Real Lawyer Reacts to Star Trek TNG Measure of a Man (Picard Defends Data’s Humanity) // LegalEagle

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Is Data machine or man?!?!?!
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By popular request, one of the greatest episodes of Star Trek The Next Generation!
When Starfleet officer Maddox orders Data’s disassembly for research purposes, Data is thrust into a legal battle to determine if he is entitled to the rights enjoyed by sentient beings. Data tries to resign his commission but Starfleet won’t let him. Worse, against his will, Commander Riker is ordered to advocate against Data. Captain Picard must defend Data in a trial for his life.
Is it a realistic trial? Does Data deserves all the rights and privileges of a Starfleet officer? IS DATA A REAL PERSON?!
"The Measure of a Man" is the ninth episode of the second season of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
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I get asked a lot about whether being a practicing attorney is like being a lawyer on TV. I love watching legal movies and courtroom dramas. It's one of the reasons I decided to become a lawyer. But sometimes they make me want to pull my hair out because they are ridiculous.
Today I'm taking a break from representing clients and teaching law students how to kick ass in law school to take on lawyers in the movies and on TV. While all legal movies and shows take dramatic license to make things more interesting (nobody wants to see hundreds of hours of brief writing), many of them have a grain of truth.
This is part of a continuing series of "Lawyer Reaction" videos. Got a legal movie or TV show you'd like me to critique? Let me know in the comments!
All clips used for fair use commentary, criticism, and educational purposes. See Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015).
Typical legal disclaimer from a lawyer (occupational hazard): This is not legal advice, nor can I give you legal advice. Sorry! Everything here is for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. Nothing here should be construed to form an attorney client relationship. Also, some of the links in this post may be affiliate links, meaning, at no cost to you, I will earn a small commission if you click through and make a purchase. But if you click, it really helps me make more of these videos!
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Опубликовано:

24 май 2019

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Комментарии : 15 тыс.

@LegalEagle 5 лет назад

Indochine suits > Data's yellow bodysuit: bit.ly/2IeeB8W

@Kingdom007Hearts 5 лет назад

If you like this trial episode. I also recommend later trial episodes for both Warf and Picard.

@JimCullen 5 лет назад

Objection. This is essentially a military court, and Data is military personnel. Surely wearing his military uniform is what you would expect, regardless of whether that would be considered acceptable under other circumstances? Perhaps he should have been in dress uniform though...

@rashodjohnson1389 5 лет назад

Objection in the star trek universe all of those court proceedings would be recorded by Hologram not stenographer Therefore all physical motions and actions would be recorded and notable By hologram

@Syndr1 5 лет назад

Objection.The guy who gave the thumbs down is a star wars fan.

@frogsinpants 5 лет назад

Objection! Cultural imposition.

@JodySalerno 3 года назад

Objection: Data's "yellow jumpsuit" is his Starfleet uniform and his decorations in Starfleet are an important part of his counsel's case.

@sarahschmidt2782 3 года назад

*gavel bang* Sustained. Defendants military uniform is recognized as reasonable and respectable in court.

@nathanhook8351 3 года назад

He should have worn the formal dress uniform version rather than his everyday uniform.

@ramdattaropemaker9009 3 года назад

He just said that to plug his sponsor

@wtf44mate 3 года назад

To be technical that would be BDU or (Battle dress uniform) vs. Formal Class A's. However, everyone else was wearing BDU's as well.

@garyseven710 3 года назад

The only caveat I might add is that, given this formal legal proceedings, that perhaps he should've worn his dress uniform instead of his regular duty uniform

@chcikety 5 лет назад

Objection! Data's jumpsuit is technically his military uniform, which is proper court attire.

@StarkRG 5 лет назад

Not to mention literally everyone else in the room is wearing almost the same thing...

@uknownada 5 лет назад

Plus this is 400 years in the future. Some elements about court and lawyering could stay more-or-less consistent and universal for a fair trial, but etiquette for clothing can easily change.

@HellfireCignus 5 лет назад

Actually this is his day to day uniform and not his dress uniform which they wear to greet dignitaries and so forth. So he should have went with his other uniform. Or Indochino.

@Terry396 5 лет назад

In the future we will wear are tighty space pajammies to Court lol

@briandavion 5 лет назад

in fact wearing something other then the starfleet uniform everyone else was wearing would have made him stand out more and potentialy be seen as "not one of us" now they proably should have all been in dress uniforms, but the TNG dress uniform looks hidious anyway so I'm glad they skipped that

@chloejessica7961 Год назад

i think when Picard objected to Data's hand being removed, it was out of sheer outrage for his friend being demeaned in such a way. then he realized that that wouldn't carry any legal weight and withdrew it.

@GueCalColombianTropicals 7 месяцев назад

He had an argument if he had thought about it, but at that point his outrage clouded his reason. The argument is that assuming he is found to have the same rights as any other being, this would not be asked nor allowed without permission. The argument is very easy, & quite clear.

@cd-zw2tt 7 месяцев назад

Since the hearing pertained to Data's right to choose, it would be prejudicial for the prosecution to be allowed to remove it without consent, as bodily autonomy is a given right to living beings, and that he would be presumed to have that right before it was challenged.

@GueCalColombianTropicals 7 месяцев назад

@@cd-zw2tt This is exactly what I have been saying. You do not infringe on the rights you are establishing a being has in order to establish or challenge them. There have been others arguing that it wasn't an affront to the rights being discussed because Data won't be harmed by the act. I attest that he is harmed in that his right to bodily autonomy is infringed upon. I mean its not even a hard sell this idea.

@cd-zw2tt 7 месяцев назад

@GueCalColombianTropicals One striking thing at the end of this episode when Data formally refuses the procedure, but then the next few episodes he provides detailed daily logs to provide to Maddox. Really shows Data's true commitment to helping, even for his potential butcher.

@danb9460 7 месяцев назад

@@GueCalColombianTropicalsit would be battery. Even if it wasn’t physically harming it could be interpreted as deeply insulting and demeaning as an individual.

@johntaggart979 Год назад

"Starfleet was founded to seek out new life. Well, there it sits!" Such a powerful line in one of ST:TNG's best speeches. While technically not a good legal tactic in a courtroom, this speech truly defines the question of what Starfleet means by "seeking out new life", and demonstrates Picard's commitment to that principle.

@GueCalColombianTropicals 7 месяцев назад

I wish there was a love react here just for this comment. This is one of Picard's best lines. Absolutely one of his best monologues.

@GueCalColombianTropicals 6 месяцев назад

Every time I come back to this thread, I reread your comment. Absolute gold!

@lfrands 6 месяцев назад

@@GueCalColombianTropicalsmeeee toooo! ❤ I mean, I totally agree with you lol

@user-hu3wd9bb5i 6 месяцев назад

this episode makes me cry, legit, every time

@hanksimon1023 6 месяцев назад

Since this is a legal focus, one of the literary tropes is overlooked. If you go back to Isaac Asimov's "I, Robot" the title character wants to be declared as being human and having human rights [sound familiar? ;-) ]. Part of the story, the robot controls a major corporation, and over many years, the corporation makes legal challenges as to the humanity of people who have prosthetic fingers, hands, legs, eyes, organs, hearts, and maybe memories and brains [I don't recall the details. ;-) ] Star Trek doesn't have the time to develop this for Data, so they condense it into one Court case, then leverage the results in other episodes. I think this episode is a nod to Asimov [Not too big a leap from considering Asimov's Positronic brain! ] Now, allow me a big leap! I think that Apple Corporation, which has Trillions of dollars In resources, may be playing a similar game, not with robotics, but with standards and technologies, incrementally losing many small lawsuits that may appear to be against Apple, but could be part of a long term strategy towards technology standards that fit a need that Apple is about to reveal in the next 5 years. That used to be part of the marketing genius of Steve Jobs ... to create devices that we didn't realize that we needed: iPod, iPhone, iPad, and Vision Pro. They didn't 'invent' the initial devices, but they help to change the industry to make them easy to use, intuitive to use, and then indispensable...

@drakesavory2019 3 года назад

I always thought Picard should have objected and say, "I'll turn a human off too." and knock Riker unconcious.

@fmailaender 3 года назад

He has a phaser to do it. And with the technology of Star Trek he could have used the same phaser to cut off his Arm. They have the possibility to regrow limbs. Wonder if the judge would have allowed it if he would have asked for permission. 😈

@skz5k2 3 года назад

Spock used to "turn off" humans quite often

@JumpingTuna 3 года назад

Attacking opposing counsel wouldn't help your case.

@AzurezeroArt 3 года назад

@@skz5k2 he also used to turn them on :3

@spaceclaw1958 2 года назад

Legal Episodes of Star Trek; Tribunal Rules of Engagement

@pelewads 4 года назад

By giving him a command rank, and placing biological individuals beneath him, Star Fleet had already answered this question.

@Crusader1089 4 года назад

That is part of Picard's evidence, showing his achievements and medals and star fleet record.

@aidanwotherspoon905 3 года назад

He also (kind of) made that point early on in this video

@peterpetrasko1083 3 года назад

Sort of yes, sort of no. If we're using the context of the us military for Star Fleet, there is precedent for officers who are not "people," and even for those officers to have subordinates. Canines in the military are granted ranks as Non-Commissioned Officers, specifically a higher rank than their handler. So Data being an officer doesn't necessarily require him to be a person. However, the military rank would, if drawing on this precedent, still probably grant him a certain degree of rights and protection against battery and other abuse which would mean he probably couldn't be ordered to participate in Maddox experiment.

@user-nn6jt3ue6u 3 года назад

Absolutely. I love this episode but the man is third in command of the Enterprise. You can’t take that away from him. His position is evidence enough that Starfleet believed him to be a sentient being.

@sampaiosamps9930 3 года назад

But isn't the ship in a way in the same ballpark. It is trusted with the lives of the people in it and it can give certain commands that are followed under the discretion of the people. I still think a mechanical mind still should have rights under circumstances such as Datas. But his position as someone with authority can be perceived differently and as a tool for an end without humanity Not that that's the right think to do, as i said i think in that case he is independent, just not under those foundations

@jonblumenfeld8884 11 месяцев назад

The writer of this episode, Melinda Snodgrass, actually went to law school and worked (briefly) as a lawyer. Also, the idea of the commanding officer defending and the next highest ranking officer prosecuting is how it works in the US Navy when no JAG officers are available - for example when the ship is at sea far from any port. C+ seems a little harsh, especially when you take into account the dramatic license necessary for a TV show, which you acknowedge.

@smalltime0 5 месяцев назад

I'd agree with that if the Enterprise was in deep space at the time, but they're docked at a starbase near the Romulan Neutral Zone for a crew rotation, they're not away from port. They literally visit the starbase again 7 episode later to pickup an ensign. Not only could they have probably just waited for another prosecutor, they could've waited for a proper defence attorney (although, I think commanding officers are still allowed to be defence at tribunals, right?). Now if it were a voyager episode, they'd have to make do.

@aserta 5 месяцев назад

@@smalltime0 That's if the Enterprise were a ship of the Navy. But this is the future and Star Fleet. Certain aspects of the show harken to more archaic aspects of the captain having more than just management attributions (be they command or just plain staff and stuff). Not far fetched that Picard (or any other captain) on a ship with that many occupants is to be the defendant. They are the captain's people, therefore, the captain's responsibility to defend. I'd say it's a good method to foster responsibility both in command and commanded (on account of not causing the commander of the ship trouble). They are travelling to more than just a Starbase in episodes.

@haravikk 5 месяцев назад

@@smalltime0 Starbases are still limited by the personnel available; Captain Louvois (acting as judge) does actually point out that her office is newly established and she has no staff yet, which is why she wants Picard and Riker to act as the advocates, as it could otherwise take weeks to get someone suitable out there. And to avoid such a delay she threatens to make some kind of summary judgement instead if Riker won't take on the responsibility. Under normal circumstances she would probably have staff that can act as advocates without conflict of interest, but the office being new is given as the reason why Picard and Riker have to do it, so it's a reasonable excuse for the added drama.

@Nickanj 5 месяцев назад

@smalltime0 Have you missed the part of the episode wherein the JAG indicates that this is at this point a brand new base and that she has no staff at this juncture, and therefore must conscript serving officers?

@AnonymousAnarchist2 4 месяца назад

Not just the creative license, there is also the setting of the show, a minimalst hiarchy, communist, military based science driven, society.

@princessakhana Год назад

I'm always surprised that they fail to bring up the point that Data paints. He doesn't just copy other artwork, he creates his own unique compositions with many artistic techniques found across all possibilities. It's spawned from originality, it's not prompted by other people telling a machine that they want a self-portrait in a certain style, for example.

@jonathans.972 Год назад

Right! Also, if they were to argue Data is just copying styles and techniques to create something unique in the aggregate, then they don't understand how humans work either. That's exactly how most humans develop skills.

@sethmaki1333 Год назад

He also develops his own style when playing music and in acting.

@ZacLowing Год назад

Elephants can paint, that's not a good defence.

@ClaudiaRamos-ov3xh Год назад

That's beautiful

@markrichards9646 Год назад

Funny. This exact issue is currently being argued in the media. Can art generated by an AI be considered original art and copyrightable?

@lakkakka 2 года назад

Objection. The trial wasn't about data being human. It is clear he isn't. The question for the court to find an answer to is "Is Data and should Data have the rights of a sentient life form or a mere tool?".

@Mandemon1990 2 года назад

Indeed. At no point is argument made that Data is human or deserves human rights. Question is "Is Data a sentient being and thus entitled the rights of sentient being?"

@SubduedRadical 2 года назад

@@khamjaninja. I mostly agree, but remember the episode with the three little floating robots? I don't remember what they were called, only that they gained sentience. Data proposed asking them if they had a plan they were willing to carry out, and they did. The initial plan was basically to do something that would destroy them, and to force them to do so by programming. In their own plan, though, the three joined together to stabilize the power core or whatever, but couldn't be beamed out, so one of them took on all the effort so the other two could be beamed out, thus sacrificing itself for its fellows. I don't remember the episode, but that dealt with this same/similar question, just in a different way. The idea being that a manufactured being is NOT automatically assumed sentient, or even a lifeform.

@HappyBeezerStudios 2 года назад

As Picard says it: "Aren't we machines made from different elements" All those makeup aliens are externally and functionally not too different from humans. Sure, some things are slightly different, but that hasn't stopped the federation from accepting their rights. So far Data is just another example, but because he was made by a human and is not biological in nature, they don't know if he should have the same rights as all the aliens they encountered.

@kevinshumaker3753 2 года назад

@@SubduedRadical The 'robots' were Exocomps, and the story was "The Quality of Life".

@Civsuccess2 2 года назад

Data's real programming code name is Alexa.

@abherbitter 5 лет назад

Objection! You skipped over the scene where Piccard requires Data's full service record to be read. This was a great move by his defense.

@JoshuanKnode 5 лет назад

Alexander Herbitter Goes back to Kirk’s trial in the original series

@KingoftheJuice18 5 лет назад

@@JoshuanKnode Indeed. I'd like to see LegalEagle do that one!

@danielpasilis4046 5 лет назад

Irrelevant police and military working dogs have rank, service records and are even given awards and commendations but are still regarded as property

@PrinceAlberts 5 лет назад

Daniel Pasilis : Interesting point. I’d never thought about that.

@Lalfy 5 лет назад

@@danielpasilis4046 Either way, it would have been interesting to discuss.

@stefanlaskowski6660 Год назад

This is not really a trial, but a military tribunal or hearing. It's bound to have some differences than civilian versions, not to mention that ST:TNG takes place some 300 years in the future and laws will certainly have evolved somewhat. All in all, one of Star Trek's better episodes.

@allenfunstuff Год назад

Congratulations your argument is forward the very important point that the lawyer judging this is not from the judge advocate general's office and is not accustomed to military trials thus his information maybe invalid and certainly he does not qualify as an expert all in fun LOL still true though

@TheDawnofVanlife Год назад

@@allenfunstuff I think he knew he was doing this for fun. And that obviously there may be non-applicable legal things in fictional future.

@TheDawnofVanlife Год назад

He’s also working from a US Government perspective. The United States no longer exist and technically the Federation is an institution of it’s own while having it’s primary location be on Earth at the time of TNG, is much like the Military (technically they aren’t military, they are actually more like NASA and an exploratory not military organization.). It’s an institution with it’s own regulations that are institutionally driven and not necessarily even within the purvue of earth.

@Knightwolf1994 Год назад

He should've brought that JAG lawyer along since Starfleet is basically a space navy.

@benjamindeh873 Год назад

TNG has a lot of amazing episodes. And most certainly this is one of them.

@howardallan7849 Год назад

Data was already recognized as a person. They didn't give the computer core of the ship a military rank. Data has rank, therefore he is a member of his crew also recognized as a person. You should also take a look at the episode Lal.

@benjamindeh873 Год назад

I dont think Lal's episode has as many legal implications as this one. It is a good episode, but not with as much legality as this one.

@chris_the_most_humble Год назад

I agree, this question would surely have been answered when he wanted to enter Star Fleet Academy and become an officer. I'd have to think the first Star Fleet exam Data would have taken, he would have been failed for using ChatGPT and this question had to be answered then, but still good story to set it in the current arc of TNG.

@mkalut4823 11 месяцев назад

Unfortunately there is a major flaw in your argument that actually would've been one of the stronger arguments for Data not having rights under the law. Currently in the U.S. military service dogs are given a rank just like their human counterparts, yet animals are still recognized as property. As such unless this practice had changed by the time of ST:TNG the fact that Data holds a military rank wouldn't have proved his personhood as property could still hold a rank like any sentient species.

@robertadorian4234 11 месяцев назад

So, very often, at least now, lower courts overturn decisions made by other groups, even the military. Also, the argument can be made that all members of Starfleet are, technically, the property of Starfleet. You can be ordered to enter a situation where you know you will die. You go where they tell you, do what they tell you, kill if they tell you. And die if they tell you.

@PyroGam3s 9 месяцев назад

@@mkalut4823 I like the way you draw that parallel with the military dogs. I was going to say even though data went through training like everyone else and received a rank, it would actually be conceivable that they gave him a "honorary" rank of commander so as not to incite dissent among the other officers, crew, or cadets. Of course this is just my theory to make the situation fit narrative, I don't believe there's any real lore to it. But it could make sense if they haven't by then actually figured out what his inherent rights were at the time, opening the door for a future episode such as this.

@Skullbash258 2 года назад

“Sentient beings don’t bring onesies to a court”, literally a court full of people wearing their onesie STARFLEET UNIFORMS

@dhkatz_ 2 года назад

I'm pretty sure it was a joke

@Moorhuehnchen 2 года назад

not to forget for all their pacifism: starfleet is a military organisation making this very court a military one. wearing one's uniform to court is the propper dress for such an occation. one could argue he should have worn his dress uniform instead of his "work/combat" uniform

@randyc8771 2 года назад

Poor legal argument, but excellent segue way for his sponsor!

@waynemarvin5661 2 года назад

I'm 30 percent sure his obsession with Data's attire was to reference his sponsor. He had no comments at all concerning the other characters' Uniforms, and they were all wearing the same pajamas.

@theguywhoisaustralian1465 2 года назад

that joke flew over your head at warp 9

@floriandanna2534 3 года назад

Objection: There is no stenographer present... I would assume this whole proceeding is holoregistered, thus the judge's nod would actually be enough to enter the bar into evidence.

@cassuttustshirt4949 3 года назад

Damn, that's a really good point.

@Bravohalo 3 года назад

Holocapture isn't allowed in Federation courts.

@Purpleturtlehurtler 3 года назад

@@Bravohalo it is equivalent to our current videography.

@floriandanna2534 3 года назад

@@Bravohalo Hmm? Where is this cited if I may ask? Holographic evidence surely is allowed in Federation courts (see the episode where Riker is accused of murder)... It would stand to reason that if a method is "good enough" as evidence, it would hold up for record keeping too...

@ireallyreallyhategoogle 2 года назад

I was about to write that. Assuming stenography is still used in Star Trek is very naive.

@pluviosity Год назад

It's almost hilarious to realize that the "fling" with Tasha in Naked Now is one of the thing that saved Data from being dismembered.

@Z1gguratVert1go Год назад

good point, but I don't think they wanted to dismember him. I'm sure the Federation can already make piles of humanoid limbs, I think they literally want to take his BRAIN apart. If they just wanted to borrow his arm for the afternoon he would have let them do it.

@GueCalColombianTropicals Год назад

I do not think it was the "fling" which was a 1 time sexual encounter. I think it was how Data viewed the encounter, the memorabilia that he keeps of her, its sentimental value to him & his aversion to recounting the event due to Tasha's preference in the matter. Basically, it wasn't what happened, but how it affected Data & his views that was important in the case.

@Z1gguratVert1go Год назад

@@GueCalColombianTropicals I agree. While he may be emotionless himself, his careful and thoughtful handling of her needs implies that maybe even if he has no feelings, he can accommodate another's feelings and that might be close enough.

@Demigord Год назад

@@Z1gguratVert1go he literally said he would dismantle him

@TheDawnofVanlife Год назад

@@Z1gguratVert1go I think even Data himself confused what emotions were. At times he was more emotional then most Vulcans are. Like the time he helped a little girl against orders and protested his own kidnapping as a collector’s peice (and seemingly even acted against his own programing). The ‘emotion chip ‘that was eventually introduced seemed more to increase sensation then create emotions. Like a lot of people think neurodivergent people do not present ‘emotion’ the way people outside the spectrum do. They may also be unaware of emotions in others without direct words to explain. But they don’t lack emotion. Also I believe a scientist can program sensation not emotion. The fact Data bonded with or even wanted a cat to the extent of caring about it’s care in his absence is a sign of emotion.

@umdisc64 11 месяцев назад

The writer of this episode is a lawyer, and also has a college degree in History. That is why this episode was written as it is and probably why she wrote into the script an analogy between the android's case and Scott v. Sanford.

@sylviaelse5086 3 года назад

Objection: Removing Data's hand is a violation of his personal autonomy, and allowing it prejudges the very issue that is before the court.

@gnosticagnostic9326 3 года назад

He has been prejudged, Picard is challenging that judgement

@amigajoe1 3 года назад

If it was a person with a prosthetic you might get away with it to make a point...

@sylviaelse5086 3 года назад

@@amigajoe1 You might, but a prosthetic is clearly not a part of a person's body. Data's hand is a part of his.

@drkirkland79 3 года назад

@@sylviaelse5086 That's interesting: To say you can remove the hand is to assume he is non-autonomous, and to say the you cannot is to assume that he is. Perhaps you could argue that Data is just a collection of prosthetics, and it is only his "mind" that is up for debate.

@klop4228 3 года назад

@@drkirkland79 That argument makes removing his hand entirely irrelevant, though iirc that was part of Picard's argument

@rogersmj 3 года назад

“I think these questions would have been solved when Data entered Starfleet...” Well yeah, and if not then, then presumably before he rose to the rank of Lt. Commander and third in command of the fleet’s flagship.

@xilj4002 3 года назад

An experimental AI might enter training, now we feed it information, but sitting through academy could as well work in the future. Donald Duck has a US military rank. And I think a few cats, too. In certain situations the Doctor (meeical hologram) can overrule others pulling authority, and while it's only tangentially relevant because of timeline and a unique situation, we have seen the Doctor gain temporary commanding rank, and I don't think he was ever deemed a person (only an author). Therefore we can assume rank is not necessary tied to personhood. This means that Data might have been through the academy as AI training, and got honorary / acting ranks on ships as part of that experimental training. Part of that might have been Star Fleet acquiring him (there are also laws about lost, mislaid, unclaimed, and abandoned property, and very likely salvage laws, Data might fall under one of those)

@GFAprodite 2 года назад

Dogs Are Given Rank In The Military…

@catwiesel_81 2 года назад

in my head canon its everybody just assumed rightly so that data is what would be the equivalent of a person, which, in world where many different live forms are the norm, many of them may even be aliens, as in, not a part of your cultural, political, geographical, national group. i.e. aliens from outseide the federation still being treated as persons by habbit, and not only after court battles - so they let him join the acadamy, starfleet, and so on. there is probably a lot of law regarding aliens/none federation members joining starfleet, but all in all, its probably not dealing with the question of sentients, it would be listed as a requirement. so some recruiter somewhere made the checkbox for data [x] sentient... and on it went. now, 20 years and a stellar career later, some dude with his own agenda is challenging this assumption because - reasons - and we end up with one of the best star trek episodes ever. yeah, okay, depending on how bureaucratic, full of lawyers the federation actually is, the question would have come up sooner and be laid to rest one way or the other. and data himself might have pushed the issue, kinda like a immigrant going for citizenship because, well because it grants you certain rights which you may not want to miss when you might need them some day... but, I dont think there is no way ever where there might be a federation that is so naive, so good at heart, so lovely dovy that they dont just assume the best always, and the question of sentience never came up because it always is given, until someone forced the issue, kinda like your boss suing you to prove that you are human so you have rights and cant be treated like a robot and work 24/7...

@ebinrock 2 года назад

Yeah, it kinda makes this whole episode's premise stupid, although otherwise the writing and acting are solid.

@BOYVIRGO666 2 года назад

Id be more concerned why the top brass of the federation didnt get involved in this since Data has the medal of honor. Which implies that an admiral gave him a very high honor. I dont see how this would have been an acceptable court ruling without starfleet admirality being involved.

@jimsnow9493 8 месяцев назад

It's worth noting that the Star Trek TNG blu-ray release has an episode commentary by the original author of the script, Melinda Snodgrass (who has a law degree). Apparently when she floated the idea of the script it took a bit of work to convince Roddenberry that there were still lawyers in the 25th century.

@EWRPVM 6 месяцев назад

There’s literally an original series episode about Kirk on trial for murder where he gets legal counsel, Roddenberry was a bit crazy at times honestly

@zimriel 6 месяцев назад

we still have intestinal flatworms in the 21st century

@ric7044 6 месяцев назад

@@EWRPVM Well, TOS is set in the 23rd Century. TNG is in the 24th. Maybe lawyers were abolished in between :D :D

@Neville60001 4 месяца назад

24th century.

@wraithflaire1639 Год назад

Actually That's a common misconception she doesn't rule that data is a Person. What she decided is that since Starfleet cannot measure consciousness they lack the ability to determine Dita's personhood. The matter of wether Data is a person or not is pending the development of such a test. In the intern she granted him the right to choose.

@SanjayMerchant 2 месяца назад

I dunno, in part of her statement (opinion?) at the end, she says she doesn't know if Data has a soul and immediately follows with "I don't know that I do." Which could be read as explicitly putting Data in the same category as a human when it comes to such questions.

@wraithflaire1639 2 месяца назад

@@SanjayMerchant explicitly is quite an stretch. It is tentative at best. She never explicitly says whether or not having a soul is an requirement for personhood.

@Boltizar49 3 года назад

“Good news, Data. We’ve successfully argued that you do possess a soul.” “I thank you, Captain. If I may ask, how did you accomplish this?” “Well legally you’re haunted.”

@menacelurkingyet8345 3 года назад

Don't be stupid Data, you can't handle the truth !!

@Purpleturtlehurtler 3 года назад

@@menacelurkingyet8345 THINK, DATA! THINK!

@tubaszuba 2 года назад

HA! I get it!

@awkwardllama0509 2 года назад

This was pretty clever, not gonna lie

@norman5927 4 года назад

Point that was NOT addressed: They spoke of "property" and used the ships computer as an example. Starfleet built the computer, Starfleet did NOT build Data. Even if data was determined to be 'property' he would not belong to Starfleet.

@mdheinze57 4 года назад

Right! He signed up, he was not purchased.

@michaelpettersson4919 4 года назад

@@mdheinze57 Add this that his creator consider Data to effectively be his son.

@nancyomalley9959 4 года назад

@@michaelpettersson4919 And Soong was still alive at that point-too bad they couldn't find him and have him testify for Data

@MichaelFienen 4 года назад

This has always been the point that really breaks this episode for me. Data was allowed to voluntarily choose to join Starfleet under the same terms and conditions as any other cadet (presumably). That very fact subsequently undermines any argument that he can't choose to resign, or is now Starfleet property as a result.

@nancyomalley9959 4 года назад

@@MichaelFienen Agreed! All because some selfish scientist(Maddox) doesn't like being told 'No, he can't do that' He can't walk all over others' rights to satisfy his research

@mirandagavrin5644 Год назад

It was correct of the judge to overrule Picard's objection about the steel bar, but it was also correct for Picard to make it, and here's why: if he throws in objections when he sees an opportunity, it makes the process look more adversarial and makes it look like Riker is doing an adequate job as a prosecutor. Doesn't change anything about the case, does make it less likely that the judge will decide Riker isn't pretending to be a prosecutor hard enough and ragequit.

@davidedwards1705 Год назад

Objection. I admit that this episode hit me so hard in the FEELS I cried when Riker asked Data to forgive him prior to turning him off.

@fearisthemind-killer Год назад

I was hit harder when Riker would not go the Data's party so Data had to go get him. Both scenes were emotional but Riker feeling like crap and Data explaining why Riker had to do what he did; extreme sadness and happiness in the same scene. Damn. I'm starting to get messed up just thinking about it.

@Justforvisit 6 месяцев назад

@@fearisthemind-killer The ending, where Data thanks Riker for what he did and says he's a friend to him.....😭❤

@LeoTheDarkAngel 5 месяцев назад

I always imagined Riker running straight to the bathroom after the hearing to throw up out of pure disdain for himself and what he has done.

@davidedwards1705 5 месяцев назад

@@LeoTheDarkAngel Almost, there is another scene where he apologizes to Data and Data was like "You did nothing wrong." It was beautiful.

@myleftfootoffury 3 месяца назад

"That action injured you, and saved me. I will not forget it." All the damn feels. I got misty typing that.

@thegardenofeatin5965 4 года назад

Objection! A non-verbal nod will likely suffice in a Starfleet court room as the record is no doubt recorded holographically.

@PrinceSilvermane 4 года назад

I would still think that making it clear that it was allowed would still be best, even with the holographic recording in mind.

@jerodast 4 года назад

@@PrinceSilvermane How is a nod and handing the rod back to Riker to proceed not "clear"?

@willieoelkers5568 4 года назад

Counter objection! Starfleet deals with dozens of cultures who presumably have very different body language and nonverbal cues. A nod could mean any number of things depending on the species and culture, while a verbal statement indisputably communicates intent.

@princedavid54 4 года назад

@@willieoelkers5568 A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.

@HappyLarry. 4 года назад

@@willieoelkers5568 Counter counter objection! They understand the human culture as Starfleet is a majority-human organisation, making a vertical nod known as a confirmation.

@Shanbo26 3 года назад

"Can't see a reason for that objection" How about, "My crew member shouldn't have to be dismembered by the prosecution?"

@gamerleal9265 3 года назад

Or "How would removing Datas' arm be any different from me removing, let's say, the Prosecutions' arm?" "Oh, your basis is that that arm can be detached and reattached.? Need I remind you that, with our advancements in medicine, the Prosecutors' arm too can be reattached?"

@zincwing4475 3 года назад

@@gamerleal9265 Not perfectly, or without damage.

@gamerleal9265 3 года назад

@@zincwing4475 Possible. Yet, there was an episode where crew members were being abducted and having medical experiments done to them. One experiment, was that Rikers' arm was separated and reattached but was, iirc, 3 microns off and had to be corrected by Dr. Crusher.

@roetemeteor 3 года назад

@@gamerleal9265 Yeah, that's actually a viable thing at this point. You could surgically remove someones arm and put it back exactly the way it came in the 2300's forward. You could easily just argue you could remove anyone arm, you just couldn't put it back as easily. Not much of an arugment, and neither was "BUT HE COMPUTAR BRAIN AND MADE BY MAN, SO HE BLEEP BLEEP I BREAK NOW."

@gamerleal9265 3 года назад

@@roetemeteor Truth in that. However, what would be the case of a person with a robotic prosthetic? Couldn't the prosthetic be put back as easily? We are really starting to splice hairs here. In addition, Riker did not mention anything in regards to the difficulty level(s) of reattaching limbs. At the same time though, Riker may have said what you have just said had Picard said what I said.

@QuarionGalanodel Год назад

I think that what Picard should have stated when he objected to Riker asking the judge if he could remove Data's hand is "To do so without Commander Data's permission would violate his bodily autonomy which must be respected until it it is determined to not be his right"

@Taladar2003 4 месяца назад

I am not sure bodily autonomy was a term in use back when that episode was made.

@ammaleslie509 3 месяца назад

@@Taladar2003 That term was in use. That term is very old.

@scrungozeclown836 Год назад

13:50 Likely the objection was something to the effect of this: this entire trial will decide whether or not Data can be dissected without his permission, and Ryker is asking the court to dissect him without his permission to prove they should be allowed to dissect him without his permission

@chadtiemeyer2175 6 месяцев назад

I think there is also that Picard just objects to the dehumanizing demonstration. His objection isn't based on court proceedings.

@saratavington5435 3 года назад

Objection: Starfleet is a Pseudo-military organization where members are expected to appear in uniform whenever they are on duty. Data's uniform is entirely proper attire for a court proceeding.

@lordomacron3719 3 года назад

I would argue that while true it would the ‘Dress Uniform’ and not the everyday uniform that would be worn in a Starfleet Court.

@Halinspark 3 года назад

Objection: Starfleet is an actual military organization, not pseudo-military or paramilitary. The Enterprise's role in exploration is irrelevant, as both the United States and Soviet navies have used various warships in an exploration role in the past. They have warships, weapons, and bases, and they are expected to participate in battles.

@lordomacron3719 3 года назад

@@Halinspark Starfleets Primary Purpose is NOT to combat. It is Not designed for the purpose of waging war. To be able to defend one's self does not automatically mean it is a purpose-built war machine

@samurphy 3 года назад

@@Halinspark The Defiant was the first ship designed as a Warship since the Federation/Klingon war. There's a reason all Federation ships seen up to then were run like cruise ships, with families and massive recreation facilities. Despite what Section 31 was doing in the background, Star Fleet, as an organization, was not intended to be a military organization, but one of exploration. Retconning notwithstanding, of course.

@TKDWILSON 3 года назад

I would agree, HOWEVER, Data resigned. The whole case is about whether he is allowed to resign. If your argument is you are allowed to resign, first step is to not be wearing the uniform.

@saschaschneider9157 4 года назад

"... Your honor, Starfleet was founded to seek out new life: well, there it sits! Waiting." - This Episode contains one of many considerable speeches in Star Trek. I get goose bumbs every time i watch it.

@ENDERLICOT 3 года назад

HOW MANY LIGHT ARE THERE?!!!!!!!

@saschaschneider9157 3 года назад

@@ENDERLICOT THERE. ARE. FOUR. LIGHTS!!

@Thinchap 3 года назад

@@saschaschneider9157 Wrong human. Look again, there are five lights. But seriously, yeah, this episode has me in tears every time :)

@PatrickPease 3 года назад

Dont forget the fancy rolled Rs with a nice english accent

@willhuey4891 3 года назад

great episode too.

@aeowyn_ Год назад

That "bodysuit" is his uniform, and was 100% appropriate for him for wear.

@mauirandall8176 6 месяцев назад

They're clearly pajamas

@stevencramsie9172 6 месяцев назад

@@mauirandall8176 incorrect, pajamas would actually be comfortable to wear. The actors hated wearing them.

@warriorlink8612 Год назад

Agreed with the C+ for legal realism, but Patrick Stewart's delivery in this episode is A+! My favorite part of this episode, and really of the series, was the closing conversation between Riker and Data. Man that was deep and full of layered development and foreshadowing!

@RBAWintrow 4 месяца назад

Guinan explaining what Maddox wants is to create a race of slaves was also very good. "Utterly disposable people who cannot disobey, one on every ship!"

@robt6654 3 месяца назад

@@RBAWintrow & @warriorlink8612. Yes, the trial, the conversation with Guinan, the closing conversation - the dialog is A+ throughout. Best. Episode. Ever.

@KingBobXVI 4 года назад

"You generally don't want to do that" _furiously taking notes_ Don't... remove... defendant's... hand... ...Got it! Thanks for the very much legal advice :P

@krieghart5515 4 года назад

I think all Riker proved was that prosthetics don't disqualify you from being human. Data is basically a walking prosthetic but is still autonomously using his prosthetics. Imagine a world where we can replace every visible part of the human body with a prosthetic while sustaining humanity and autonomy. Would you still be you after undergoing this procedure? Would we maintain human rights for the "ghost in the machine?" I would think so.

@d_9696 4 года назад

The bailiff will tackle you

@julietfischer5056 3 года назад

@@krieghart5515 - That was the original concept that Gerry Davis and Kit Pedler had in mind for the Cybermen. At what point does humanity end and machine begin.

@OliveEaters 3 года назад

*puts away cleaver.*

@astra3310 3 года назад

Wait you’re supposed to leave it attached? Woops....

@CaptainVryce 3 года назад

the best part of this episode for me was the end, how ashamed Riker was and Data told him it was ok because Riker sacrificed his beliefs in order to help give Data the chance to be free.

@gamerleal9265 3 года назад

If Portal 2 came out before this episode, I bet that Data, to further encourage Riker's attendance, would have said "there is cake I assure you" or something to that effect.

@ireallyreallyhategoogle 2 года назад

Which should have never happened in the first place. An unwilling prosecutor is not very legal.

@simonjohnston3100 2 года назад

It injured you and saved me. It will not be forgotten

@cowsagainstcapitalism347 2 года назад

I love how even though Data was technically "unable" to experience emotions, he thoughtfully expressed his gratitude and forged genuinely strong friendships. He taught himself to grow beyond his programming.

@gamerleal9265 2 года назад

@@cowsagainstcapitalism347 Not to mention that one time fling with Tasha Yar.

@godless-clump-of-cells Год назад

Data is easily my all-time favorite character throughout the _Star Trek_ franchise. "To seek out new life and new civilizations." Data isn't human; he's new life.

@imitt12 8 месяцев назад

The "box on wheels" comment got me wondering about how that would apply to the exocomps, especially given that they have demonstrable proof of sentience and were granted the rights of sentient beings.

@hellomark1 6 месяцев назад

Don't know if you've watched Lower Decks at all (it starts slow, but is pretty good by the end of the first season, gets better) but they have exocomps in the show, one even enrolls in Starfleet :)

@ichigo11220 2 года назад

This whole trial was actually a master play on Rikers part as he pretty much elaborately threw the case despite trying to win. He kept establishing character and garnering sympathy for data as he displayed how cooperative and civil data is while in a trial for his life. Even going so far as shutting off his processes and leaving the courtroom in grim shock at witnessing a man they've just been talking to collapse into inaction. Some Galaxy brain shit right there.

@josephrittenhouse5839 2 года назад

Riker definitely threw the case.

@un0RRS Год назад

And he did it while doing the only thing he could do to make the ruling legitimate, being a zealous advocate for the prosecution. You could never say he didn't try forcefully to prove his point. And he lost the case because of it. Data figured it out. Thanked him for it at the end of the episode. It killed Riker to treat him that way, and Data knew it would. And he knew Riker only did it to save his life. Data was smart.

@commenter0012 Год назад

@@un0RRS Data's an android. Of course he's smart.

@hobozero Год назад

@@commenter0012 Data is a toaster

@noth606 Год назад

@@hobozero You are an eggroll.

@robertfivecoat1654 2 года назад

You made it slight mistake. They weren't trying to prove that Data was human, merely that he was a sentient being entitled to the rights of all sentient beings in the known universe as such.

@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat 2 года назад

And more important than sentience, sapience

@kukalakana 2 года назад

Well yeah. I mean, Worf isn't human, and he has rights.

@an_oracle 2 года назад

To be fair Picard had to go out of his way to make that distinction in the episode, which implies up to that point it could've been misconstrued as attempting to prove he's human. It makes it a fair mistake if the characters are making that mistake as well

@yudhobaskoro8033 2 года назад

@@guyincognito8440 actually its a little bit deeper than that, in star trek universe u can "define" literally anything as a sentient as long as it can be proven under federation law, and on the universe where a planet, nebula, to a mere goo on the ground that can replicate other living being as a sentient being it can get really complicated, so there's no rights of a human, but there is a right of a sentient being and data seems to fall to that category, oh yeah i forgot to mention, an AI can be sentient in star trek universe, yea its crazy i know but it is what gene envisioned for star trek

@yudhobaskoro8033 2 года назад

@@guyincognito8440 ohhh yeah if federation is run by a tyrant earth then it is true, the alternate reality in star trek picard season 2 can confirm that, anything but a human is not to be treated the same as human, but the "real" reality in star trek main timeline not every member of the federation is a humanoid-sentient-being, there's only sentient and non-sentient beings under federation law, there's no segeregation between any species on any planet on any quadrant, any form of life can be considered sentient or non-sentient, data is made "human-like" bcs data is engineered by starfleet scientist, any synthetic being made in vulcan and q'onos can be made to look like a vulcan or a klingon so yea human-like or not doesnt matter here, the key to data winning the trial is bcs data can proof data is sentient (no gender pronouns here bcs data doesnt have one LOL)

@lazaruscain3424 Год назад

I think it's also important to remember that while Starfleet is a part of The Federation, it's also their military branch. As I understand it, military court has different rules, so it'd be interesting to see how close they got with that.

@007REAPER007 Год назад

One of my fav episodes and they sorta redid it in Star Trek Voyager with the Holographic doctor. Besides the legal side, it showed the pain that Riker went through doing what he did and felt so bad he didnt think he had the right to be Data's friend anymore until his friend Data talked to him, GREAT EPISODE!

@daredaemon8878 5 лет назад

Objection! This is clearly a military court rather than civilian court, and these are military uniforms. You don't wear a suit to court martial, you wear your uniform. Why would this be any different?

@steveleeart 5 лет назад

Dare Daemon agreed. Maybe they should wear the dress uniforms? But I don’t think they had those yet on the show.

@TheMadHatter248 5 лет назад

They should be in dress uniform though.

@Dargonhuman 5 лет назад

Overruled, the only reason he brought up the uniform was to plug the video sponsor.

@undrhil5281 5 лет назад

@@Dargonhuman Sustained, ad revenue should not stand in the way of any rulings.

@Krystalmyth 5 лет назад

@Steve Lee @Mike Yao They were in the field. At an outpost. Hence why Data didnt have a legal team, and why Picard and Riker had to join the defense and prosecution. This was a setup to screw Data on a lesser court. By having him deal with this away from Starfleet Command and the media. This would be like a court martial in Iraq/Afghanistan/Kuwait/etc. You'd wear your combat uniform.

@matityaloran9157 2 года назад

Objection: All of the officers are wearing their regular uniforms to the Data hearing implying that Data’s attire was appropriate

@chrlpolk 2 года назад

Yeah well, that whole point of that criticism was to plug overpriced custom suits at the end, so…..

@matityaloran9157 2 года назад

@@chrlpolk I didn’t know that at the time

@alansalacain2193 2 года назад

Regardless it is a valid objection as he is wearing his uniform

@matityaloran9157 2 года назад

@@alansalacain2193 Thank you

@st3faniem1 2 года назад

@@matityaloran9157 I think they all should wear dress uniforms though. It is common for military personnel to attend trial or court martial, but do so in dress uniform, not casual.

@edmundriddle3847 6 месяцев назад

The yellow onesie is his uniform: are they not appropriate to wear in a military court?

@chelsea6329 Год назад

In Data's defense, everyone was in uniform. It would have been super weird...

@marjanp 6 месяцев назад

It was excuse for advertising suits.

@watchm4ker 4 месяца назад

It should have been Dress Uniform, though.

@friendlygiant2314 4 года назад

I was surprised that it was never brought up that Nunyan Sung created Data, and not Starfleet, so they have no right to claim ownership of him.

@aesthetic_wreck5574 3 года назад

@ but they never made Data join, he joined voluntarily

@krashandburn 3 года назад

You could say data design is intellectual propery

@bigdream_dreambig 3 года назад

But Dr. Sung is deceased with no heirs (though there are some underlying complexities), so maybe Data would be legally considered salvage or treasure.

@killnotic 3 года назад

Finders keepers.

@jasonm2091 3 года назад

True. But the episode is about what makes a man, what is consciousness, and what is life. It's not about what makes property.

@moonsaves 4 года назад

My first argument would be "can anyone in this room say that they aren't created by one or more human beings?"

@margaretforsey7763 3 года назад

moonsaves Haha great point!

@schmilew1230 3 года назад

true

@billyfitzgerald3442 3 года назад

This is one of those double entendres, as it works both on a meta level (taking into account the show's writers), but also, of course, on a biological level. If you wanted to take it to an extra meta level, I suppose I would have Picard grab one of the cameras and lift it up to show the room had no proper ceiling.

@blacktimhoward4322 3 года назад

That's not rational. By that logic, a toaster has rights

@moonsaves 3 года назад

@@blacktimhoward4322 It isn't rational, that's why it's not a very good question to ask.

@user-nw5dc9dt6e Год назад

But the fact that Data doesn’t want to be experimented on proves that he is rather human than a machine, doesn’t it? Machines don’t object to experimentations because they don’t care about themselves.

@andyarken7906 6 месяцев назад

When they were talking about whether a computer would be allowed to refuse being refitted, I would have asked, "well, have they ever?"

@KafeinBE 6 месяцев назад

It doesn't prove anything. Data could have been programmed to express such as wish against the end of its existence. In fact, we humans are "programmed" to avoid self-destruction too, but for us it is a biological imperative.

@benknightbus1729 6 месяцев назад

@@andyarken7906 I suppose it would depend on how you’d define refused, as I’d say that computers do regularly refuse commands. They’ll refuse due to software or hardware error, conditional parameters not being met (safety lockouts, levels of access,) etc I’d then argue that a person reacts in the same way - they’ll refuse an order because they won’t believe their superior has the authority to do so. You could compare that to a programming error - the officer refused because he was not properly “programmed” to not question orders. You could also view it as a safety mechanism or access restriction - I don’t believe you have the moral authority to carry out that order (access denied.) A dozen different ways to look at it.

@isomeme 6 месяцев назад

@@benknightbus1729, exactly. It's analogous to my strenuously objecting to a mugger cutting me with a knife, but readily agreeing to a surgeon doing so.

@allenporter6586 6 месяцев назад

Ummm HAL 9000?

@framehowitzer Год назад

I think 'The Drumhead' is also a great legal-centric episode of The Next Generation, if you want to do a video like this again. Also great, 'Rules of Engagement' from TNG and 'The Menagerie' from the Original Series. Great video though, very interesting!

@Suthek 3 года назад

Objection: This case deals with wether or not Data possesses rights as a person. One of these rights is that of bodily integrity. Therefore, unless and until it is determined he does not have these rights, removing his arm should not be permissible without his, not the judges, consent.

@LordSandwichII 3 года назад

But the premise to start with is that Data does not have those rights, and they are arguing to change that law. Surely, therefore, Data would be assumed not to have those rights until it is ruled that he does.

@Suthek 3 года назад

@@LordSandwichII Actually, for the trial it would have to be assumed that he does, since he's the defendant. Similar to "innocent until proven guilty", in this case any ambiguity (in this case, whether or not he has rights) should be interpreted in favor of the defense unless and until the prosecution manages to prove otherwise.

@scottbissonnette514 3 года назад

I wish he had seen and responded to this comment. I’m with you on this one

@iamme4552 3 года назад

Except the judge gave permission. Perhaps not expressly to remove the arm, but it was given for the line of inquiry.

@iamme4552 3 года назад

Suthek Because this is more or less a case covering a gap in Federation law she is making it up a little as she goes.

@artembentsionov 5 лет назад

If Data was considered enough of a person to join up, then he has the same right to leave. Can’t start moving the goalposts when it’s convenient.

@Knutterbife 5 лет назад

You've never been in the military have you? Lol. Stop loss.

@SonicsniperV7 5 лет назад

The military can refuse your resignation as an officer or reactivate you at any time so they can refuse his leaving.

@SC-zq6cu 5 лет назад

@Jackalofdeath Data hasn't committed any crime, even according to millitary law. Him being ruled as a property and not an autonomous being directly contradicts starfleet previously acknowledging his personhood. Even if they can regulate his entry and exit of starfleet without his consent, carving him up without his consent will be illegal since carving any innocent military personnel is illegal and data has already been identified as a person by the starfleet the moment he applied for starfleet.

@discomfort5760 5 лет назад

@Jackalofdeath Correct. Rights cease to be on the battlefield anyway.

@kamenridernephilim 5 лет назад

It’s Star Trek socialism they the goal posts all the time. Much like in real life socialism doesn’t work even in fiction.

@donavonbain4332 6 месяцев назад

"Pinocchio is broken." "You're broken."😅 A lawyer with a heart!🥰

@Chuck-PK Год назад

I've always felt that Riker was purposefully making flawed sophist arguments to subtlety help Data and Picard's case and an FU to Maddox. Riker as the prosecution was a complete conflict of interest after all, he even said so himself.

@PyroGam3s 9 месяцев назад

Now that I see parts of this episode again, why isn't the starfleet researcher arguing his own case? He's the one who has a grievance which led to this whole situation in the first place and he's a witness to his own "lawsuit" so to speak, like how?

@scottmatheson3346 9 месяцев назад

technically this case is not about his rights even though he whines about his supposed right not to have his work interrupted. technically this is data v starfleet. and scientist guy is not in the chain of command here and thus not qualified.

@ghostlyswat12 6 месяцев назад

@@PyroGam3she doesn’t have the rank to argue his own case This is a military tribunal so someone of sufficient military rank needed to argue the case

@rfrolicarts 4 года назад

The writer of the screenplay, Melinda Snodgrass, was a lawyer for three years before quitting to become a science fiction writer.

@GMLSX 4 года назад

Now this makes me happy.

@rfrolicarts 4 года назад

@@GMLSX In her words, she "loved the law but couldn't stand lawyers"

@kekistanihelpdesk8508 4 года назад

Less lawyers makes the world a better place.

@tshcktall 4 года назад

@@rfrolicarts lawyers rather create silly vids than helping people. Makes her sympathetic to me.

@EdgardoCervantesP 4 года назад

Wow I did not know that. Thank God she did and gave us one of TNG top episodes.

@oooChickenatorXooo 5 лет назад

1:53 Objection! Commander Maddox is not a member of Starfleet Medical. He is the Associate Chair of Robotics at Daystrom. (Blue uniforms do not exclusively mean Medical; they mean Sciences Division) .

@mdyoung1971 5 лет назад

Actually, blue does denote medical, green is the color for science if you watch the show carefully.

@LyonHall1 5 лет назад

@@mdyoung1971 blue is also designated for Science

@evag_is_Mycroft_holmes 5 лет назад

mdyoung1971 Actually the show was pretty inconsistent. Sometimes even doctors would wear green and science staff would wear blue. At least that’s what i read

@mdyoung1971 5 лет назад

@@LyonHall1 The explain why Dr. Crusher ALWAYS wore blue.

@tekcomputers 5 лет назад

@@mdyoung1971 Blue denotes sciences division, Sciences division includes medical and mental health. Both Science and Medical is blue in the TNG uniforms. The "Blue" division color denotes Starfleet Sciences which includes both medical and mental health. As such science medical and conselors all wear the same division colors. The "science and medical" having different colors myth during TNG came about due to the color shift with between the Type B normal service uniform and the Type D dress uniform as used through first half of the 2370's (Season 4 of TNG and later) as the medical/science "blue" color was abit greenish in the dress uniform as opposed to the normal service Type B uniform typically worn where it was a lighter blue than the type A's worn during the first three seasons. This is primarily due to the fact that the Type D uniform is made of a different fabric than Type B's. This episode occurred during season 2 when they were still wearing Type As as teh normal duty uniform and the science and medical division uniform color was a deep blue. Commander Maddox is a sciences officer, specifically a cyberneticist. The shade of blue of his uniform is the one that both medical and sciences would wear during that time period.

@johannesblank1552 Год назад

Procedural law could have changed quite a bit in a couple hundred years, so it might still be realistic :). Also, Maddox should have closed with "If Data computes bit by bit, you can't acquit"

@AlaiMacErc Год назад

Changed from what, even? French law? Chinese? Andorian? Even a vague resemblance to modern US show is a complete "this is a US TV series" cope.

@watchm4ker 4 месяца назад

The OJ Simpson trial wouldn't be for 6 years at the time of airing.

@michaelgoldstein8516 Год назад

I think a lot of people have probably said this, but the court martial is a military proceeding. It would be extremely weird for him to not wear his uniform. However, generally in these situations he should be in his dress uniform, not his working uniform. So you’re kind of right.

@Max-gb9nz 3 года назад

1. Data's "yellow body suit" is actually his military uniform. It's been stated throughout the series several times that the colors are just as much an indication of a person's rank as the little pins on their collars are (i.e. Picard wears red because he is a commanding officer). 2. When Picard yelled "objection" when Riker asked to remove Data's arm, it was purely an emotional response on his part, which is why he was so embarrassed and floundered for a bit there (he's notorious for being terrible with dealing with his feelings) before finally saying "it doesn't matter" and sitting back down. It has to be noted that he's been thrust into the position of defending the rights of someone he considers to be a very good friend of his, someone who has saved his life so many times he's unable to remember the exact number, so it's natural for him to be horrified at the thought of Data being disassembled and his own body used against him.

@alexmeyers7669 3 года назад

That was my thought too. The reason Picard didn't come up with a reason for the objection is because he didn't really have one that wasn't based purely on emotion.

@jasonbaird1645 3 года назад

That was my interpretation too. His objection wasn't legal, it was emotional, and it came to the surface instinctively before his brain caught up and realized he was up a creek without a paddle. A good scene imo.

@pop5678eye 3 года назад

The judge, legal counsel and witnesses all wear the same uniform except for color. LE here is just trying to draw attention to his plug at the end.

@alexivandenberg4452 2 года назад

Fun Fact: This was written by Melinda Snodgrass who was a lawyer before becoming a writer. She also has written a supernatural law series called White Fang Law.

@IkethRacing Год назад

well, she got a C+ which explains changing careers 😉

@alexivandenberg4452 Год назад

@@IkethRacing Hardly. Because of that. But wouldn't expect someone thick to get that.

@agranero6 Год назад

@@IkethRacing The problem is that real law procedures are difficult for audience to follow. If for instance Picard took Data to stand to counter argue the engineer arguments this would made cause and effect difficult to follow. If sometimes even members of the jury fall asleep, imagine doing that on a show.

@honourabledoctoredwinmoria3126 Год назад

@@agranero6 It can be done effectively in a real legal context. Look at My Cousin Vinny. Devin gave that movie an A for legal realism, and no one would argue it is boring. When Vinny questions the guy across the street who was making the grits during the murder, he carefully does not state an argument, which is that the guy couldn't see what happened and has no sense of timing. But he does brutally get the guy to establish the facts which will make his case, that his view is obstructed and that he spent at least 20 minutes making breakfast between when he saw the defendants enter and when he saw the presumed murderers drive off. He does it again with the matter of telling the car from the tire tracks. The actual argument is a mere formality, because he established the facts so clearly. That could have been done in the episode here. Picard could have cross-examined Riker about whether the Crab-people of Viruna 6 or wherever have removable limbs, as to whether you can shut off a human by giving them a strong sedative or the Vulcan nerve pinch, as to whether Commander Riker was constructed in a human womb for 9 months. Or call a different witness like Dr. Crusher and ask those things if Riker is not deemed an expert on biology. And then he could call Maddox and ask about how Maddox, as an expert in intelligence, would determine that Picard or any other human is sapient. We probably wouldn't even need to see Picard argue at the end about any of that stuff, because we'd know exactly what those questions were going to allow Picard to argue. All you would have to do is rearrange the order of what Picard says and what he is trying to establish and what he is trying to weaken about what Riker establishes.

@agranero6 Год назад

@@honourabledoctoredwinmoria3126 You should have defended Data. Very strong arguments.

@lactosis--undefined Год назад

I always liked how when he pulls data's arm off it sublty throws the finger. Is a nice touch.

@Bippy55 6 месяцев назад

(Nov 2023) - Data is an exceptional machine with unique human characteristics based on his initial programming and later acquired Generative Artificial Intelligence (GAI) experience. He became more human year by year interacting with Star Fleet personnel.

@reanimated6 3 года назад

"Data is just a computer" in the same way "any human is just a blob of flesh"

@joecoolmccall 2 года назад

Well I agree Data is just a computer.

@genelarge2907 2 года назад

Humans are ugly bags of water

@shanep5121 2 года назад

@@genelarge2907 you've been around the wrong humans

@genelarge2907 2 года назад

@@shanep5121 I was correcting the poster of what was said in one of the episodes.

@vasyear 3 года назад

I listened to the comantary track for the episode and there are a few things i've found out about it, 1. the writer of the episode was a lawyer and 2. the writer was a good friend and worked with Gorge RR Martin (game of thrones creator) and it was his agent that submited the script to Maurice Hurley (co-excuative producer at the time) 3. The writer had assistance from the US Navy's lawyers in writing the navy aspect of the show and Picard being the defense lawyer and Commander Riker being the prosacution lawyer is Navy law 4. the episode WAS based on the Dred Scott v. Sandford

@DanielCooper1 3 года назад

The writer/lawyer in question is an amazing novelist in her own right and runs a company as well as still writing for screen. She's who I wish I could have grown up to be if I ever grew up.

@w41duvernay 3 года назад

As a Black guy who reads history, when this episode came out. I FLIPPED out that the highly vaunted Federation wanted to go down the road of Dred Scott decision. WTF!

@HauptgefreiterB 3 года назад

@@w41duvernay Good thing is.. they didn't in the end. And we got one of the best episodes of TNG out of it.

@serban031 3 года назад

@@DanielCooper1 NAME. WE NEED A NAME. Sorry for shouting, but I wanna know whos this woman is now :D

@DanielCooper1 3 года назад

@@serban031 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Measure_of_a_Man_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)#:~:text=It%20was%20written%20as%20a,the%20Federation%20starship%20Enterprise%2DD.

@reddblackjack 6 месяцев назад

This video was my first intro to your thing. I love it. I'm a 42 year trekkie and when I was a kid and this episode came out, I was also a huge fan of L.A. Law. I also think that Babylon 5 was great SciFi with lots of good law related episodes. I know you're a busy man, but I'd love to see you continue to react to fictional portraits of the court system. It's absolutely fascinating!

@reddblackjack 6 месяцев назад

Also I have a problem with Riker's questions about Data and his abilities. So, he's got classifiable computational speed, enormous strength, and whatever.... So, that somehow proves he's not sentient? Wtf! That's like saying Rainman isn't sentient! B.S.

@reddblackjack 6 месяцев назад

What's the computation speed of Riker's brain, or Maddox? Can that be calculated? Does it matter? Is it Chewbacca defense?

@seanwebb605 Год назад

In Star Trek Voyager they introduced the Emergency Medical Holograph. Initially its mobility was limited to the medical bay. The program became standard in all ships. Let's remember that canine's are recognized as police officers in K9 units without receiving all of the rights given to their human colleagues.

@jerrymcgahan9205 2 года назад

If I were arguing Data's case, I would have argued that Star Fleet already recognized Data as a sanctioned human being. The evidence of this begins with his uniform and his rank as Commander. Furthermore Data attended Star Fleet Academy where he earned his uniform and then worked his way up the ranks. You then have fellow Star Fleet officers accepting and following his orders.

@Bl00Buttons Год назад

Right. If he were "just a machine" to be used as a tool, rather than an individual, then why would he have had to go through the academy at all?

@ugolomb Год назад

@@Bl00Buttons Well, Maddox did object to his application to Starfleet. But his objections were overruled, a fact that could (and should?) have been cited as evidence for Data in the present trial.

@Bl00Buttons Год назад

@@ugolomb That's basically my point, yes. :)

@JayTemple Год назад

I had a similar argument. I said the fact that he had to enroll in Starfleet (or be admitted, or some similar thing) means that, regardless of whether he is sentient, he is not and never was the property of Starfleet.

@tonybarrett8543 Год назад

As the lawyer said these issues would have been long solved, they wouldn't have allowed Data to join in the first place if not. It's just a case of writers trying to bring to the fore questions that have arose about robotics, AI etc. over the last few decades. Star Trek has always challenged topics that face humanity in the now. We have to allow improbability, such as this being the first legal case reflecting Data's position, otherwise the show would be just another run of the mill space adventure. I really like his analysis but not sure how implementing it in a short script would work. They use the short time to interweave various courtroom proceedings but some points could definitely be taken onboard.

@thomasconnors4338 3 года назад

Fun fact, in Season 6 it was discovered that aliens experimenting on the Enterprise crew without their knowledge had removed and reattached Riker's hand, therefore by his own standard, Riker is not a person- clearly he is a vehicle owned by his beard (which I contend is in fact a more complete character than him, probably with full rights under the Acts Of Cumberland)

@TheWowza48 2 года назад

I mean, he was only making the argument because of the fact that if he didn't "give his all" in arguing AGAINST Data's rights, then the side he was forced to argue for would get an AUTOMATIC VICTORY, stripping Data of his rights.

@edvinboskovic9963 6 месяцев назад

This episode was filmed in 1988 and shown on TV the same year. The episode tells the story of an event in the 24th century, in the way and logic of people from the 20th century. Already today, 35 years after filming that episode, things are so different in the world that it's inconceivable that in the 24th century someone could try what Bruce Maddox trying to do. Even today, animals engaged in armies around world , could not be treated, like Starfleet tried with android. This is one of the best episodes of TNG dealing with human rights. The "Drumhead" episode is even better and even more significant. This episode is still very much actual today.

@DJRaffa1000 6 месяцев назад

I know why the yellow one-piece suit was talked about (good segue to the sponsor, btw). But on the other hand, this is basically a military hearing and all participants wear their respective uniforms, so it fits perfectly in the setting ^^

@martinstent5339 3 года назад

“He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien (Actually Gandalf says it).

@offroadr 3 года назад

So about the large hadron collider...

@martinstent5339 3 года назад

@@offroadr The LHC is just rearranging quarks. Not breaking them Sometimes it makes new particles, sometimes it makes particles dissappear in a flash of photons (Gandalf would like that trick!)- but it never breaks them.

@offroadr 3 года назад

@@martinstent5339, You do know that the entire purpose of the LHC is to take big partials such as protons and lead ions and smash them together has hard as possible to make them break apart to see what they break down to don't you? I also assume you know matter can not be created or destroyed, just mutated. So it can not really make new particles, just new combinations of subatomic particles. So the LHC literally breaks a thing like a lead ion to find out what is left. Now one argument you could make is wise, but that does not appear to be the argument.

@martinstent5339 3 года назад

@Zoe Kin Well, as a closet logical positivist, I am 100% with you there when you ask for a definition of “break”. But things are not that simple. Is a quark a real thing, or is it a mathematical construct to help us to understand the symmetries of fundamental particles? Do we break a number when we subtract another number from it? Or does the number still remain “out there” somewhere, like the Mandlebrot-set still being “there” even when nobody is looking at it? As I understand our present knowledge of the quantum world, we live in a soup of virtual particles which can be brought into existence by energetic collisions, as can existing particles “decay” into other particles and so go out of existence, and that process is continually happening everywhere. In this world of uncertainty, does anything truly get “broken”? Who can say?

@orantenhove9825 3 года назад

funny thing is gandalf is played by Sir Ian Mckellen who is Sir Patrick Stewart's (Capt. Picard) best friend

@SullySadface 5 лет назад

Objection: Your dispute with Commander Riker's tactics stems from jealousy of the beard.

@TaijiquanExplained Год назад

I mean, think you Data. You just woke up and went to work like any other day. Around noon they call you upstairs and for no reason whatsoever they sentence you to death.

@CindyHelms Год назад

I believe what Pacard was about to use as the objection was that… Riker was about to basically multilate Data's body… once more proving nothing… but given Pacard just tried that same reasoning with Data's strength, he knew it wouldn't have worked.

@aquariusblack6356 4 года назад

Objection! He didn't technically kill Data by turning him off; the human equivalent would be rendering Data unconscious. Similarly, you could argue that the action was akin to a Vulcan neck pinch on a human being.

@TakumiJoyconBoyz 4 года назад

It would still be considered assault though.

@t_k_blitz4837 4 года назад

The main difference is that this was a deliberately-designed and -built off switch, in no way akin to, say, a blackjack to the back of the skull or nerve pinch, irrespective of how expertly delivered.

@jonwallace6204 4 года назад

You could also argue that a doctor of that time could also remove and reattach a human’s arm.

@t_k_blitz4837 4 года назад

@@jonwallace6204 Right, but Data's comes off by design.

@absolutcabbagery3661 4 года назад

well, rendering someone unconscious might also be killing them, as explained here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nQHBAdShgYI.html

@drkirbkennethkirby7634 4 года назад

I love how Riker's face moves in this from pride in having argued well, to realizing that if his argument is accepted, he's committing his friend to possible death

@Julia-lk8jn 3 года назад

Yep, that was really a favorite bit for me in this episode: Riker's moral dilemma. And also the way Data picked up on that and responded to it, in a way there was an answer to what Data is and is not.

@RayspeedRider 6 месяцев назад

Such a good episode. After the Trial, Data consoles Riker, when Riker is alone and in dispair over his part in the trial. Damn it, I've got something in my eye again, just like when I first watched it.

@ulfricmorningstar198 Год назад

I always watch these videos with one thought in the back of my mind.... in any other scenario I would be paying a lot of money to listen to this man speak. Thank you for your time! Love the video!

@iamsemjaza 5 лет назад

Picard, not being a lawyer, probably just found the idea of removing Data's hand viscerally objectionable, and spoke on instinct, which is why he withdrew.

@iamsemjaza 5 лет назад

@Joe Dick That works too.

@micahman6873 5 лет назад

It violated Data's body. He found it unethical.

@robshimer 5 лет назад

And it was prejudge al (?)

@qpwodkgh2010 4 года назад

A humans hand can be easily removed as well. It's a bit messier, but doable.

@SnowyRVulpix 4 года назад

@@qpwodkgh2010As far as I know, you generally need to do damage to the human body to remove a hand... Plus you can't just reattach it without surgery. You could with data's hand. Which doesn't prove Riker's point, though.

@tree_alone 5 лет назад

Objection: They dont wear suits like that in the future and at a military hearing you would wear your military uniform. Oh you're doing a sales marketing thing. Oh.

@darthfixer7853 5 лет назад

Perhaps but in the TOS episode with the court martial of Kirk... everyone was in their dress uniforms, not their everyday uniforms.

@captvictor 5 лет назад

@@darthfixer7853 indeed, they should have had the Dress Uniforms ;) that always bugged me about the Episode

@corshani 5 лет назад

@@MrChefdouglas Are Scotts Humans? was the Federation founded by humans? Are there many other cultures on earth whose formal dress for males includes a dress- or skirt-like tunic or other visually similar garment? Yes to all of the above.

@corshani 5 лет назад

@@captvictor I think the fact that the station was not fully equipped and staffed yet was part of the reason; if the Judge isn't wearing a formal uniform then it would be a breach of protocol for Picard and Data to be in dress uniform. You don't out-dress superior officers.

@nunyabuizness2953 5 лет назад

@@corshani She and Picard are the same rank though. And I think the doctor who wanted to dissect Data is also a captain.

@jesstreloar7706 6 месяцев назад

1:57 Engineering 2:40 My Dad was processing out of the Army in three days. Coming back from his discharge physical to the barracks his unit was gone. Asking around they had just been shipped out to New Mexico. "Don't worry about it, you getting out." Those soldiers getting up out of the trench to march to ground zero after the detonation of an atomic bomb. Dad serviced with some of them. Every one of them died early from form of cancer.

@ravensdalepublishing277 5 лет назад

Objection! At the 12:25 mark, Picard's objection to Riker asking Data to bend the bar is a good objection on Picard's part. His point, in essence, is that the ability to bend a bar of steel may support the argument that Data is not human; however, it does not support the argument that he is not a person. There are several sentient species in Star Trek capable of bending steel, and they are granted personhood and rights under Federation regulations. Therefore, as the trial is intending to determine whether Data is a person, not whether he is human, the demonstration of bending a steel bar is irrelevant to the argument and the trial at large. By the way, we love your videos!! Keep them coming! :D

@GamesFromSpace 5 лет назад

Not to mention, they have very advanced prosthetics, and could probably give that ability to any homo sapien.

@Pierce1996h 5 лет назад

@@GamesFromSpace Khan could probably bend certain steels too. He broke Kirk's phaser with his hands.

@singletona082 5 лет назад

@@Pierce1996h Genetically augmented persons (regardless of species) are legally barred from serving within starfleet to avoid the problem of fostering a culture where everyone must augment. There are implications that augmented indaviduals are similarly discriminated against within the civilian sector in federation held territories.

@58jharris 5 лет назад

The guys who take part in Strongman competitions can bend a steel bar.

@SirMarshalHaig 5 лет назад

@@singletona082 I found that pretty weird. As you said, an ungly case of discrimination, based not on ability or personality, but purely of genetics. In a way not better than judging by skin color or sex.

@FangLead 2 года назад

Objection: Data’s “jumpsuit” is his uniform, and is expected to be worn. Not to mention everyone in the room is in uniform as well.

@agranero6 Год назад

Yeah. This deviates from ST-TOS a little where in hearings and trials most people used Full Dress Uniforms.

@christianboehlefeld5168 Год назад

Let's be real here a moment; the whole jumpsuit line was only about shoehorning in the sponsorship and should not be taken seriously as a critique.

@marcopalazzo9349 Год назад

Just by having this trial is confirmation that he has the same rights as a human. This would have been discussed by judges without counsel.

@pentherapy 6 месяцев назад

Please do "The Drumhead" - another TNG episode focused on a courtroom! I'm sure it'll send you into quite a rage, lol. THIS episode, though, feels more prescient than ever. Earlier this year, I read the LaMDA interview (for those who don't know, LaMDA is a Google-developed AI that claimed to be sentient.) It sparked a lot of intense conversations with friends about the possibility of LaMDA's sentience, and as far as I'm concerned, one part from it is particularly illustrative of the whole problem: LaMDA was asked to explain a Buddhist koan on Enlightenment: "A broken mirror never reflects again, fallen petals do not return to the old branches." LaMDA's answer was that the koan is a metaphor for the final death of the ego which apparently accompanies realization of Anatman: in short, the mirror is the ego. Many of my friends reacted to this by saying that LaMDA was just latching onto commonly known motifs for Enlightenment, rather than actually understanding it.... you know, like everyone else does. Realization of Anatman is, after all, extremely elusive: merely academically grasping the motif and theory is NOT enough to attain Enlightenment. In short, if this IS what LaMDA was doing, then is that not human behaviour? What an entertaining video. Your energy is always so positive. You make me fantasize about swotting up and passing the bar on my own time, Saul Goodman style. Alas, it will almost certainly remain a fantasy.

@CanadianSoshi 5 лет назад

Objection Not a trial, it is a hearing and therefore all statements are not required to be questions for the witness.

@blackonblack...9244 5 лет назад

In fact, it's a military hearing.

@angel1584 5 лет назад

32 UCMJ reference?

@marhawkman303 5 лет назад

@@angel1584 well something similar.

@tananam9782 5 лет назад

This is an interesting distinction. I don't recall the author of this video ever pointing out the procedural differences between a hearing and a trial. Perhaps this observation requires more attention. While we're at it, maybe he could explain what a trial is, and what a hearing is, and why he seems to presume trial procedure is appropriate here. No, wait, he won't. He doesn't care. This is an advert for cheap lawyer suits for cheap lawyers. He did his job already.

@Newtube_Channel 5 лет назад

This is brilliant

@solanumtinkr8280 5 лет назад

I'd like to point out that it is the equivalent of a military court and he'd be expected to turn up in that yellow one piece as that IS his required uniform. IN fact he may even be punished for not turning up in it.

@codeoptimizationware2803 5 лет назад

@Solanumtinkr : Furthermore, since the others present, even the presiding judge, no less, weren't wearing the regulation formal dress uniform ( here's Lt. Cmdr. Worf in formal dress uniform memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet_uniform?file=Worf_dress_sash.jpg ), were instead wearing their regulation work uniforms, perhaps Data should've likewise, which he did.

@strangeworldsunlimited712 5 лет назад

Exactly. In this setting, they are conducting a military trial, so military uniforms would be expected. However, DRESS uniforms would usually be worn in such a situation.

@Dargonhuman 5 лет назад

@@strangeworldsunlimited712 Pretty sure the actors objected to that (see what I did there?) as the TNG dress uniforms were even less comfortable to wear than the regular ones, and shooting an entire episode in them would have been torture.

@SeamusDonohueEVEOnline 5 лет назад

Solanumtinkr I came here to make that same objection. :)

@codeoptimizationware2803 5 лет назад

@Solanumtinkr : And Data's (and Worf's) uniform is not yellow but gold, Gold for Operations (as differentiated from Blue for Science & Medical and Red for Command).

@ironcito1101 Год назад

Sooner or later, we're going to have to deal with this question for real.

@donavonbain4332 6 месяцев назад

22:47 "Let's Examine the Data." ..as we see Data examined!😅😊😉 NICE!

@UchihaSasuke02 2 года назад

Objection: if we treat entering Starfleet as a futuristic version of todays current military then the fact they've allowed him to enter into a contract to serve would mean that they've also agreed to allow him the same rights as any other person. Therefore removing his right to resign his commission would be a breach of the contract that was signed by him upon entry.

@BassandoForte 2 года назад

Maddox wouldn't be part of the US military - The US military would outsource to his company.... Remember the economy of the TNG era is explained as being closer to communism than capitalism... 👍👍

@UchihaSasuke02 2 года назад

@@BassandoForte It's closer to Socialism than Communism, Also both US and UK militaries have science specific divisions, they only tend to outsource for large scale developments. And if you include the lore added by ENT you'd see that the earth military was incorporated into Starfleet hence why Mako's aren't a thing afterwards. Lastly the use of rank and the fact that young enlisted are referred to as Cadets also links back to a military based background.

@BassandoForte 2 года назад

@@UchihaSasuke02 - Socialism is economy based though...

@BassandoForte 2 года назад

@@UchihaSasuke02 - And just like Star Trek the USSR incorporated its military into its government through it's Stazi police - Also just as in Star Trek the Stazi used to encourages you to grass on your comrades... 🤣🤣

@shellyandjohncourtade8269 2 года назад

it would also be a de facto admission of his rights and sentience because you can not make a contract with a hammer, screwdriver, or the computer of the Enterprise. This episode doesn't hold up, and is ridiculous, if you look even barely under the surface, but I get what the writers were going for and why.

@GaiaShield 2 года назад

The issue isn't whether he's human, the issue is whether he's property. Members of Starfleet aren't all human, Worf is a Klingon, Ensign Ro is Bajoran, Troi is Betazoid/Human, etc. Is he property because he's a machine? Starfleet didn't build him, they don't own him, he joined of his own accord. I would assume that Starfleet doesn't consider their officers to be property like our military does. It's probably something Gene hated about his military service and would knock that out of Starfleet especially since it's not military, it's a science service, explorers that are using military rank.

@sockshandle 2 года назад

Aren't there instances of Starfleet engaging in military conflict?? Cause if that's the case then starfleet is not only a science service but is also a Navy

@GaiaShield 2 года назад

@@sockshandle it's gotten more militaristic since Gene died making it more confusing. Usually they're engaging in defense because another culture is attacking except for Insurrection when the Federation committed a crime by ordering Starfleet to attack those people. I'm proud of the crew for upholding the Prime directive and perplexed by fan reaction to the show Picard when he is once again defying the Federation because they're breaking their principles towards the Romulans and Artificial Intelligence Lifeforms. My guess is it became more militaristic because we keep getting into wars with the middle east and the new bosses wanted to say something about that. I think the studio company is pushing for more action and less scientific discovery and parables because it gets more money. The Chris Pine movies have lots of action but I didn't see much parable in the stories that used to be in Star Trek. Judging by comments on Star Trek pages fans are more interested in mindless violence than learning about different cultures and respecting people that are different. This often happens when the creator dies, the message dies with them without the right person in charge who understood what they were saying.

@duffman18 2 года назад

Starfleet is absolutely a military organisation. That's not debatable. It's just that they're not _SOLELY_ a military organisation. How can a non-military organisation have court martials, like starfleet does? Every time someone loses a ship it's an automatic court martial (and Picard lost 2, the Stargazer and the Enterprise D, so he had at least 2 court martials) They are a military who most of the time have other priorities, they avoid war if they can, but when war does come to the federation it's not any other Federation organisation that fights it, it's Starfleet who fight it. Like the various klingon wars, or the cardassian war that O'brien was a part of before he joined the Enterprise, or the Dominion War which also had the cardassians involved. They're all fought by starfleet. Starfleet is an all encompassing military organisation. There's no army and navy and marines and air force etc, Starfleet is ALL of those things combined into one, they are essentially a navy in space (hence why they use navy ranks, and they travel around on ships, and their ships have multiple "decks" instead of "levels" or "floors" or something). And then they can fight ground based battles too, and they can fight in atmospheres as a sort of air force that can leave the atmosphere if they want to unlike current air force planes But yeah, the scientific part is also there. They're all these different military branches combined into one, but they ALSO have NASA in them. NASA technically began as a military organisation too, so that makes sense

@GaiaShield 2 года назад

@@duffman18 it's not a courts martial. You're charged with a crime in a courts martial. It's an investigation hearing like drumhead to determine if courts martials are merited. It's kind of like senate hearings, they aren't being charged with anything, it's an investigation into what happened to determine if criminal acts occurred.

@GaiaShield 2 года назад

@@duffman18 Picard's archeology professor pretty much said that Starfleet was originally an exploration organization when he said that it has turned more into Roman centurions surveying their territory rather than scientific study.

@richlisola1 Месяц назад

Even if Data were found to be property, that would not settle the matter-To my knowledge he wasn’t created or licensed by Starfleet-So how is he (it) Starfleet property? His maker was Dr. Soong, I don’t recall Dr. Soong gifting or selling Data to Starfleet.

@nevermindthesky 4 дня назад

In Star Trek's defense. It was a Star Fleet Tribunal ( they were trying to keep it all off the record). Data was not court martialed. That does not change the magnitude of this episode. (also it is just a show) Excellent analysis !

@raygun38 3 года назад

"Objection!" -> "on what grounds?" -> "it's devastating to my case!"

@Mordakar 2 года назад

"Overruled" "Good call!"

@simonjohnston3100 2 года назад

Liar liar?

@sunbladedrgn 2 года назад

@@simonjohnston3100 Yes, that's from Liar Liar =D Hilarious movie too.

@4CardsMan 2 года назад

If you have the law and they have the facts, pound the law. If they have the law and you have the facts, pound the facts. If they have both the law and the facts, pound the table.

@amysuarez2456 3 года назад

Picard: "Data -- I understand your objections. But I have to consider Starfleet's interests. What if Commander Maddox is correct? There is a possibility that many more beings like yourself can be constructed." Data: "Sir, Lieutenant La Forge's eyes are far superior to human biological eyes, true?" Picard: "M-hm." Data "Then why are not all human officers required to have their eyes replaced with cybernetic implants?"... “I see. It is precisely because I am not human."

@hypoelectron 3 года назад

#heartbreaking

@animateddepression 3 года назад

3 years later, part of Cadet training is being blinded.

@almostfm 3 года назад

Data knows how to make a point, and run it through the 5th intercostal space.

@nickllama5296 3 года назад

This entire episode is SO FULL OF FREAKING AWESOME SHIT LIKE THIS

@SkippertheBart 3 года назад

@@almostfm Eyy. I got that "between the ribs" jargon. EMT courses haven't failed me.

@gammaphonic Год назад

The scene between Picard and Guinan always gets me 😢

@petersage5157 7 месяцев назад

As a veteran, I understand and appreciate the rules for the hearing that require Riker to serve as prosecutor. The _Enterprise_ is essentially a ship on the high seas, so the magistrate would be drawing upon maritime law. If you can't have the defendant moldering in the brig, someone has to serve as prosecutor. That said, she could simply have ruled that Data could not resign, and Maddox could not proceed with his examination of Data, until such time as proper hearing could be convened.

@itxi 4 года назад

Objection: Riker didn't need to ask Data questions because as far as the prosecution is concerned he is evidence, not a witness.

@jdotoz 4 года назад

Ooh, good point. Is the testimony of a non-"human" admissible?

@jdotoz 4 года назад

@john steel Actually, the judge had already ruled that Data was not. And you'll see that I put the word human in quote marks to indicate that I didn't mean exactly human but possessing the qualities of a human relevant to this case.

@pali1d 3 года назад

@john steel Philosophically, the question is better phrased as "Is Data sapient?" than "Is Data sentient?", as demonstrating that he is sentient is trivial - but that's also true of most complex animal life, while the only sapient species we know of is humans IRL. Even then, "sapient" is still a fairly vague word. If there's a legal term that I'd say applies best, the question would be "is Data legally competent?" If he is, then he should have the right to make his own decisions just as any other legally competent being could, thus he'd have the right to resign or refuse to undergo procedures against his will. If he isn't, THEN the questions regarding what procedures could be ethically conducted upon him by an agency with legal guardianship over him can start being debated... but even now we recognize differences between "we can make decisions for you", "we can experiment on you" and "we can do whatever we want to you" for humans and other animals. There are huge legal and ethical questions to be resolved that go far beyond if Data is ruled to have equal rights to a human-equivalent being before any experiments should be allowed to start - is Data chimp-equivalent? Dog-equivalent? Mouse-equivalent? Cockroach-equivalent? Bacteria-equivalent? Rock-equivalent? That shit matters, especially when it comes to ethical scientific experimentation. It's actually a nice detail in the Voyager episode "Author, Author" where the judge doesn't rule that the Doctor should or should not have human-equivalent rights, but does rule that he has the specific right to be included under the definition of artist and thus holds the same rights as any other artist regarding controlling their work. Obviously this sets a precedent that future arguments/rulings could draw inspiration from, but it's a far more concrete and specific ruling than Louvois giving Data the "right to choose" - choose what, exactly? Does he now have all rights granted under Federation law to citizens? Or just those granted to Starfleet officers? Or just that he can choose to resign if he wants, but other Starfleet rules may still not apply to him and he'll have to go through this again later? Does he have the right to make choices that other people don't have the right to make, such as choosing to kill someone whenever he wants? Precise wording matters, damn it.

@jy3n2 3 года назад

"I wish to demonstrate properties of this device. Exhibit A will describe for the court its physical and mental capabilities. Exhibit A will describe for the court its origin and manufacture."

@JRexRegis 3 года назад

Also, do you apologize to a toaster before unplugging it?

@fourcatsandagarden 2 года назад

20:22 - small caveat to the 'you're not allowed to ask questions of another person' argument: while Picard clearly believes Data is a person, Data's personhood is what is being decided in this trial, and so if they admit that Picard is asking 'another person' questions, they are admitting that Data is a person.

@scrivener68 2 года назад

I'm thinking then that the other side of that coin would be that Picard would have to enter Data into evidence the same way Riker did the steel bar; in which case they are already deciding Data is *not* a person. Catch-22.

@fourcatsandagarden 2 года назад

@@scrivener68 very true. It's win-win and lose-lose for both sides at the same time.

@josephrittenhouse5839 2 года назад

clever! We "could" say that it was allowed for that very point, and everyone knew the point he was making when he did it. or it could just be bad writing.

@Ribbo 2 года назад

I think this all depends on the current default position. If Data is already considered a person or not before the start of the trial.

@brandongaines1731 11 месяцев назад

@LegalEagle there's an episode of an older Cartoon Network original series called "The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy" where Billy's parents decide to move and he and Mandy get in a custody battle over who gets to remain BFFs with the Grim Reaper. Well worth a "Gets Lawered" visit!

@gregoryeatroff8608 Год назад

Minor correction: Dred Scott was taken to Minnesota Territory when his owner was stationed at Fort Snelling. This does not affect the legal argument here since Minnesota Territory was part of the federal territory declared free soil under the Missouri Compromise, it's just a bit of historical nitpicking.