+TGudda It was common with real nobility as well. Habsburgs being the most extreme example, but literally all nobility since Middle Ages until the revolutionary era (post-Napoleon) married their close cousins. GoT is based on and inspired by real historical events.
The show has an obvious mystical and medieval setting. During those times cousins marrying cousins, nephew/aunt and niece/uncle was common especially when the individuals didn't know they're related. Add to the fact that it's how the Targaryens roll makes me good with Jon and Dany hooking up. I've wanted them to end up King n Queen since the first couple seasons. Though I don't encourage those relationships in real life this show isn't real life and shouldn't be judged as such imo.
House Stark had a few aunt/nephew and uncle/niece marriages too, guys. Avuncular marriages weren't only a Targ thing. Dynastic sibling/sibling was like the Egyptians. Joanna and Tywin were first cousins, Ned Stark's parents were also first cousins. European nobility/Royalty did that a lot, too.
Dutch CA Serena Stark and Erick Stark. Lyarra Stark and Richard Stark. Richard Stark as in Lyanna,Benjen and Eddard father.They were not aunt and nephew but they were cousins that grew up together which i think is way worse. Jon and Dany don't know they are family,they didn't grow up together. Jesus Dany mom and dad were brother and sister,she even grew up thinking she was going to marry her brother Viserion.
Targaryens normally marry their brothers and sisters, so I don't think aunties and nephews would be a concern. And both have northern blood and both have Targaryen blood!
The whole aunt / nephew is not a problem. Even today in many countries it's legal ( including the Netherlands , Australia , Austria , Brazil and others ). The major religions are split on the subject. GoT is set in a culture equivalent to 14th century Europe where even the church was cool with it. Brother /sister nope . Cousins fine ( still is ), aunt /nephew, ok then but not now.
Seriously, what is this preoccuption with Dany being his Aunt???? In the context of this story........ who cares??!!! In merely "weirding out" on the scene so many people seem to be missing out on the beautiful nuance and complexity of the scene. For gods sake they're Targaryens! We don't impose our values on all the other shit that happened in this show but for this we do??!! Just don't get it!! What was brillant and beautiful about this scene was all the parallels between R&L and J&D. Despite their better judgement, timing and circumstances they love one another and act on it. And like R&L, J&D are going to have a whole host of conflict as a result!! The timing of Bran's narration was also so well executed...... "He's never been a bastard.." at the moment he's looking at Daenarys with such love but also such disbelief. Because of him being a bastard Jon's never thought himself worthy and he can't believe that he has just had the Queen of House Targaryen look at him with such love.... only for the irony being that he's THE heir.
Well their is a genetic aspect, that level of incest is super incest, its a good job Dany can't have children because they would be fucked up. If family having sex with family is a big taboo because it leads to genetic problems and sickly children. The most inbred person in history was a sterile freakishly looking individual.
Ralath Aka Defiant let me remind you that Jamie and Cersei are brother and sister and they had 3!! well children. And let me remind you that in a history of hundreds of years targaryens married their family members (Aegon and his 2 sisters) without any known affected children. Oh and by the way, I'm pretty sure that Dany is gonna get pregnant
Ralath Aka Defiant That's just one of those american protestant taboos. Yes continued inbreeding leads to genetic defects but even the child of a brother and sister will probably not have any issues, it happens as a result of doing it over several generations. Marrying cousins is still somewhat common and perfectly legal all over the world and marrying aunts with nephews is just slightly weirder because there's usually a considerable age difference, which doesn't happen in this case. If this is "super incest" then what do you make of Aegon I who married both his sisters, *at the same time*?
though lets be real his claim to the throne isnt much stronger. The targaryens lost the throne and therefor its a FFA to get it back. And yes Agree completely with u . I never got the weird factor of AUNTIE SEX!!! eeew. like they didnt grew up they are same age. and they are predispositioned for incest anyways as targaryens. (I also believe that if dany gets preggo its cause of both their magic overpowering the witchesbloodmagic And a small hope of me is also that Down the line Rhaegal and Drogon mate as well (maybe in mimicry to dany/jon) and produce new dragon eggs. and if anypne didnt know Dragons are genderless and can mate with any other dragon ^^.
When we saw him it was 17 before season 1 now season 7-8 is like 4-6 years after S1 so he will be a way older His Loyality to Starks is Massive he will show up in S8 with Meera by his side I hope
I'm calling it right now....next season when The Golden Company soldiers come to Westeros it will backfire on Cersei....I'm guessing they will be led by a certain person Dany left behind in Essos...
Daario is the leader of another sellsword company the Second Sons which is different from the Golden Company, the sellsword company Cersei was referring to.
Good theory! Though I'm not sure that Daario will be loyal to Dany. Jorah is unflinchingly loyal even as his love goes unrequited. I think Daario's loyalty was very much contingent on his sexual relationship with Daenerys.
"Would Arya really kill you?" - both of you at the same time "yes" "Arya was one of them" - both of you at the same time "is" lol, so awesome how you are so in tune with each other. Although technically she is no longer a Faceless Man in that she doesn't work for them. Doesn't mean she doesn't still have the training though.
In the actual Middle Ages, marrying within the family was very common. (usually with bad results after a couple of generations - King George, Kaiser Wilhelm and Czar Nicholas were all first cousins, and their lines all had hemophilia.)
People here are so prudish, Don t you people pick up history books, most monarchy are made by either cousins marrying cousins, uncles and nieces, and way back brothers and sister, it was the only way to keep the line pure. Dani can only have children by Jon. What's more important is if she'll survive childbirth or the coming season
I don't think he loves her, not romantically. But he probably feels very protective about her and doesn't really want her getting involved with anyone at this point in time with a war for the survival of all of humanity going on.
Now ive spent almost all of my weekend to watch your Got reactions. I want to sum it up with three words First is: Awesome Second and third is: THANK YOU
You guys are the truest, funniest reviewer on the web! The kind of peeps we'd like to watch the series with IRL. You guys complete each another so much as a couple, long live to you both :D Let's upvote this video and be eager to watch your next reactions!
The lore with Targaryeans is they marry their siblings. Brothers and sisters usually. This keeps the dragon bloodline pure. Dany thought she would eventually marry Viserys when he took the throne back in season 1. Drogo's marriage was just to get an army.
Remember the comet from early in season 2? Osha told Bran the comet meant dragons. The Night King would have been able to see the comet and known what it meant.
Follow me here -- Remember back to episodes 1 & 2 in season 1. Remember the red comet in the sky? Some call it the 'Dragon's Tail' and everyone in Westeros, Essos or beyond the wall would have seen it. The Night King probably knew what it meant and almost right away started moving his army to The Wall and adding to his army. I truly think the Night King was playing the long game once he saw that comet return after a thousand years.
I'm not one to say 'belong together', or 'destined', I love them and moreso see it from the angle of what they are. They are Targeryeans, Aegon the conquerer was married to Queen Rhaenys and Queen Visenya, both were his sisters. Aegon the unworthy was married to Queen Naehrys, his sister (although that story is complicated by Aemon the Dragonknight who loved Naehrys and joined the kings guard to protect her, and was in fact her other brother). Jon and Daenerys are not siblings, their Union is tame by Targeryean standards and even practiced in a couple of occasions in the Stark and Lannister lineages (not talking about Jaime and Cersei). But even more important than all the things I could tell you about the Targeryeans, the marriage practices of the great houses of westeros, or any other mega nerd territory information, they did not grow up together. They did not meet until Jon came to dragonstone. They will never see each other in the way one would expect them to if they had lived in our world and known each other all their lives. They are two people who met as strangers and fell in love over a prolonged period of time, the same as any other organic relationship, and certainly preferable to the ubiquitous use of arranged marriages in westeros (case and point being Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannisters toxic marriage). In truth this makes things slightly easier in the long run (although of course any of them could die in season 8). Jon may have bent the knee, but he is still the lord of Winterfell and her warden of the north, the north being the largest and wildest of the seven kingdoms, only through Jon may she bring the north truly to her side. On the other hand, looking at it from the angle of Jon being 'Aegon Targeryean' and the heir to the Iron Throne, this fixes the problem of claim that may have arisen quite easily, they simply rule together, the last dragons, just as Aegon the conqueror and Rhaenys and Visenya did as the last dragonlords of the blood of Old Valyria. Holy shit this is a long comment.....
The interesting part will be Jaime going North is that he might have to face Bran for the first time since episode 1 and he is the Kingslayer, the murderer of Dany's father. I wonder if there will be any consequences from that.
I like how ya'll were worried about Tyrion, but I wasn't worried. She's got something bigger and more awful planned, I'm sure of it. She doesn't believe the Northern threat will affect her. AND I think she played Tyrion with the pregnancy thing, too.
Sooooooooo many greats all together!!! 13:26 YESSSSSSSS!! Both Lannister men called Cersei's bluff...and won!! ''...and thus he became...Queenslayer!'' Love you two and loved sharing every episode with you! Please pick up Walking Dead when it comes around!
I mean she's his aunt. that's once removed. I didnt mind the idea of a Targaryen baby. Next season will be hella interesting with him finding out his true lineage, among everything else.
Ugh. You know that Targaryens are famous for marrying blood relatives (Siblinbling to sibling and such), right? So in the context of the show and the universe/setting its taking place in, its actually somewhat normal.
Exactly! I'm rooting for them now because a Targaryen "alone in the world is a terrible thing" (Maester Aemon). Spare a thought for Daenerys though: finally heading North in six inches of Snow!! ;-)
It was a trap! You two knew right away that the Night King needed a Dragon to get through the Wall so they set a trap and waited basically until Danny and her dragons to come so they could kill one. Well done you two! It's the first time I've heard someone other than me, lol, get it right from the beginning. Cheers, Timothy Eddard Stark (Yes, that's my real name)
I've waited seven years to see that wall come down and that shit was glorious. Only thing that MIGHT have been better was littlefinger getting read for seven years worth of sins and treachery.
Great recap. Thanks. I'm following the theory that Euron will be the one who chokes the life from Cersei, Remember, he has two hands (Jamie only has one hand and can't wrap his hands around anyone's throat). Thanks again.
It really doesn't matter if Cersei is really pregnant because when she was a girl that lady told her all her children will die. So thats why she really can't kill her brothers because she can't pass on the bloodline, They can.
The Nightking did have greensight but not as strong as brans. he could mostly only predict what could happen. If he could fully see the future he would've known Arya would've switched hands on him.
Let's not forget it has been mentioned the Targaryans were an inbred family. Although Dany says she can't have children, I'm guessing that Family is so inbred the females can only become pregnant by a family male so... which is the norm for them! Incidentally, has anyone watched the extras disc which explains this (last one in the box)?
Good Job on that call :) I am bowing to you ... You guys are hilarious "No No No Jon we have the truth... You know he can't hear us right??? hahahahahahaha.... Great reactions as always... Thank you for a great season guys... See you in 2 yrs
I'm not sure his claim does supersede her own though. She's the daughter of The Mad King, he's The Mad King's grandson. She's 100% Targaryen, he's 50%. She's also the one with the dragons, which is what their entire House/Lineage/Sigil is based on.
True, but as the only living son of the crown Prince, this throws the succession into question. As tradition holds, he would be the next king if the Targaryens had continued ruling. But Rheagar died and his marriage to Lyanna wasn't known, so both Visarys and Dany would step in if Jon's legitimacy was questioned. It really comes down to which rules would get followed by the Lords. Crown Prince's son or King's daughter?
Targaryens did this as a rule of thumb and, to be fair, they don't know. I don't know what will happen when they find out...I don't think she will be as affected as him. After all, she thinks she is alone in the world and here is another of her kind and one she is in love with, but Jon wasn't raised with the expectation of incest like she was. It could very well cause him to pull away from her. But what if she DOES get pregnant. He always said he wouldn't allow for his child to be a bastard and he truly does love her.
As much as I hate myself for saying this, it's not weird if Daenerys got pregnant form her nephew. Targaryans brothers and sisters have been wed to each other for 17 generations if I remember correctly. Even the mad king was married to his sister, the king before him, and etc..
The Night King didn't have to be the 3 eyed raven. He's most likely a greenseer, and that's probably what you meant. A greenseer is rare, and the Night King is ancient, so he's pre-3ER.
There are some places even today that allow aunt/nephew and uncle/niece marriages. It even has a name, an avuncular marriage. Also, it's interesting how GRRM sets up parallels among characters, especially Dany and Cersei, taking almost the same actions, but one character is a hero and the other a villain for doing almost the same thing. It challenges the audience members to examine their own view of ethics and morality. For example, to save her own life, Dany gathered all the leaders of the Dothraki in a house of worship and burned it down, and Cersei did the same thing. Cersei and her brother are lovers, and Dany and her nephew are lovers. What makes us cheer one of these characters and not the other? And, why do different audience members view/judge the actions of the characters differently? (Some people DID cheer Cersei for burning up the Sept, especially the High Sparrow.) The genius of Game of Thrones lies in raising questions like these.
Doesn't really matter at all what the Targaryen practice is, or the historical precedent in Westeros, or even that they were ignorant of their family tie...all that matters is whether it goes against Jon's moral compass (and we all know he's got a serious moral compass), or Dany's. Jon could very well pull back for moral reasons. Dany, I think, will be far more concerned about the legitimacy of her claim to the Iron Throne crumbling to dust...and you just know one or more of her advisors is going to suggest that a dead Jon puts her in the game again. So, like Tyrion looking troubled in the hallway, I'm watching a whole bunch of people take their eye off the ball... Great reaction video, btw.
It's going to be interesting to see how many reactors are freaked out by Dany and Jon. I just looked it up on Wikipedia that Ned's mother and father were cousins. I think Jon will be a little disturbed about it when he hears. I think Dany will be more concerned that he has a stronger claim to the Iron Throne. It's definitely going to be a unique source of conflict next year.
You know that Targaryens are known to have relationships with relatives, right? It's their thing... Even Dany's parents are 2 Targaryens. So it's not that weird for them...
The Night King is as old and psychic as they come, and unlike Bran, isn't new to these things. He did indeed set a trap to get a dragon, and didn't allow his wights to attack that 'Magnificent Seven' until he knew that the dragons were almost there. The wights could pass through the wall (already happened) but the White Walkers and Night King couldn't.
I can't say, write, enough good things about you guys. Your reactions are great. I'm glad you are doing a couple more of my favorite shows. The Walking Dead, and Stranger Things.
I don't see how Jon and Dany is such a big thing honestly. They are the same age, they didn't grow up together. They've been growing in different families, on different continents... so what, they happen to share a tiny bit more genes than the rest of the population, does that make it gross? I think the Jamie-Cersei relationship is much more gross, considering they've actually grew up together, and in the books, it's actually said that they... explored each other bodies very young. Jon and Dany are both adults that just happen to not know that they are related. Royal families in history weren't that different, and often much worse. Does that make it alright? Well, it's an awkward turn of fate, but that doesn't make it -gross- enough to be like "Nooooooooo" lol. It not like if Dany was with Aeris, or Jon with Lyanna. Other than that, I loved your reaction to Baelish's death, it was priceless.
I'm sure The Night King already knows how this ends I'm sure he knew about Dany coming to save Jon even before they were born. He's exactly like Bran except he's kinda sorta evil.
Sansa already had a plan in the making to overthrow Baelish since episode 1 of this season when she said 'I know what he wants' to Brienne as Baelish walked away
