I think that they key to understanding Eowyn, and indeed all of the characters is the interplay of hope and despair. We meet three characters that have given into despair, Theoden, when we first meet him, Denethor, during the siege of Gondor, and Eowyn, Gandalf pulls Theoden out of his, but Eowyn and Denethor succumb to their despair and seek death. Denethor finds it and Eowyn almost does. Eowyn's great victory is not iwon on the fields of battle, but in the houses of healing.
I think you did miss some notes when it comes to Eowyn. We're so used to authors glorifying the "strong" fighting woman (strong merely because she is willful and fights) that it may be hard to recognize what Tolkien is doing here. He fought in WWII. He knew how awful war and killing is even though it is sometimes necessary. If you read carefully, you'll see that Eowyn wasn't healthy. Read carefully the part about her healing and what Saruman says to Theoden at Isengard. She went to war out of despair. Grima had been whispering words of degradation to her. She had no hope. She watched her brother fall out of favor and the king, her uncle, descend into a vegetable state. She lost her cousin Theodred. It is implied she thought her country and lineage were degraded and lowly. She wanted an out, to do something big and be a part of something worthy. It was all based on lies and a faulty perception of her own heritage. We can see that she is healed, body, mind, and soul, because she now wants TO heal. She is at peace with herself and not needing the famous guy to like her to take her away from her perceived situation or make her worthy. Also, Faramir is a wonderful man, quite the catch himself. He has keen insight into her pain because of what he has been through. Last note, Arwen and Eowyn are not from the same place. Arwen is a high elf from Rivendell, and Eowyn is a human from the kingdom of Rohan. Aragorn told Eomer, king of Rohan that he gave the kingdom of Gondor the fairest thing in his realm, Rohan. No shade at all to Arwen. Thanks for filming your reactions, so fun to watch! Tolkien gets hate for not enough women in his books, but the women he writes are top tier.
Also, Arwen and Aragorn are cousins, some 50 generations removed. Arwen's father, Elrond, was the twin brother of Elros, Aragorns ancestor and first King of Númenor. Both being Half-elven, they were given the choice of living as an Elf or a man. Elrond chose Elven life, and Elros chose to live as a man so that he could receive The Gift of Eru Ilúvatar, the god of Tolkien's universe. The gift was mortality. Also, the twins were descendants of the Maia (Angel) Melian. That's some pedigree.
Whatever were Eowyn's motives, her actions on the battlefield were worthy of the legends. There is no other way to look it. According to Tolkien, Eowyn was indeed a classic female warrior. Not a desperate woman seeking for death. Tolkien first thought of making Eowyn "a stern Amazon woman" but softened the view later. So he made Eowyn as "Though not a 'dry nurse' in temper, she was also not really a soldier or 'Amazon', but like many brave women was capable of great military gallantry at a crisis." I wonder why some people want see Eowyn as a suicidal "unhealthy" person because she has doubts, sorrows etc and when she meets a man she gets away of those "unhealty" ideas. Almost every main character has doubts, sorrows and hopelessness and they all find comfort in each other. Be they men or women. This is one central theme of the book. I don't know why Eowyn would be an exception and somehow a "unhealty" character who needs to be healed of these "wrong ideas".
@@x-wing8785but it's explicitly stated multiple times that she was indeed seeking for death, for example: "A young man, Merry thought as he returned the glance, less in height and girth than most. He caught the glint of clear grey eyes; and then he shivered, for it came suddenly to him that it was the face of one without hope who goes in search of death." (The muster of Rohan; Eowyn is disguised as Dernhelm here). And even after the battle when she's in the houses of healing, she still wishes for death in battle and doesn't want to be healed: "And it is not always good to be healed in body. Nor is it always evil to die in battle, even in bitter pain. Were I permitted in this dark hour I would choose the latter" (The Steward and the king; Eowyn is talking to the Warden of the houses of healing). I don't exactly understand what you mean by "unhealthy/wrong ideas", if you mean wanting to die in battle and having no hope, then I think we can agree that it isn't exactly healthy or good for anyone. Other characters of course also had doubts and sorrows, and some of them risked their lives constantly, but none of them WANTED to die (for example, Frodo thought he was going to die trying to destroy the ring and he was still willing to try his best, but he never desired death, he just accepted it as something inevitable near the end). Whereas Eowyn seeks for death even after she did her great deed (killed the Witch King) and she wishes she would've died in battle as Theoden did. Eowyn didn't have any hope in her life for many years and even after the battle is won she still has none. And after Eowyn has been "healed" both in body and soul she found peace, happiness and hope again, so I really don't understand what's wrong with that. Also I don't really get what's wrong with her not wanting to be the shieldmaiden and fight in battles anymore, especially considering that the war was over at this point, there was no battles to fight anyway... In the end, I think Eowyn was a great character and I completely agree that her actions on the battlefield are worthy of the legends.
@@user-hi1kl6pd4o I wrote the words "unhealthy/wrong ideas" in quites. If you read the first comment (which contains quite a lot of incelism) you will understand my answer to it.
One reason the book mentions Aragorn noticing and pitying Eowyn is to make her apparent death more poignant. Her despair made her suicidally brave. After Aragorn healed her, and she spent some time talking with Faramir, she stopped despairing, and her need to prove herself in battle (if any further proof were needed) disappeared.
I think that the reason for Aragorn's attention was simply that Tolkien originally planned the romance between Aragorn and Eowyn. He just abandoned the idea but left references to it in the book. The love of one is the loss of another.
One of my favourite scenes in the text is in the chapter Three's Company [from memory], when a fox thinks to itself how strange to see three hobbits asleep out of doors. It is a momentary picture, and is never mentioned again. Tolkien writes later that he regretted leaving it in as it was the last remnant of the childrens bedtime tale that still lingered, and he deemed it ill suited to his overall theme, after the fact. I just love the momentary glimpse of the father and his children as he discovered more details of his invented world. Forgive me, whenever JRRT is mentioned i wax lyrical..
Unlike his brother Boromir, Faramir didn’t love battle and deeds of heroism for themselves but merely as a means to an end. Eowyn realizes after her battle and wounding that although she thought that she felt like Boromir she was actually more like Faramir. That’s an act of growth, maturity and wisdom rather than of self betrayal.
Bombadil? Oh, no he just lives there. XD ---------------------------------------- On Eowyn Tolkien is a smidge notorious for having trouble writing women (though not for lack of trying), so if her story comes across as being a bit disjointed then it's probably because of that. But what's going on, as I understand it, is that Eowyn was already basically drowning in sorrow by the time Aragorn enters her orbit. Hence why he describes her as being "cold". Her cousin had recently died, her uncle was withering and their kingdom was at war. Her only desire was to go forth and do _something_ noteworthy. So when Aragorn, a handsome and mysteriously but clearly powerful lord on a mission of grand importance, comes into her orbit she latches onto the idea of romance and adventure as was to be found in the epics of her people. Then her remaining family leaves to go and fight, leaving her in charge of their country (which was still under attack) in their absence. A duty which she doesn't want. And when she tries to go with Aragorn and he refuses her it's sort of the final straw at which she decides "Sod it! I'll go and find my own glory, and probably my death as well" and gave Merry a lift while she was at it. And she does find the battle and great deeds she went looking for, but is nearly mentally and physically destroyed in the process. Partly because as far as we're told that was the first time she's fought, partly because her state of mind was already fairly morbid and partly because she took on the enemy's most dangerous player/weapon in almost single combat. Her decision at the houses of healing represents a shift in world view. From one in which worth was measured in battle prowess and glory to one in which worth is found in peaceful works and war is only an occasional necessity, a philosophy that Faramir himself lives by. Her getting together with him is sort of an extension of that, plus the author wanting to give them both a happy ending. ---------------------------------------- Sorry for the long post. I hope you're having an excellent day.
I wish this had been this clear to me when reading the novel lol. I have no problem with Eowyn's character development leading to her wanting to live in peace. My main issue is that both her shift in perspective and her relationship with Faramir feels very sudden. I wish we had gotten a slower and clear progression to where we find her at the end.
As a Tolkien fan in his late 70s, I'd like to point out that there have been any number of social revolutions in the role of women in society and the relations between men and women since Tolkien wrote LOTR in the 1940s and early 50s. Tolkien was a pretty enlightened man for his time, but in the end he was a product of the society he lived in. In particular, Tolkien never could integrate the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen into the main story in a way that satisfied him, so he relegated their romance into an Appendix. And you can regard the Tale of Faramir and Eowyn as the story of two damaged individuals helping each other heal. OK, I'll retire to my bomb shelter...
Absolutely! For its time, LOTR is fairly ahead of its time. From a modern perspective however, I do wish we had gotten more clear stories of the women.
@@thecanuckbooknook why? It’s a story about war. There are no regiments of women even today. I think you have been prejudices by your educators. Women have been writing books as long as men have. Henry VIII’s wives wrote books on scripture and doctrine. This notion that women didn’t exist until 2010 is ludicrous. Read the Silmarillion the first Leader of Men was a woman named Haleth. There is also a wife abuse story and an incest story in Tolkein’s writings. The Valar are evenly split between male and Female. The false mantra of inclusivity is really just a sexist and racist trope.
@@thecanuckbooknook I will say this the Three greatest Monarchs of the UK were women Elisabeth I, Victoria and Elizabeth II. Also the longest Ruling.. All three expanded the Empire after the decline of their predecessors. But somehow women seem to Ignore them as if they didn’t exist. There was also Isabella of Spain who led armies to drive the Moores out of Europe and financed the Exploration of the New World. America was Pioneered by women who often lost their lives defending the homes. We are not better than our predecessors. We have been blessed by their courage and determination.
@@thecanuckbooknook not everything needs to be scrutinized through the eyes of modernity the real test of literature is in its re telling and re publishing, Not how many men or women were in which roles. Sadly the writers of your generation seem relegated to condemnation of the past trying to rewrite old tales to include themselves. I doubt few of your have the skill to write modern novels that will satisfy the critics of their generation. Tolkien’s whole stated intention was to write of a prehistorical time not a tale of the 21st century. In real life women in the military never see combat until the men are over run and only as a last resort. Which was the case in the Soviet Union when women served in combat against the invading Germans in places like Stalingrad. But in modern terms only the Israelite Defense Forces put women on the front line. And we know how your generation feels about out Israel. Disney has turned out flop after flop trying to make super hero’s out of Women and turn Star Wars Galaxy into a Matriarchy.
At 7:38 you ask, "Has Legolas been here the whole time?" Yes--he was introduced just before Boromir: "There was also a strange Elf clad in green and brown, Legolas, a messenger from his father, Thranduil, the King of the Elves of Northern Mirkwood." I got rather lost at the Council of Elrond the first time through; it gets easier with rereading, especially if you have waded through the Appendices that follow The Return of the King.
Tolkien's tombstone reads "Beren" and his wife's reads "Lúthien". In _The Silmarillion_ Beren and Lúthien tell her father Thingol of their desire to marry, but he demands that to prove his worth Beren must retrieve a Silmaril (a living jewel) from the iron crown of the dark lord Morgoth. As Beren sets off on this virtually hopeless quest he composes a song in honour of Lúthien: Farewell sweet earth and northern sky, Forever blest, since here did lie And here with lissom limbs did run Beneath the Moon, beneath the Sun, Lúthien Tinúviel More fair than mortal tongue can tell Though all to ruin fell the world And were dissolved and backward hurled Unmade into the old abyss, Yet were its making good for this -- The dawn, the dusk, the earth, the sea -- That Lúthien for a time should be!
About two hours ago, I just finished reading Return of the King for the first time and had no idea what to do with myself. I then went to yotube and was pleasantly surprised to find this video. On top of giving me something to do---I was very happy with your commentary because of how I had pointed out and wrote down in my notes similar things that you talked about!! Things like Sam absolutely despising Gollum was hilarious, Pippin messing with some random kid at Gondor, Elrond cutting off Bilbo in the council of Elrond, etc! Another thing was that I grew up with the LOTR movies because my brother was always a fan of the world of Middle Earth, and so seeing someone be unsure if Gandalf was alive, or Aragorn being in love with Arwen---all these things were just stuff that I knew before going in, and so watching this was so interesting in a whole other way. On top of all that, Sam is also my favorite character! So seeing you point out stuff he did and slowly falling in love with his character more and more was fantastic. Thank for making this video, for I think it was very well done!
I'm so glad you liked it! That's exactly why I made this video: so people who had read the books could read them for the first time again vicariously through me, and so people reading the books for the first time felt vindicated in their reading experiences!
Galadriel is Arwens Grandmother and Elrond is Aragorns Uncle 16 times removed at least. Aragorn is Descended from Elronds Brother Elros, wh chose mortality. Arwen and Aragorn are 1st cousins.
ive read the books 20 odd times...I stopped reading because the parts I really like are so ingrained that I simply have to think of it...like a movie playing in my head...then the movies came out...seen them 20 odd times...now I watch reactor's...love seeing how many people react to the parts that really get to me...
From what I understand about Eowyn, she though she could only be important or worth through battle, she underappreciate her own sacrifies that was to stay with Theoden (her uncle that she love like a father) during the warmtongue era, she fear a cage the most and even that she stay for her people and for her uncle, the reason she has a crush on Aragorn is because he is a brave warrior that helped them with the battle, she went because she was desperate, even that. I love her beacuse she take Merry, because she understand him ❤, the thing that make her great was that she kill the king of Angmar trying to protect her uncle (not beacuse of the glory), but after all of that she was more depressed because she thought that she could only be happy as a warrior or with Aragorn, but she undersand there are more things than war and thats why she choose to live and to heal the world I was angry too when I first watch the movies because I want her to stay with Aragorn 😂, and I understand why that end about her being a healer was dissaponting to you. but after analize everything it makes sense with Tolkiens work, because for the people that live a war somethimes die is easier than live because of the trauma, and being a healer is a great honor in that book, thats why elves and Aragorn are healers 😊
This was such a delight to watch! I've known the story so long that it's wild seeing someone react to it for the first time. I haven't read the books since I was a teenager and now I want to reread
Since you like books with dogs in them, I'd like to bring Jack London's books into your attention. However, they are usually set in the wild, so there are some violent fights in them, so if you can't stand these puppies getting hurt, steer clear of them, even though I found them amazing when I read them as a kid. However, for me Tolkien is at the top, since I started reading him. About the Eowyn bit, I think Tolkien wanted to show that even though great deeds in battle can become legendary, at the end of it all there's no real glory to be found in war, the real meaning of life is living it in peace, healing not destroying, which the youthful and impetuous Eowyn came to realise, only after getting what she initially sought for. It's one of Tolkien's most important themes throughout his writing, as shown in some of Faramir's words: "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." It's a difficult balance to inspire people's heroism and bravery in the darkest hours of war, while not glorifying war itself, portraying it as a sometimes inflicted upon evil towards the path to peace "So do all who live to see such times, but it's not for them to decide" This overarching theme in Tolkien's works also ties often with people's eternal struggle to overcome greed, arrogance, envy, vanity and fear of death. This also plays a role in Eowyn's arc imho. In the end, I do understand that as a woman yourself, you'd have liked to see her keep that badass attitude till the end and some other character fulfill that Tolkien role if necessary, but alas, that wasn't for you to decide 😂 In the end, Tolkien did write through a lens of a previous era and wrote about several female characters, some of which were more powerful than most men, but he always gave them powers of creation, wisdom, healing and protection, never geared towards aggression, which I believe he considered it a strength and not a weakness.
Those are some excellent points about Eowyn, and I definitely agree that there are different kinds of strength, not just physical. However I did still feel like Eowyn's shift was very sudden. We see this desire for peace over action in Arwen and if Eowyn was going to have a shift in perspective I wish it had been slower and over a wider period of time
But note that when Faramir asks Eowyn to marry him, she says yes with no reservations. She does not say: "I am sure my brother the king will permit it." When Eomer announces the engagement, he says; "and she grants it full willing." He does not say: "And I permit it." Eowyn is free to marry who she wants. That is not the case for the royals of today. I really enjoyed this video. Thanks.
The appendices include a pronunciation guide... which is a bit late if you've already read the books. At least when I was young I correctly guessed that Elvish names such as Celeborn and Gildor have hard consonants.
Bless the algorithm! This was such an enjoyable video. As a fan of LOTR books and movies, it is always fun to watch someone experiencing and getting wrapped up in this world. I'm sure you're find your second run even more enjoyable. And yes, The Appendices are a must if don't want to be too lost).☺
Gandalf was dead. He got better. Healing is better than killing. That's what Éowyn decides. The tale of Aragorn and Arwen is told in one of the appendices. It's the one that was left in even in editions where the others were omitted, so it was regarded as important.
I think Tolkien's writing of Eowyn was as the broken woman so steeped in the glory[-of-war lore and burdened with the poisoned words (metaphorically) of Wormtongue that she decides to go to war as a symptom of her depression. The healers and Faramir cured her, and so she decides to put her efforts into becoming a healer afterwards. But, as someone who has read LotR many, many times, I have no problem with the modern reading of Eowyn as badass. That's how I read it at first, and I eventually had to have Tolkien's intention (the above paragraph) explained to me. And I still don't buy it. Eowyn is the hero of Pelennor Fields, killing the most powerful foe we actually meet in the trilogy (with a small assist from Merry). I don't mind her changing professions afterwards because she went face-to-face with the worst villain in the series, and although she won, war leaves scars both physically and mentally. She wasn't only traumatized by her battle with the Witch King and his beast, but also she was there when the man who was basically her father, lay there dying. Oh, and when Aragorn said "the fairest" in the kingdom, he was referring to the Kingdom of Rohan rather than Gondor. It's also something a king would say in public. I can see shipping Aragorn and Eowyn, but I think that Aragorn and Arwen makes more sense. Although Tolkien doesn't go into it in the book, Aragorn grew up in Rivendell and he spent a lot of time with Elrond's family. He and Arwen would have known each other for decades. Finally, there was foreshadowing that Aragorn and Arwen were in love. It's extremely subtle, but it was there.
11:15 "Boromir has already died. It definitely seemed like something bad was going to happen to him, considering how" ... they cast Sean Bean to play him in the film? : )
I know you are a book reader, but you might be interested to watch the Trilogy (extended) and see what changes were made to modernise it and also to render it into a screenplay. I think you would like it.
This was awesome. Really enjoyed your reactions. I read it for the first time in 2010, and I strongly disliked it. Three years later, I had an unexpected desire to read it again. On that second reading, I fell in love. Now I’m one of those folks who revisit it every year or two.
There's a lot of pettiness and smack talking in Middle Earth. One of my favorites is from the Silmarillion: "[Tulkas] was of no avail as a counselor." (meaning: Boy, that dude was dumb as a brick) Another one I like is when Gimli says to Eomer: "You speak evil of that which is fair beyond the reach of your thought and only little wit can excuse you."
Awesome, i read Lord of the Rings for the 1st time when I was 15 and when the movies came out I went to see them with my friends. As a New Zealander I would admit we all watched them with a certain amount of pride
Aragorn is not old for a Numenorian. Sam is 17(?) years younger than Frodo, and 30 is still barely adult for a Hobbit. Tolkien is telling an ancient saga, it’s like writing a “period piece”. I’m excessively into the lore… but not enough to read all the histories! Only to read LOTR at least 20 times. Oh…
It’s odd to me that you keep rereading the line or Aragorn’s thoughts when he first saw Eowyn. I don’t see attraction or interest in them personally. To me it was like an older person who has seen some stuff looking at a cold, jaded youth. Perhaps some pity or interest in what made her so “cold” at such a young age. That was always my interpretation anyways. And his calling her the fairest thing from Rohan seems like the kind of bs a king would say to another ruler, even if it were false (not that it necessarily was in this case). Just seems like political shmoozing to me. But glad you overall read and enjoyed the books and fell in love with Sam like the rest of us!
I fell in love with Tolkien and Middle Earth as young teen and have read all his works countless times over the course of almost 5 decades at this point. It makes me smile that you have almost lost patience to tackle the 1/2 million word text. The words/names are what hooked me from a linguistic point of view. I was also born in a (York)Shire irl, and feel an emotional connection at many levels. ''It is funny and tedious'' Yes, it suffers from (in Tolkiens own words) ''errors or omission and inclusion''. In the end, the story itself became too big and too detailed for the mind of one man to contain, and Tolkien was never fully satisfied; had he the time, he would have simply continued to write forever, changing details as he better honed the tale I would recommend re-reading the story a few times to get the names to sink in and stick. The names are the key.
Thank you for letting me know I was not the only one confused when the first movie came out. I had read the books way back in the early 80's, then reread them before we took our children to watch the first movie. I never read the Appendices and for some reason I completely confused Arwen and Eowyn. When we took our children the 130 miles to the theater and watched Fellowship of the Ring I had no clue about Arwen. After watching the movie when we got back home I had to reread the books and realized I had completely overlooked Arwen and had in my mind used Eowyn's name. Also when you talked about the Hobbits return to the Shire is the only disappointment I have in the movies. Even thought JRR Tolkien said the Hobbits return to the Shire is the most important part of the whole story, Peter Jackson left over 95% of their return out of the movie. In Jackson's movie the Shire is as how it was when the Hobbit's left the Shire. Don't get me wrong I Love the movies and believe Jackson did a good job making the movies, but I Love the books better.
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who got confused haha. I still haven't watched the films yet but that is disappointing to know that the return to the shire is not the same. I loved that part of the novel.
Eowyn seeking glory in battle is not a You Go Girl moment. In Tolkien, those who are wise do not seek war for the sake of glory. Faramir calls it out to Frodo. Eowyn's problem is that she only wants to go to war because she can see nothing else worth living for. Her problem is solved when she meets Faramir, not because she'll put away weapons and become a demure wife, but because she now has something worth living for. P.S.: I see now that the comments have already covered this.
I don't understand why every time Eowyn comes up, countless commenters feel the need to downplay his role. Tolkien would not have written Eowyn to kill the Witch King and his wyrm if he didn't want to emphasize Eowyn's heroism. Even though Eowyn had lost hope she was definitely a heroine. That's what Tolkien intended her to be. There is no other way to look at it. It definitely was Tolkien's "you go girl moment" if you want to call it so. Tolkien just wrote her as a more multi-dimensional character than what we are used to seeing today. This perhaps expands a bit more on her character and motives: “My friend, you had horses, and deed of arms, and the free fields; but she, being born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man, whom she loved as a father, and watch him falling into a mean dishonoured dotage; and her part seemed to her more ignoble than that of the staff he leaned on." -Gandalf to Eomer. So, for a long time, Eowyn had to watch from the sidelines as Theoden fell under Saruman's spell, Wormtongue wreaked havoc at court, and the Orcs ravaged the lands of Rohan and she was not allowed to do anything about it because she was a woman. You can imagine how infuriating that must be. In other words, she thought that if she has no value at home, she might as well take up arms and ride to war. Whether it takes her life or not, she didn't care. Maybe this gives a little more perspective to her character and motivations. Tolkien's legendarium is full of similar characters, tragic, hopeless heroes who show unusual courage and do great deeds. With no one else have I seen dozens of people explaining that their feats were due to some kind "false ideals or mental disorder" and their greatest act was "actually to fall in love"... Somehow this only applies to Eowyn. Why? How about Turin, the most tragic figure in Tolkien's legendarium? He was often, if not completely, at least half-insane man and often made very rash, stupid decisions. Still, I've never seen comments like "actually killing Glaurung wasn't Turin's greatest victory but friendship with Mim".😁 In any case, this comment is not entirely addressed to you but to many others as well. So if it feels bit rude in some parts it may not be pointed to you. Your comment is partially correct, but gives a very one-sided and narrow picture of the subject.
@@x-wing8785 You've missed the point entirely. I'm not talking about Éowyn's fight with the Witch-king; I'm talking about Éowyn's seeking glory in battle. She has no hope, so all she seeks is renown in death. And so she ends up with Faramir, who says "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." Faramir's got it figured out, and he teaches this to Éowyn. And this is Tolkien's whole point. Éowyn is broken, and her quest for glory is a self-destructive impulse. She's wrong for seeking it. She eventually learns from Faramir where to find hope: in love and pity, not in conflict.
@@SuStel Yes, you didn't talk about Witch King. I brought it up because: if Eowyn was meant to be a character with false ideals why on earth did Tolkien choose her to slay Sauron's most terrifying being? You can't claim with a straight face that the lesson of Eowyn's story was to give up false ideals? I just wrote about Eowyn's motives for going to war. You can say she was just looking for death and glory but you completely ignore why that is. Gandalf's quote above says everything essential about it. She couldn't bear the fact that she was forced to sit at home while his king and country fell apart. And just because she was a woman, she wasn't allowed to do anything for it. This is why she went to war, to do something valuable, even by dying. Before this she had experienced years of insignificance and rejection. This is the real reason why she took her fate into her own hands. The desire of recognition and desperation was just the result of those years of rejection. It's no wonder she grabbed the sword and doing so she achieved something greater than anyone could imagine. It is also true that Eowyn gave up the life of a warrior, but so did everyone else. Every key person returned to their normal peaceful lives when the ring was destroyed. This is because Tolkien wanted to give everyone a happy ending. Not because Tolkien wanted to say "a woman's place is not on the battlefield!" Especially after what happened in Pelennor's field. One particular woman was very much in her place there. 🙂
@@x-wing8785 "Yes, you didn't talk about Witch King. I brought it up because: if Eowyn was meant to be a character with false ideals why on earth did Tolkien choose her to slay Sauron's most terrifying being? You can't claim with a straight face that the lesson of Eowyn's story was to give up false ideals?" No, the lesson is that love and pity are better than war and conflict. And Tolkien has her defeat the Witch-king because (1) it makes for a good story and (2) after defeating the Witch-king, she has achieved the glory she sought, and she's still without hope. Getting what she asked for hasn't helped her. But when Faramir shows her pity and love, THAT'S when she turns around. "She couldn't bear the fact that she was forced to sit at home while his king and country fell apart." She has reasons, yes. I never said otherwise. But they're not GOOD reasons. She wasn't asked to sit at home. She was asked to rule the people after the king was gone, likely to lose, and to do whatever she could to save them when the Dark Lord inevitably won. "And just because she was a woman, she wasn't allowed to do anything for it." No, not just because she is a woman. They play that up in the movie, but that's not in the book. She is a shield maiden. She uses that as an excuse in the book, but the king has lots of reason to ask her to rule in his stead when he's gone, having nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman. "It is also true that Eowyn gave up the life of a warrior, but so did everyone else." YES! That's the point. She was the only one who wasn't seeking peace and life. Faramir fixed that in her. "This is because Tolkien wanted to give everyone a happy ending. Not because Tolkien wanted to say "a woman's place is not on the battlefield!"" Tolkien did not want to give everyone a happy ending. There is plenty of tragedy in the book. Tolkien set up various character arcs, and Éowyn's arc was "hopeless, seeks hope in glory and death, fails to find it on the battlefield, learns it in pity and love." I don't know why you keep attributing misogyny to my argument; that's not my point at all. It has nothing to do with Éowyn's sex. It has everything to do with war and conflict being the wrong way to find hope.
'' ... bogged down with the names...''' Tolkien is based on his imagined language, which means names and words are the foundation of it. Yes, they are overwhelming, but if you master the words, you forever gain a passport to middle earth. For me, the Language [names and places] was the wellspring for my everlasting love. I have literally lost count of the number of times I have read the story at somewhere more than a dozen...
For some reason it looks like RU-vid ate my first comment. It knows I made it because it says there are 2 comments, but it's only showing the later one :p Anyway, the only thing worth saving from that first comment was that if you enjoyed LotR and are looking to get into it more, I definitely recommend the BBC radio play. It's easily my favourite adaptation, and probably the way I consume the series most frequently.
The way the appendices are presented in the books is definitely something that can impact your enjoyment. When I read LotR, I had it all in a single volume, so the appendices were available to me at every mention. I don't know how each edition handles it, but it looks like the movie cover editions you were reading made the questionable choice of putting the appendices all at the end of RotK instead of attached to the books for which they would be relevant. This might stem from LotR never being intended to be a trilogy though. It was written as a single book, and then broken up into three after the fact.
