I was trained with irons by my Father and the Army,but as I get older I've noticed red dots are easier to focus in on my targets. Half my pistols are iron sights the others are red dot
My father was career army so going out into the woods to go shooting with his government buddies was a family rite of passage lol. I don’t think I picked up a Red Dot until my teens so irons all the way
You should be efficient with both. Never put all your eggs in one basket. You want to be able to pick up any weapon and be effective. And always fight your way to a force multiplier when possible. Train with both and you won’t be left making excuses.
@@philbertshevitz3113never use blinkerfluid on reddots. Reddots need a constant dot while blinkers go on and of every few seconds. If you use blinkerfluid on your reddot, it might start turning on and of which is annoying
So Cal Deputy here: I’m keeping it simple with my Dawson fiber optic irons. Two Deputies had their Trijicon red dots fail on them during my last pistol training day. It’s just another thing to go wrong, plus, they cost just as much as the pistol. On top of that is the added cost of a whole new holster.
That's because most cops are woefully undertrained and can't upkeep something as simple as a red dot. Most cops I know only shoot once or twice a year. (And they can't shoot for shit). I was talking to a member of Dallas SWAT at an idpa competition and he echoed this sentiment. You definitely have to keep it dumbed down for the lowest common denominator.
May as well 3d print a printables nerf "red dot" that is just iron sights. They let you have that cool look but function like a red dot. Airsoft world has kids buying radioactive tritium from the old Texas super collider to put in their 3d printed iron sights. It's also pretty cool the new Homemade red dot sights people are making on fosscad like "the ugly" or whatever. Guy made his own 3d printed red dot with cheap electronics from an old vape battery AMOLED screen and led, and HAS Custom reticals. Like custom Bluetooth red dot. His used micro SD card tho. But u could fit bluetooth
Practice both! If your optic is low enough to utilize your iron sights, You’re in luck. Red dots are superior, but being effective with irons if your red dot malfunctions is always a good thing to master.
Which it will. Two deputies Trijicon red dots failed during pistol training. That was enough for me not to buy one. Plus, they cost as much as the pistol
@NadJebronered dots are superior, mark my words, pistols will come with a red dot and no irons. Even without irons and the dot goes down, you can still shoot accurately.
@@Thomk121 I never understood this argument, usually the grip is what's hard to conceal, the red dot usually sticks out in a direction that doesn't matter
Team iron sight! Red dots are fun and have a function, but if you can’t shoot accurately with the iron sights you are putting yourself at a disadvantage
Not if you can't see through the glass due to snow, rain, and mud. That's the issue I'm having, during last deer season as I was going through the woods my red dot and thus my pistol was unusable due to snow/water falling into it while going through brush ect. Atleast with the exposed holster I was wearing. Ended up using only a concealed holster now as it keeps the gun protected until needed. No more kydex holster on a gun belt, unless it's one with a hood. And I've since had to buy 2 new holsters to fix that, which was expensive AF...but worth it
@@mrdark9916 check out a safariland RDS holster for red dot protection. But also, wipe it off? Wouldn’t you have the same problem with irons anyways getting muddy?
@@mrdark9916 why are you deer hunting with a handgun????? Depending on what handgun it is, that is a terrible way to just injure an animal and not dispatch it on the first shot.
I like red dots for casual range day and longer shots, but irons for self defense and tactical situations, I run lots of shooting events for my job and I’ve seen lots of shooters good and bad look around for their red dot
Anybody who has ever moved through the woods in heavy rain, snow, muddy conditions with a pistol on their side with a red dot either knows how unreliable they can be, or is lying... I've had my optic and thus my pistol rendered entirely useless due to snow, rain and mud completely occluding the glass. Sure I can clean it when I see it's getting debris on it, but unless you want to have to constantly unholster and clean it repeatedly all day, it must be protected. Cowitness irons don't mean shit if u can't even see through the window. Ive since had to buy 2 new holsters which was expensive as hell, to fix the issue. Only a kydex holster WITH A HOOD, or a concealed holster that keeps the gun/optic protected until needed.... But the days of a Ragnarok holster on a gun belt is GONE for me, because I choose to use a red dot. Worth it to me, but something u have to consider. Last thing u want is to draw your backup gun IE your pistol, and realize u can't see through it. That's a bad way to die...
I am loving this joke that enclosing the emitter will somehow magically keep crud from getting on the viewing lens itself. 😂 you guys should be in standup comedy.
Thank God you remembered to wear fatigues on the closed range. It definitely builds confidence and trust from those who think you're just a grown man, LARPing, saying commonsensical things that most children could identify. Bless you.
Red Dots are a nice add on, but be proficient with irons first. Also, if you live in Alaska or other extreme climates, red dots are also a disadvantage. Red dots also compromise a little on conceal-ability. You also need to practice your draw to first shot even MORE with a red dot. If you're not a student of the game and just like to exercise your 2A rights, then iron sights would be more ideal, especially if you don't have the time or resources to live fire train at least once a month. A lot of these people you see online train regularly with their optic sights and what they do does not translate to your Real Life results.
You should be proficient with irons first. That should be secondary. People pick up on shooting and fundamentals faster with dots than they do with irons, and it actually makes learning irons easier if you started with a dot.
Every shooter ive ever met who consistently trains with a dot over irons has had a faster learning curve with the fundamentals, and given it does a better job of teaching proper target focused shooting, what you learn on a dot tends to translate to irons easier than what you learn on irons transferring to dot use. You said it yourself, when you get a dot you have to train more, but if youre carrying you should simply be training more anyway🤷🏼 in reality most people get this idea because old school irons shooters still shoot front sight focused and never learn to shoot target focused. Using a dot speeds up that learning curve for using both of your eyes properly. Personally, i spent two years and 3k rounds on irons before I picked up my first dot, after less than 6 months of training with it I was bounds better at tracking my recoil and diagnosing trigger issues off of watching the dot in dryfire alone. Having a dot doesnt just give you opportunity to shoot more accurately they also serve as a great learning tool for improving your shooting mechanics and self diagnosing trouble areas. Also as a side note to this rant ive taught dozens of people to shoot and most of them have had an easier time shooting a dot for the first time than irons, I usually bring one of each to teach them. Hope some of this is useful to you
@@Elitist8 Most people don't j have time (or money) to train that much. Dry fire can only take you so far. Try to consider that the average person's income and for life schedules before assuming such things please. This type of mentality is exactly what deters people from wanting to exercise their 2A rights.
I’ve personally watched irons walk loose on cheap handguns all the way up to 2500 dollar custom kimber 1911s. I’ve also seen the Springfield prodigy have sights walk loose.
@@mikebrase5161 I’ve seen at least a dozen front sights get yeeted into space at matches, and various brand adjustable rear sights shit the bed too. I have at least three officers a year (small dept) come to me because their rear sight has drifted in the dovetail. About the same amount who have the Glock front sight screw loosen up I see annually (and I GREEN loctite that shit when I install them). This is not uncommon. And it’s not just Glock. SIG x-ray front sights are fragile as hell, and like to snap off even using SIG’s own tool. The Trijicon sights in M&Ps made specifically for SW like to have the tritium inserts fall out during firing.
I like irons because a dirty piece of glass just pisses me off. I already have to deal with glasses, I don't want to be looking through another linty, dusty, dirty filter. Besides, a really quick way to shoot irons is a sort of rear sight focus. If your target is larger than the rear sight notch, and your front sight is visible in the notch, as long as your handgun is zeroed, you will hit.
Astigmatism issues give many shooters ( like myself ) a poor sunburst view, or even multiple reticles. I d put my money on tritium NS and a Inforce rail light
same, astigmatism creates a MAJOR sunburst effect but the principle remains, know yourself and your tools. I personally like lasers with irons because of astigmatism.
I see crazy stuff when I look (uncorrected) at a dot. That being said , I've found that light power readers clean that right up. Also if I use a large circle reticle (not a dot) it's basically a non issue.
Perhaps some day they can get holographic tech small enough for pistols. I’ve heard EOTechs are better for astigmatisms, but I don’t have either of them, so I don’t know.
Red dots all day. Easiest ways to mitigate all the cons mentioned, get an enclosed pistol sight so debris can't block the light, get a holosun so you don't have to take the optic off to replace the battery, and keep batteries on hand for when your battery dies. Done deal
"Hold up mister bad guy. My battery died. Let me just swap it out real quick..." Also, an enclosed sight doesn't prevent dirt or mud obstruction the window, or excessive light from drowning out the dot.
Oi Tactical, I’m still on iron but finally found the best way to quickly aim in and how my eyes should focus. I’ve never used a dot but my relative told me I’d never go back to iron if I did try out a dot. Thanks for the vid too
I don’t care what anyone says or how much you train, you will ALWAYS be able to acquire a target faster with iron sights. All of the drills you’ve done with your red dot aren’t going to matter when someone is 15 feet away barreling towards you with a knife. The red dot is only good once your arms are fully extended and you’re in the proper aiming position. You simply don’t know where exactly your handgun is aiming in those precious seconds where you’re raising your gun up, ESPECIALLY if your attacker is in very close proximity to you where things are as hectic as possible. Irons give you the context of where your gun is aiming through your peripheral AS you’re pulling it into aiming position, which gives you the ability to acquire your target significantly faster. You don’t have to “find” your reticle like you do with a red dot. If you’re going for accuracy and a super tight grouping at the range the red dot will win almost every time. If you think it’s going to pull through for you in a close range self defense situation you’re smoking crack.
bruh if someone is 15 ft away from u, it literally doesn’t matter what is on ur gun. u just point and shoot as fast as u can without focusing on any sights.
What I like to do is train for 10-20 reps reflex on a range, 15-30 reps iron sight, to practice getting sight alignment sight picture, then switch to practice 20-40 reps red dot, to practice using what I intend to primarily use. If I can efficiently and rapidly bring a two part apparatus up to target, I can do it with a single part apparatus, (referring to the actual components for aiming, not the physical make up of the device). This is done with the thought in mind that the alignment of the sight with respect to alignment of the eye to the sight changes for red dot compared to irons. Short version, I practice the hard thing for speed as part of a pace plan, then i practice the easy thing in accordance to actual use. Red dot>iron>reflex shooting, practicing in reverse order, with ascending repetitions, so that the primary method of aiming is the freshest in the mind, and most trained. Please note, the method I use for practicing aiming is for dry fire and for static shooting; for tactical or dynamic training environments, I train primarily on the dot, and induce failures of my optic (using an old battery and/or loosening the battery cap) to train myself to reflexively utilize my pace plan. No, I don't induce failures on my irons, I don't know how to do that without risking an unnecessary trip to a gunsmith. If you have any input, I'd be glad to read it over.
Just sent my Px4 Compact off to LTT to get it cut for optics. I've heard it outperforms most full-size pistols with LTT's Compact Carry upgrades. Can't wait to get it back.
Red dots are not faster, red dots are more accurate and do help with combat focus. Unfortunately if you have eye issues that dot could show up as a star burst. Train with both a find what works best for you
I'm old, gen X, and still use iron sights. Red dots are cool and everything, but they are complicated. Complicated things can brake or fail you. Normally, thanks to Mr Murphy, when you need them to actually work.
I think about the practical nature of most defensive shootings and genuinely wonder how many end up using sights at all? It’s a nice idea to train and practice to be efficient with either a dot or irons(both is best) but realistically you’ll likely end up point shooting in a real life defensive use. Just food for thought.
Supperssor height sights for irons, and red dot as well. I just made the switch, and having the dot zeroed to "just the tip 😉" of the front sight post has made it easy. I recommend doing this for people who just made the switch from irons to red dot because i was terrible with a dot when i started due to my shooting form & not being able to easily find the dot. It's like you can push the front sight post out as you're acquiring your target & the dot appears as you do that, then my eyes lock in on the dot & my eyeballs dont focus on the irons anymore. It's a nice experience.
@@armenchuck suppressor height sights because if your dot goes out for whatever reason you can still see your iron sights through your red dot ....unless you have some QD for your pistol if so i would like to see that😅
I’ll always go with a red dot but I prefer to have irons on there as back up. I realize that’s a little more difficult with a pistol that’s more of a rifle set up. For a pistol yeah red dot absolutely but you need to make sure you have the tools with you to take it off and switch it back to your irons if your red dot fails.
I know from experience that nothing sucks more than pulling your firearm and having the battery in the red dot be dead. It was as bright as ever when you left the house for the range hopefully and you didn’t bring extra batteries.
Considering red dot for pistol after 25 years of irons. Not to replace, but for faster acquisition. Not medically necessary. Interested in your reason/s why you dislike RDs?
I go back and forth. I like red dots as much as I like irons, but I like them both for different reasons such as those stated here. I mean imo the best you can do is a red dot with suppressor height sights, rear sight in front of the red dot. You always have a backup if the red dot goes down or if you can’t find the dot in the heat of the moment, but it’s set up in a way that makes it easier to find the dot first before resorting to irons. I think being able to effectively shoot with irons needs to be first priority. I’ve seen a lot of people go straight to a dot because it’s the cool new thing now, but you need to be able to use your irons properly and effectively first, then practice with a red dot. Then practice using irons with a red dot in scenarios where the red dot is functioning and not functioning
@C B I’ve seen it happen 7 times in the last year. Multiple glocks have walked loose as well as a 2500 dollar kimber and a Springfield prodigy. It’s not if, it’s when.
If you learn to shoot intuitively it doesn't take longer. You know where that shot is placed before it hits target. When it leaves the barrel you know if you hit or not.
I only use iron sights on pistols. The new trend towards outfitting pistols like duty rifles is a bit much and muddies the waters of what a pistol exists for. That would be: concealed carry, fighting your way to your rifle and as a last ditch weapon if your rifle goes down. For concealed carry, the 3 shots at 3-7 are point shooting and can be trained for. For fighting to your rifle and using if your rifle has a hard malfunction, you may need to train to 25 or 50 yards. It takes about a second or 2 to get a sight picture at that distant but hitting a man sized torso at that distance is absolute child's play with training. There's just no reason. Adding unnecessary weight and size for negligible benefit.
The weight is next to nothing and the size may be something you'd consider for conceal carry. No reason not to unless your gun is hard to conceal or you're broke.
@@Justin-rq6kf just my opinion, you're entitled to yours. A pistol isn't a primary weapon, any extra weight and height is a detriment. Again, to ME, personally. It's a detriment because if I'm CC'ing then I don't want people to see my weapon, a red dot doesn't do any favors with that. If I'm in full battle rattle then my pistol is going to be on my belt, open carried with 2 spare mags, in that event ANY weight is going to be bad weight because I'll already have a lot of weight on me. And I'll add, I've used red dot pistols, I hit targets just as fast at up to about 35 yards with irons. So to ME, adding any weight and height to get NO added benefit save for possible hard failure of the optic just isn't worth the $. Now, how you use a pistol may be different from how I use a pistol and you're entitled to use a gun however you think is best, that's how freedom works. The Army taught me what the point of a pistol is, when I got out I threw concealed carry in with that. Use a red dot, use a magnified optic, use a musket. Idc. Stating that there are only 2 reasons NOT to put a red dot on a pistol and that 1 of those is because you're "broke" is a pretty arrogant and ignorant, not to mention divisive statement. Where in my original post did I attack anyone or come off as anything but respectfully giving my opinion, my educated opinion, btw? This is the internet so you're going to come back with another measurement of your dick in comment form, even though all I did was clarify my original post and add that your post was a bit aggressive.
I agree. It’s overkill if the intended purpose is concealed carry. Unnecessary weight and one more thing to fail. Also people say backup irons if it fails what happens in close quarters? Will you be able to train for that split second difference of switching between irons ? On a rifle shooting far distances you have time to!
Keep your irons on with your red dot. If your red dot fails, you still have irons. With this in mind, there is no good reason outside of $$$ to not use a red dot unless you carry a pocket pistol, a revolver or just think they are ugly.
Irons for IWB concealed, red dot for OWB open, range and woods carry. Just for the reason Irons are one less thing to get hung up clearing garments. Or having emitter, or window having something covering the sight, when you really need it.
Red dots are vastly superior, there is zero upkeep, as my battery is going strong after a year of EDC lol. Also the chance of them failing is basically zero, at least in my experience. Plus Army trains with red dot sights these days, so I’m used to it.
RDS improved my speed and accuracy of shots on target. In the end, it dont matter how many rounds you shoot, it usually comes down to who hits first and the most times. I can shoot well with either, but I am quicker with RDS, so that is what I shoot.
Just use the Cowboy Way....hit where you look...point shoulder looking over the sights. It's what you're gonna do in a real fire fight anyway so you might as well practice it. Never hear about IT tho.
Team front sight only. I dont use rear sights because they are slower, obscure the target, and the only engagements my handgun will ever be used for is practically point shooting distance (in house failure to fire on the main, or defensive shooting in my own home.)
I have switched to all red dots, but I also strongly encourage the understanding irons. Red dots also force proper fundamentals. Any laziness in grip and sight picture will show. Better red dot shooters make nearly perfect iron shooters.
I am not in either camp, but it would seem that the use case is important. For wilderness carry where draw speed and instinct/muscle memory and reliability are needed (glass can fog, batteries can die), iron sights maybe are best.
i used red dots then i went back to iron sight and i found that i become more proficient with those.. i can use them both.. but i think iron sights are 100% ready when i draw in a real need situation
Back and forth. In my previous assignment, red dot was the no brainer go to because we had nothing but time to train to be professional gun fighters. Now in my current assignment I'm back on irons, just because of the low maintenance and less time training.
Best advantage to irons. The money saved on the optic, the batteries, the time learning the optic. All of which will translate to minimal time gains. So all in all red dots are like surefire lights. They are on your weapon so you can fit in with the cool kids and not get made fun of
For first time hun buyers… buy a red dot put it on and use it while you become proficient with grip and presentation. The dot is a great teacher to you holding and presenting the gun wrong. Once you have it down and you can find the red dot quickly immediately take it off and change nothing while you become proficient with irons. Then put your dot back on and now you have proper fundamentals to using both and you can perform well with both. For my iron sight guys I’d suggest the exact same thing there’s a chance you may have a flawed grip or presentation. Fix it and you’ll run irons and a dot fine. To see what you’re doing wrong draw a line on top of your red dot so your eyes can pick it up instead of having to search for the dot. Just one guys opinion
Another advantage with red dots is you can shoot them under NODs. It’s impossible to use iron sights with night vision. I refused to adopt a red dot on my pistol until I there was an optic with a low enough deck height to be able to co-witness standard height iron sights. Sig finally answered my problem with the Romeo X.
Everyone should learn with irons, no exception. When/if you transition to a red dot, you'll have to learn to shoot with those as well. I transitioned to a red dot a year ago on my duty and off duty. I love my red dots because they do make you faster and more accurate under time. That being said, I still shoot without them to keep me proficient with irons.
Basically... Red dot - keep good batteries in it, don't break it Irons - classic, can be hard to aim with; DEFINITELY don't break em. Both will have environmental disadvantages, Irons at night, dots in day. Do like this guy and keep your irons useable while having a red dot Be trained with both and be effective with whatever you have
Ive never used a red dot on a pistol but i know i can hit my targets with iron sights just fine with regular training and be very proficient with it, so unless its night time and i need a red dot ill stick to iron sights.
