Reality Is Not As It Seems 

“When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.” ― Max Planck

“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.” ― Max Planck (100 years ago) so basically; an eyeball that sees everything, will never be able to look directly to itself

I have a friend who has what appears to be a psychologically based illness. Thirty years of knowing her, I met her as a 21 year old in a nursing home.She was in a wheel chair with a helmut on but full of fun but said at the outset that she thought she had dystonia, but she grudgingly confided that the doctors at a big famous clinic had said she had nothing wrong with her. I bought into her personal theory and we took her places and she would come up with different symptoms over time that I believed were real. She would occasionally have a hand curl up as if she had no control over it. She had "seizures" but never with me. I thought the world of her and still do. Fast forward 30 years and we had long since moved and gone on with our lives... and so had she... but one day I ran into her and after that sort of went by for visit's every few months or so. One day I noticed her foot moving alot.. as if she had control over it. She had always thought that she was paralyzed. I said if your foot moves and you can feel your foot, you must have good nerves working. She discounted it. The next time we went by, we were sitting on her bed and talking when the subject of how she slept came up and she said she had to use the restroom in the middle of the night. I said what did you do... I went to the toilet she said. But how I asked. I managed to get over there by holding onto things as I went over to the rest room. I was no longer a little young believer in what she believed but I said... Hey that means you can walk. I was elated at the possibilities of us having lots of fun doing stuff together. I said, " In fact I would love for you to help me in a special cause. You would love it." My excitement was noticible, but so was her denial. In fact when I called her a few days later, she said she was in the E.R. and for me not to contact her again. I must have blown her whole world up. I feel something may have happened in her childhood to make her feel so bad that she had to cripple herself. I've seen guilt do horrible things to a person. But am still praying for her.

You don't see reality as it is, you see reality as you are...

I'm going to bring a physicist down to my mortgage lender to explain my house is not really there so why should I pay my mortgage

The awakening is here!

This panel really needed Bruce Lipton and Joe Dispenza! One thing not mentioned is that perception also has to do with our experienced reality and language. For instance When Columbus landed in the Caribbean the natives couldn't "see" the ships. Ships boats even canoes were not part of their everyday language and/or experience. It took an elder staring at at the three demarcation in the water After many days contemplating the dips in the bay they finally were able to actually recognize the three large masses which were the ships. Eventually were taught the words for ships. This egs the questions, what is in our "reality" we can't "see" because we don't have the link of experience and/or language. Do we live in multidimensional reality and just not recognize it Just like we think time is real yet it doesn't exist

I recently had a seizure and lost my short term memory for about 3 months you certainly wonder about what reality is I had no concept of time witch was really strange

My God if only All Scientists in all Fields of science had this humble approach that Dr. Hoffman displays. I have never heard this term before from any scientist that You Have to produce what Will most Certainly be a false theory that at some time will be proven wrong and then keep on moving to another false theory that will be proven wrong but learning more each time etc....etc....!!!! What a beautiful humble approach that truly is the way a scientist Should be!!!! Also if consciousness was Before everything else,before time and space,then It is getting harder to deny the existence of "God" because where Chould It otherwise have originated from????

Donald Hoffman just blew my mind. The idea that reality as we know it is merely a dumbed down graphical user interface of infinite number of conscious agents is absolutely akin to what I resonate with. ❤️❤️❤️

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.” ― Max Planck

"we haven't made much progress", The work has already been done, the information is all there in the sacred geometry, the spiritual works over thousands of years, the Flower of Life.

in a way, he's describing the universal consciousness. we all share it, weather we are aware of it, or not. we all project our thoughts into it. and i wish that people would stop filling it up, with their bad thoughts and ideas, that could, end up, being our reality

This woman is speaking the gospel regarding my situation. I collapsed and landed on my head after taking certain medication; and because the neurologists havent found a malignant tumor, nor any other disease they continually dismiss my headaches symtoms, which is effecting my energy, memory, and overall personality. I have medicaid and it really is a class thing when considering the doctors we have access too, and how little they care, and how much theyre able to dismiss and get away with the lower you are on financial spectrum. Even here though, someone as compassionate and concerned as this neurologist infers that if the brain doesnt heal itself then even the most qualified neurologists have no answer. Its wild, considering my life changed in one moment, and the fact im living in a time period with no solutions for my symptoms.

I have to wonder if anyone is qualified to say what reality really is. But many people are absolutely sure they are.

Through out the lecture, every word of Don Hoffman resonates with what we Indians have held as a very basic, rudimentary knowledge of our spiritual traditions - it is very difficult for Western minds, esp. scientific ones, to get rid of their prejudices to see the "real world". I believe what will happen in future, is every aspect of Vedantic philosophy of India will be worked out in the form of equations and models and the World will wonder why we wasted time for so long ?? That being said, its unfortunate the great sages of Ancient India will not be acknowledged...and instead a trivialized version of the same will be "developed" and sold to the World as original work Nevertheless, Dr. Hoffman and many scientists like him have to be appreciated with utmost sincerity.

The kind heart, sees paradise everywhere - Buddha

I can't get my head around the "fact" that we are an accident. What would be the point of there being a Universe without life within it? Our "design", our "physicality" may be an accident, but personally I struggle with a concept that our consciousness could be. Unless everything is vividly imagined subjectively, maybe for the benefit of an objective, maybe to understand the most magnificent example of a perfect puzzle that could ever exist - A cosmic joke; The missing "dynamic" may be considered to be the merging of "spiritual" and "physical". One being finite, the other infinite. Scientific knowledge in the present, and the golden ages of ancient wisdom from the past.

I've said this many times. In order to see the truth we must first work on our perceptions

Rely on conscious experiences to interpret world 1:17 Introducing Donald Hoffman 2:00 How accurately reflect our perceptions reality 3:27 Do organism that see reality as is survive better  4:00 Jewel beetle survive with visual trick 4:28 Cortex and synapse complexity 11:16 Systems approach reverse engineering 11:48 Future chance of progress in brain research 13:50 Very important concept not yet explained 14:35 Connections 15:40 Deep learning 15:55 Why no accurate perception of reality 19:40 Desktop  interface  example of abstraction 20:01 Truth gets in way of understanding 20:50 Are we just machines 27:53 Turing machine 28:30  Real problem Smelling coffee  ..  sensations 29:30 Hard problem of consciousness 31:05 Predictive coating 38:40  Neuralcorrelative concsiousness 38:56 Brain activity and conscious experiences  39:49 Evolutionary reality distortion 39:55  Language of space and time wrong language 40:00 Brain activity does not cause conscious experiences  40:48 Consciousness is fundamental  41:16 Consciousness outside world of matter 41:54 Conscious experiences and not space time 42:28 Top brains say Space time ST is doomed 43:20 Quantum gravity..  Let go of ST 43:45 ST emerges from something deeper 44:20 Abstract non physical gives birth to ST 44:50 Consciousness before Big Bang 45:30 Ultim reality is big batch of social networks = conscious agents  45:50 Does matter exist 47:16  Take matter very seriously but not literally 48:00 Definition of reality 48:33 Local realism and non contextual realism is false 53:00 Classical world quantumworld kopenhagen interpretation 55:10 Mirror  what you don't see 57:55 Simplify 59:50 Left right brain consciousness cut corpus Colossum 1:02:40 We are not one single agent of cons agents 1:03:55 Good LB RB explanation 1:04:44 Adaptive behaviour reality 1:14:17 Science religion 1:15:30 Science of infinite consciousnesses 1:17:00 Micro biom 1:18:00

...”the universe is mental in nature”, states the great hermetic wisdom of the Kybalion, consciousness is the path.

Apart from the taste of chocolate, the smell of garlic and the feel of someone's touch, what about the sense of "I am," the knowledge that you exist. "You know you exist, you don't think you exist." NM When you wake up in the morning, along with you the world arises, you are Brahma (Creator) and as you live through the day, you are Vishnu (Preserver) and at the end of the day when you fall into deep sleep and the world disappears, you are Shiva (Destroyer), and the cycle repeats itself.

A lot of this Hard Problem started when Descartes Begged the Question: he assumes what he sets out to prove before he gets to the end of the first word. All he is logically justified in saying is "Thinking is, therefore consciousness is." WHOSE CONSCIOUSNESS exists is the REALLY HARD question!

I sometime feel like I took both pills 💊 the blue one and the red one... I think I know what I know, but at the same time, I know I don’t know anything! I feel stuck in this physical World even if I know that there is so much more! I know that my reality is the deduction my brain concluded on, with the sensory I’m experimenting, but I also know that my reality is not everyone else reality’s, thus making reality, kind of a point of view, Does that mean reality is created by consciousness and consciousness comes from my perception of the matter, I’m made of?!?

Fascinating representation of two different minds agreeing in different ways

Absolute consciousness is the fundamental reality. Thanks for saying it in beautiful detail Donald!

Those who have experienced their consciousness perceiving while being outside the body know that what we refer to as soul is in fact consciousness. It does not die with the body, it leaves the body. If consciousness has an attribute it is personality and not a sense as the neuro scientist seems to be attracted to though he does not know what to believe. Consciousness can never be impirically understood because it is unmanifest though it perceives that which is manifest. It is the greatest mystery about our life on Earth.

This assumption about what the blind can do. The lady who greeted the doctor in the hallway? I'm completely blind, have been blind since birth. I can recognize footsteps and voice and breathing. Don't believe me? I'm no different from you. You recognize those things all the time. You hear who is coming and know who it is before you turn your head. This has always been my problem with the medical profession. Now, I've neverseen so obviously, taking hallucinogenics, while fun and interesting, doesn't show me any lights. When I've left my body, it's been perceiving things the way I do now, using sound, which is 3 d at least. Anyway, her perception of disabilities is why I often have an easier time with alt med people than the traditional, who decide ahead of time what a blind person should or shouldn't be able to do. I had a nurse tell me once I was faking blindness, because I hopped up on the table by myself, and when she turned some light on, I knew it was on. I knew it from the heat. If someone is going to make such startling assumptions about you, how can you ever really trust them? That said, I know medical people who didn't make such assumptions at all, most of them have a more naturalistic approach. Anyway, not like she'll see this. That lady just heard the doctor's familiar footsteps, familiar mannerisms. This is so easy, people, because you who have full sight are doing the exact things with your ears that any blind person does. You recognize familiar footsteps and a familiar voice, but you are visually focused on your computer screen. You have the profoundly good sense not to discount that ability in yourself. Just extend that to some of the rest of us. Not offended, but just putting this out here. And this is why the natural people outcompete you no matter how snarky and cranky so-called rationalists get. Not terribly rational to assume a blind person isn't gonna recognize you, and sometimes like all senses (including vibes / energy) they will get it wrong. Mine isn't fake: I have no optic nerves. Your rattly MRI machines proved in the 90s what they said in 1971, no optic nerves. I know she will never read this, but hopefully others will. This is why the nature people outcompete you and will continue to. This is akin to saying a monthly cycle of a woman is all in her head, is hysteria. All profound in its foolishness.

You all need to start watching Nassim Haramein and his explanation of what consciousness is. That'll blow your minds!

Hoffman seems to be saying what Buddhism implies, consciousness creates space time events, forms

Fantastic discussion by two very comitted passionate scientific professionals. Thank you !!

It's like they're having two completely separate conversations

Alcoholic withdrawal caused me some crazy time-warp issue where I had verifiable memories that couldn't possibly have happened yet when I had them...as in, time doesn't exist like our brain tells us and when it goes hay wire....it's becomes clear the conciousnes really is a seperate entity recording everything simotaneously (so if the brain completely crashes it's all still there and continues to be recorded in the cloud.... human spiritual energy understanding ( which used to seem silly) is like "Profoundly" more accurate in understanding the so called mechanics of our western scientific minded fact based brain studies are. Chakras Chi meridians and human biofields have completely changed my view in life "is".

Thoughts and feelings create reality. This is what she is finding in her cases where physically no reason not functioning . Connecting neuroscience to physics would be good

try this one for size. your hard drive gets full up, it is where your computer memories are stored. it's a machine. but how come your brain never runs out of space to store memories ? the brain has a limited amount of space, why is it, never full ? where are your memories stored ?

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness." ... Max Planck, 1931

Read "The Fifth Agreement" by Don Miguel Ruiz. Why? How to think outside of the box? First, and without which all energy is completely wasted. Is to think outside of the box, one must first understand you are in one. Even to communicate is reinforcing the constraints of the "box" Please read. Thnx!

Well, after reading many comments I’ve seen that the audience is very smart, maybe these people should learn more from us. 💕🙏🌈😘

Way to go Don! ... YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK! ... keep going! 👍

People educated by and in the matrix explaining reality within the matrix. 😂

Until someone can make sense of how I was able to leave my body while asleep and see what was going on outside and then when I woke up and looked outside I seen exactly as I saw it when I left my body, then I would have to believe the conscious mind is separate from our physical brain.

When I look at myself I realized what I had created

Fantastic and I mostly understood it. Yay!

fascinating talk- thank you!

Dr Hoffman's proposals tend to lead to the following possibilities: The only reality is consciousness. Space/time is not reality. Matter is not reality. Apparent, limited human consciousness and all it produces is illusion. There is only One Consciousness of which we are infinite individual expressions. Real Consciousness is only Spiritual - unlimited, perfect, eternal. This explanation is like E=MC/2, a brief statement resulting from a very complex process.

We're all just walking each other home - Ram Dass

One of the best discussions about our reality and the ways to better understand consciousness.Thank you so much for sharing.

DMT. Breaks down the interface. Shows you the math behind the curtain.

Wow! Dr Hoffman just blew the lid right off my jam-pot. Fascinating stuff. I don't know, but it seems he would benefit from a few sessions in Dr O'Sullivan's surgery. Yet his proposals intrigue me. I'll see what other stuff of his is out there. Man; I'm out there!

Were we really put here to figure out how everything works, including ourselves?

I have a great deal of respect for your panel members. They are clearly sincere in their quest for truth. May I suggest they take an objective and respectful look at the work or Dr. Michael Newton. His two books, "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls" have provided me with invaluable information in this arena. I would also recommend "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot.

Dr. Hoffmann really is the frist scientist I have heard to touch openly on the biggest tabu of the scientific community and even on our whole current paradigm in total. And she has not a clue what he is talking about. Well, can you blame her. 😘

2 levels of conversation running concurrently if you are able to catch it. These two are slamming each other over and over. It's funny to me.

Excellent discussion. Thank you.😊

Don needs to point out that the huge number of other participants have to be taken into account. Because we, as individual minds, are constantly interacting with all of that and centering our beliefs about our common reality, the result is rather concrete and seemingly intransigent. But looking closer and closer, all of that concreteness and intransigence vanishes.

This was fascinating and extraordinary to have to very different concepts by the presenters and I think it’s very beneficial for anyone much less for students of medicine.

So fascinating....Groundbreaking! 😇

they leave out the metaphysical you'll never find your answers in the FLESH only

So much about this wonderful conversation speaks to the importance of emotional or psychological safety and experiential learning for optimal human development.

It is our conscience mind becoming aware of the fact that we are in fact unconscious that leads us to become conscious of being conscious, that we realise the collective ability and power of humanity to create our own future. What you think is what you create. If what we have is what we have created and your are not happy get off the fence and start seeing a better future where all humans are equal, loved and taken care off. The more that do this the quicker it will be achieved. The time is now for people to take back their power, or give it to those who will use the disinterest and ambiguity to take full control. B IN & WIN or B ENSLAVED.

"blowing my mind" "are you saying consciousness precedes the big bang?" Yes... why would that be hard to perceive? Do the laws of physics precede the big bang? Yes, they would have to right?

I like this vid .good discussion..

I'm really hoping that one day as I walk down the street huge red letters appear before me saying GAME OVER!

Someone who has never seen a bus will NOT draw the same bus we draw! See Gombrich's "Art and Illusion" comparing Durer's drawing of a rhinoceros (1515), Heath's 1789 engraving of one, and a photograph. YOU will not draw the same CAT I draw (and oh sure, we just draw what we see!). In fact, one of the reasons we draw is to LEARN how to see.

As Robin Williams quipped in the 70"s, Reality, what a concept!

“Reality is not as it seems Nor is it otherwise” -lankavantara sutra Asian thought centuries ahead of your academic children.

Reality is exactly whatever you honestly think it is. All you have is your best guess. All you’re really guessing about, is how to permanently get rid of literally all of your stress. That’s why you animate at all. And as you find more of this “peace” you’re seeking, you animate less because it’s less necessary. It looks to me that if you could assure yourself permanent riddance of all the activity on your nervous system, which I equate to being all of your stress, then you would no longer animate. We don’t really seek eternal life except but to buy ourselves more time to find the eternal peace that we really seek.

There's nothing like the hubristic arrogance of humans to tell another human being how they feel. Or that they really don't feel it. Wow.

That woman literally said you should not trust yourself and she does not trust herself. I think I will put her on the list of what not to trust first and never put myself on that list.

So great from 39 to 49 mins.

I once read that when we look at items, we only see part of the picture and our brains fill in the missing pieces.

I am dreaming all this ,when I wake where are you ?

If physical reality doesn't exist when we're not interacting with it, how come a CCTV system works? Is he claiming The CCTV has its own consciousness separately from the humans that created it? Or maybe that the CCTV is just an extension of our interface? If solid objects only exist in our consciousness, what purpose do they serve? Why does evolution then struggle so much to balence life? Why does suffering exist? Why do illnesses exist? If we stop perceiving we have cancer, and chose no treatment we most often die. If physical reality doesn't exist, why are there poisons or pollution? There would be no benefit. Why is death present, if consciousness is the only true deeper reality.

Calling Roger Penrose a crackpot really isn't very smart

I've been literally pondering the interface and perception my entire life as far back as I can remember. And if my blue is more like your purple or orange.. maybe that's why they like a different color than me, they see their favorite like how I see my favorite.. Loved this talk. 😊

The interface between the individuated consciousness and all physical and non-physical exchange is the personal focus of attention. Attention is directed awareness. Awareness is the reciprocating relationship between pure assertion and pure reception. Perspective is projected or asserting awareness and perception is receiving awareness. It's not a cause and effect relationship. It's a constant reciprocating relationship. Shift perspective and perception reciprocates the shift and vice versa. It's not a "deeper" foundation, it's a more subtle foundation with ever expanding reach. It's not linear, it's the overlap between things and actions, between verbs and nouns. It's presence and we're experiencing that presence as and through our personal focus of attention.

Excellent in every way!

I can't believe that these researchers and their auditorium don't know or don't speak about the Hinduistic/Shivaistic cosmological model. That made the same assumptions a few millenia ago.

I"m no expert in this area, but I think there are recorded cases from medicine where damage to certain areas of the brain seem clearly cause for alteration of function in consciousness, i.e., cancerous tumors in the brain followed by a tendency to have severe hallucinations, etc. It's hard to see how this could be explained if the 'user interface is generated by consciousness. It seems more likely to be explained the other way around, however clueless science may be at present explaining it. I am sympathetic to some aspects the theory advanced by the guest in this video, at least insofar as AI advocates likely fail to appreciate the importance of sentience in the general program to create intelligent machines (at least if the program is in any way related to what people understand as genuinely and meaningfully crossing a boundary between machines and sentient beings). I think it's also clear that we cannot really know objectively 'what's out there', as our mind creates only mappings of some kind, probably, as the guest suggests during the video, based on adaptive utility. The all-encompassing way in which we are ensconced in these maps makes it very difficult to assess what may objectively exist separately from them. With present knowledge, only speculation is possible.... My best guess is that there *is* something out there, but presently nothing we say about it is verifiable. Yet there is some reason to believe that there a correspondence (of some kind) exists between our perceptions and objective reality, considering the complexity and sophistication of our perceptions, and subsequent processing of our perceptions, which would be pointless and counter-productive (without survival value) unless there is some relationship between perceptions and the things they represent. We may be able to learn more about the possible relationship by studying the perceptual systems of other animals. In many cases these are similar and in many other cases significantly different from human apparatus. Further study can provide a broad sense of the strategies that have developed over the course of billions of years to adapt various creatures to successfully negotiate the environment -- assuming that environment is an objectively existing world. Whether quantum physics denies the existence of an objective world or not is a matter of opinion, I think. While it is true that most physicists agree that unobserved systems exist in states that span probability sets, this does not mean that nothing exists. Most likely we are just adapted to operate in the macro world where solid appearances and specificity of location are consistent with experience. I think it can be safely assumed that seeing, hearing, tasting, etc., do not directly apprehend anything real. Light waves aren't really red or green or blue, and sounds aren't really musical, harsh, annoying, consonant or dissonant; these things are products of our minds. Likely also most logical constructs, cause and effect, space and time, etc. Since we already know that what our senses persuasively suggest to us as being real is not real, being particular about the ontological status of various micro-world phenomenon is probably beyond the scope of present understanding.

What is great about Don Hoffman he admits he could be "wrong" and dedicating his life to find the scientific version of "truth"! May I suggest to invite with him always with somebody religious minded or a personalty like Yogi Sadhguru, Eckhart Tolle...etc !?

I once faced a possible danger knocking on a door. When the door opened, in a split second, my body was moved aside and a huge flower pot came flying out to where I had stood moments before. what the heck happened?

Wonderful conversation

Very good thank you ☺️

O'Sullivan and Hoffman's expertise compliment each other so beautifully! Wonderful discussion.

The substrate behind "TimeSpace" is Fields. Only their effects are quantifiable in space and time, not the field itself, much like consciousness, and they may very well be the source of consciousness.

Surely computers will fail to understand us when they're based not on what we are, only on what we think we are?

The knowledge of vibrations and rhythm, and the speed in which they operate might be a good place to start.

I Intuit that we create this reality realm but also exist outside of it ... Unity interacting within polarity ... In a fractal and thus everywhere at once manner ... Our essence just is ... but it exists before polarity ... Which marks everything with change or time.

just one more thing… Extremely interesting that One would say “truth has nothing to do with it“

Billions and trilions ha? How do they know? Did they count them one by one? Even in neurology they are full of asumptions

Its funny that as we become more technically advanced, the more it seems we ourselves are an advancement of technology. We may be literally building and working towards explaining what we are without knowing it...total inception.. Everything is pointing towards this but its very hard for the old guard to let go. It truly seems we are AI software running on the same O/S.

A study that investigated the idea that the sense of smell is due to recognition of frequency patterns that are specific for each released scent. The study was done with bees chosen for a genetic preference for a particular flower. They duplicated in a frequency pattern of scent of particular flower.. Bees were trained to be attracted to a particular flower based on its scent. They then exposed via sound the flower scent frequencies the bees were trained to prefer. They were attracted to the sound of the scent!

we need a upgraded user interface. Just like over time your computer requires a Windows update. i believe the interface is whats blocking true reality.

This was so interesting to watch her response to the interviewer ( refusal to look at him and address her responses towards him), and his incresing discomfort ( nerviousness, twitching) as the interview progressed. It appears that she cannot stand him. Weird

As long as you are thinking of reality from a brain perspective you will never know reality. Beyond brain are mind, consciousness and pure awareness of the self. Of course, beyond brain you can only experience and not demonstrate!!! Indian seers went past the brain centuries ago!!!!

19:40 This may be another useful way to understand and empathize with those labeled as mentally (FILL IN THE BLANK). Perhaps they are or have become so conscious of 'the truth of things' or 'the way things be', that some of 'them' reach a point in their life where dealing with this dimension of awareness on a day to day basic becomes overwhelming, causing their 'egg' to crack. So what's our solution, a means of helping 'them' achieve a better standard of living or a more blissful conscious autonomy. Understand, empathize with and take on positive and progressive action plans together in order to help them guide their attention way the 'sight beyond sight'. It's a divergent reality out there, kinda like actively experiencing the dream plane on the waking plane simultaneously and it's a daily challenge. Paz y Amor.

Towards the end (1:20) Don goes on to say (something deeper... something deeper). It would seem that much of what is shared here is what the practice of Vedanta and other ancient practices have been pointing at for hundreds if not thousands of years... Our true nature is That which can observe the perception, perceiving and perceiver. In doing so we move beyond the body, mind and it's intellect to find our self in the paradoxical state beyond all states. A space beyond space, encompassing ‘all that is’ and isn’t. It cannot be measured or studied for it is the ‘space of allowing’ that allows all experience to unfold. The 'something deeper' is That… and the science as it seems is so very close but can't come to completion for it is still confined to the dynamic of the 'perception, perceiving and perceiver.' To use Don’s computer analogy with the desktop interface and the icons (a wonderful analogy)… It seems we could investigate the analogy/computer for lifetime after lifetime and still come up short. All the while having no awareness for the one sitting at the computer… Thank you for the wonderful discussion! Three very talented people exploring consciousness… a beautiful exploration!

It is entertaining to watch people discuss "reality" without realizing we are continually creating it based on our beliefs and intentions. Of course, only a minority of us have figured this out. But to be fair, it is in no way obvious. You two really need to get over yourselves. The brain is no more responsible for consciousness than the chairs you are sitting in. You'll understand when you return to your real existence on the other side after the death of your temporary avatars.

The Nature Of Personal Reality : a Seth book by Jane Roberts... THE. PHYSICAL UNIVERSE AS IDEA CONSTRUCTION. a second book by Jane Roberts...The Individual and Nature of Mass Consciousness

My senses tell me that the Earth is stationary, the constellations don't change, and the Sun and Moon are the same size and not as far away as we've been force fed.