As a rare book dealer for the past 35 years I’ve examined a vast number of original mid 19th century paper items of all types, paper ephemera including letters, pamphlets with inscriptions, hand written manuscripts and documents, stamps, items sent through the mail like periodicals, endless sheets of paper with old folds, old stains, various signs of handling, etc. I’m very familiar with how old paper looks when it’s genuine and how it looks when it’s been tampered with or created later to look older. To my eyes those stamps belong to and are correct with the cover, no question about it. What is revealed on the surface of the paper by removal of them is what confirms it, not to mention the stamps uniform age patina, etc. What a great video! Loved it.
Yea paper of the period is a challenge if not impossible to forge but scary to see it happening. I went to an antique mall this past week and found a coin case filled with replicas of old American coins. Yea they were labeled as replica. Scary for me as an investor! They looked good.
I think it is also more than reasonable to assume that people of that time could have been less than totally fluent in the nuances of the correct postage rates of the 1840's than we are today for an obscure letter such as this.
Absolutely a possibility! The dried stamp however points to it being folded after the stamp was affixed, but there are so many things that could or could not have happened to this cover over its life, it makes for a fun investigation 😊 Thanks for watching!
That was a point not explored - and by no means unlikely- indeed arguably points to the letter being carried in a pocket etc to purchase the stamps. The handwriting is not that of a habitual writer of the period, and the random placement also indicates a lack of experience with the process - although who was, in 1840, 😂
What if the person who sent the cover folded the letter - to fit into pocket/small bag - before taking it to the PO to have stamps attached & sent off?
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@@ExploringStampsit is 3 months now since the video so it should have been expertised by now. Have you an update on what was the final result? My gut feeling was that it was fake with additional stamps added to a genuine cover where one or two actually belonged. But I am no expert and there are numerous conflicting characteristics which make an educated guess difficult. But with all the technology and expertise now available, a more definitive decision could be made. A fascinating video but a cliff hanger too for sure and I would love to know if it had a happy ending. He must have bought the cover from a quality auction house to have an item like that in just a mixed lot. I wonder what else was in there and what he paid for it. I can imagine some boisterous excited bidding for it and the final price being in 4 figures.
Absolutely fascinating discussion about this cover and those four gorgeous stamps. While I cringed watching the handling of the soaked paper, the focus of the inquiry was really insightful.
Graham, congratulations on another episode that should certainly cause some philatelic discussion. If it was my cover, I think I would have preferred to submit it to expertizing committee at the Vincent Grave Greene Philatelic Research Foundation in Toronto where they would have examined it using the Video Spectral Comparator made by Foster Freeman to see all the details including any marks under the stamps rather than soaking the stamps off cover. If it is genuine, I would think the value was decreased when the stamps were removed.
Thanks Les, there certainly is an energetic discussion taking place here and online from this video. A VSC scan would be excellent, I think the owner of the cover will be submitting it for a certificate again, perhaps it will be a different committee that has access to a VSC to confirm that nothing was painted on. Thanks so much for watching!
That was so fascinating, I really thought soaking it would be so risky, and devalue the cover. I’ve only started collecting recently and on a steep learning curve. Great video
Not much of an expert this person is. The 8d rate is correct for a ship letter to the US. This cover traveled on the Great Western, as written on the bottom left which was indeed a non-contract steamer, departed Bristol September 12th, arriving in New York Sep 27. The 1/ rate was for a Cunard contract ship. That black circle on the right side in different ink is the postage due at New York of 6 cents. The lesson here is that we learn NOTHING by soaking the stamps off. Do not mess with potentially valuable pieces people, there are other modern techniques to evaluate whether a piece is genuine or not. If this cover was genuine, I'd guess half its value is gone now.
Thank you so much for your comments, I will follow-up on this, the stamps are definitely my expertise but transatlantic rates - I asked several specialists and none came back with what you have suggested, so very interesting to hear indeed as this was a key part of the expertising board originally giving it a bad cert. That is why we decided to do what we did in the first place
@@dickdoyle1 Well, I'd say that performance definitely earns you the title of MrBeast of Philately. At least no one was hurt (physically), in the making of the video. The more I look at all the details the more I think the cover was genuine. I made a short video for you, I hope it helps: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LhK4_-XI6xc.html
I am unclear how the post office that determined the rate would know the ship on which it would be carried, unless the sender was offered a choice rather like first or second class? I notice that the "from" in "from Great Western" was covered by one of the stamps so preceeded the stamp. Is it indeed "from" or another word? "For" would make more sense but it does not look like that.
@@kroo07 I always interpreted the routing indication was the archaic use of the word "Per" but I am not a native English speaker so I may be wrong. Keep in mind that these were not random departures. Dates of sailing and ship names were published in advance on newspapers so of course they knew what the options were.
Fascinating. I have acted as a consultant to a well known expert committee and so would suggest that expert knowledge may help. The puzzling aspect for me is the incorrect rate to the USA. Although this was sent at the very beginning of postage stamps, sending of unstamped (bearing) letters to America have a much longer history. So it should have had the correct rate. If a specialist can convincingly explain away this anomaly then it probably is genuine.
مرحبا ، أرجو تزويدي بمعلومات عن طوابع ألاحتلال البريطاني على العراق بعد الحرب العالمية ألاولى عام ١٩١٤ ،وتم فيها أستخدام طوابع المقاطعات الهندية و التي كانت منضوية تحت القيادة البريطانية والتي تعرف بقوة ألاستكشاف الهندية .مع الشكر والتقدير
Not sure where the 'evidence' for it being fake is. For example, as others have said the crease was probably on the letter before stamps were attached. It was normal back then to write the letter then send it to the Post Office where the stamps were attached. It is also said that it was the wrong rate but when the stamps were removed there is a clear 8 written on the cover. Ship rates could and did vary, often on the whim of the captain.
Another great video, Graham! Personally, I would have taken a leap of faith and not removed the stamps from the cover. Surely, with photographic equipment around today the crease would have been found on the stamp without lifting it. Authentication is very expensive but with a cover like that, if I had the money, I would be getting a second or even a third opinion. 🙂
I hear ya Rick 😅… I was super nervous watching this and it wasn’t even my cover! Let’s see what happens next, the owner I believe is resubmitting the cover to a committee for certification, I wonder what value it will be sold for if proven to be authentic. Thanks so much for watching!!
Another excellent episode! Interesting that there is an "8 d?" under where one of the stamps was placed and that 8d in postage was added around the cover in order not to interfere with the US address. There was also a Uniform Penny Postage rate back in 1840 where 'incoming' ship mail was 8d. I would be highly interested in an update once they sort this cover out. :)
Really enjoyed watching that, thankyou, including the owner. I am a very amateur collector of QV used stamps and covers. I also do calligraphy and like to study old handwriting, again completely amateur. As my opinions are worthless in this context I will merely list my thoughts, for and/or against:- 1. First reaction was "surely not genuine", but I would certainly have wanted to bid on it in a bargain mixed lot; 2. I was nervous that the writing of "William Randoll" is either a different hand, a different ink, or done at a different time to the address; 3. Really, really liked the number 8 under the top left stamp, I noticed initially that the rate was missing; 4. Did not like some of the stamp corners, that looked a little rounded or worn, on the three LH stamps. I would expect these to be neatly square unless all the stamps has been cut and handled before affixing; 5. Why did the sender seemingly have two goes at the number 83. Perhaps they realised the need for stamp space and rubbed or rinsed the first attempt; 6. The two sheet adjacent stamps were cut with a relatively sharp knife or scissors. The other two appear to have been cut with some type of serrated scissors and with an unskilled hand. If they were from the same sheet one may expect, although not necessarilly, that either or both of one implement and one person might have cut them; 7. The "from Great Western" is also a different hand to the main address; Thankyou.
Thank you 😊 glad you found it interesting! So many factors to consider and questions to ask, such as the ones you bring up! I’m hoping to see this cover go back to a committee for certification and perhaps get more answers now that the stamps have been lifted… let’s see! Thanks so much for watching!!
Suspect for me was the ship letter postmark was incomplete under the 2d stamp, and the MX lower right corner. I've actually bought stuff from Robin in the past a very reliable dealer.
Nice action, I occasionally do some soaking myself, but limited to common stamps. I agree that lifting stamps for expertizing or examining is fine, love to hear what others think
Thanks Erik 😊 the comments section here has some interesting and different perspectives about soaking covers and whether this one is fake or not 🤔. Thanks for watching!
Interesting and instructive video . Not sure about the decision to use such invasive techniques to confirm or otherwise its authenticity. If nearly all the visual cues corroborate , and they seem to do so, then the main question is about the stamps. The fact that the envelope could have been creased before the stamps were affixed is not conclusive either way. Although 'reasonable doubt". Removing the stamps is not only destructive, it challenges the intrinsic and extrinsic value of the cover. There are plenty of investigative techniques that could have been employed; spectrophotometry and spectroscopy. to examine authenticity including substrate analysis. all of which would not necessarily have been expensive given today's technology. Shame really
Interesting, but if it is real wouldn't taking the stamps off affect its value, it isnt original anymore. I know nothing about stamps but it looks real to me or its a pretty amazing forgery considering how long ago it must have been done given the shading of the paper under the stamps.
Enjoyed watching this episode! Seems with all the new tech available now to scan the letter soaking would be the last option. Especially on a 5 figure item. Wish the owner well on authentication. 😊
I collected stamps as a kid......holy shit...this episode had me on the edge of my seat. I guess I still must be a lover of stamps. Soaking it in water? Whoa....that alone killed me. Hell...this was better than MOST American movies... Fairly intense, but an incredible vid...I'll reiterate this again - THIS is the most AWESOME stamp channel IN EXISTENCE. Nothing beats it. Thank you for making stamps exciting and invigorating OLD and NEW COLLECTORS!...and yes, I"m 59 by the way.
Thank you, Kees 😊. I definitely wouldn’t dare do it to any of my cheap covers, let alone a five figure cover. Robin’s client is brave!! Thanks for watching.
I've seen this cover before. I personally wouldn't be happy buying it. The negatives still outweigh the positives for me. I was bitten many years ago with a 1d black plate 4 on cover. Superb 4 margin, full mx on stamp, not tied. I decided to soak it off, it didn't look quite right. It had a thin on reverse and also pl 4 written on the back! Amazing for 1840!........not. I've learnt a lot since then.
Incredibly interesting episode illustrating how the very experienced in the trade examine, evaluate, and asses the value of an item that may or may not be authentic. Thanks Graham for this brilliant insight.
There is always a possibility the cover is part real and part faked. It's possible the stamp with the crease is genuine, but one or more of the other stamps/postmarks are fake. Someone with a valuable cover may still be greedy enough to want to attempt to convert a valuable cover into a super-valuable cover by faking additional bits. I would be sure to investigate each stamp and postmark individually for authenticity as well as the cover as a whole. Do the postmarks add up to a real journey? Does the 8d postage paid correspond to the right postage for that journey? Does the seal have right wax composition and colour for that period? Is the handwriting of period? Are the manufacturing techniques and composition of the paper in the envelope correct for period? And so on. Also, who's to say an astute forger doesn't realise that creasing a faked cover may add integrity to their fake and do it deliberately to deceive? There are so many factors at play here to determine authenticity, not only the four stamps. I don't think it's ever possible to discount all scenarios, and authentification is simply the best interpretation that can be made on available evidence, not a factual statement of what actually happened, because in reality we can never know for certain.
Absolutely!! All very good points, there are soooo many possibilities that could potentially explain the cover. I’m very curious to see what a different certification group may say with what we now know about the cover with stamps removed. We will have to get updates from Robin!! 😊 Thanks so much for watching!
It could have been, but if the stamp was on the envelope at the same time as the envelope was creased, the stamp would also be creased in the same way ...which it is. If the stamp had been fixed to the envelope after the envelope was creased, there would be no crease on the stamp. The question is... who creased the envelope? If it was the forger, they could have added the fake stamp, and then creased the envelope and stamp to try to make the cover look genuine. There are so many possibilities. :)
In The Netherlands, postage to the colonies was at a reduced rate compared to common overseas destinations. Also people somehow connected to the army or the merchant fleet could send goods and letters at a discount. This continued for some time after the independence of these colonies. It would make sense the UK had/has a similar discounted rate for those destinations and individuals, which would make the franked amount lower than usual. In 1840 it'd been only 84 years...
Totally possible! There are a few folks in the comments here and online that are discussing the different transatlantic rates with this cover, revealing some things that the expertizing committee may not have considered… hoping for an update on the owners decision with the cover soon 🤞
The fact that the paper underneath the stamps showed up to be lighter ie protected by the stamps from fading / discolouring prooved to me that the thing was genuine , those stamps had been on that bit of paper for a long time .
Learned a ton from this video!!! excellent guidelines on what attributes to check and making deductions based on evidence that can be observed on the cover, trying sequence forged activity and how it would result or look like… super video Graham!!! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
I lived in a house once and one entire wall say 15 feet x 12 feet x 12 feet was covered in English and the latter Australian Stamps. Tens of thousands of them. NO internet them so to study them would have taken someone with rare experience. The House was demolished and the Stamps lost. All the stamps were pre decimal currency. To me the question was how the hell did someone collect them? many were not post marked. Maybe a Thief? But in those days companies like electricity and gas received thousands of letters a day with cheques in them. It would have been someone who worked in such a place who would have collected them.Probably gave them to a child who diligently pasted them on their bedroom wall.
I would say that the uncorrect rate is the biggest problem to solve. It is true that if the 8 d. franking is not sufficient we should find tax markings on the cover, but it is to be pointed out that similar markings would be found also if the letter had travelled not franked (and the stamps added post mortem, so to speak)
This is fascinating and my question is about where the letter came from. Was it sold by a family member of the writer or the recipient? Was it in the family until someone sold it off? Wouldn't that go aways towards confirming it's authenticity? It's an idea I've had but of course I'm no expert in this kind of thing at all.
It’s a good question BuzzaWuzza. In some cases, provenance can totally support the authenticity of an item, knowing its origin and who held the item over its lifetime. It sounds like this was part of a larger lot that was won at auction, and no decent details about its history came with it, so not in this case it seems. Thanks for watching!!
I don't get it. Potential value of 5 figures, then the letter is covered in water - and the ink could have run. The stamps have been taken off and it turns out to be genuine. Ruined, surely?
We will see! Robin recently confirmed that the cover is being sent back for certification, although it might be a different expertising committee, I’m not sure. But if proven now to be authentic, then we will see if it achieves a 5 figure sale price:
Hi, just for clarity as mentioned in the video, the owner requested the stamps be removed ; historically this is a common practice so that stamps may be inspected for faults ; the major international certifying board had given it a bad certificate, it was looked at under light, but to enable a full inspection the stamps had to be removed. As I think you can gather from the video, this is not something I especially would normally do or recommend. Hope this helps. Best regards, Robin
Glad you enjoyed it. The channel is ending soon I’m afraid, recently announced in the final mail day episode. But make sure to check out the other vids from Stampex
Wow, it's screams authentic to me. The shadow of clean paper where the stamps were, the absense of the ship stamp underneath the stamp (visible from the back) the common plate letters.... I cannot believe that there was really any question over this. Now they have been removed the piece is seriously compromised. There is no way Id have removed those stamps from the cover! Also, the guys handling of the fragile cover was appaling. So much for the 'pros'....
Somehow I smell a falsified postal item. As the stamps are not original from this envelope, but both parts are genuine. A marriage. What makes me wonder that no microscope is used, a stereo one is very useful to detect not matching marks. A 100% falsification is nearely impossible to make due to the enormous effort.
I never really understood why people use insufficient postage amounts on a cover as evidence that the cover is probably a fake. I'm sure that there are thousands of letters travelling through postal systems every day franked with incorrect postage, and without any postal markings indicating them as such.
There’s no longer original gum on those stamps, they have definitely dropped in value and the cover has been tampered with and it’s never going to be completely the way it was originally. I would buy it after this egregious display
The stamps could have been soaked off without endangering the cover as much by putting drops of water on the stamps with an eyedropper. Or just the 1 stamp could have been.
Although I’ve never done or seen this, I’ve heard that exposing the stamps to moisture for 24 hours can free them from the cover. I’m guessing an eye dropper as you mentioned would be sufficient 🤔.
Thanks, great video. Interesting point that it is common practice on the “continent” to hinge the stamps back on. Looking at the comments I am inclined to agree with those who think that the removal of the stamps significantly undermines the value as it undercuts the argument that it is genuine, ie as it was originally prepared. It may not be a forgery but it is less than it was.
It's a tricky one to get your head round, but the issue was it had been given a Certificate as faked by a major Certifying body, so therefore (even if it is genuine) is only saleable as a fake with that Certificate, in the condition it was. With the new 'evidence' it may prove to be genuine and therefore the value will be greatly enhanced, even though the stamps have been soaked off. They can be hinged back in place, and the whole story will give it extra impetus/provenance as well
@@dickdoyle1 True! The cover is now RU-vid famous and has been seen by philatelists all around the world :D. I'm excited to see what happens next with the cover, please keep us updated.
I think that the same type of x-rays used in fine art investigation - forensics should be used - to determine authenticity, following the four principles of fake - as used by Jean de Speratii - paper - ink - period -reapplication , ie - chemistry - light refraction - material aging . I f a masterpiece is taken out of its frame - it was never the same as when it was first put in its frame - its has changed - and ultimately its authenticity has been tampered with - however - only a few would know - so there is the rub.
1. Could this investigation not better be done with non destructive methods like infrared as they do with paintings and so keep it's value when genuine? 2. Could the paper be creased before used as an envelope?
Does not look faked. The London postmark looks genuine. If the postmark was fake it would have better impression detail and not a light cancel. Should not have soaked in water.
Looks like the missing two stamps were right centre vertical and top right corner horizontal. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-petUBsmG-qc.html
What was the rate from England to New York? In the video it is mentioned the rate was not 8p. If it was 7p that means a 1p overpayment but that may have been necessary if there were no 1p stamps at the post office. So the sender didn't care and paid an extra pence to get the letter in the mail asap.
Thanks i got postage cards with old stamps on from first world war which found in our attic i will have to get them valued also some old Navy postage cards thanks video
One day they'll be able to put them in a CAT scanner like machine and it'll sequence the DNA of the glue and it will tell us in 2 milliseconds whether or not they belong together.
Great show ! In my humble opinion, this early Victorian cover including the stamps is absolutely genuine. What we need now, is a positive certificate from an expert committee, based on this examination. Greets from GER, U.
Some fascinating investigation work, it will be interesting to know if it gets re-evaluated. Also be interested to know what the valuation will be after having the stamps removed.
thrilling video about when he soaked the letter but as collector as myself is not dangerous to soak stamps if you know what you doing, and there is common with forgeries sadly
Thank you 😊 Yes sadly there are many contrived covers out there, I hope this video brings some awareness to newer collectors to keep an eye out for things that don’t look right on covers before purchasing them. Thanks for watching 😊
Hi Graham, this is my second time watching your video. The first time, shortly after publishing, I didn't get to writing a comment. 🙂 This lengthy explanation to say it was worth it to watch a second time. An excellent detective story! I don't know enough to give my opinion, but for me it feels wrong to have soaked off the stamps for investigation. I am sure one could first have gotten a second and third opinion at other expertisers. Especially since the cover as is is worth so much. It was scary to see the stamps being soaked off! 😵💫But I am sure Robin knew what he was doing. Thank you so much for preparing this interesting episode, Graham and Laura.
Oh dear this is crazy removing the stamps and not distilled water! Surely placing it on top of a light box would have shown the detail above or below the paper including the crease, the light box doesn't have to be strong just a little bit stronger than the light in this room as you can already see markings on the paper in this video. I certainly wouldn't want to purchase these stamps knowing they have been removed and then reglued.
Hi, just for clarity as mentioned in the video, the owner requested the stamps be removed ; historically this is a common practice so that stamps may be inspected for faults ; the major international certifying board had given it a bad certificate, it was looked at under light, but to enable a full inspection the stamps had to be removed. As I think you can gather from the video, this is not something I especially would normally do or recommend. Hope this helps. Best regards, Robin
People have been putting stamps upside down and sideways from day one. All countries. US, Canada, Great Britain. I have examples of all of them and you can easily Google images of them. The way you placed a stamp on an envelope used to have special meaning. Those days are gone but the covers still exist.
As one who collects stamps from this era (and knows Robin extremely well), I have a further thought. The stamps come from the same sheet beyond doubt. The chances of 4 stamps from the same sheet all coming into the hands of the same collector are remote, UNLESS the stamps were acquired in a block of 4, which the letterings here do not allow. I have quite a number of 1840 2d blues and no two are so alike in shade and appearance as these 4. The only likely way 4 stamps from the same sheet could be found together is if they came on separate covers from the sale of a law firm's archive. I have several cases in my collection where stamps obviously from the same sheet appear on different covers and all are addressed to solicitors. This is because solicitors often get several letters in quick succession from the same correspondent and they often store them together for a very long time. But even if someone acquired 4 covers with closely matched stamps, their value would be so considerable that butchering them to fake this cover would be an enormous gamble. Very intriguing. I shall ask Robin what the outcome was when I next see him.
Bravo. Although I don't think I could have plunged that into water. I would go into convulsions. I'm surprised that he did not focus on who and where. There's a lot to look at on this cover. I have a strip of 5 of the darker blue with black crosses. Strong crease but I don't think I will come across another any time soon. Time to read all the other comments. I'm glad people still care about the heart of collecting, and history. Nice work gents.
Great video. I thought I saw Robin, the surgeon of stamp collecting, and I really admired his skill at dissecting stamps, and I was amazed by his audacity, but judging a true or false, any move is appropriate. I hope I'm not the last person to see this video, thank you Graham
Really gripping. Far more so than Fake or Fortune which is is so much more contrived. To see the process as it happened was wonderful. I truly reckon a series of these would get significant viewers and can cover much more fakery - eg, thins, reperfs & similar.
Apparently it can still sell for 5 figures. It’s on its way to get a new certification using what we now know from soaking the stamps, and then would go up for auction… so we won’t really know until it’s sold if the value is significantly less, let’s see!
I'm intrigued by the fold being visible on the front of the item but not on the back. I wonder if there was something enclosed in the envelope which could have caused it?
Perhaps the cover was creased before the stamps were added on later. Also the stamp on the envelope , wouldn't the stamps be well stamped with the red cross...quest is why was it creased in the middle? and when. i also noticed the 1 of the stamps letters was J J isn't this also a rarer combination of the same letter. Great and interesting vid, Graham.
With regard to the rate, stop the video after exactly 15 minutes. In the top left corner, where one of the stamps had been stuck, there is what looks to be to be a clear figure eight. It may have been the right or wrong rate (my understanding is that ship captains had some digression when charging for mail) but if we agree it is a figure eight what can it refer to other then the cost of postage? There was a question about the placing of the stamps. Why is that a problem? Clearly the address was written before the stamps were placed on the cover. Doesn't everyone do that? The stamps were then placed where there were big enough spaces for them. Far from the evidence being 'mixed' the physical evidence suggests very strongly that it is totally genuine, if now somewhat destroyed. I would like to see it again with the stamps put back on - what do you use to do that which is not going to damage the paper? Perhaps the video should have a different title. . .
Thanks to several comments such as yours, Robin and his client are actually going to submit the cover again for certificate, I’m curious to see what will come of it. There is a strong belief that 8 is indeed the rate, several other examples have been brought up that show an 8d rate across the Atlantic in 1840. I’m not sure how the stamps will be placed back on the cover. What title would you suggest for the video?
Will be very interesting to see what new committee think of it. Would I be right guessing that the first one was the RPSL? I was somewhat surprised that having looked at all the evidence the conclusion on the video was that the jury was still out. Also, and this may be so obvious as to not being worth mentioning on the video, that the stamps were all plate 1 (as far as I can tell) which is absolutely right. Alternative titles perhaps something along the lines of 'Just because it looks good does not mean bad'.@@ExploringStamps
I used to collect stamps when I was at school,had a lot of good commonwealth stamps.My brother took the stamps to school and sold them.He is very very lucky to still be here
The experts or “actual philatelists” as you say immediately judged it wrong as a fake. This is likely not a fake, and the client may be getting a certificate now that it has been properly looked at :)
"Now that it been properly looked at"------"LIKELY NOT a fake"??": "MAY be getting a certificate"? What are you trying to say? What happened after it was "properly looked at"????? ITS A FAKE.
@@jayare2620 they found no evidence of it being a fake, especially now that they got to look under the stamps. Also the rate has been proven to be the correct rate for trans Atlantic letters, other examples have turned up from viewers and experts after watching this video. So let’s see what happens next, Robin believes it could still go for 5 figures🤞
I'm fascinated how you can know that without seeing it. I'm a very experienced collector and I wouldn't commit to any opinion without examining it in person.
