Instagram: mr_crispin In this video I tackle an 'on lathe' grinding operation designed to regain proper spindle nose geometry. The machine is a Harrison 190 and the grinding unit is a Dumore 44 Tool Post Grinder.
Ah ah! I was looking for just this question. Was wondering if there might be burrs interfering with the fitment considering the beating it's had. Probably no problems with a 1mm clearance.
Demonstrates absolute cleanliness required when changing chucks to avoid the damage to the spindle nose incurred on your lathe by the previous abusers. Great outcome.
Absolutely - any apprentice caught napping on the cleaning job at RR will get the pleasure of watching the unedited footage of this operation before being sent to bed without dinner 🤭
Well done Crispin, that spindle nose has certainly seen some abuse, it makes you wonder what goes through some people's minds when loading a chuck based on the size and depth of some of those dings! Cheers, Jon
I use magnets to hold the cloths on. Love the idea with the elastic band for sealing the back of the chuck, very professional, but then you are! Excellent outcome, and another must watch for engineers everywhere! Phil
People scoff at foil hats, but they actually have one verifiable positive property....(as l expect you discovered wearing your shiny chapeau for a few minutes). They are incredibly warm. In my alpine adventuring days, I used to have a Francital ski suit. It cost a bloody fortune but it was the warmest winter clothing I've ever owned. (Which is saying a lot with our Canadian winters). Why was it so good? It had only ~5 mm of loft, but within that was a layer of "Texolite" - which at the time, was a textile made of aluminized polyester film. It was amazing - you'd feel your own heat radiated back to you even as you donned the jacket. I wore that suit for years until it was so embarrassingly threadbare I had to retire it. I haven't been as warm in winter since. Alas, Francital got out of the recreational clothing market long ago...
Wonderful content as always Mr.Crispin and I thoroughly enjoyed the big band and I'm so pleased it came together for you in the end. But isn't always the case when you are trying to get a job done there is never enough power. Looking forward to the one. Thanks again greatly appreciated it.
I was fortunate enough to find a tool post grinder to go with my old Sheldon and Atlas lathes. This was an informative look into the tasks it is appropriate for. Your style, doing and describing, reminds me of MrPete222, it is the fastest way to really cover a topic. I have been very pleased with the improvement in my 3 jaw chuck after regrinding it.
I like the way you define a course of action by saying ". . . otherwise I will incur an error". Much better than saying (or thinking) "that will probably be good enough" or something similar, as some amateur workshop chaps might do. You are a professional in these matters Sir, and that really counts for me and many of your fans. Thank you for adhering to the "proper" way! "Never incur an error" will be my mantra in the workshop from now on!
I've ground a few spindle noses in exactly the same way but I had the advantage of an old hand looking over my shoulder on the first one. My mentor's contribution was to quantify initial conditions and making progress checks using a dial indicator. Grind the taper first. Tram the grinder spindle to sweep a plane radial to the lathe spindle axis (as you probably did but didn't show.) Offer up the gage and note the side play with a dial indicator. Depth mike from the end face to the registration surface. Knowing the side play and working the taper triganometry gives you the stock to be removed from the registration face to obtain a flush fit. Proceed, cup dressing the wheel face from time to time, taking side play and depth mike progress checks til you obtain a flush fit and then a bit further to obtain the 0.001" to 0.002" draw. The US standard governing spindle noses for lathes is USAS B5.9 - (1967) (Reaffirmed 2004) Available from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. In it are detailed drawings of every version of US standard spindle noses including small parts. The Metric world standard is much the same differing in small details - but check! These standards are available for a fee (mine cost $35 in 2014) from the parent society. Pay the money! It's cheaper than screwing up out of ignorance. Your remarks on protecting the machine from abrasive dust cannot be over-emphasized. Hysterical care in protecting the machine from flying abrasive dust and a careful sequential dismantling of the shrouding with a thorough clean-up thereafter is only common sense. I'd also recommend cleaning/servicing the wipers. Good work, well illustrated.
@@MrCrispinEnterprises Thanks. I found it last night - the series leading up to the spindle nose grind in fact. Yes indeed. Hard rigid steel items are literally made of rubber on the micro scale and the amount of droop from gravity is roughly calculable if some simplifying assumptions are made and some basic math employed. I've used the very same demonstration (inverting a mag. base and DTI mounted on a short stiff length of square tube) to demonstrate to my apprentices the perils of sweeping diameters from horizontal spindles. That and your application of trade math, geometry, physics etc make your presentations most informative. Machine shop work aint just cranking handwheels and shoveling chips. The most important phase of part manufacture is the initial planning and calculation before the first chip. I'd recommend many of your videos as required viewing for machinist and tool maker apprentices. I discovered your videos only a few days ago. It's been most pleasent and informative browsing my way through them.
SUCCESS! Good job. From the pattern on the face it looks like the wheel axis was slightly downwards (no cross hatch), would like to see an indicator traverse across the face. I think those D5 pins are adjustable so you could have always adjusted them to the new depth if needed(if I recall). What really surprised me is just how soft that spindle nose is to sustain such deep damage.
Thanks for the interesting video. I think that was a bit stressful at the halfway point! Good point about not taking too much off the taper - they have a habit of being deceptive. A good job done. Helped me to appreciate the effectiveness of this kind of attachment design.
Another great video Crispin and again it’s showing how in engineering you have to think outside the box and make your own tools to do the job as off the shelf items are rarely job accurate. See you at work for more challenges 👍🏻
Hi Mr Crispin, When I reground the D1-3 taper on my Boxford 11-30 I made a gauge which gave me a reading of how much to take off the flat face once I'd tickled up the taper. It saved a lot of time. As you said you don't need to take a lot off the taper to mean you have to take a lot off the flat face. My gauge is a piece of round steel with a parallel hole through which contacts the taper about half way down. Three micrometer heads are zeroed with the gauge flat on a surface plate. I calculated the distance they needed to project to all contact the flat face with the same reading and then checked it against a D1-3 lathe at work. It was bob-on. The taper on my spindle was fine but the flat face wasn't. I took the minimum off the taper, checked with my gauge and then ground the flat face the difference shown on the gauge.
Excellent stuff! I'm really look forward to seeing how much (or little) runout there is on the back plate and chuck when its all finished. I'm hoping to have a new lathe shortly and maybe its something to check before putting into use for the first time. The chinese are not known for sorting out the little things on some of their machines. As Stefan says, they are a kit of parts.
Just and fyi .....most new equipment come with a comprehensive inspection sheet that provides pretty much ALL details specific to the motion accuracies. If you have the capabilities (precision measuring tools) it would be prudent to check what you can and compare your findings. .
Got the job done successfully, explained professionally. Always make a profit watching your videos. Thanks very much for sharing your experience and expertise with us.
Maybe it took longer because you cleaned up more of the taper, but that time can never be replaced. So don't regret it! A cleaner and better result was achieved. There's nothing wrong with striving for perfection if you can afford the time.
Well done. I have D1-8 spindle on my lathe and i think that you can adjust those pins in and out before putting allan screws. Got to get me one of those grinders, a tad bigger with AC motor for less noise.
I am surprised that you did not take deviation measurements before and after, using a tenth dial indicator. Great works and excellent video!! Thanks for sharing Sir.
@@MrCrispinEnterprises …and that here is one of the hallmarks of a professional! Knowing where to push for another magnitude of resolution or another .1% of speed etc. - and where not to 😊
I came across this video and found it very interesting and informative. Maybe it will interest you, because it’s a history of Rolls Royce and the developments leading up to the Merlin engine.
Maybe it's because I worked hard to pay for all of my tools and lathes (I have two), but I take extra care to clear any debris or chips when swapping chucks. I make sure there is nothing in between the spindle and whatever I'm mounting, not just for concentricity, but to avoid the type of damage that you just removed. Nice job btw. Very well done based on your Prussian blue.
Ownership is surely one of the differences, and Crispin reports that this lathe is ex-college so there’s that… ;) But there’s also the real-life pressure of having to make money (or make a lesson fit) and something’s got to give.
Agree with all the points above plus the idea of understanding. I expect learners at the college didn't understand the effects that the swarf was having.
i have done dozens of these. the simple way is remove .003 from the back face first then do the tapered spindle surface to diameter using the calibrated master ring. also i usually grind the nose end and mark it with the rework date. note that this will not fix bad bearings as some think it will,
I have been following your video series on taking your lathe to bits with great interest. Since I tend to feel weak whenever I see a neglected machine tool-or if you ask my wife, she'd say I’m not in my right mind-it just so happened that I ended up buying a lathe with a slightly bend spindle nose. In case you're wondering, no-it’s too late-it’s already in pieces. It seems that I have a similar task to tackle as you had, and because of this, I'm very interested in how you set up the dressing diamond so that its axis points precisely through the center of the toolpost grinder's axis. As you've rightly pointed out, when machining tapered workpieces, it’s crucial not to introduce any errors in this regard. However, since I'm a bit slow, I can't seem to picture a feasible way to set up the diamond as described. I assume you went with the tapered dress because you needed to grind the mating surfaces of the spindle nose and the chucks. Since in my case only the spindle nose needs reworking, I believe it might be more practical to dress cylindrically and, after machining the taper surface, realign the compound slide to work on the flat surface. I'd really love to hear your opinion or any corrections to my thoughts. Cheers
Great video. You explain things very clearly. I feel I'd be confident doing this with my Harrison if I needed to fix it. However I feel embarrassed by people feeling the need to know who Billy is. Surely if they watched your videos they would have picked up by now who he is!!!! The rest is none of their business. Looking forward to your next installment. 👍
Thank you very much Mr Crispin for another video.. We are also following your channel in the Netherlands, and some of us even have wife's. Can you imagine. Hope to see some loco work soon,. Loads of thumbs up from the colleague's and myself. Pleas keep going this way ! Ps/we are building a horwich crab in 5" gauge, and we'll enjoy it. But of coarse struggling (but managing) with imperial sizes. Keep up and thanks again!
Great video Mr.Crispin. Love the accent... reminds me of listening to Dick Van Dyke's voice when I watched Mary Poppins as a young boy. Love it! Thank you for sharing and don't pay any attention to the trolls. Great content my friend!
Hello good Sir, recently stumbled upon your channel and must say what a smashing place to frequent. I recently aquired a harrison 140 being inspired by that mechanic that pi*** about Mr doubleboost.
Not sure what happened with RU-vid, but I posted a very positive comment about your outstanding emphasis on protection of your bedways specific to the grinding you were about to do .....but I see it did not get registered for some reason. I posted the comment BEFORE I watched the entire video ....which was excellent, again, specific to the fitting between the taper and the spindle back face. So here is my comment again. Let's see what happens. .
Excellent refurbishment of the spindle nose, its certainly had some abuse in its previous life. Amazing how far minuscule amount of prussion blue spreads, can also be used on the handle of someone's car, should the owner unfortunately incur your rath, yes I have done once to great affect. Great job on lessons learned, true engineering science. Thanks for sharing Mr Crispin. Best regards John
Nice work and you're right about shallow tapers, doesn't take much to get it to seat way further back. Also i think you could just wind in the cam bolts another turn if you had to get agressive on the face - the gauge line of them might be below surface but I reckon they'd still work
Monarch lathes on spindle rebuilds, hard chromes the old spindle and regrinds the bearing mounts, last grinding the spindle nose/internal taper in place in those new Timken type zero taper roller bearings. The bearings have errors that are marked as high spots, regular production of spindles is going to have small errors also. Manufacturers of precision spindles inspect the components and often juggle the bearings high spots on inner and outer races to compensate for component errors, then finish off with a light grind of the spindle face and taper. This is why if a spindle for any reason is disassembled and reassembled will most often not run true as before. The only meaningful tip I have is if the spindle has to be removed, mark the spindle shaft and inner race locations and outer race locations so as they can be returned as close as possible. A factory spindle rebuild is over $15000. Grinding the spindle in place is the only option. Great video of the worst nightmare of a problem.
I’ve more problems with brand new wheels without damage blow up on me. But I’ve never had one that had a pice missing like you show blow up. I can see how it could but in my experience it’s never been an issue.
Great job. You make it look easy. Having watched I’m almost brave enough to do a test piece and finally get around to making a Hardinge taper copy to be able to move Hardinge chucked parts to my BS-0.
Great video demonstration and explanation cheers. I'm surprised that the internet warriors haven't given you grief about working on a lathe with a full sleeve overall, must've taken the week off.
I wonder how you knew it might catch fire! Or is that a result of doing a risk analysis/ method statement! Very good of you not to burn holes in your brothers face flannel.
Might have missed skimming on the video, but did you check spindle bearings runout and precision level before? For this operation is usually called 'Restoring spindle base' and requires quite precise bearings with lowest runout possible. Not to mention that in real industry it should be made using dead centers on fine-tuned center holes after all heat treatment operations complete and some time passed to stabilize the steel structure.
I eagerly await the next video to see if the aluminium foil head covering makes a re-appearance. Question: Did brother Billy recognise his toothbrush in your pen pocket?
Good result . Can you show a clip of the grinding pattern on the face next video ? . While you still have it set up , have a crack at shimming the grinder to get the criss cross pattern . Could not see if you achieved that or not . The method i use is to blue the face & rotate the wheel by hand , then shim the base angle up or down to get the result . Good one . 👍
Thanks for your comment. It's very close but not quite a full criss cross. It's flat enough that even minimal bluing covers the whole face but not quite criss crossed. I'll have a think.
@@MrCrispinEnterprises You are right about the limitations with speeds . You can partially get around that by running the lathe the other direction to get a reduction in surface speed if reqd .
You know, with some videos, the whole *point* of the thing is to have stuff exploding. I don't want to say I was disappointed, but... I'm just glad I have those alternatives to fill in the gaps in my entertainment requirements. 😇
I like watching your video's, so technical and skilful showing off your engineering prowess. One thing though, any chance you could wear a clean shop coat? I've never seen a dirty Rolls Royce emblem before, outrageous. Good content though. Thanks for posting.
Great Outcome Crispin. When we first chatted about what you intended to do with the spindle, you did say just grind out the high spots as 0.001" off the taper diameter would mean about 0.005" off the back face, looks like you took about 0.002" off the diameter then ? Do you remember how much you reduced the diameter by, just out of interest ? So glad you bought a Branded back plate instead of going Chinese for your reference gauge. After you have finished with it will you use for the ER 40 chuck ? Regards from Australia.
I think about 7 thou is probably the number but it's impossible to track as the front of the wheel wears. If I were to do it again then I would skim the front face of the hub first and then I'd be able to use a depth mike to monitor progress. Thanks for your support on this project.
Very interesting, I wondered how much you could remove to clean up the taper without having to take too much off the back to maintain the correct relationship. A really excellent explanation of the camlock system too. I expect that next you will be using a different wheel and cleaning up the spindle internal jarno taper (or whatever it is).
I did find this video interesting and enjoyed learning the process & I don’t own nor have access to use a lathe. BTW great brother joke in the beginning addressing the owner of the TBs in your pocket. 😅 it got an evil laugh out of me.
good job ! i love the grinding results, but i really hate grinding dust. the problem with grinding dust is not the dust you can see, it,s the super fine dust you cant see, that dust travels everywere into the shopmachine,s...
Forgive this electronics person for being so naive but… would it be possible / is it ever done to spray a very fine mist of coolant in the environs to catch and ground the finest particulates?
Excellent results there. Given the shallow taper, not surprising you had to take a lot off the back, but the results look to be worth the effort you've put in. I'm going to be making a vertical head for my milling machine, which is going to mean grinding bearing seats onto a spindle, and grinding the inside of the cone. I'm kinda carking it over that.
Thanks for another great video, it's nice to see how to do these things in reality in a home shop rather than in the perfect world. If you fancy doing a video on grinding wheels that'd be great, I know enough to be careful but not enough to know the best approaches for dressing, when it's safe to use a damaged wheel, safety testing a wheel etc etc etc. Also I'm sorry you felt the need to cover your first point, yes people with be interested (it's human nature) but you shouldn't feel like you should cover these points.
I have found when cutting shallow tapers it is safer to measure depth cut by table left/right and not the cross slide. That way you don't end up running out of room on an immovable feature
