Reacting to your EV versus ICE criticisms & feedback (contains nuts) | Auto Expert John Cadogan 

Yes, that would be good, very good. But that means that car makers wouldn't be able to sell more cars. I have a feeling that the structural battery pack in Teslas has that goal in mind too. It's a pity because you should be able to swap HV traction batteries as easily as you do your 12V. Whether the batteries wear out first or the car wears out, at least you get to keep one going.

A standardised battery format would be great on so many levels. Swap and go to remove the need for charging. It would also allow users to effectively rent cycles on battery packs. However manufacturers would see this as stifling their creativity with respect to designs. Recycling batteries is going to be an important thing. From what I've heard lithium chemistry is able to take reasonable advantage of this but we're not thinking forward enough and learning from the past. We need to be designing recycling in at the front end and not as an afterthought once the horse has bolted. Standardisation helps with all of this. Look at what the standard 18650 lithium cell has done. Just scale it up. Recent changes in EU with minimum levels of recycling should help but it would be better if the makers could take a leadership position and not rely on government directives. Like that's going to happen.

@@vk3fbab So, as John informed us, we are 50% short on demand of lithium, you want us to make two batteries for every vehicle. And recycling only works if it pays for itself and makes little profit. No one will do it for nothing.

@@vk3fbab from a study i read, by 2030 recycled lithium is going to make 1-2% of the demand/market. whether its bull time will only tell.

I-Miev had a LTO battery. Thsoe are great in regards of having a very very long lifespan. About 30 years or 10 000 full charges. The main drawback is that they have very high volume, so its hard to fit anything more than a fairly short range in a small car like the I-Miev. Also LTO was a very new technology back in 2013. I-Miev was the first product to use it. There is a sort of backwards drawback with this kind of battery. When the car is waste, the battery still have 15-18 years to go. This is probobly why most car manufactures have abounded LTO. Its cheaper to just use LFP or NCA batteries and just scrap the batteries with the car. With that LTO is very good for industrial applications.

CAT are offering complete reconditioning of their plant equipment back to new. Smart move.

​@@grantleyhughesthat's impossible after the blacks in Africa have operated that machine😂😂😂

They can destroy a square block of titanium

Used too, and they weren't very nice trucks from start to finish unlike a Volvo FM or FH. But with time and realization of chain of responsibility by truck owners, it's more economical to replace a 10 year old 1.5m km truck with 35,000hrs on it's second engine, if it's a volvo or Scania, probably only on it's first diffs and gearboxes. They are just worn out in the chassis now.

I'm a Peterbilt guy myself, but I definitely believe in keeping things going for as long as possible. I don't own one (yet) but I am an honorary member of a Ford Model T club. Most of these cars are over 100 years old, and have been restored to like new condition. I also have a friend who has a 1947 Beechcraft V35 Bonanza. It's 76 years old, and looks and flies like brand new. Any new vehicle should last at least 50 years. Considering what they cost today, it takes at least that long to get your moneys worth out of them.

yeah, when the "in the next five years" part came i yelled "it may as well be 50 years then", it isnt Here, stop dreaming.

Really well clearly you don’t do enough research battery technology is getting better every year. For homes Liquid Metal batteries then there’s depleted uranium technology which is only gaining traction.

Making it work in a laboratory is one thing; making a commercial product is yet another. The first is science; the latter is technology. Sadly it can be quite a journey to making a viable commercial product.

Because it's not needed. The investments to get that tech into consumer cars wouldn't justify the little advantage it might bring. An EV is the best selling car in the world because it's current tech already works for plenty of people.

Much like "Manmade Climate Change". The predictions from 5-10 years ago never come true, yet we're all supposed to continue to expect them to come true "In another 5-10 years" and pretend the previous predictions never happened.

You fail to see the source of all bullshit, which includes JC.

Astonishing levels

Not atoms, more like chunks.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Right on man!

My sentiments as well. I'm in Canada and no matter the state of the global economy, our illustrious idiot in charge keeps pushing through a higher carbon tax (useless as it is and only one of his numerous insane, dictator policies). People that can afford all this stuff, can. People who can't, suffer through insane policy. Carbon tax is a cash grab scam and there's not a soul on the planet that can convince me otherwise.

The sales people didn't force your friends to upgrade their solar installation??? Only rich early adopters could even afford this in the first place. The solar panels on my mom's house are 12 years old and she (like most owners) hasn't upgraded anything and has not planned to do so. I own an EV from 2019 and have no plans on "upgrading" either. Works just fine.

I understand your point, but watch for change. I made a video two years ago that said ICE was still more economical overall. Three months back I wanted to replace my wife's 2018 VW and took another look at EVs, just in case of change. Well, the $6,000 rebate was new, and BYD had arrived with an EV that was about $15,000 cheaper than a Model3, so I crunched the numbers against comparable cars, mainly the Nissan Qashqai TI and had to eat crow; the day of the EV had arrived sooner than expected. I bought the Atto3, and it goes well with my roof solar in sunny Brisbane, not to mention it drives so well. Now, this only means it's good for here, and if circumstances are favourable. The EV decision is always relative to location and circumstances, so you may have some waiting to do - just saying to keep an eye out for change wherever it is a poor choice at present.

Plus the grid won't handle a street full of people all plugging in their ev's when they get home .

@@nigelliam153It will. Entirely by co-incidence I was looking at an available supply map in Queensland this morning. Most residential distribution areas areas have > 1MVA additional capacity available even at the small scale maps. In non-metro areas of Queensland transformers are sized on the basis of each premises getting allocated 5kVA, I think. That should be sufficient to get a useful amount of charge into everyone's vehicle overnight. Remember the case of a person having to take their vehicle from '0% to 100%' each night is rare. Most people's vehicle use is a lot lower than that. What we do need to address though is fine grained control of vehicle charging to ensure worst case, lights go out, are always avoided. Queensland has the blunt 'turn it off completely' approach but we need a better integrated common protocol system where the vehicle owner can simply say 'I want at least 25% charge when I get up tomorrow' and let the car and network sort out how that is achieved.

@@retrozmachine1189 There are more states in Australia than Queensland, andrewallen9993 was talking about all of the country.

@@retrozmachine1189 try looking at the pole fuses or how many houses have 200A supply fuses which would allow them to charge 2 EVs on fast chargers? Or just look at LA were residents are now given a choice of running their AC or charging their car but not both at the same time.

@@redbomberr4594Thanks Captain Obvious. I never would have know that without your insight. Now how about you go and look at the availability of capacity in other parts of the country? I'll give you a tip just in case this is beyond your abilities; the same situation is seen across the country. There is over MVA capacity available all over the place, that's the network can carry MVA more than is currently used. All areas also have existing peak time capacity averages which they are all meeting. That means one way or the other the capacity to supply power for EV charging outside of peak hours (the 6pm etc hours) is there. Right now. With no additional work. At All. This might change in the future, depends on how flatly the greenification falls on its face, or not.

The WEF also said EVs are not the answer. It never was. the idea was to pass laws banning gasoline/diesel cars. people think they are going to get an ev to replace their gas car. they will not.

Look up what Toyota engineers had to say after they took apart a Tesla Model Y.

Toyota is incentivized to minimize the impact of EVs and maximize the clearly inevitable transition time since they don't really have any good ones, and their government doesn't want EVs. That is of course, unless orbtalair2013 is correct and the WEF will be killing democracy and we will all be slaves in communism 2.0. In that case we will all be taking public transportation or biking/walking.

Toyota are salty because they sold their stake in Tesla years ago for a pittance

And yet Toyota have just started to sell BEVs in the UK.

If there is a "shortage" of lithium, then clearly the price will go up (HINT: think about why GOLD is more expensive than iron for example) And if the price goes up, then clearly recycling and reusing the lithium in old battery packs will be viable. Today, the lead in the lead acid battery in your car is almost 100% recycled, and there is no reason we won't do the same for the elements in a BEV battery. I work with companies already that are using BEV batteries for second life storage and repower. Today the single biggest issue is that there are simply not many batteries available for their schemes because BEV batteries last a lot longer than the average man on the street thinks. Recycling with very good recover rates has already been demonstrated and proven by numerous pilot plants and studies to be both viable (cost effective) and scalable (really important that bit) but today other than the odd small volume plant, there simply aren't any batteries to recycle yet.......

You are not alone.

Between Death Valley and Vegas, there's always an EV that needs a tow to a charger somewhere.

In the North were I live by 35 below 95% are still on the road. The rest made it to destination.

​​​​@@TheBandit7613yeah I found one with a little Honda petrol generator charging himself on that stretch of Road😂😂😂😂

@@Bubbles12345-cat That made me laugh for real. I could picture it.

I like it. i-eel-TRONIC MAX...

Do eels eat crab shells I wonder? And if they do, what would we do with all the naked crabs?

​@@AutoExpertJC could we feed the crab meat to William's eels?

Nah feed the eels on vegan EV owners...

Get ride of the marxist politicians and the climate hoax pushers & fix the worlds problems

Do yourself a favor, Andy. Bugger all of what John says is educational. Most of it is just falsehoods when it comes to his relentless waffling against EVs. Anyone would think he was paid by Murdoch.

I was just about to say similar about a ‘bell-end curve’. You beat me to it. Excellent comment! 😂😂

That's the fun thing about evangelical beliefs though, no evidence needed! Just believe and it'll all be right on the night with your bell end at hand. The amount of 'Magical Thinking' and what I can only really call 'Divination' from some people believing that there will only be a good end to the technological innovation is kind of remarkable. It's gotten so sorcerous they may as well drag out the cock, sacrifice it and read his organs on a full moon or something. It'd be about as accurate

@@timhicks2154 "nurse, help - my bell-curve has become parabolic!"

@@tomparker5000 - a pairobollox?

Don't know about the curve, however, the bell-end descriptor does seem somewhat apt.

yeah, but if you are a builder?

I suspect you are correct. Imagine how much carbon we'll save when we're not allowed to leave the pods. Through the "hyperloop to the moon" into the equation and it'll be like heaven!

@@cameronjohnston5748technically you’re working from home just not yours! 😂

wouldn't it help the builder@@cameronjohnston5748

What if u arent a paper shuffler?

Absolutely. Here in NYC, contractors competed for the right to collect them from the streets. They were barged to several plants in the area for processing. You left out tallow, horsehair, mucilage, and animal feed. Nothing went to waste. There was never a horse cemetery, that's for sure

steam is more powerfull,,it doesnt get effected by altitude, as diesel , petrol, do.. steam was banned in favour of diesel, something to do with oil co,s,,maybe,,,??...

@@harrywalker968 boiling point of water IS affected by altitude, the higher you go the lower the temperature or the less energy needed and the less energy the steam has. ICE was simply better than steam engine,

Funny that the Muppets are talking about going back to steam engines (of sorts) in EVs. They conveniently forget where the electricity comes from to charge their EV batteries, which here in Australia is mainly coal fired powers stations used to drive steam turbines.

@@harrywalker968 Steam died because it was impracticable and in-efficient. People look back at steam railway engines with rose tinted specs and say "aren't they wonderful" but ask someone who actually had to use them for their work each and every day and they were incredibly pleased to move to a deisel loco! They could simply get to work 5 min before they were due to leave, start and drive off. unlike spending several hours getting filthy shovely coal, watering, lighting the fire, stoking and building steam required by an old external combustion steam engine. As the employers saw massively better reliability and hugely lower running costs, the change came quickly. Keeping an old steam engine was mostly comercial suicide, and once diesel locos became available in volume, pretty much every operator in the world swapped over as quickly as they could. Funnily enough, pretty much exactly the same thing is happening with the global electrification of our transport systems today..... ;-)

Like flat screen TVs and smartphones!

My apologies for being stung ….

This.

Ha ha that wouldn't last long 🤣

Don't ever change? I can confidently state that this comment was not written by one of John's ex-wives.

No wonder why countries like Australia suck if think he has any logic.

They'll have to take out a second mortgage (on both the family home and beach front holiday unit) just to pay their power bills.

That is on smaller scale. What would happen if all people come from work and start charging their EV-s? I imagine how power graphs start to look much like roller coaster ride.

You’re not. I know someone who does this with a Tesla model 3 and a Leaf. It’s nearly impossible for that family to keep both cars charged at home with three adult drivers. Doesn’t work. They don’t have a solution other than to fast charge the TM3 once a weekend before heading home from the shops

well, like the 80%+ EV efficiency tells us, they really are dumdums. why do i snag on the 80%+ efficiency claim? 80% of WHAT? they think that by merely removing the powerplant from the vehicle it makes it magically more green and forget all about the chugging coal powerplant miles away that itself is about 34% efficient. Suddenly that EV is using fuel that itself is only using 80% of efficiently, dont get me started on the charging, adding that ev ranges drop by 30% in the winter, add another 50% off for cabin heat. Headwind, a trailer or other load adding, like driving uptilt, and the motors start guzzling those delicious electrons, again cutting the purported range in half. there a reason we dont have BEV trucks, the range is dismal if you dont have solar (ie another 50K + the car) and are charging at charge points cos you live in an apartment complex where you dont have room to park your regular ice car, not to mention an EV with a charge point, the recharge cost will be near the same when just tanking petrol. It matters where you live and how rich you are, but to make an ev truly green it will take a lot more money than to just buy the damn thing, you'll need a house and some land, a solar system, a battery system(solar doesn't work at night) and a charging system and of course the car. so say 70K car, 50K solar, 10K batteries and charging, 200K for the house and land, totaling 330K for a "green" car that you can use to not haul your trailer.

Nobody has thought of that (no surprise there, really), but mandatory 1-vehicle per household limits will be imposed by unthinking legislative bodies and signed into law by unthinking presidents and prime ministers.

fossil fuels will one day be replaced completely by electrofuels (man made gasoline), but that won;t happen in our lifetime. Problem is, there is so much fossil fuels that are easily accessable for mining.

​@@Ozgrade3Hydrogen 🐵

@@monkeyonarock Hydrogen, well yes, it's a wonderful and viable fuel, just getting it is a problem. As John pointed out, obtaining Hydrogen the traditional way is a very dirty process. We need nuclear power for green hydrogen.

But that thinking is too complex for the lawmakers ie politicians.

The rochford copart which has photos and videos of their ice engine area currently on fire. Copart isolates EVs from ice cars for this reason. And it wasn’t the ev side that went up.

@@mathewrussell1533 I didn't say it was EVs that caught fire, I just replied to a comment asking where it was.

Just do more checking and you will find they are cars from car sharing companies that went bankrupt. Not what the click bait video pretend.

@@peterblenkinsop2985but they are still rotting away. I can’t see them being loaded onto a boat snd being shipped out anywhere

@@ukusanz I don't doubt that but they are not EV's being left to rot so China can claim lots of folk are buying EV's.

It also demonstrates the CCP's commitment to a healthy environment for its citizens, no??

@@markh.6687 In th eUK. What is the CCP?

or a dump truck,or trucks in general or the asphalt or medicine etc etc. there comes a line where you realize that these people are against humanity as a whole.

"Current" agenda. LOL.

The electric options for tractors are pretty limited above 100HP, hell even under 100 HP the options are limited. It will be a few years before the average machinery dealer ship has a normal sized electric tractor in stock. (Kubota and John Deere are the only mainstream brands playing with larger electric tractors. Still sub 300 HP equivalent from memory I think closer to 100 HP) If they can move mine dump trucks to electric, tractors should be feasible. (But that is a guess the cost of the needed batteries to run a large tractor are going to be pretty substantial) On top of this I doubt most farms are going to be able to draw massive amounts of power from the grid on top of existing needs. So yes it will be a lot of work to do (If it is feasible)

Maybe... you don't replace them? So what? Why does my washing machine at home work with an electric motor and not with a diesel combustion engine?

@@Tschacki_Quacki "Maybe... you don't replace them? So what? Why does my washing machine at home work with an electric motor and not with a diesel combustion engine?" what a truly brain dead answer. i reiterate, with this last comment as an example: there comes a line where you realize that these people are against humanity as a whole. and ill tell you "So what"- no food, no heat, no electricity, no EV-s- No Nothing you deranged mongrel barbarian you are sawing off the tree branch you yourself are standing on and are asking "So what" at the same time ffs Milk, meat, eggs and other good stuff come from the supermarket with guys like these. and electricity from the socket, tis Magic dontcha know. id tell You, buddy, to go to school, like you told me in another thread here instead of pointing out something wrong with the argument. But its way too late for you, you cannot go back to kindergarten, you are too old.

To many, facts are irrelevant. Unfortunately those types are dooming us all.

John is a prodigious prognosticator promulgating mistruths, poor information and outright made-up falsifications. His *endless* twaddle should just be ignored.

It's surprisingly docile compared to a lot of other places. For example I have a habit of leaving my wallet and phone on outdoor tables at cafes when I sit down, and when I went to Paris quite a few years ago I was constantly being reminded by the staff to not do that because it will get stolen.

That's nothing try do that in South Africa and you will end up dead in hospital

It helps when you're an island with a real border force. You can thank the Liberals and Tony Abbott for that.

The invaders come in by 747 jumbos these days

@@jackmorganfiftyfive I thought it was ScoMo who stopped the boats. He had the trophy in his office and everything.

Yeah, like recycling flour out of unused bread.

It's not particularly complicated and people already doing it. Today, the biggest problem is actually getting end-of-life BEV batteries in any volume as those batteries are not yet anywhere near end-of-life. I am working with several UK companies that are already buying all the available used batteries for second life storage projects (ie static electricity storage with ISO containers full of used BEV battery packs). These packs even at EOL for a pass car (typically 80% SoH) are massively valuable comodity!

@@maxtorque2277it is very complicated and dangerous. With demand almost doubling every year, recycling is not going to make the difference, unless they enlist the biblical JC for some miracle.

That's because Chinese laws are for political purposes only. Foreigners (YOU) are impressed by the law, while their citizens live in a poisoned environment. Laws are only enforced when officials don't like you

Check out what western companies achieve with battery recycling since decades.

You're suggesting a totalitarian government is the model we should adopt? These programs do one thing, they end up with stockpiling of dangerous materials rather than recycling. Just look at the Australian recycling schemes. We though we were recycling, until China publicly said no to accepting other countries' waste. They had enough of piling up other people's crap. Now what's happening with it? Go on, have a guess.

China has all sorts of laws. They only get applied if you upset someone that matters. Sure they will, seemingly randomly, clamp down on things when a bigwig comes to town but apart from that it's largely Rafferty's rules. Any law that requires their car industry must do something will be treated in the same way.

You obviously haven't followed the news about the Chines EV graveyard s where thousands of brand new ev's are just registered and dumped just so the company's can meet their government quotas.

er, yup, those calcs have been done, years ago. I started working on the elctricfication of passenger cars in 2003. Back then, i had to stand up and justify my reports to people like the head of reseach at BMW, not someone who takes fools easily. The maths and physics is quite clear and has been for at least 15 years! 50 litres of petrol holds 445 kWh of energy The largest mass produced passenger car battery is roughly 100kWh, ie 4 times smaller total energy storage. A Tesla model X is one of the most consumptive BEVs, by dint of it's large size (BTW, the mass of a BEV is largely irrelevant because the powertrain of a BEV is fundamentally bi-directional ,ie it can recover energy from that mass, whereas the mass of an ICE really matters because it cannot recover KE and refil it's fuel tank as you slow down!) returns over 100 miles per gallon equivalent energy consumption because it's powertrain is so efficient in comparison to that of an ICE powertrain. A typical BEV passenger car has MORE occupant and cabin space than an equivalent ICE model of comparable exterior dimensions because even with the poor (currently) energy density of existing battery energy storage systems, the huge power density of an electric motor, lack of requirement for a large and complex multi-speed transmission, and the lack of requirement for large and complex exhaust system (including emissions aftertreatment systems ie catalyst DPF, GPF etc) and much reduced cooling system requirement. Add in the package optimisation benefits brought by battery energy storage systems being solid state (no moving parts) and this is why a BEV makes better use of the available volume for a passenger car application

@@maxtorque2277 If the BEV is more efficient then why can't a BEV do 1000km on a full charge? Sounds like BS marketing that BEV's are more efficient, and after 1000km, how ling does it take to charge so I can finish my drive into the night? A ICE fills up in under 10 minutes that includes a pee stop at the service station.

@@robpinter5431 For the simple reason that current batteries are not nearly as energy dense as petrol. 1kg of petrol (roughly 1.4 litres) holds 13 kWh of energy 1kg of current tech batteries holds just 0.4 Wh A tesla model x with a 100kWh battery (one of the biggest batteries available in a bev car) holds the equivalent of just 14 litres of petrol! Put 14 litres of petrol in your car and see how far you can drive! At 40mpg, you'd get just 120 miles, and yet a Tesla Model X can do over 200 miles on the same amount of energy So BEVs are massively more efficient (over 3 times more efficient in the real world) but they currently can't go quite as far as a vehicle with an engine because current batteries are not (yet) as energy dense However, the fundamental maximum energy density for a battery is approximately 9 times greater than we can currently do with mass produced batteries. There are a lot of new batteries that have demonstrated they can realise much greater energy desity, but these are not yet commerically available. These new tech batteries are set to revolutionise battery energy storage in the future!

Not screwed, the high cost of energy will bring forward a proper economic response such as nukes, hydrogen and far better utility of existing energy sources. German industry and the people will discover reality, perhaps as earth as next northern winter

If you like numbers check out how much global lithium production grew from 2016 to 2018.

What would be better is NO MANDATING. Government needs to get the hell out of our lives. Nothing they push works. All they do is create 'new industries' engineered to extract more of our taxes. This is all just more wealth transfer. The whole premise is a lie to start with. Repeat a lie often enough, and sure enough a lot of semi-literate people believe it.

I am typing this reply on a PC that is powered by yesterdays sunshine (raining and cold here today in the uk ;-) ) and that energy was stored overnight in my garage by a second hand nissan leaf battery! I designed and built the system myself. Not very difficult or particularly expensive other than the battery cells themselves, which are in such high demand that a driven-into-a-lamppost-and-written-off Leaf is worth pretty much the same as one that you can actually use as a car......

Holdens are an issue thanks to Gm pulling the pin and selling off all their stock. It's great to get parts on 7 year old cars from ebay only.

I see the power grid as limiting factor. Plugging in (tens/hundreds of) thousands of EV-s to charge overnight should create large power spikes.

​@@SeersantLoom Besides the fact that the expansion of the power grid is happening since the first power pole what you are describing is already happening in many places and the grid doesn't care. You think the power providers would have a problem with selling more of their product? They are happy to provide everything to the grid to sell more electricity. We even have a proof for this. The Cryptomining hype from 2019 to 2021 consumed FAR MORE electricity than millions of EVs ever could. Don't know about your grid but my grid handled it perfectly. The power providers were selling all that electricity with a happy grin on their faces. Obviously... that's their business.

@@SeersantLoom not if they turn your ev charging off 😋

I've driven a BEV now for 9 years. Nothing at all has gone wrong with it, let alone with any of the BEV specific parts. No clutch to wear out, no gears to crunch, no exhaust to rattle or corrode, no water pump to leak, no fuel pipes to degrade, no cooling system to drip, no oil system to weap. The only significant wearing part (the battery) is covered by a longer warranty than that of an ICE powertrain and in fact, is pretty easy to remove and refurbish. In the UK, if you have an early model nissan leaf (famed for signifcantly worse battery degredation due to a lack of a battery conditioner system) you can today drive into a few specialists who in just two hours can diagnose (leafspy) remove, repair/replace, and refit that battery pack. The very simplicity of the powertrain makes that possible (take a look at the steps required to remove, refurbish and replace a hguely complex modern engine and the difference is obvious and stark. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--ySOspbt0BM.html

And cobalt. And manganese.

@@AutoExpertJC

I've watched some videos about the cobalt mines in Africa, its pretty nuts how dreadful the conditions are.

Virtuous tax dodgers don’t give a sh1t about that@@CarbonEternity

​@@CarbonEternity. Fortunately 1/2 the world's EVs have no cobalt or manganese. Increasingly they're moving away from these.

Do you know what must fundamentally lead volume in a capitalist society? yup, demand. High demand drives higher prices that drive investment in production volumes. Today lithium is in demand (worth noting that this element is being phased out of newer battery chemistries btw), the costs is climbing but right now there is HUGE investment in increased production. The reason a litre of petrol is cheap is because society has spent the last 100 odd years and investing billions in the extraction, refining, and logistics chain for this material......

@@maxtorque2277 and it's price is rising because new reserves require much more work to extract. It doesn't matter how much oil demand rises production can only grow so much. The same is true for lithium only that existing supplies are already close to maxxed out and all mines that are in development won't be able to meet the demand. BEV and lithium production will increase but the increase won't keep pace with demand and battery prices will trend higher. Like oil, when lithium carbonate prices reach a certain level more expensive extraction will become viable but these technologies aren't even scalable yet so barring a miracle will take at least an additional decade to come online and will take years still to start to meaningfully impact supply and price. Other battery technology that is suitable for stationary batteries may reduce demand somewhat and mitigate the issue but the projected demand is so far beyond projected possible supply that this won't fundamentally change the situation. Other metals are also facing supply constraints copper alone is also rising in price and the new mines coming online use a lower grade ore that is more expensive to refine which also pushes up prices. Economics works both ways, if supply physically cannot keep up, prices will rise. This is the case for lithium as well as other elements needed. The transition period will take a lot longer than many believe. It will happen but will take decades. True exponential growth can't happen beyond the point where a hard limit is reached and we're already approaching that limit.

@@maxtorque2277 also there is no viable replacement for lithium in vehicles. It's a basic fact of chemistry. Sodium batteries will always be heavier for the same capacity. Sodium is lower on the electrochemical series so it's maximum potential cell voltage is lower and it's heavier per Mol than lithium. Assuming they fix all the other current issues a Sodium BEV will be heavier with less range than a lithium BEV. Sodium, zinc bromide, redox and flow batteries may and likely will play a major role in stationary power in power walls, UPS systems and grid scale batteries but it's a fundamental limitation of chemistry that lithium based chemistries will always have an inherent advantage.

7 years old. Wow!! Please inform the Guiness Book Of Records

@@wizzyno1566 When a 7 year old car, is worth more than I paid for it new. That makes it very economical, as depreciation is the biggest cost when buying a new car.

​@@wizzyno1566my little Japanese Nissan Sunny is 23 years old and running like new

​@@Bubbles12345-cat23 years old is impressive. 7 years isnt.

​​@@SunRise-ul7koyou've edited your post to make it seem sensible. Well done. You never mentioned "holding its value" before. Bit of a dicks trick really.

Why would the _participation trophy winners_ want to get their feelings hurt by looking up facts that contradict their beliefs? So much safer for them to look at websites that agree with and confirm their preconceived notions.

They are mate, except for a few teething problems with just a few examples getting way more than the fair share of attention, due to novelty.

@@guringai What happens when 150,000,000 people get off work and go home, plugging their 240 volt,, 50 amp car charger in? (USA) The US doesn't have enough power in the grid for 10% of that. Where will it come from? The "switch" from ICE to EV's is being done by activists instead of engineers.

@@TheBandit7613 Then the available energy supply is rationed.

@TheBandit7613 The electricity networks & retailers are working on incentives for consuming power in the middle of the day when there is too much electricity in the market & generators are switched off. Our retailer allows this & we normally charge for the weeks ~350ks for under $4. This is normal in the UK too, & no doubt in many other parts of the world. I work in the energy industry & also study the engineers work - of those who actually operate the grid in Australia & they don't give a hoot what the activists reckon. They are just getting on with the grid upgrades.

@@TheBandit7613 The only realistic way to deal with that is to tank energy at the charging location which is trickle charged from the grid. But that is quite an expense to add on top of the car.

..computer says "no"...

It never will. Just like no smartphone ever had a battery run time like your old Nokia. But that doesn't matter. You simply stick with your Benz just like you still use your Nokia too. No problem.

@@Tschacki_Quacki A stupid comparison. They've gone from just a phone to a all encompassing device you use for all sorts of tasks. The EV only does what any other car will do. Just not as well. And you assume I only have one car. The ML gets to sit outside in the elements and go to carparks. The newer one not so. And I get four days from my Pro Max. So there's that too.

@@grantleyhughes Any other car can't drive gearless. Any other car can't give you instant torque. Any other car doesn't have a remote controlled HVAC system you can turn on anywhere, anytime. Any other car cannot be fueled with power from the roof. Any other car cannot be fueled with 10€ for 400km. Any other car cannot be fueled for free as a customer incentive. Any other car does not have brakes lasting for 150.000km. Any other car doesn't make it 100.000km without any major maintenance. Any other car does definitely not what EVs can do. The comparison is just as bad as EV vs. ICE cause EVs can do so much more that they are the overall better product, exactly like a modern mobile phone compared to a corded phone, despite having one or two disadvantages. That's exactly the point.

Mate, I, like many, drive our EVs all over the country.

Electric vehicles actually do make a lot of sense, the technology is currently sufficient but it is a valid point that we are nowhere near ready for them to be the only option. Our infrastructure was not designed for it and the lithium shortage is going to be a major roadblock.

​@@guringaihow many days does it take you to drive to Melbourne?

@@alanakafang6143 Could easily do it in one, but we normally stay overnight on the way when holidaying. Plenty of superchargers which are always working

There's nothing on the horizon as practical as ICE.

Why replace something that works?

Obviously, hover boards. The cold fusion powered ones.

We don't know what technological advancements might happen in the future. And the majority of predictions people try to make end up being wrong. Maybe someone will come up with new battery technology that enables EVs to take over. Maybe someone will figure out how to make ICE cars 2 or 3 times more efficient, and make it even harder for something else to replace them. Maybe someone will invent a completely new technology altogether. We won't really know unless/until it happens. Then all the armchair experts will show up to tell us they knew it would happen all along.

@@Knowbody42 why? Car emissions are not the problem..

And that assumes 100% of electricity comes from solar or wind. Where I live it's 90% coal in the evening and night when most people charge their vehicles. So if you are really disciplined and have solar panels you can break even at 60,000 km, but for most people it's heading towards 600,000 km.

@@ozmaniac101 Then we should all be saving gas by farting in a bottle.

We already have that. It’s called lead/acid worked great on the milk floats of the 1970s. (That’s all EVs are good for, local trips)

@@GadgetMart How fast did your milk float go and how far??? Fred Flintstone had lead-acid batteries. Li-Ion batteries were introduced for a reason, any idea why???? Duh.

@@GadgetMart lead acid doesn't compare in energy density per volume or per weight.

@@csjrogerson2377 plenty fast enough. You do realise 20mph speed limits are next?

@@Knowbody42 Yes I know. I’m taking the piss - however the smaller lighter and more energy dense you go. The nearer you get to a bomb. Fact

Not really.

No its not.

Gas powered ICE is still easier and better.

Hydrogen is generated from electricity and is inefficient

They have been trying hydrogen for over 30 years and can’t get it right and cost effective. It’s what car companies keep dangling and have been dangling so they have to do the least amount possible

I reckon pollypottydisarseters is better if you like word invention.

"Training, intekect and reseach"? hmm, what actual qualiifiaction does he have on this subject? I mean, i've watched some you-tube videos and i've googled "how to fly an airliner" so you'd be happy for me to be sat upfront in the pointy bit doing the flying next time you jet off on hols with your family right??? ;-)

Imagine the same story, but dogs and cats instead of lobsters and crabs...

Per mile driven an equivalent BEV has a LOWER tyre wear figure than for an ICE passenger car. This is because vehicle mass within the smalll bounds of passenger cars makes very little difference to wear rates, when wear rates are DOMINATED by tread slip wear and not rolling wear. In fact, if you are a keen driver and drive fast round bends, sorry to say that irrespective of the powertrain of your car, you are a very bad "tyre wear polluter" compared to someone who drives more sedately and yet i don't hear you-tube comments suggesting that boy-racers are a tyre wear pollution problem..... A BEV has much lower torsional vibration slip at it's tread/road interface because its powertrain is a continuous system. An engine uses pistons that create indvidual explosions to drive it along and this un-even torsional vibration leads to continuous micro-slip at a tread level that causes faster wear than for a BEV with it's near perfectly smooth tractive effort curve. And then we get to the real ace for a BEV, the speed and fidelity of it's tractive effort control. A typical BEV powertrain modulates drive torque around 1,000 times per second. Even the best fired (ICE) powertrains can only do this around 5 times a second at best. This means near perfect control of tyre slip in the real world. You are probably aware that a BEV performance car can out accelerate an ICE one, and yes this is because a BEV can have an enormously powerful system (1,000kW is pretty easy 🙂 ) but it is also because it can modulate that power so quickly it can keep the tyre perfectly on the optimum traction point. This "additional grip" over an ICE model is also reflected as less tyre wear, simply because less slip means less wear. Finally, tyres for BEVs tend to currently be lower wear compounds because they are also trying to minimise tyre hysteretics, ie the energy wasted in a tyre as the tyre carcase flexes as it revolves. "harder" and stiffer BEV tyre architectures lead to less wear. (of course, you could fit those same tyres to an ICE model, but people don't tend to do this) This data is all objective and can be, and is, measured by tyre companies and OEMs who these days are pretty dam hot on optimising these sorts of factors, but it is also borne out subjectively by the vast majority of BEV owners saying there BEV tyres last longer than for their equivalent ICE car

Problem with current bio fuel technology is to make 20l of petrol you burn 1l of oil, to make 20l of biofuel ethenol you burn 20l of biofuel. Not very efficient. If you're interested in the topic there is a great video on youtube about a Scottish company who rather than made biofuel from the byproducts of whiskey made whiskey from the byproduct of biofuel apparently it's more efficient and profitable that way.