology behind it, it often ruins the storyline just to pander to the LGBTQ community. A good example would be The Last of Us. The first had such great character development, the story was pretty simple and straightforward, game play was decent not ground breaking, what engaged most of the players was the interaction and character development between the 2 main characters. However, in The Last of Us 2, suddenly there's asians everywhere, bi, gay, lesbian, trans. Every character was either a LGBTQ or a minority. It took away from the immersion of the story, why's a zombie game about 2 broken souls finding solace in each other's company suddenly filled with every single person of the spectrum? Of course, it had to be released in pride month and people that complaint about it were labeled 'transphobia' or 'homophobia'. I remember they even made a pregnant woman go on zombie patrol because it's 'empowering'. Shit like that is why stories should never be inclusive for the sake of being inclusive.
I’m Asian and was the first person to come out in my white friend group. I was so happy because i thought the online community of queer people was my community. A year later, my white friend came out. She was the one who was “the gay friend” who people would go to for Lgbtq issues. We are both femme, as well. That was when i realised they had never referred to my queerness. I was always “the Asian friend” to them. My style (very similar to my white friend) isn’t “gay femme” it’s “anime girl” when i wear it. Despite me stating I’m lesbian, they would always say “I can picture you with a quiet Korean guy”. This is the same with an Asian classmate who is gender-fluid but no one ever uses their other pronouns, however they always respect other genderqueer white people’s pronouns. This is when i started distancing myself from the lgbtq community and gravitating towards the Asian community. Let people of colour be queer.
I've always felt disconnected from the LGBT community despite being queer myself and never knew why. This video, and everyones comments on it, opened my eyes so much to problems that always made me uncomfortable in a way that I never knew how to express. It seems like if you don't fit in the perfect little box then your identity is constantly questioned by people within the very community claiming to be so open and accepting, and it's heartbreaking to hear that the problem is more widespread and complex than I realized. I'm sorry to hear that you've experienced this exclusion yourself. I hope you know that however you identify is valid and that you're worth more than how others choose to see you.
I'm really sorry about that I hope that you found/find better friends or that they started to respect you. I hate how the LGBTQ+ community is dominated by white people, it feels like us POC aren't even apart of the community. They get mad at things we do to represent ourselves when they're the ones who are accepted more. For example: Theres a lesbian flag made for specifcially South Asian + Black people and they got pissed at that because we're "trying to divide the community" as if our own community doesn't act like we're apart of it, it's really sad and people fail to realize it :( And again, im really sorry about your "friends".
You need some new friends right now. That's so weird that people can't respect you. The lgbtq lacks representation of black people and poc and this really just proves it.
At this point, I want to see them all band together and remake the whole movie. If Disney doesn't want that we can just fight them or something. I may not be asian, let alone southeast asian but I would back that fight; I LOVE learning so much about these cultures and I would love to see them properly represented in a movie.
I'd like to add that in Singapore, trans students can't be called their chose name even if the teachers want to. They supposedly can only use your government name, yet they can use nicknames for cis students as they please, or chosen names (eg. calling a student Rachel when their legal name is Xiao Ling)
@@Gonzas97 Of course they're not. Nicknames are something "normal" kids can have, because they're not going to use them to exploit a loophole to be treated as a gender that isn't on their birth certificate.
Encanto turned out to be a pop culture phenomenon while Raya was forgotten, beaten down, and torn to shreds. Which sucks because this could’ve been up there with Lilo & Stitch, Beauty and the Beast, or Wreck it Ralph, but between crunch, poor choices, and the movie being too short, it ended up in a downfall. SEA representation is already rare in western media, but the fact that it is one of the few glimpses (albeit one-dimensional) of it from a studio like Disney, only for it to fail, really hurts to see. If there was more runtime or the message of the movie wasn’t as stupid and harmful as it is, maybe it would not be that bad.
After reading & watching several Raya reviews, I really think it would have been more successful as a TV series than as a movie. Because the creators did such an extraordinary job making an extremely fleshed-out world/setting. Which tragically could not be explored more due to the restrictions of a movie run-time
Encanto has good music (not so much singing) thanks to Lin Manuel Miranda, composer of Hamilton; it focuses on just one country and it does so visibly and accordingly; it doesn't fail its message, and it focuses on just one language that is actually one if the mist widespread languages, with communities that, even if somehow they hate each other, by sharing certain vibes and attitude in their cultures they feel sort of touched too. Not to mention every Spanish speaker thrives on thrashing ppl from the USA when they start saying "bet its tu guait". I am Spanish, not even Latin American, and I had a lot if fun watching it and seeing hispanic names, words and mannerisms on screen. But what does Raya have of that aside from aesthetics? Surely not the music, just an occasional cameo of a word out of a language they never tell you about, and most of the team isn't even from the region represented. In encanto representation was done very good. They even stood aside from the stereotype that all Latin Americans are dark by putting in pale characters. As a hispanic person and Spanish speaker, it honestly is not the best film, but it does really good at what is supposed to, give you the hispanic vibes
This is the reason, I think this would perhaps work better as TV series. a movie, esp General Audiences/Family/Kids movie can only be so long. I think the reason why stories like Beauty and the Beast or Lilo and Stich WORK as movies is bc when you look at them they're simple, there isn't too much history/lore to them. They take place in one, maybe two locations and show us only certain number of characters, and never try to build them up to more than they are shown to be. Lilo and Stich takes place in a Hawaii town, and follows two sisters and a small alien and it's about family. Beauty and the Beast is about looking past appearances and learning to love another, and mainly takes place in Beast's caslte with few scenes in a small town, mostly to establish some things or to push some plot forward. The backstories are simple too. Beast doesn't need anymore than "he was a vain asshole, and got punished for it". Characters are rather simple too. I mean Gaston doesn't need more than "he's a popular jerk"(I mean disney did try to give him backstory and do the more complex thing in LA movie, but it didn't work out). The staff at the castle are just a flirty french footman, a pompous butler, a kind housekeeper and excitnble kid. They don't need anything more either. If you have so much story and worldbuilding and characters and a story that is a bit more on High Fantasy Epic side, then TV series has better format for it. and true, LOTR is High Fantasy and takes place in several different locations but a) it's a trilogy so more than one movie and b) target audience is different. It's not a movie aimed at kids, so the running time is longer and allows for more to be showed. Raya IMO just had too many ideas and a too little time and wrong format. and ofc the undercooked message. which I think TV series, and having more time and focus could help as well. I don't blame the writers so much as I blame the corporate execs who made the decision to make it into a movie...
honestly i think raya should've gone the same route as encanto and just picked ONE country (and ideally a specific region of the country) as its setting. encanto's world would've been a mess if they tried to make it the South American Movie like they did with raya. even if raya didn't just want to pick one country, they should have at least picked one each for each of the five kingdoms instead of making every kingdom a mishmash of a bunch of real world cultures. atla did a mishmash too, but they kind of seemed to actually know what they were doing because it doesn't seem like they put everything into a blender like raya did. plus, if they actually wanted to develop that story, i think it would have worked better as a limited series on disney+, something like wandavision or something with 5-6 hours of runtime and smaller segments. and then they're giving themselves the time to actually develop the relationships between the characters and the themes. the only thing i was feeling throughout most of the third act was just anger at the idea that raya should be the one to forgive namaari even though namaari has done absolutely nothing to gain her trust so far in the story. i've seen another commenters mention catra and adora from she-ra and even though i don't personally love that ship, i think it's a good example of friends to enemies to lovers because catra actually has to win adora's trust back after losing it. namaari just gets handed raya's trust on a platter because like, the 10th time is the charm? it kind of feels like the writers were either incompetent or sabotaged the project on purpose
As a queer SEAn (Filipino) living in SEA, I don't even know a lot about our pre-colonial history, and even less about our neighbors. So thank you Xiran and your amazing team for creating this. Also, I loved learning about how there were (and are) queer spiritual mediums/leaders in other pre-colonial SEAn countries too. I've read in our history readings before about the "Bayoguins" here in the Philippines who were queer spiritual leaders and mediums too but there were no further information, so I'd like to imagine that they had similarities with what was discussed. Another one also, in the same readings, "masculinity" was also very different. The "Datu" or the chief were described as the most beautiful among the men of the tribe, as they're also having the most beautiful long hair meticulously taken care of with oils.
Not just because it's cute as heck, but also is written like an age appropriate romance over the whole series and allowed to actually be rather than having to be coy for four seasons.
gravity falls had one but the creator had to fight tooth and nail for them to exist. so out of spite he kept making them interact with explicit homosexual undertones just to exhaust executives. honestly i respect that he didn't and still doesn't take their bullshit of pretending to care about the lgbtq+ community when it's progressive at the time (i.e. pride month)
Makes me wish we got the gay pairings in Gargoyles. The guy in charge of the show wanted Lexington to date one of the UK Gargoyle guys but of course got shot down because it was the 90s as well as being disney.
Also not toxic because all Namaari really learned in the movie is she can be a shit person and can expect to be forgiven with no apology. Fuck I hate this movie.
As a bugineese person who contributed on this discord, I want to address a key difference of our (eastern, south sulawesi specific) view of the LGBTQ culture that's probably will be hard for us to accept/understand due to our westernized views regarding LGBTQ relationship. In the bugineese culture, the trans-people can only be romantically and sexually related to another cis-people, or the trans-people that are their opposite biological-sex. so, for example, a trans-woman can have a relationship with a cis-woman, or a trans-man. I don't really dig dive into the details here but I think it's for the generational/legacy continuation of the tribe, and for sexual activity to be able to be performed since anal sex is frowned upon, and reproduction is highly encouraged.
Yep, that's also why the terms "trans woman" and "trans man" don't fully capture the meaning of calabai and calalai. It's better to think of them as separate gender identities filling specific gender roles. A calabai rarely wants to be considered as a makkunrai ("cis woman") and undergoes full transition, they usually just want to be known as a calabai. Likewise with calalai and oroane ("cis man"). Also, the traditional Buginese system doesn't actually acknowledge same-sex relationship. A makkunrai/makkunrai or makkunrai/calalai relationship (AFAB on both sides) would be regarded as weird, but oroane/calalai, makkunrai/calabai, calabai/calalai wouldn't.
An underlying problem with all this is that Disney needs to stop being seen as a potential vehicle for queer identities, much less with BIPOC LGBTQ+ representation. It's an American company that primarily caters to American, Western, and Westernized audiences and it already barely pays any attention to white gay men in their own material -- as a white gay man I don't expect Disney to ever give us, the vanilla LGBTQ+ Western experience, easily the most privileged and visible segment, the time of day. It's all subtext, minor characters, or queer-baiting. While it is genuinely great that you have cultures being represented more authentically in movies like Encanto, Coco, and Luka, it's still ultimately a cash-grab and not part of any agenda to diversify and inclusify pop media for voices and perspectives that need a wider platform. Anyone who's watched the past two parts to this video knows it crash and burned with Raya from the start. What we really need is to amplify BIPOC and LGBTQ+ voices. What I love about this specific video is that it demonstrates how Indonesia, Vietnam, Singapore, and other SEA nations have thriving music and cinema scenes that give visible presence to queer people and communities. LGBTQ+ rights isn't unique to the West. LQBTQ+ culture isn't just a subset of Western culture. It's a universal thing that takes on unique aspects and nuances within different cultures, and that should be celebrated and highlighted, especially in areas where its' particularly repressive.
Totally agree that Disney shouldn't be given so much importance - but it's so hard when they are the only ones making widely watched movies about different cultures.
I say and repeat: BEING BLACK/GAY/FEMALE IS NOT A PERSONALITY TRAIT. But these producers and writers still insist on the character being only that and making crap of a plot. Calling movies like Encanto, Moana and Coco a cash-grab is doing a disservice to the whole culture themselves. They are not only original franchise but they consistently put the culture and parts of the people to make the whole world interested on them. Just because the movie did well does not mean it's a cash-grab. ALL MOVIES NEED TO MAKE MONEY, but cash-grab are movies that DON'T MAKE AN EFFORD TO PRODUCE THE ART. I just wish that these writers put some perspective and made GOOD characters of diversity. Like Rosa from Brooklin, or Xena, Lara croft, Rippler and many other that came before where being a protagonist had to have an actual good character.
A gay man name Howard Ashman singlehandedly brought on the Disney Renneisance and breathed new life into the dying studio and EVERY animated musical since 1989 and now is modeled after his format he invented from his lifelong love of Broadway and if it weren't for him Disney would be solely Touchstone Pictures and Disneyland would have fallen into disrepair and bought out by WB, Disney owes EVERYTHING to him, a gay man with a vision they could not fathom in their small minded straight male brains of toxic masculinity, never forget that, never forget it was a gay man who made the modern Disney format we know and so love today, Howard did that, not Walt, for Walt was long dead. What I want as a queer woman is diversity behind the scenes given the opportunity for their vision to be seen and being able to be storytellers in control of the narrative and getting full credit of their work without having to have a straight white man by their side holding all the cards and accolades.
Now having reached nearly six hours of Raya discussion, all I can say it that...this is so wonderful! I wasn't expecting to run through so many emotions from an extended movie review!!! 😭I'm glad I found the time to even glance at some of the depths of Southeast Asian culture this week. Thank you Xiran for assembling all these wonderful people!
That style of queer coding more than white focused I'd say is more specifically american. I may be white but the only reason why I'm familiar with some of that is because I've seen it in foreign movies, and didn't even realize it was meant to show them as queer most of the times.
Great video. I've learned so much about SEA culture from this series. As far as queerbaiting goes, I guess I'm just used to it. I'm a gay trans man, and whenever I say queer coding or blatant stereotypes I just sigh and move on. Which itself is bad, I know. I've just gotten so used to being misrepresented, often in ways that perpetuate harmful stereotypes, that I'm just tired and never expect any better.
42:10 I'm Jamaican and I remember learning in school that sexual relationships between men were illegal and ppl could be imprisoned for it :( Cause culture here is still very homophobic I doubt it'll be repealed any time soon
I'm an Indonesian lesbian and this presentation means a lot to me. I have to admit that I'm not that in-touch with my own traditional culture due to growing up in a multicultural family. I've never felt belong in any specific ethnic group, and this feeling was later heightened after i came out as queer. I thought I would never feel belong anywhere. I discover so many new things from this presentation. The "their ancestors would welcome them with an embrace" statement gives me so much joy. (also I can't even count how many times i see people outside SEA say stuff like "how can you be queer in Indo" as if queer people don't exist here just because of the current queerphobic social climate--) I'm a creative myself (a writer mostly) and this encourages me to write my coming of age novel without erasing the queerness in it. Though I'm not sure how it can ever get published, I feel like "watering down" my characters' queerness would be such a diservice to myself and Indonesian queer youth.
OHH YESS I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! Also, thank you so much for all my fellow southeast-asians involved in this project, sending so much love to all of you!!
This video is so well made that it made me rethink a lot about my own queer (Colombian) culture and how its portrayed (or lack there of) in media, even the local one. It also made me wonder a lot of how the white queer representation of Encanto has been flown around in social media. Not going deep about that in here but this video made me want to start a project about my own experiences as a Colombian LGBTQ+ person! so thank u so much for sharing your own queer experiences as SEAs, they help more people than you think! And thank u xiran for using the platform to lift these voices!
I really liked this video and I really related towards the "being queer but for western standards." I am Italian, so i am like... "white and western", but I too felt like "queer representation" given from USA/WASP american movies and stuff like that... not hitting home. That until I read a few comics made by italian authors and then it felt really the "yes this book is made for people like me". Being bombed by the "correct version of being queer" that corresponds the western/white/american way hurts even the other "white cultures".
The whole discourse is super U.S. Anglo-centric tbh. I feel, as a fellow Latin (hi from Central America!!!) that it's kind of hypocritical to complain about lack of specificity in representation (with which I can sympathize and is fully justified) and then turn around and paint with a big fat brush all of the Western World. Like. Dude. We've to acknowledge there's a whole ass world out there. ALL OF US.
The idea of intersectionality between queerness and cultural reclamation really resonated with me. What is the fight for queer rights if not a fight to live as your truest self?
@jesncin your art is absolutely beautiful and so is Nadhir Nor's! I hope you keep creating more gorgeous illustrations and I hope your work can reach the mainstream someday.
I want to add some more information about Đạo Mẫu, as I am living in Vietnam. In the presentation, it says Đạo Mẫu is established around 16th century, but from the folklore, the fairy tale passed down verbally from generation to generation, it may exist long before the era of Vietnam under Chinese rule. Also, Đạo Mẫu initially worships Goddess only, it's for celebrating the woman, the Mother, the feminine in the universe. All deities must be in the form of a woman, and there are only priestesses in the temple. Since it's folk religion, Đạo Mẫu changes and adapts to new religions, from Daoism, Buddhism to the religion practiced by the minority in Vietnam. From the 16th century onward, Đạo Mẫu may have God (male deity) but the majority is till the Goddess (Mẫu, Bà Chúa). It wasn't abandoned simply because the youngsters have no interest in it, or banned because the Communist Party forbids it (and why tho?). Rather, the decline of Đạo Mẫu in Vietnam happened during the era of Vietnam under Chinese rule where Confucianism with the patriarchy system replaced our matriarchy. And the existence of new religions such as Buddhism (in 11th century), and Christianity (in 18th century), as well as the wars, many many wars contribute a big part of Đạo Mẫu's depopulation. Despite such hardship, Đạo Mẫu stands still and is with Vietnamese, in the folklore, in the way we live, in our vocabulary. Many temples may have been abandoned, but some are big and famous enough to become a tourist destination or pilgrimage, like Chùa Bà Đen (Linh Sơn Thánh Mẫu) in Tây Ninh. So no, it isn't exactly private. And the youngsters actually have a big interest in it. We view it as Vietnam's identity, some practice the religion, others study it in cultural aspects. We're trying our best to present Đạo Mậu with art and music. You can search the music video Tứ Phủ by Hoàng Thùy Linh and you'll see. As I mentioned above, Đạo Mẫu is with Vietnamese even in the way we talk. Like the word "bóng" in Hầu Bóng, Vietnamese use it to address queer people, especially trans women. The word "bóng" can also be used as an adjective to address something extra colorful. But "bóng", after the French colonization, has become a slur and Vietnamese youngsters are trying their best to reclaim it. Though some aspects of this topic are still pretty westernized, and kinda...meager, I appreciate the works and the trying to present SEA culture behind this. Thank you, and I hope this comment helps, in some way.
(irrelevant note): if someone i met once as a kid rolled up over a decade later, dropped a cheesy villain quip, then tried to fight me, i’d be so fucking confused ?? like idek if I’d recognize the person ???
As a fellow storywriter that loves to take inspiration from other cultures I have to thank all of you for these series of videos. I've learned so so much about SEA culture, ESPECIALLY queer culture. I was always contrarian to the strictness of American-born queer culture, so seeing such a unique and old take on queerness was amazing. Thank you beautiful bastards (and I mean that in a good way) for these videos, and cheers from Brazil! 🕺
I'm not from SEA, but this video is still _extremely_ important to me, as someone from latinamerica, because it is VERY true that the general queer movement is so, so predominantly western/white for the average person.... you'd think it'd be pretty close in our case since latinamerica is pretty close geographically with USA but no. Actually no. Each country has its own culture and of course its own queer culture, but the way it's all just homogenous for the general public has always been disheartening... Seeing a vid that aknowledges that NOT all countries share the same culture and that also applies to stuff like gender expression is so refreshing and so, so needed. You all are doing God's work. Thaks a lot, truly. (Of course, I watched this till the end, and it was very informative! Thanks also to Xiran for hosting these videos. They truly are a gem)
These videos are long, but I think they're well worth the time it takes to sit through and listen to it all. I think I'm being exposed to a lot of different voices and points of view that I never even knew existed, and it makes me happy to know this is being done. Thank you all for doing this - I can only imagine the amount of work going into all of this on your ends.
This series needs to win awards. I’ve learned more here about SEO cultures than I’ve ever learned in my entire life (or if I’d ever bothered to see Raya). Brilliant research all around!
as a queer vietnamese this video really opened my eyes to how western my own view of my queerness has been, coming from a modern, post colonialism vietnam. i haven't got much education in how my ancestors in the past might have had a whole different way of expressing themselves and their queerness from western culture, and it has become an internalization that "queerness is a western ideology that spoils the purity of our culture". i almost gave in entirely to it, though i still hold on dearly to those poets and figures hiding away in the dark to be proof of my own existence since the birth of this country. this discussion is so interesting and as always, I'm blown away by you guys' dedication to the subject and research, and it really punched me in the gut to hear someone saying that my ancestors would have accepted me when the current society look down on me, thank you guys so much for another amazing video!
I was so annoyed too when people started screaming that "the VA confirmed they are gay!!!" Like, you really are content with this kind of "rep"? A VA's words??
Idk if I classify as SouthEast Asian cuz I’m Pakistani (Muslim), but I love this series! I’m biromantic ace (idk cuz I’m a -romantic if I count as queer) but like others I’ve found in the comments, I don’t want to hate anyone despite the fact I’m told to because of “Islam/Muslim”
teared up at the amount of sea queer history there is lmao, i didn’t expect there to be so many !! feels nice that it’s not just me here but alot of people too
20:42 As a half-korean queer person, it was really new for me to learn that Confucianism in itself doesn't condemn or forbid homosexuality, although during the time it developed a negative image of homosexuality during the time. I know that this coulbe probably be distinctly in Vietnam, but in Korea, Confucianism was the dominant belief during the Joseon dynasty and this influenced some of the beliefs of people till the modern age. I always thought at the beginning that due to Confucianism, queerness in Korea became looked down upon. But it was really opening that it wasn't really the belief itself, but the people who tried to make a narrative to demonize queer people. I know that this video focuses on Southeast asian queerness and that there could be some distinctions of it from East asian queerness, but I just wanted to point out what I thought was interesting to me that was eye-opening and somehow took down some of the misconceptions I had about Confucianism during the time.
Hi Xiran, I'm a Southeast Asian wannabe writer from Indonesia who would like to take a crack at 'reconstructing' the existing story of Raya to a much more, let's say coherent and on brand depiction of Southeast Asian culture. I would also like to extend this idea to other writers and content creators from Southeast Asia to create their own version of Raya and The Last Dragon and we can hopefully put it out here for all to judge.
Hi there, our community happened to spot this and it honestly wouldn't be a great idea. For starters, we want to create something that belongs to us from the roots up, not 'fix' something that was ultimately a poorly-thought out cash grab. It also risks a lawsuit from Disney for infringing upon their content (it would be something of an irony, a Western monopoly opting to sue the natives of a region over content inspired by our lives in the name of copyright, but I digress). Raya and the Last Dragon is, for good or ill -- completed. There's not really a point in revisiting it (except for fanfiction, but that doesn't require a group effort, and I assume this offer is for something much more monumental). Better to take it as a lesson and focus on boosting and uplifting new content that hasn't been eroded by the Mouse to be a palatable caricature for non-SEAsians.
@@randominterwebzstranger Hi, I appreciate the attention to my original post. But I must disagree with this. I mean, why wouldn't it be a great idea? Let's just call it what it is, a collection of fan fiction inspired by Raya but not wholly dependent of its original content. Either way I am still going through with it though it may take some time to do it right, fanfiction notwithstanding. Maybe it doesn't need to have the same characters or even character names. Maybe it only needs one female protagonist and a dragon, the rest is up to you. What's important is I want to see more IDEAS coming from SEA content creators and they may not all going to be gold but at least we are seen creatively and doing our unique take on an otherwise vapid, made-by-committee product. I for one refuse to just take Disney's shit lying down. Forgive my language, and again thank you for your attention to my original post. :)
A wonderful video just like two previous videos! But, it kinda sad for me as Indonesian the section about Indonesia Queer SEA today forgot about (almh.) Hajjah Dorce Gamalama, a transpuan that really famous back then as Indonesian public figure during 2000s. She's really successful and recently passed away :"(( I also want to add that my senior who already graduated actually wrote a thesis about history of Queer Indonesia during colonialism era and once talked about it. She also wrote down that, although it's true that colonialism condemned the Queer in public, she found archives that religion also had some role ditching the Queer (although not in a very barbaric way like the western did, cmiiw). As I just got a glance of her thesis, my comment might also incorrect, so I'm sorry if I was wrong regarding this matter. (I still haven't finished the video so imma add some more later) EDIT: I've finished it and once again, this video mesmerizing as the other videos. I love the conclusion: [the queerbaiting in Raya was only for western audience, not the SEA audience and it's deviated from the movie was promoted as "authentic"]. I have no complaint anymore. Definitely satisfying!
This is well made, yet again. It is such a shame that nobody could talk about the topic from Thai perspective since we all know LGBT community is quite large and proud in that country. Thank you for all the efforts put into making this series!
Thank you all so much for this series of videos. It was deeply insightful, comprehensive, and enjoyable. I'm sure it took so much time and energy to put together but the work is acknowledged and appreciated. I had no idea the issues with Raya were this extensive! Thank you for informing us!
I super appreciate this deep dive. It's all so much more informative and nuanced than anything Disney could provide and I'm glad something like this could come out of that dumb debabcle.
Colonialism is so fucking frustrating and shitty. Every culture has its own problems and every culture should have its problems addressed first by people who belong to it, not having EVERYTHING about them overwritten with something equally bad or, more frequently, worse.
Hey Xiran, This is a great video (as are the earlier two), thank you very much for giving a platform to some of these discussions. I'd like to share a topic that I've been somewhat fascinated by recently, in case you find it interesting enough to delve into it in some video in the future. I've always wondered about the cultural perspective on Cao Cao owing to his portrayal in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Since I started getting into media that deals with the Three Kingdoms period, Cao Cao has been one of my favorite characters. I like the way he is portrayed as a shrewd and able politician and general, and his actions drive much of the most interesting parts of the period. I suppose my question is how Cao Cao is portrayed in Chinese media, and why that is the case. It seems like he is usually at least a little bit vilified, but from the tiny amount of non-Chinese texts I've been able to find on the historical realities of his situation, he does not seem like a particularly terrible political actor all things considered (especially in comparison with some of the other active warlords at the time). Is there something I'm missing? Does it come down to his portrayal in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms? And if so, why did he get portrayed like that? I'm positive there's some aspects to this that I'm missing, not being clued in on Chinese culture to a very great extent. Thank you for the video!
I'm eastern european and I thought when I was watching this movie that they're both, Namari and Raya are very feminine characters. I couldn't see Namaari as more masculine. She was for me just beatiful probably lesbian woman. I think that there is an enormous difference between perception of eastern and western european as same as between southest asians and eastern asians
Wow. This entire video essay series is amazing. I feel like have learned SO much but also have so much more to learn about the myriad cultures in SEA. This video in particular was so powerful and made me tear up a few times. Thank you all so much for this.
This was great! Thanks so much to everyone involved in putting it together. I've loved this channel since I found it like two days after you made it Xiran, but this was just next level. Like, you're a number one best selling author now, you don't have to do this! And you go ahead and organize this massive collaboration with so many interesting people I've never even heard of... Thanks again to all of you.
I’d love to see you watch and discuss the animated series Jackie Chan Adventures (2000-2005). Predating Avatar the Last Airbender, the show was another early series that exposed the western millennial generation not only to Chinese mythology and culture, but various cultures around the world.
Wow this was really well made and well researched. I cant believed Ive watched all 5 hours of this. As a Vietnamese person (though I am not apart of the LGBT community so take this with a grain of salt) I'm a little surprised you didn't mention Bắc Đẩu (the openly trans character for almost 2 decades now from the Lunar ny's pecial program Gặp nhau cuối năm) and the discourse around her considering how prominent of a figure she is. She sparked a lot of conversation surrounding how queer people should be portrayed in media. I remember reading an article about how the LGBT+ community pushed back against the transphobic and insensitive jokes which poked fun at her which lead the show to tone it down for the following years (I cant judge if it was effective though since I'm not trans). Nevertheless she is a character much beloved by vietnamese people.
It's also bad representation for Southeast Asians The movie acts like they place trust so high that they'd trust anyone as Schafrillas' video shows. SEAs would cut off those who are untrustworthy. They'd want to maintain social harmony.
again, i said this last time and i'll say it again, incredible work from all involved, so interesting and informative and detailed. it's given me a lot to think about (in a good way!)
This is an amazing series; a clear point-by-point dissection. I used to be kind of indifferent towards this movie, but now I am appaled and horrified by how much ignorance was put into it (and the south-east asian queer culture sounds so fascinating, I could listen to the round table talking about it for hours). I pretty much missed the shipping discourse about Raya×Namaari before because i mentally yeeted it into "yet another case of fandom being fandom" ship discourse pile, but when overwhelmingly western queer coding was mentioned, i realised why Namaari's design looked like i've seen it before: she looks very american. The designers could've slapped a bumper sticker saying "American lesbian" on her and it wouldn't have looked out of place(I also have to add that i deeply appreciate that SEA queer culture and presentation discussion as someone who tends to miss a lot of queer subtext; according to my friends i can sometimes miss the coding equivalent of a neon pink glowing elephant in the room, both straight and queer; so this was very enlightening to me; thank you so much.)
Yeah, I'm a Raya fan, and I never got why people believe that Raya and Namaari are a couple. 😐 Like, where does the media, KMT, and the fans get that idea that Raya and Namaari are a thing? 😐
I'm not done with this video yet but because of the title, is why I never trust Disney to make lgbtq characters ever because they will only tip-toe and never go in depth. By the way this long presentation regarding the movie has taught me a lot as a filipino. Raya and the Last Dragon during first impressions was okay to me, but learning the film has bigger problems I've never thought of fascinates me! Keep at it ya'll
Okay, I haven't gotten fully through the video, but the point about queer expression being extremely white and western in portrayal just.... Damn that hit hard. I'm not a SEA, i'm an indian, who is extremely femme, loves my culture more than anything, but I deal with feelings of not being a lesbian because I don't fit into western queer culture, and feelings of not being indian enough because I'm gay, and just seeing that being put to words is.... I LOVE YOU GUYS
Let's be real guys Disney will never ever have the courage to create LGBT characters. Mitchell's vs The Machines does a much better job at LGBT Representation. The whole plot of Raya revolved around Raya and Namaari's relationship and yet these characters are never fully fleshed out. Anyways BIG shoutout to Xiran and their team for all their efforts and hard work. Definitely learnt much more about SEA cultures than Raya and the Last Dragon. And that costume is 🤩🤩🤩✨✨✨✨✨
@Luis Suazo IDK if that was intentional but I think Disney didn't actually meant for Shang to be Bisexual since it was kids movie , but it turned out to be nonetheless
Agreed. It does seem like a lot of movies/shows just hide a little representation right at the end of the movie or the series, it's a little frustrating for me. I'm not asking for a queer couple's queerness to be the main focus though, like in Mitchell, it's a hey so-and-so is gay. I bring up Legend of Korra a lot. We see a whole lot of Mako's dating life, even Bolin's, but Korra and Asami just get the ending. I really REALLY wished we knew more about their letters to each other! I also noticed that cartoons tend to be scared of queer men? There's been an amazing amount of wlw or femme queers represented the last several years in cartoons compared to mlm or masc queers.
Uuuuh, Mitchel vs the Mashines slightly implies it but its still not enough. In She-Ra the main ship is Gay and neither character is written as the gay best friend (Looking at you, Kipo. Bensons relationship was like sooo undercooked)
Edit: All right, I have HAD IT. Jes n Cin's voice is similar to mine but they are NOT me, I am NOT the one speaking during the presentation itself. I did the intro and then passed it off to them. Listen to 0:01:37 again if any of you are still confused. Also here are some links to resources - Folder with presentation slides of whole project: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tDJ9rwRbs_VRsKmgp6Ubnewn0j0RA3Rt Research Notes: docs.google.com/document/d/19thZ4N0KxVyGQjZthyksbjIrBJgwbSXB0ksw-SNZwyY/edit?usp=sharing Southeast Asian Charities & Organizations to Support: docs.google.com/document/d/1TOP96Jofr9GRHPdk7ZSHNlwpX_HVe9tDTcciJREGbD4/edit?usp=sharing
@@ManiyaVinas what? I'm sorry but some lesbian flags were changed because of actually important issues, the purple flag was taken over by transphobes, and the pink flag was created by a man afaik, the current, orange one, has been created by a lesbian, so what is the issue?
@@ArukiTsukaru They said something along the lines of "it's funny how when women create something it doesn't even last a decade, while when men invent things, those are remembered for centuries or even millennia, no matter how bigoted or otherwise it was". I suppose they regained just enough common sense to realise how incredulously asinine on sooo many levels what they wrote truly was and to delete it out of embarrassment.
A little analogy: As a kid you met this other kid who had similar interests as you and you hung out for a couple hours. Then you told them a secret, hoping it will make you make friends, but they go off and tell everyone about that secret. Then a couple of years later you meet that person in school. Would you act like you knew each other for years? Would you be a little flirty? I'm guessing no. I don't really see a relationship there.
i feel like this issue would be solved if namaari didn't intentionally betray raya. like she originally planned to follow through with it, but realized she and raya had a lot more in common than she thought, and it made it harder to want to go through with the plan even after raya (kind of stupidly) handed it to her on a silver platter. maybe one of fang's people followed and tried stealing it and raya makes the assumption that namaari led them to the heart on purpose and loses all trust in her. the concept of trust that the movie incessantly hammers in kinda would've made more sense by this point, but honestly i just genuinely hate namaari's character. she's not written well at all.
"The idea that their ancestors would have welcomed them with open arms even though people today look down on them, it's a complicated and indescribably unique kind of joy."
I think the reason Raya felt so hollow representation-wise and movies like Encanto have flourished is because Encanto is a deeply Latine story (use of magical realism, intergenerational household, confrontation of generational trauma and expectations that come with being a child of immigrants, food as a force for healing, AN ENTIRE SONG IN SPANISH) that genuinely wants more people to know about the beauty and magic of Columbian culture. Even Kung Fu Panda, though made by white people, took care to integrate the philosophies of Chinese culture into the story and create authenticity that would give western audiences a window into a culture they may not have been exposed to. Raya doesn’t love SEA culture, and it shows by them not even dedicating themselves to a particular culture. Disney has enough money and resources to uplift the stories of marginalized people instead of just using their cultures for aesthetic, but they choose the latter because it’s easier and more profitable.
Raya and Namaari's "dep la" lines were them being childish little sh*ts by using "screaming slipper" as an insult. YOU CANNOT CHANGE MY MIND ABOUT THAT.
42:00 so many important points said here. The colonial rule really damaged our cultures. They even butchered the arts and crafts industry in India(maybe even in other countries). Im glad there are so many of us are reclaiming our culture and bringing the beauty back
This comment reminds me of the videos made by a woman trying to recreate The Peacock Dress, which had embroidery done by Indian craftspeople, but she learned how a lot of the industry was destroyed in India so that what they made could be made in England instead, not only because it was popular in England but so they could sell it back to the people they stole it from. I could be remembering wrong, but if anyone looks up “the peacock dress” they can learn more about it
@@pheonixrises11 Exactly!!!!! I remember my grandparents telling me how they were forced to buy clothes "imported" from England by paying import duty for clothes that were essentially manufactured locally, but taken to england, rebranded and sold here. Thats why Gandhi's weaving wheel movement was so significant. Giving Indians back the power to wear clothes. That and the salt movement. By God those people were monsters!!
similar to what happened in the colonial era in the philippines. pre colonial philippines were very queer until spaniards enforced the idea that not being a cishet is a sin along with their influence of christianity centuries ago so the queer aspects of our culture died out and was almost forgotten by the general public. its truly sad
British colonizers literally cut off the thumbs of the weavers who weaved muslin, jamdani and many more traditional suti fabric clothes around Bengal to destroy the cottage industries surrounding these crafts. So that the cheap copies they made in their factories in England could be more accepted than the high-quality original product. Today, these mostly exist in stories💔
My Central Asian self was not expecting to feel so seen and recognized here but the conversation about how Asians aren't viewed as queer by white people, how white queercoding is the default and how erased we are in representation as well as the hostility and alienation we face in white queer spaces had me nodding and feeling relieved throughout this video. It's kind of nice to know there are other people dealing with these issues and that we are all, collectively, very tired of all this. White people throwing an undercut and a nickname into a movie so tumblr will give the gif sets some reblogs is not the same as actual representation in any way.
As a white queer person it’s kind of shocking to hear about all this :’/ you’d think that we as a community would do ANYTHING but create a default to uphold, but unfortunately it exists
And while it’s true that different sub-communities have stereotypes that they joke about or even identify with, making them the standard is a terrible idea
@@joeschmo4646 Who is this comment directed to? Neither I nor anyone else in this thread mentioned accents at all. Did you mean to reply to someone else?
Incredible covering of Indonesian LGBTQ+ community. The rise of religious conservatism and heavy censorship by the ministry by late 00s/early 2010s supressed media made or about LGBTQ+ people. As you said, Indonesian's traditional culture is not gender-restricted or binary, yet politicians and religious conservatives always claim that LGBTQ+ is an evil entity from the West that will ruin the country. This fearmongering sadly works, especially to older people. Exorcism, or in local terms, Rukiah, is still a common practice to "heal gay people from their gayness", their belief is that gay people are possessed by demons of their opposite sex, hence why they are attracted to the same sex (none of this is in Qur'an). Lots of parents brought their children to this facility once they either came out or was outed by someone else. Another thing worth mentioning is RUU PKS, a law for protecting sexual abuse victims that is still waiting for approval after like, 4 years at this point? Very few parties wanted the law to be approved as is, a good chunk of them wanted it to be changed (and by changed I meant watered down and be filled with loopholes), but one particular conservative party completely rejected it, claimed that this will make the evil LGBTQ+ accepted in Indonesia and all men will be falsely accused of rape because this law is too vague about its definition of rape (literally just asking for consent before sex). Glad that younger people are more accepting but as long as these homophobic boomers are in power we still have a lot to go :') Recently, a beloved trans figure in the country, Dorce Gamalama also passed away. She was an incredible entertainer and a loving trans muslim woman who pushed the boundary of gender normativity in the country, especially in the media. When she announced her transition, she was denounced by many conservatives but she kept her spirit and still became an iconic Indonesian public figure. Incredibly disheartening to hear that she was buried in a male religious custom, despite that she wished to be buried as a woman, she already went through gender surgery, and she was listed as a woman in her civil documents. As a muslim, I think it's such a disrespectful act and the ustadz's reasoning for her burial is not based on syariah law or "protecting her against Allah's wrath", but society's disdain towards trans people. Regardless, may Dorce rest in peace.
Iya anjir what they did to Dorce is fucking unforgivable. They should've respected her wishes but they can't even do the bare minimum Gara2 orang tua disini LGBTQIA stuff is gonna take a long road to be accepted, I really wish they were more open :']
It doesn't matter if something isn't literally in the Quran or Bible or whatever, religious people will use anything they can to fuel their hatred using the text as the "word of god" when literally it's not. And until religious people can separate religious texts from religion, not everything but a lot of it is rubbish, then homophobia and transphobia will continue
i agree deeply on ur point and what u said. people's treatment on queer ppl here is just straight up harrassment, not to mention the r4pe culture that has been going on for so long. as a queer gender non confirming Indonesian muslim, it honestly can be so tiring and confusing to be all of the above when all the communities ur in don't seem to accept u fully and often quarrel with each other
Even when we're just asking for basic human rights, they will argue by saying we should've conformed to the religious norms in the country. The last time i checked we should have basic human rights by just being born human but i guess that wasnt good enough for them. Also i wanna add that there has been protests against the RUU PKS, stating that because it would protect everyone regardless of gender and sexuality, it would encourage people to become queer which is not true at all. They have also stated that since consentual sex is not prohibited by the RUU PKS, it would encourage premarital sex. Like wtf? Its a law for protection against sexual assault! Anything other than that shouldnt be in it
as a jewish queer person, it's facinating to hear about sea queerness, and yes yes yes to the talk or the erasure of nonwestern queerness!! I have incredibly strong feelings about different cultural clothing that is never talked about. for example, yamakas! they're very drenched in gendered connotations, and I've had a complicated relationship with them since I was a little kid, as a nonbinary person. I've worn them with buzzing excitement only to be shot down, I've been offered them and not worn them, I have many feelings about them. but if I wore a yamaka in america where I live, it likely would not be recognized as masculine.
Interesting insight! I only recognize a yamaka as masculine because I used to live next to a Jewish neighbourhood, with a synagogue one street away and a school in front of our apartment. However, I would admit that I never thought about it in the context of queerness (I'm a generally clueless person). This brings a whole new perspective to that one girl that wore a yamaka. At the time, I was just like: "I thought only boys wear them? But it's cute on her too. Anyway, moving on..."
@@petiteange08 I mean, at my synagogue, kippot are mandatory for boys and optional for girls, so it’s more gender neutral. But in some contexts it could definitely represent masculinity. (Yarmulke is the Yiddish word for kippah, for context). Also, Jewish men have a history of being seen as less masculine than goyiche white men because of differences in Jewish masculinity(see “nice Jewish boy” trope) and Jewish girls being seen as bratty for not necesssarily being as submissive as white western women(see “jewish American princess” trope)
Queerness is different in different countries and cultures and that's something (mostly American) western lgbtq dosent understand and tries to help in ways that don't understand our culture that links our queers identitys
As an American who doesn't have a connection to the Jewish community, I've always associated yamakas on adults with men/masculine identifying? .... am I not supposed to? Going to research
queer Indonesian here, oh boy you don't know how much me and bunch of my SEA friends latch ON into this ship. and how much we've all desperately try to rewrite the story and attempt our best to make this ship not as toxic as it is, because admittedly, yea, everyone (in my friend group at least) realizes how toxic this ship is. it's like catradora if catra just continues being an ass and not learn from her mistakes. I think if anything it kinda shows how desperate we are for both queer and SEA representation, and it's kinda sad. we don't get those often, and the only somewhat queer reading SEA Disney princess we get turns out to be horrible with further reading. like, the more I watch this movie, the more I kinda despise it despite thinking it was an ok movie at first. really goes to show Disney's aggressive SEA marketing
@@BabyGirlTiny It's an intentionally messed-up relationship like Batman and Catwoman (except they weren't kept out of a relationship by stupid comic book editorial decisions), also those two were clearly coded as attracted to each other since the beginning (yes, I have not brought up Batman and Catwoman randomly, that early episode had so many "Bruce Wayne meets Selina Kyle at a high society event" vibes that even my cishet ass picked up on it), and it takes literally four seasons of trauma and an entire season of trying to atone for Catra for the mutual attraction to be acted upon. "Rushed" my ass, had it been yet another heterosexual relationship nobody would have batted an eye.
@@det.bullock4461 You say it took four seasons to redeem her, but she was still diving hard into those toxic behaviors by season 4. I mean, she did try to literally end the entire world in no small part to spite Adora. It's not like she spent the whole time trying to be better, so by the time she did suddenly start it felt rushed, at least to me and apparently a lot of people. While I have no doubt that some people hated on the show because of the LGBT+ relationships, personally I think if they'd had more time it would've been more believable. The last season really felt like 2 seasons squeezed into one. I could see the beginnings of Catra's redemption, but how quickly it happened? How she just basically flipped a switch with no slides back into old habits and everyone forgave her very quickly like she hadn't tried to kill them all multiple times? It just felt unrealistic to me, like she needed more time to develop before she could handle herself much less a romantic relationship. As you said it's far from a unique problem. Shera isn't the only show that I've complained about this with, and it's far from the worst offender. I just felt like they spent 4 seasons trying to convince me she was irredeemable and only one trying to convince me she was willing to be better. I really needed that 6th season to showcase her growth and really make her shine in a way that, I personally felt, she just didn't get the chance to.
@@mykodibear17 Season 4 was about showing us that Catra didn't want to be evil but she kept at it because that's all she knew, not about seeing her as irredeemable in fact doing evil things leaves her utterly broken by the end of the season and has multiple breakdowns. Also the head of the good guys is literally undergoing a similar personal issues-fueled power trip during the same season, and I think Glimmer not being able to relate to Catra to an extent and be able to forgive her would make her a hypocrite. She also *does* fall back to old habits several times during the last season, like when she isolates herself on the ship or she's so convinced Entrapta hates her that she doesn't want the chip removed. Her issue wasn't being evil (which was more a consequence), but her deep-seated conviction that she was worthless and could only survive by bullying others because that's how she was trained by Shadow Weaver (while Adora, who was the "favourite" instead expresses her lack of self-worth by trying very hard to be the brave little soldier). Adora coming back for her and later sticking with her put a dent in her main motivation for doing evil things, she still retains an edge (not unlike IDW Megatron) but the main motivation for her old habits has been weakened enough for her to find a new balance.
Just a little advice for anyone that speaks English as a second or third language: stop apologizing for not having perfect fluency. Don't let anyone put you down because you make mistakes in writing or speaking, especially if they're American. You're already light years ahead many people who can't even speak their native language properly.
This was an incredible presentation! One part the interested me the most was the section about Đạo Mẫu. It sounds kind of similar to traditional māhū in Hawaiian culture, who were third-gender people (typically AMAB) who were well respected community members. They taught hula and oli, and ALSO performed the roles of goddesses in hula in rituals that were off-limits to women. It’s SO awesome learning about other cultures and realizing the similarities we have!
I have never before seen a big creator so actively and clearly use their platform to lift up others voices, this is epic and you continously show how awesome you are
Yet another LGBT relationship for Tax Purposes; carefully alluded to in the hopes the audience baits themselves into it, never acted on to avoid being called out on when they subsequently strip those lines and scenes out of certain international versions. You don't get credit for a relationship you baited the audience into making for themselves so you could lie about having never meant to do it if it goes wrong. Also, this video series is now seven minutes short of being three times longer than the entire film it is critiquing, and I have a feeling you are not even done.
What's weird though is that there wasn't even any online discourse about the queer relationship or even a debate of queerbaiting relating to it. And both those aspects were heavy when people talked about Luca or The Mitchells vs. The Machines
Pre-colonial Philippines is actually more accepting of same sex relationships and queerness. We have transgender deities in our mythologies and gender crossing practices are normal.
not to mention how women and men in precolonial philippines were seen as equal and babaylans (who were usually women but could also be men) were very respected in their community
@@FG-tu4fq apparently we're not sure if that's real or not (cough cough years of history being destroyed by colonizers) but i choose to believe they were hella gay for each other
i cant imagine how much work went into this!! im a 2nd gen korean american and lately i've JUST started looking for korean queer culture content on youtube and have found myself shocked?? i think i spent so long being fed the narrative that asians are conservative that i just assumed there would not be much of an lgbtq community in korea but ive been pleasantly surprised at the amount of queer youtubers ive found. this video definitely sparked my interest to go learn more about the queer history in korea:D thank u guys for this wonderful video. something about hearing minorities get to speak in depth about these topics without being spoken over/watered down is soo refreshing
American dragon barely explores that theme in the show. Even if she made a video on it there’s nothing to talk about. It’s mostly just about jake’s adventures as a fantasy realm guardian and the fantasy creatures are mostly Western European types, barely any mention of Chinese mythology.
This was amazing! As an Iranian Queer person I always like to learn more about queerness in other countries, but the discourse is heavily dominated by the western experience. This was by far the best video/article/anything I’ve seen covering SEA.
Playing with the idea of gender is something I don't think enough fantasy writing does. Something I used to play around with in my own writing was the idea of "gender roles" that weren't actually based on sex. Because all gender roles are, when you strip away everything, is just a way society organizes its members. They're always based on sex as far as I know in the "real world," but there's no reason it has to be. One specific culture I developed was one where gender roles weren't based on sex, but more on the capacity to take care of yourself. They had dress styles that related to these roles so it could be instantly recognized which one you were as well as complex expectations for each role. Naturally, because you age and mature, in this culture you change gender roles as you grow, with the exception of the disabled gender category - the people who would always need a certain amount of care just to survive. The disabled category were venerated as a reminder from the gods that, no matter how independent you become, you will always need some help to survive, so you should never try to become so independent that you alienate yourself. The disabled would be looked to for advice on organizing and it was their role to find out who in the culture is struggling and advice the leaders on what to do to help them. The heavily mentally disabled were their own subcategory and were seen as being gifted with prophetic powers, but prophecy reveals itself obliquely, so it was necessary to interpret their words carefully and basically became non-diefic focuses of worship. But as far as gender roles related to sex, there really weren't any, because this group of people were a non-human species with low sexual dimorphism. The infants developed to a state of eating solid foods very quickly, so breast feeding was a short enough period that the women didn't really need to take a long break from their other adult duties and it was the duty of the old adolescents to do most of the work of caring for the children after infancy. As a result of this, relations between siblings and cousins tended to be far more important than between parents and children, though obviously the parent-child relationship was not meaningless. So, while this wasn't what we thought of as gender in modern discussion, it fulfilled the same social purpose as gender. And the great thing about fantasy is it lets you challenge notions like this. Even the fundamental assumption that gender must be based on anything biological at all. Because while sex is built in at a genetic level, everything related to gender is mostly just cultural assumptions. And even sex being genetic can be challenged, because sex is just a function of biological reproduction and you could have species that have more than two biological sexes. Or, say like certain species of amphibiaans, where certain environmental conditions can trigger a spontaneous change in biological sex. The point of this long ramble is basically that fantasy lets you really explore and challenge our notions of sex and gender, but we always frame that in terms of how it relates to traditional western gender norms and that is really boring.
@@sophiejones3554 Unfortunately, I never got around to writing a story that detailed that. The group was always mentioned on the side as a background detail, but I ended up falling out of my writing hobby before I got there.
I'm currently doing worldbuilding for my own story and I have written a different gender structure as well! at least subconsciously, bc I'm non-binary and decided that I didn't want transphobia/enbyphobia to exist in this world (or any queer-phobia for that matter) the continent's name is Kaslin and one thing I have down rn is that there is some sort of "coming out" ritual in the currently unnamed southern archipelago-it takes place whenever the person is ready (usually 8-15 years of age but can be older, younger, or hell it may not even happen at all) and it is a sort of traditional declaration/celebration with lots of food, dance, all that fun stuff (the food and dance pertains to the individual's gender identity!) this is usually done with family and friends They don't assign genders to newborns as gender is decided by the individual-in fact to label your child prematurely is considered very disrespectful and ungodly However, some things are categorized into certain gendered groups, but the gendered groups/roles are not binary and not based off of sex one gender role is characterized as being fluid, another "androgynous", another "masculine" (considered that way bc male individuals often lean to this role) "feminine" (same thing as the former but with females), neither/unsure (similar to being agender), list goes on and on bc the gender roles are a whole huge spectrum and can mix with one another one of my ocs is from the archipelago and they're non-binary!! as well as their child and all of this stuff is just brushing the surface of one of Kaslin's regions!! the whole Eastern side of Kaslin shares a similar structure to this but it varies depending on region, I could go on and on but I do not have the time nor the energy to do so wjsbq, plus Kaslin is only a couple of months old so a lot of it is still in early development (if anyone's read this far I appreciate you listening to my rambling lol)
If you get a chance read Brian Schanrch's Neither Man nor Woman. It talks about different gender roles and how they aren't always based on sexual dimorphism. Some native American tribes had as many as 4 genders. Ultimately you're correct, historically it's a way of organizing people to ensure the work gets done.
43:40 😅I felt the upset. Haha, I remember feeling that same rage when a family member tried to say that Christianity saved enslaved Africans. I am African American and this family member is too, yet they considered it a fortune of slavery. I mean, it would’ve spread to us in Africa via missionaries had we stayed there but you see what colonialism did to African societies, so how can you defend enslavement which is like colonialism squared? 🤦🏾 I respect religious individuals on an individual basis but it stuns me how people don’t see that colonialism and the import of Christianity brought homophobia and other hate to their original cultures. That’s the root of the problem, that we destroyed our rich cultures and forgot that it’s hate that was imported involuntarily so many centuries or decades ago.
So, I'm Muslim Somali, and it stuns me on just how much of the Muslim world was open to gay men, only men tho, before Christian colonizers came in and imposed laws on them that demonized, restricted and censored gay men from our art and writing. And now we act like that's our tradition and that's how it's supposed to be. No, that's the tradition of the white people that colonized us and the Saudi puppets that imposed their wahabi version of Islam on us. People need to learn history.
You should fan that rage by listening to the podcast "Stuff The British Stole". As a SEA person living in a former British colony, I am STILL upset at how much of our cultural treasures and texts are still being held in European museums, and the Western laws that were imposed on us in exchange for independence.
Africans did turn their Christianity into their own special thing. But I think before Christianity, homosexuality wasn't widely known or tolerated. I remember reading about a tribe who didn't know what it even was. Christianity, though, isn't necessarily alien to Africa. Ethiopian Christianity is ancient, from the 600s and before. Christianity doesn't have to destroy cultural values. Look at Korea or the Philippines, the latter having a tolerance of the LGBT.
@@psychonaut1502 There are tribes that have more than the binary happening as well- like the SEA have. So it's mixed across tribes- it varies. Overall, colonialism fucked up more things than not in Africa.
I'm still mad about Raya, "bisexual" Loki and Luca, especially this last one since i'm a gay italian 20 years old. My take on the matter is pretty much the same explained in James Somerton's video called "Disney's gay cultura appropiation", where Disney has found that sweet spot where they can bait the queers and make it invisible to straight people, exploiting a queer person life experiences, rebranding and selling it under a different name, basically "straight gaslighting".
I'm not actually blaming this on Disney. People WILL insert themselves on these characters specially in this day and age. In Luca all I saw was children and friendship. But people were all 'they be f**kin' More recently in Encanto you have people pointing at Isabela with a 'she is CLEARLY a lesbian' because she didn't want to marry one guy even thou in the pre-work she even had a secret boyfriend. Camilo had very little screen time and people are going 'he is TOTALLY a non-binary because he is a shapeshifter' REALLY? Why didn't no one called Mystic or Morph from X-men non-binaries? Or any other shapeshifters from other shows? I see no problem with ships and headcanons and all that. If people want to think they are non-binary/gay/lesbian go and have fun. Make fanfics and share with people. It's good and nice and okay. The problem is when they begin to see this as the only possibility and calling others homofobics and all that because they don't agree
@ライフさようなら I wonder why this guy was pissed at that, if anything him just casually mentioning was the best thing they did. I guess people like to move goal posts
@@ianesgrecia8568 To be fair, the X-Men movies (which are what mainstream culture knows) always have Mystique shapeshift into a female form unless there is a specific male she needs to impersonate for strategic reasons. It's obvious from the films that Mystique sees herself as female. Mystique is also already queer in the comics (but still cis, as far as I know), and also transgender issues weren't as prominent when the X-Men movies were coming out.
And it's extremely painful when being a queer movie lover living with a heteronormative movie lover. Trying to explain queerbaiting to my mother was a nightmare.
i personally detected no queer subtext cause their relationship was written so lacklusterly that they didnt even seem like friends or foes to begin with, let alone would-be lovers, like wow you talked about dragons for what, 20 minutes or whatever, all i know is that it was less than a day, and then they overdid the villain twist. either she had to decide between a budding friendship or nationalism when suddenly given the chance, in which case they failed to show the emotional conflict which her entire character arc is about, or she had somehow planned the whole thing before they even met which undermines everything anyhow the biggest sin of this movie was setting it in south east asia and then having the most generically uninteresting scenery like what the hell
That's what I was thinking. It's not representation because you're letting the audience do the work that you are supposed to do. Might as well give the audience the opportunity to create their own stories with good representation, instead of silencing them or messing with them.
I've never seen Disney torn apart to shreds and scrutinized and criticized of screwing up so much since Adam of YourMovieSucks did his Lion King/Kimba review
Bruh if you want to see Disney trashed even more check out YMS Highlights. There's a 12+ part video series on Adam working on his _actual_ LK live action review. He tears Disney apart so much in it. And the actual review isn't even out yet either!
