u/CuteSexyRwby is who made the thumbnail Edit: here's the link www.reddit.com/r/reddeadredemption/comments/mtmzqm/when_im_gone_theyll_just_find_another_monster/? Edit 2: this is NOT clickbait. I thought the thumbnail looked cool and was relevant to what I was doing. Anyone with a brain can read the title and realize it's not a recreation. Stop harrassing me about it
I just realized that when Dutch says “we gotta stop meeting like this”, it’s a callback to John/Dutch/Micah’s stand-off on a similar mountain in rdr2. They really found a way to tie every little detail together..
@@beatsgamer9918 not "every" detail, there's some discrepancies Main one is that the Marshall in Armadillo says he's been Sheriff for 25 years....yet there's no sheriff in 1907
Also when he says “we can’t fight gravity”, in RDR2 said something similar before jump off the cliff into the river when the army were chasing him with Arhur
John was the first person to start questioning dutch and his ideas, even before Arthur and Hosea ever did. He knew where everyone's lives were headed long before they ever did
@@dylh2967 no john is Stupid He did not take care of his son from the beginning John was an idiot Thanks to hosea and Arthur They were the ones who took care of his , little Jack
Fun fact: there's a book in RDR2 in Dutch's tent, I believe when you first arrive at Horseshoe Overlook, about a preacher and his dying brother that quotes "you can't fight your nature."
I hate when people think that this cliffside speech is Dutch remembering Arthur. To dutch, everything, arthur, the gang falling apart and everything that came with it was never his fault in his eyes, when its blatantly obvious it is his fault. thats what dutch means by "we cant fight nature, change or gravity" Dutch knows he needs to change, like John did to survive. But doing so would mean admitting that he was wrong, and that those deaths are his fault but "I cant give up neither, I cant fight my own nature." because its not in his nature to change; but in order to escape this time, to live, he has to change. "thats the paradox john, You see?" and because dutch cant fight change, or his own nature, he lets gravity end him, Something else that you cant fight.
I never took it to mean that. I took it to mean Dutch reflecting on his own life and choices. Hes "remembering Arthur", but more so because he remembers everything. I think it's because Roger Clark said that idea once
Sorry but you’re so off base. It is HEAVILY implied at the end of r2 that Dutch DOES regret how everything turned out with Arthur and the gang, specifically when John asks what he’s doing in the mountains with Micah and he replies “same as you I guess.” He wanted to avenge Arthur. And in reguards to John, the sad parallel is that he also can not change, because the sins of his past keep pulling him back to gunslinging, that’s the point Dutch is trying to make, that’s why he says OUR time is past, not HIS time. John is not a reformed man, you can even see that in the epilogue of R2. Although I do agree that Dutch knows he can’t conform to modern society, even if it means death. But you also have to remember that any hope he had to live a normal life was long gone when he killed all those influential people. Like John, his past keep him from being able to change.
This game gets deeper and sadder when you finish playing RDR2, I finished RDR1 3 times in mid-2014/2015, but now after playing rdr2 you feel it gets more exciting and heavy
It really pains me that a lot fans of RDR2 were never interested in RDR2 and aren’t even interested in playing it. I remember buying RDR1 on launch in 2010 when I was 11. Unreal how much time has passed
@@gleam6370 to be fair, unless you're on Xbox it isn't easy to play the first. You need a PS3 or Xbox 360 to play. PS4 and PC players are out of luck this way. Xbox users have it through backwards compatibility though. A game can be great but not worth the hastle of finding the hardware needed and a copy of the game
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions I’ve played Red Dead Redemption 1 on PSNow on the PS4. It isn’t as perfect as it would be on the XBOX360 (I’ve seen footage and hell, that game looks beautiful on that console), but if you have a descent internet connection it works rather well. I’ve had a subscription of a month, and that was more than enough time to play both Red Dead 1 and Undead Nightmare. So I think PSNow would be a pretty good alternative instead of buying a PS3/Xbox360
I know the endings of both, and have seen a lot of prominent story moments. Currently playing RDR2 for the first time, and then doing the first. Can't wait.
I like the parallels between John and Dutch's confrontation in RDR2's epilogue with their final scene together in RDR. In RDR2's epilogue, Dutch has John at gunpoint on a snowy mountain and could've shot him, but decided to holster his gun despite everything. Now John has Dutch at gunpoint here and could've shot him as well, but decided to holster his gun despite everything.
Dutch's goal was getting Micah, not John. If you notice he comes out with two revolvers, but then he holds one and the other hand is at his side. He was counting on Micah not noticing. He even says he's there for the same reason John is
@@pastor3271 if you notice, he comes out with two guns, but is only pointing one initially, holding his hand behind his back. That one comes up and he shoots Micah. It's clear to me also by his "same reason as you, I suppose" his goal was killing Micah and was going that either for saftey or for keeping the illusion up
When i was 6 or 7 i saw my neighbour playing a game in the wild west shooting people and riding a horse, this game was stuck in my mind but i never knew what game it was. Last year i played Red Dead Redemption 2 and loved the game so much that just some days later i bought the first Red Dead Redemption just to see how things would go for John, and when i played i realized that it was the game i always had in my mind, this made playing the game more special than it could ever been and playing it after playing RDR2 made it much more emocional.
Sort of unrelated but the same thing happened to me with the movie tombstone. I was around 4-5 scrolling through channels and saw two cowboys one twirling a pistol and another twirling a cup. Some ten years later i watched tombstone and finally see Johnny Ringo and Doc Holliday doing the same thing.
"you can't erase the past John; killing me, it won't make it go away" is the quote I always thought was the warning That's far more applicable to the truth of why everything happens; you did their dirty work but you're still a criminal.
@@couchpotatoeshorts1570 Hey man you can't expect me to be smart. What me get defensive over something when it turns out I'm an idiot who made a typo? That's insane!!! (heavy sarcasm there, whoops on my ability to read)
He also uses the same thing John says to him on the mountain in RDR2 "Dutch! Killing me won't change nothing!" "You can't erase the past John, killing me, it won't make it go away!"
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions I think it summarizes the theme of the red dead series as a whole. People can change, or rather, become more of what they truly are. Whether that be redemption, or the furthering of one's savage nature. But regardless of whatever it is, one thing will always remain constant, and that's what you've done. Can't change the past
Theres alot of words that is repeated on rdr2 like "its either us or him" dutch said that to john and then on rdr john said that to javier but he changed it a lil bit
*RDR1 Remake that fans have been asking for even before RDR2 release* Rockstar: I sleep *A re-remaster of GTA 5 for PS5 that absolutely no one asked for* Rockstar: ReAl ShIt!
I think Dutch suffered the worse out of the whole gang knowing he failed them all and didn’t listen to anyone else but himself and let those closest people to him go astray or die and he had to live with that for so long he has forgotten who he once was.
@Rasha That's why pride is so dangerous. Dutch wasn't evil. He just couldn't accept that he was responsible for the downfall of the gang. He knows it, everyone else knows it, but dutch can't bring himself to admit it.
Everyone conviently forgets that Dutch was permanently messed up and changed after he hit his head in the trolley during the Saint Denis escape. The man very well could have come to his senses and seen the light if it weren't for that. He's a victim, just as much as any of the other gang members.
@@MemeinAndDreamin Trolley theory is dumb. Dutch was the same prideful, egotistical monster he has always been. Red Dead 2 is about how his facade of a well put together man slowly falls away.
@@comradeskipper5232 Arthur dies on top of a mountain looking at the sun rising peacefully succumbing to his illness to later be buried with love by the people he loved, and have his grave be maintained and full of flowers years and years after he died, and visited by people that loved him Micah dies shot to death by people that hate him, on top of a snowy mountain that makes it hard for his body to decompose, so his body just stays there, never buried, never cared for, facing the ground and disfigured, decomposing slowly and alone for the rest of time, already forgotten by the people who hate him, forever abandoned
The RDR saga is not a fairy tale, it tells us the harsh reality that even if you have the best intentions in the world, having that life in the end only leads to death, that the only thing they could do is seek their redemption, die as someone honest, not die like a murderer, the scene of Dutch saying "I have a plan" is the most emotional of the moment, remember when Arthur and Dutch fell from the ravine with that phrase was beautiful, these games are simple works of art, no Current game can be compared to the wonderful story that rockstar created, it may be the most criticized company but its stories are magnificent
I think the line that best encompasses the meaning behind them is "you can't erase the past John; killing me, it won't make it go away". Redemption isn't justice, and that line says it best. You can redeem yourself but you still did bad things
I remember being happy dutch died when i first played in 2010 but when i just finished replaying it, im just sad. Same thing with killing Bill after see how he is in 2. Its like putting down an old dog.
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions True, this game is amazing for being over a decade old and RDR2 definitely elevates this game's story even further. However, if this came out as a direct sequel to RDR2 (RDR2 being the first installment of the series in this case), I can't imagine the fan reception being good. If RDR ever got a remake, what would you want them to change/add?
@@fetusdeletus788 expanded epilogue for Jack would be one, or just having him play more of a role in the main game. In RDR2 continuing as John made sense just in the confines of that game alone. I wouldn't want the ending to feel so out of nowhere either as I think that kills the pacing in a way. The story feels done after killing Dutch. More Dialogue for continuing a side mission as Jack. There's some (I have a video on it) but most don't have any difference. Some like Jenny's Faith u understand, ones like Eva In Peril I don't (both don't have any difference in dialogue yet Eva in Peril I could see continuing as Jack and making sense) Mentions of the other gang, however not a lot. I think for the most part it's ok, but some times I would just slip in a mention of Arthur
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions I hate to say it but John's death did feel kinda... out of left field? Like you said, after your final confrontation with Dutch and riding back to your ranch with the Compass song playing in the background. The game felt complete and I half expected the credits to roll when John reunited with his family once again. After that, you just do chores and spend quality time with your family before John's death. On the subject of Jack, I saw a RU-vid poll recently on the best RDR protagonist which had thousands of votes. If I remember correctly, Jack had the lowest amount of votes (even below Harlow). Rockstar barely put any effort on Jack's character in the epilogue. He has one special mission and that's it. The rest of the side missions is him reciting John's dialogue word for word. At least in RDR2, when you do a side mission as John instead of Arthur, he has unique dialogue and interacts with the character differently. How about the gang members you chase (Bill, Javier and Dutch)? You wouldn't give them more spotlight or stuff to do? For the entire plot being about hunting them down, they seem underdeveloped and barely have any screentime.
@@fetusdeletus788 actually what's interesting is Jack has more script differences than John. John's only script differences are if he continues a side mission. Jack has actual different dialogue for them. Some it's minor (you signed an oath vs you took an oath) though. John's death feeling random is why I would change the pacing. I agree with how it ends 100%, but if I did it, the Ranch chapter would be the epilogue, and Jacks time be the "endless summer" mode. Feels more appropriate that way IMO I feel the gang members have the right amount of presence actually
When they started filming this scene Benjamin Davis (Dutch) was on a mat raised about a foot off the ground. He started to slip and basically unintentionally fell when saying 'out time has passed' I remember him saying that story, your comment reminded me of it
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions I remember he said it at a comic con “our time has passed” while falling backwards as fast as he can. I still laugh every time I imagine it in my head
Dutch was right when they said they'll just finde another monster for shadowing John's death but in the end they just creat a bigger badder monster one that craves vengeance for his fallen family.
“I got a plan, John” fuck that stung. I know people hated Dutch come the end of RDR2 and rightfully so, but I personally always loved him in a way. Like a mentor or father to start, and then come the end it was more bittersweet, like letting go of someone. He genuinely did everything possible for the gang, he fought and fought and fought no matter how crazy it made him seem or what it cost him. And in a way, his rantings and ravings about the world weren’t ever incorrect. He was warped, yes, but never entirely wrong. I really wanted so badly to trust in his plans, but everything closed in no matter what Dutch did
"With me gone, they'll just find another monster." One of Dutch's problems from RDR2 is that he didn't realize that if Cornwall wasn't backing the Pinkertons, it would just be some other rich white old guy. But here at the end, he's finally learned all the lessons that Arthur learned before he passed.
This is a new level of heartbreak to some degree after playing the second game because it just makes you feel bad for both of them that it got to that point
I love how they incorporated so many quotes from this game in Red Dead 2 because instead of a Cowboy hunting down people he apparently used to be in a gang with, it turns into a reminder of the past, with it turning into Dutch recalling the mountain killing of Micah and John's further avenging of Arthur
He wanted to keep his lawless west alive. It drove him to no longer having any morals and recruiting Native Americans to continue a fight that they knew they already lost. On the cliff is when it hits him; it was all for nothing. You can't fight change
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions absolutely. I respected Dutch, especially in early chapters but as soon as he said that Arthur and John were the rats, I knew he was out of his mind.
“I got a plan John..” “This is a good one..” Dutch jumps off the cliff to his death Years earlier in 1899: “I got a plan Arthur..” “This is a good one..” Arthur and Dutch jump off the cliff into the Dakota River
Prettt sure he even mentioned how you can’t fight gravity in his little speech to the soldiers before jumping off the cliff too. Really super well tied together.
I don't think it's that. That's how Clark saw it. The way I saw it was more broad: he remembers everyone. He remembers how his fighting and his plans have killed off everyone he's known and pushed him insane. His whole life all he's done is fight. He can't stop, his paradise of the wild west is what he wants. It doenst matter, his time has passed, he has no more purpose or desire. He can't fight John, and for once in his life he gives up He realized the truth, and the truth set him free. To make it just about Arthur undermines all of that
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions this seems to the strike it better my friend I've heard Roger himself talking about that so ,I thought that it's for real but anyway Thanks for sharing my outlaw brother
@@Dutch_van_der_Linde_1899 oh I heard him talk about it too. But he didn't write it, so he's interpreting it just like we would. Plus the more minor thing is that this speech wasn't written when Arthur exsisted, so I'm basing what he's saying based on that. Though I will admit after the second game what he's saying here becomes a lot clearer and I feel way more what he says. Also I have some round trip tickets to Guarma, you want them?
Dutch was holding on to something that was long gone. Arthur, John, Hosea, everyone was trying to tell Dutch for years. But he didn’t listen. Wasn’t till that moment on the cliff that he realized he was chasing an empty dream and that he was fighting nature. And you can’t fight nature, so he decides to just let it take him. And he acknowledged the fact that there time had passed for good.
I think a lot of people fail to see that this is the moment Dutch was forced to confront the truth. He was in denial and fought against it for so long that the only time he came out of his delusion was when he was literally backed up against a cliff. When he finally saw what everyone he used and stepped all over, like Hosea and Arthur, were right all along about the world changing and their way of life ending he ultimately couldn't face it in the end. Rather than face the truth and be taken by the changing modern world he went out as an outlaw in his own version of his own world. Dutch truly was a coward all the way up until his end.
If they ever make a Red Dead 3, I would like it to be playing as Dutch between the events of Red Dead 2 and Red Dead 1. The epilogue of RDR2, he just walks off with no explanation. I wanna see the Blackwater massacre, dammit!
Imo if you want to see the Blackwater Massacre, it would make more sense to play as Mac Callander. All the quotes in the game about him state that he was kind of a low honor outlaw, but he still had some charm to him; we could play as Mac and experience the true Wild West by being a true bad outlaw, and the ending would be him getting captured, interrogated and shot by Agent Milton following the Blackwater Massacre, and we can see what finally happened. The low honor ending could be the more suitable for him, and his act of redemption could be him holding off the Pinkertons and Bounty Hunters in Blackwater whilst the gang escapes. The epilogue would have you play as Arthur; the first part of the epilogue would be the gang in Colter, and the second part would be the gang moving to Horseshoe Overlook and would end within the two weeks between arriving at Horseshoe Overlook and the start of the first mission there. Could really complete the whole series by doing that imo plus we could see the gang in their prime.
Notice how Dutch escapes out of a cave like Arthur and John in RDR2, but he falls to the depths of it but Arthur and John rise to the top (but John descends it later for his family).
Its sad that that Dutch died , he wasn't really a bad person he just let the money get to him when it came to saving john from the train and he redeemed himself by shooting micha
It wasn't the money, it was John doubting him. Based on what I can tell it's not the money for Dutch, it's keeping his wild west world alive. There was no reason to let John die, even if it's about the Money Dutch just backed off and did nothing; he did it because he wanted yes men. This is why he left Arthur behind in the oil wells. He had the money, he left Arthur because Arthur doubted him
Seeing as Dutch is an amazing marksman and probably taught Arthur/John the deadeye trick, I think Dutch missed all those shots on purpose. He wanted John dead at one point, but now, it doesn't matter. The fabric of the gang's already broken, he'd gain nothing from it besides losing a son.
It made me sad to see Dutch lose his mind slowly in RDR2 and by rdr1 he is already gone. Nothing but a broken man. Dutch was a great character in both games sometimes I think that when him Arthur and Micah were on Guarma he started to lose his mind. And Micah manipulated and whispered poison in Dutch's ear and Hosea's death was the final nail in the coffin of the man Dutch van der linde used to be
Am I the only one that kind cried when Dutch died because just the way he accepts his fate and just tells john how he tried to change and fight life but couldn't do it and tried to save john in the process
Oh John, you should have listened. Dutch might have been insane in the end, but he wasn't wrong about the Pinkertons. There was no way they were going to let you walk away after all of that. Not when there was something for them to gain from it.
Well a remaster of this game is impossible. The engine they used (an in-between of GTA IV'S and V's, a RAGE 2.5 if you will) was incredibly unoptinized and had several issues. Getting it to work at all was an accomplishment. This is why it didn't receive a PC port BTW A remaster wouldn't exactly work since you'd have to update the game and it's in a bad state already. And a remaster kinda exsists already on current Xboxes A remake is more likely
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions Remake is not a bad idea, I would be happy to have one. I cant access PS3 or Xbox, I really wish I could, it be awesome to play as John as he's a great character.
@@melodicsatisfactionproductions it makes sense. Dutch read Evelyn Miller's books and in the side mission in tall trees he clearly states "you can't fight your own nature"
I mean Benjamin Davis (Dutch) was only a four above ground shouting this so it just ragdolls. What's funnier is one take he slipped when saying "our time has passed", which would have been hilarious
