I have to extend a major thank you to my fellow nerds who watch my videos! There are a few things I would like to note regarding this video: - My math is off in the G-Force/Radius calculations. I forgot to account for the normal force 😬 The radiuses to achieve the G-Forces I discussed are still massive tho! - I say exponential growth but the correct term is quadratic growth! Thank you for the feedback everyone. This will all help lead to better videos in the future
Nice. Normal force is the force that the coaster pushes on you which is G force. On the ground you feel one G, Because Fn=Fg. If you are falling or getting floater there is no Normal, IE Zero gs. If you are doing a crazy inversion you have to accelerate towards the middle of the circle which is one of the reasons why you feel the largest force at the bottom. Fn has to be way bigger than Fg to accelerate upwards. 🤙
Putting aside the crazy top speed and the shit your pants height, let’s talk about that length. Not only is it gonna beat the previous world record by a significant amount, it also competes with some of the longest mountain coasters in the world, that’s insane. It doesn’t matter if it’s 13,000ft or 14,000ft, it’s an insane length that would’ve been unimaginable even a year ago.
I got inside sources that they’re actually building clones of this coaster, and here’s where they’re going: Antarctica North Korea Venus Genovia Area 51
If I had a penny for every arab megalomaniac project that ends up abandoned because not only is it in the middle of the freaking desert and nobody but the superich wants to go the, but the project itself is a gigantic mess that was born because some moronic arab prince just kept saying "bigger" in the conference room to the point of an engineering feat being obscenely impractical I'd be as rich as an arab prince myself.
@@24Jetswhy are you commenting everywhere about it being a kiddie coaster? You must be one of those entitled, weird coaster enthusiasts Ryan talks about. I don’t see how this wouldn’t be intense. It’s massive and fast.
@@zachsteiner Okay, you might want to get yourself checked if you can’t figure out that I’m joking. It’s incredibly obvious lol. I do think the coaster will be have a decent amount of intensity, and I’m excited to see it when it opens. I’m not going to argue with you anymore though.
I can't imagine these graphics depict the actual final design. If so, the greatest design flaw would be the lack of an access/egress walkway. Surely that would have be be incorporated, and good luck doing that on those steep drops.
As an official number been released yet as far as total construction cost? Maintaining the ride is basically the equivalent of maintain 3 coasters in 1 given this ride is 13K feet long. Thanks.
Going to suck not getting any airtime on a 600' camel back hahah. Could you imagine the floater if B&M designed it? You'd have literally 5-8 seconds of constant floater. To bad it's in backwards ass Saudi Arabia. I'd never visit such a country. Even for a roller coaster.
Some basic calculations based on the train's velocity and the camelback's height, you'd crest the hill at over 60mph. You're definitely getting airtime on that.
@@twistedgwazi5727I'll believe it when I see it. Ha. Doesn't really matter. Not like I'm traveling to a backwards ass country like that to ride a coaster hahaha.
This looks like something i would make in planet coaster 😮 how can it be real? That was an old trick in coaster games to build up the terrain to get around support height limitations.
I always thought the enthusiast hype over TTD rollbacks was stupid, because a rollback on TTD is essentially a normal ride on Superman Escape from Krypton. By the sound of it, Falcon's Flight rollbacks would be way cooler and give a unique ride experience.
The hype is due to it being incredibly rare. and experiencing the ride two times for the price of one. Superman was designed too, where TTD wasn't designed to every single time, as we obviously know, so the hype comes from first two sentences.
I think people are underestimating the size of the rollercoaster. Those airtime hills some enthousiasts said to be forceless could be 30 to even 40 meters high. This rollercoaster will be an absolute mammoth. Those support beams will be the width of a train, maybe even thicker.
I think those supports would be akin to nearly the size of a medium shaped nuclear power plant oval circle structures you see at power plants and such, but that's just me.
Nope. If the hill is designed to produce zero-g then the coaster's force on them will be zero if the ride is operating as designed. The worst-case is the coaster STOPPED on the hill, where the force will be simply the weight of the coaster & riders if it stops top center. The worst load will be the weight of the structure itself, so it will need to be thick at the bottom (where there also positive g-loads). The presented appearance of the structure shows this: massive at the bottom, widely-spaced supports at the top.
LMAO the Saudi royals are muslim in pretty much name only. The moment the Quran tells them to do something that cuts into their personal interests, whether it's not hiring foreigners to perform sex acts that would disgust even the most hardcore porn addicts, or throwing away half the potential customers for their big expensive projects as your little theory suggests, it goes in the trash.
I live in Utah where we have those big, red mesas. My immediate impression is that the desert landscape is extremely unstable. Mesas shed rocks and house size boulders all the time. How are they going to prevent erosion from shifting or destroying the coaster?
I didn't know Velocicoaster had the features you highlighted here, like the swing launch to rescue itself and the option to completely stop the train on the first brake run at the end of the ride or continue rolling if unoccupied. This just made Velocicoaster fascinating
I got to ride Velocicoaster for the first time a week and a half ago, and I got to ride it three times. On my second ride, I got the rare opportunity to experience the backwards launch to forward launch to get over the top hat after our train was stalled at that second launch section. 😀
Actually, in most countries, manufacturers are obliged to follow standards like the ASTM, since these are adopted in local legislation. The precise standard is dependent on the country: ASTM F2291 in the US, EN13814 in Europe or GB8408 in China for example. Although I'm not sure which standard is used in Saudi-Arabia, most standards are very similar. Therefore, the assumption that Intamin follows ASTM's G-force limitations, is very reasonable.
I'm still hypothesizing that sand is going to play a bigger part in being an x-factor than is anticipated. The obvious is with the reliability of all of the LSMs and electronics, but there are couple of others. One is with the windshields. They will need to be replaced/repolished regularly as the windy climate and high speeds will end up sandblasting them and decreasing visibility leading to guest complaints (I also think that they will still ultimately have to implement goggles for riders). The other is a friction thing. A thin coating of sand on the tracks will reduce the available friction making the wheels less efficient in pushing the train forward and requiring more energy to maintain speed and momentum to carry the trains around the track thus increasing the potential of valleying and decreasing the overall top speed achieved. Magic Eightball says there might be a lot of Space Mountain-esque cascading in this ride's future depending on how the block zones are established.
@@manifestgtr the closest the middle east has to this is formula rossa. No major issue has sprung up with the massive coaster related to sand as of yet
@@manifestgtr I don't know specifically, but given the size and scope of this one, things aren't aren't as affecting on smaller coasters will hit this one differently. Part of my statement comes from a story a friend who used to work as a mechanic for Lufthansa had about them being commissioned to do maintenance on two planes from Egypt Air. He was surprised the planes were actually still able to fly because of the sand they collected. And for me, working in a shop in a city surrounded by desert lands, the floors have to be swept regularly because they become like sheets of ice with the sand/dust every day. Windshield observation comes from my own stint building airplane canopies/windows in an aerospace facility. And depending on what the actual material is, if they get washed with the wrong cleanser they'll craze and fog up permanently. No amount of re-polishing will take care of it.
@@psychopompinc.646 That was a *huge* issue for airbus’ a350 program. It might’ve been Emirates who passed on an order worth BILLIONS because there was an issue with the airplanes’ engines and the climate. Hot and dusty with these particular engines was gonna require some extra amount of maintenance that the airline just wasn’t willing to spend. It was a huge bump in the road for an otherwise super capable airliner.
In the one by ML Designs, the train absolutely hauls over the grand camelback, so even if the rest of the ride is pretty forceless, getting airtime at over 600ft would be insane.
Valleying is exactly the issue I thought of. Big wind gust or something and launch doesn't compensate then all of a sudden theyll need to bust a crane out.
Im glad you mentioned the exponential radius situation with falcons flight. This seems to be the reason for i305 being so intense, as it takes a train going 90mph a long time to clear a 4g turn compared to a train going 50mph like on the megalites.
Ryan, why don’t you apply and become part of Intamin’s North America group? I’m sure you could wind up being a valuable asset in one or more of their divisions; I’m a major fan of what they’ve accomplished and wish I could be employed there
The block timing analysis/speculation at the end of the video, with the triple-cut example showing, is genuinely incredible. Well done. I had a lot of those same situations when building the ride and letting it run; where in basically any operational hiccup, it causes a crazy traffic jam of stacking. I think the aggressive setup you described checks out in terms of getting the best throughput, but seems to be a bit of a timing gamble between the abort point of launch 3, and the next train on the FBR. Either way, great vid & analysis as always!
Fantastic technical analysis as always, Ryan! One minor correction: By default, a LSM stator will not act as a brake if not energized. In fact it will not do anything. A magnet passing by a coil will generate a current in the coil, sure - but if the leads (wires) are left open then nothing will happen. The leads of the LSM need to be either shorted, or more typically, shunted through what's known as a brake resistor, to dissipate the current generated and only then will they act as a brake. You can think of this in your Tesla as what can happen when coasting - the motors are still spinning when they are not energized, but you are not decelerating or feeling any braking forces unless that current is being shunted somewhere (i.e. regeneration back to the battery pack). On rides, typically from a safety standpoint the LSM stators are set up in a fail-safe configuration to default to shunting through a braking resistor. I only mention this because you specifically kept saying that LSM's when de-energized are automatically brakes, but that is not entirely true unless set up with braking resistors and contactors/controls to behave that way.
We actually use this trick in the racing quadcopter ("drone") community to diagnose failed motors. If a suspect motor seems to decelerate quickly after you spin it with your fingers, there is likely a short. If a motor with its leads shorted together does not decelerate faster, there is an open or another failure. If the motor is attached to an ESC, the ESC may also be causing the short if it has failed, so the motor must be de-soldered and tested on its own.
@@jackwoodhead Awesome, yeah! The same effect is used with LEGO 9V gear motors; the controller can either brake or float the output. Brake shorts the leads and the motor will have a braking effect. Float opens the circuit and the motor will spin without resistance.
Yeah, knowing that the biggest most exciting coaster in the world is going to be in a place where I could actually get executed for being gay makes it hard for me to justify getting more emotionally invested in the hobby
Fr. Nobody wants to go there. If it's any consolation, I doubt the ride or the park will ever open. These types of megalomaniac projects in the middle of the desert fail after the slightest serious consideration. Like Dubai's abandoned islands or Jeddah Tower.
Having ridden Formula Rossa, that ride is very intense and definitely gives airtime on those drawn out hills. I have no doubts this ride will give airtime.
The most hilarious coaster video I’ve ever seen was Kimi Raikkonen going on that ride with Vettel and staying completely calm and unfazed the entire ride like it was just another Tuesday (which for those guys it kinda is lol)
Six flags should really start by taking care of the parks that they already have. In Montreal, La Ronde has really had a serious downgrade in the quality of the attractions that it offers this last decade. It seriously needs investment. Its a real shame that they took a park with so much history and just allowed it to rot.
Great Adventure and New England are both shells of their former selves. Service, ride maintenance, and quality are all garbage and prices have shot up. I know Cedar Fair just bought out Six flags, but I really hope they turn those parks around. I'd rather save up to go to a big destination park than go to either of those parks in their current state.
I really love these more engineering-focused videos because we get to hear your insight into the design as both a roller-coaster nerd _and_ an engineer. 👍 As a fellow engin-nerd I'll be interested to understand the design decisions, construction & maintenance challenges given the extreme environmental conditions they will have to deal with... you have crazy temperature variations, extremely dry subsoil, those good old sandblasting duststorms, etc. I presume they are going to have to come up with some new tech for cooling & lubricating systems, and given Intamin will have few of the usual budgetary & other constraints it's going to be really interesting to see what solutions they come up with
Oh yeah just imagine the sandblasting you'll get at 150mph anytime there's a slight breeze through the park.... sand and fast speeds and Rollercoaster just don't go well together. This is such a wasted place to put this coaster....
I love your nerdy content. It's right up my alley, as a coaster enthusiast math nerd. I think a lot of the criticisms of this project comes from a place of knowing how difficult it will be to ride this. It's a tough thought that we could spend tons of money, navigate a very different culture, only to find the coaster closed during our visit for maintenance issues. We don't want it to be very good, in order to make it alright that we won't be riding it. Even though I've had those thoughts, I do think it will be an incredible ride.
Even with the additional block zone you're theorising, that's still a *really* small capacity especially considering the crowds they're probably expecting for F1 races etc. With the heat I also can't imagine queues would be particularly pleasant, and I sure as heck wouldn't want to be stuck at the top of the cliff in the baking sun. Ultimately though it doesn't matter, and I'm so sad this coaster is being built in Saudi. If it was (almost) anywhere else in the world I'd be booking a trip specifically to ride it without hesitation, but I cannot and will not go to Saudi. Honestly I'm incredibly disappointed in both Six Flags and Intamin working with them, but I guess nobody cares when you add a 0 onto the cheque.
i wonder how the high speed rollback would feel with the glass curved in such a way to "cup" the wind when the train goes backwards, that seems like it would slow down quite a lot
My main concern with this ride is with the maintenance people that have to check this ride for safety every day. Walking ~6 miles roundtrip and scaling a cliff surface every morning, to check to make sure that the track and supports are in good shape? The maintenance team for this ride would be excessive and split into several areas. Coasters of a "regular" size already have a lengthy daily maintenance routine, and with this project, that time easily doubles due to the length and scale of this ride. Plus the additional drive up the cliff to check the track and supports up there (although, that section of track does experience less stress, so maybe that's not as much of a concern). Not to mention, the mechanics need climbing gear in their toolbox to check the support integrity on the cliff face and make sure the water-cooling system for the LSMs (which is new tech that is crucial to proper operations, so definitely should be looked at regularly) is up to shape. It's not like they can avoid this maintenance either, with the conditions and forces this ride is enduring. If they weren't checking the integrity of a 150+ MPH, 600+ ft tall, 13,000+ ft long ride on a daily basis, and then invited the public? Yikes. I'm going to hope that, if this ride does reach the operations stage, FF is only open on special occasions due to the intense maintenance routine, but that would mean that SFQ just burned hundreds of millions of dollars for very little return. Good payday for Intamin at least, lol. Maybe their tourism board is willing to spend huge amounts of money to pay a team that big daily... or worse, maybe they're not, but they still run the ride anyway. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for innovation and love seeing Intamin take on challenges and knock them out of the park, but I hope this project fails in the long run. It's more excessive than innovative, and still has many unknowns regarding SF Qiddiya's operations that have not been addressed (i mean, they haven't even built the rest of the park yet!). I'm not holding my breath on this project.
Drones like they are now going to do at carowinds because everyone freaked out when that support broke on fury would be my gess. They over build these things im sure fury could of operated with that broken support for awhile if social media and the news didnt over react. just a speculation.
@@Coolsomeone234 ok fine, maybe that's a bit strong, but there's no way this project turns out to be a success in any practical sense for SFQ's longevity, especially for the price tag of this project.
@@ken97531 Drones are a possibility, but it'll still take a long time to check track integrity since you have to inspect 13,000+ ft of track. Plus, drones are limited to a maximum height of 400 feet according to various international laws, so unless SFQ gets a special exemption, maintenance crews will still have to climb up the cliff face and the 600 ft hill for inspections. Say they do get the drone height limit exemption, though. The park would have to get multiple drone operators to have any sore of reasonable timeframe, since you'll have to account for the drone's battery life, both in flying and transmitting high quality footage to the operator to check for cracks or defects. I don't know too much about how Carrowinds pulls off their drone inspections, but if they can pull it off, then it only becomes an issue of magnitude for FF, and a very serious order of magnitude at that. EDIT: Saudi Arabia has very heavy regulation on drone use, and they limit drone height to 150 meters, which is higher than the standard limit, but still not high enough.
I hope with this coaster Intamin finally figured out how to make a smooth riding coasters (at least comparable to their competition). It's wild to me even coasters built by them in the last few years have a rattle/vibration issue.
It sucks because I will probably never get to ride this, but I hope it's successful so that it could reignite the coaster wars in the US and lead to my annual Cedar Point trip getting even better!
I honestly don´t think that hourly capacity will be much of an issue even if it ends up being closer to 630 Riders / Hour. I somewhat doubt that this Park will draw in the amount of people and crowds they are hoping for and I expect that a good amount of people that do end up visiting the Park will be scared away from ever riding Falcon´s Flight when they see the size of it´s Camel Back and the Speed it´s going to blast through the the ending section.
I find it strange that you speak a lot about the value of G force, yet you do not list the G forces exerted by coasters and the direction of those forces ... Why not strap a 6dof G meter to your chest and publish the G forces ...I would love to know this information
Hugely underrated comment. I stopped at the calculation of the radius of turns to maintain a G force in only one direction. Anything after that would be garbage calculations.
Ryan, great video as always. Did you mean perplexing around the 3rd launch introduction around 8:40? I'm a recovering architect, current construction estimator, and lifetime coaster idiot. It's interesting to talk about the funding behind amusement rides; especially as we haven't seen any mixed use amusement developments for the 21st century. Day dreams of productive agriculture amusement rides of the future.
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but when calculating the track radius for vertical Gs - shouldn't this be with +1G as the baseline as that's what riders would experience with no force applied by the coaster? Solving that equation for 1G would be for 1 additional G (so 2G for positive, 0G for negative)
This is correct when the riders are at the crest of the hill with 0 banking where relative to the rider gravity would be acting 90° down, directly opposite to the centripetal force. However, anywhere else on the hill, gravity's force decreases as gravity's direction veers away from the vertical relative to the rider.
I think there has to be a line drawn somewhere. There comes a point where some of these coasters are basically skydiving. They don’t all have to be record-breakers.
Really nice video and interesting thoughts and insights! One small thing about your elaboration on G forces, speed and radius: If I see it correctly, this is exactly not exponential growth, but quadratical growth (which for sufficiently large inputs is proven to always be less than exponential). It would be exponential if v itself was in the exponent, but not if there is an exponent to v. Thought I'd just mention it after everyone was bombarded with "exponential growth" during Covid a million times 😄
That's a no. I do not trust visiting this country. I really want to ride this coaster, but I don't want to put myself in danger, nor can I afford to go anyway
Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll Heartline roll
Thank you so much for this video, I love how you analyze things and also love when you say “we shouldn’t assume how the coaster will ride until people can ride it.” Love your channel
I really wish this coaster would just go away. I'm expecting it to have a huge number of issues, essentially a huge example of why trying to be the best at everything leads to failing everywhere else. The entire ride looks like it was designed with the record-breaking elements first and then everything else was just slapped together to try and connect pieces. It'll just be another Formula Rossa, a ride where the entire selling point was "WORLD RECORD BREAKING LAUNCH!!!", but the rest of the ride is a boring mess.
