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@@sampatkalyan3103 from someone who worked on circumventing anti-scraping techniques for years, there are tons of ways around just about any anti-scraping technique. There's a point where it becomes more costly, either computationally or financially, but it's incredibly doable.
Lmfao. Tom is such a genius that when he went over to fix a problem at Reddit's he left a few backdoord. They are undetectable too brcause they are in JDSL
i was an earlybird investor in that, too... when tom came into the conference room and pitched jdsl as the solution, honestly, not an unblown mind in the house!
It was brought up towards the end of the video, but one of the big reasons why the shutting down of 3rd party apps is so disliked is because the official app and website is so poor and so difficult to use. 3rd party apps can only really exist because Reddit's official app sucks so much
I've known reddit don't give a crap about their users for years due to their mobile browsing "experience". They do everything possible to make the mobile browsing experience impossible to use to push you into using the app (infinite load times, no mature content, "it looks better in the app" popovers constantly). When I use reddit on my phone I literally click the "desktop browsing" setting to get the normal website and just zoom it in.
"Why doesn't Reddit buy apollo?" if Reddit cared about user experience, their craptastic UX would have been worked on a LONG time ago. As for the fair percentage, I've always been of the opinion that you need to charge enough that 60% of your income covers your costs, 10% can be put into an emergency fund, 20% can go into your training and investment funds, and 10% can go towards profit. Obviously, shareholders would never agree to that but *shrugs*
Reddit didn't even develop the current official app lol. They bought out Alien Blue. At this point I feel like Reddit simply doesn't have mobile app developers to support or update their app. They just bought out another company and used their tech and have now lost the knowledge to improve upon it.
I think buying Apollo makes sense. You get 1.5 million active users on iOS, and iOS users are worth a lot of $$$ when it comes to advertising. If it really costs Reddit 20 million dollars to run Apollo, then you can assign a few engineers to work on optimizing the app to reduce costs and earn back the acquisition cost. I think Reddit lacks vision here and are choosing the easy option to rush an IPO.
Makes equal sense for Reddit imo because Reddit is paying for hosting all this data and their data costs increase constantly over time. People need to remember that in all cases where you don't pay for access to content that's because the platforms are earning money from showing you ads instead, but Reddit's case is even worse because apps like Apollo give you access to their content whilst completely sidestepping their ad-sales meaning Reddit is just a charity at that point paying like suckers to host content that anyone can just leech off and create their own apps with And i've seen a lot of things in development but never saw anyone offer to create and maintain an API to just serve large amounts of data to third parties to make money off of without expecting anything in return
@@liquidsnake6879 Brother, Apollo literally laid it out. Reddit earns $0.12 per user per month in revenue. The API charge to Apollo will be $2.50 per user per month, more than 20 times what they make on their own. That's $20M per year for Apollo. Those same users, if on reddit's own mobile app, would only earn them $1M per year. How does it make any sense to charge this much, if they just want to recoup their 'lost' revenue? It would make sense to charge Apollo maybe $0.13 per user per month, make their revenue back plus some extra. Reddit still makes money from Reddit premium and awards too in that scenario. The 20X charge is to put 3rd party apps out of business completely. But doing that makes no business sense when they would only make $1M more per year (if all Apollo users switched back) when they make $400M per year themselves. Yes, $1M is not $0. But Spez forgets that the way Spez is doing this will affect individual's choices. They will either not use the official reddit or only use reddit with adblockers out of spite, therefore not generating Reddit any additional revenue. Spez would be better off focusing energy into optimizing reddit's overhead costs (like server farms and networking) or making more revenue with better ad deals. A single good ad deal would make more money per year than all the 3rd party apps combined. It's really just ego, greed, and stupidity.
@@Fishpizza1212 exactly. The make 0,12 per user per month. and he then compares it to his own cost. That doesn't make any sense as it gives no indication about the cost per user for reddit. If reddit get 0.12 cents per user per month in reveneue but pays 3$ per user per month then this entire thing blows up fast. The apollo creator compares apples and potatoes.
@@Fishpizza1212 it should not matter how much they make these hey have the right to charge the money for the user based on the cost required to make those api calls plus some. They are not running a non-profit organisation. Where others rip reddit freely.
@@sampatkalyan3103 They have the right, sure. Nobody is calling for a lawsuit. That doesn't mean it's not a really shitty thing to do and extremely hostile to the users.
Reddit does suck sometimes: lame opinions, false facts, astroturfing, scripted videos, bots, ads, etc. But it has so many interesting stuff and different points of view and experiences shared that it makes up for it. But I'm all for moving to another place more transparent and less corporate.
Reddit's API policies are disjointed from the reality that the API calls from apollo are all user driven, not apollo willingly calling the reddit api to farm data which is the entire justification reddit gave for implementing the price policy. Reddit going for an IPO is the real issue here, they should have shifted to a wikipedia based funding model which would have aligned with the community they developed early on when they actually had good people running the site (RIP Aaron)... The greedy path they took is really going to ruin what could have been a much better site.
Apollo didn't even talk to Reddit, they just made a moral stand that Reddit charging anything for it's API is unreasonable and they'd be shutting down as a result. Apollo's POV is unreasonable, Reddit's is reasonable, Reddit is the platform hosting the content, it's the one paying for it to remain hosted on the internet, Apollo pays nothing and gets to drive traffic away from Reddit's apps? I mean for Apollo that's a sweet deal, just sucks for Reddit.
@@liquidsnake6879 you clearly did got follow the author's posts. He was on weekly calls with the reddit team about it. 350 calls per person is normal. What Reddit is talking about is Microsoft and Google farming them for chat gpt models
@@liquidsnake6879 Apollo’s developer has had extensive conversations with Reddit for years; Reddit has given the developer a heads up if minor changes were happening that would impact his app. His issues are the pricing (it’s too high) and timeline to implement the changes (way too quick), NOT that he will have to pay.
@@fauge7 350 calls per person, PER MINUTE is normal? If the problem was just GPT models then you could make the restriction 500 calls per minute as that is well beyond what any real app or person can do and can only be performed by automated systems. But i don't believe this is the only problem even if Reddit doesn't admit it, they have a problem with people redirecting users away from their site and re-rendering their content elsewhere without their ads being shown, it directly harms Reddit's revenue streams
An added complexity though is that all of the content that Reddit has that it is making that 12 cents per user on is user generated, with a lot of it coming from third party apps that have much better tools for managing posts
Companies need to constantly increase profits, and once they meet that market saturation they start doing weird stuff like this and shoot themselves in the foot. Kinda like Netflix cracking down on password sharing
It's definitely nothing to do with Netflix. Cracking down on passwords. The amount of fraud and sharing of accounts is not very appropriate. I understand that there is appropriate uses, but there's also a lot of inappropriate uses. Plus virtually no other streaming service allows this. Netflix allowed it for a decade longer than pretty much everyone else.
@@ThePrimeTimeagen we share all of our other passwords, Disney+, Hulu , HBO, Amazon... But i think it's fairly equal comparison, Netflix had met market saturation and wants to continue to grow.
Prime is an engineer at Netflix, by the way, the conflict of interest on these matters is obvious. Hopefully changes like this encourage people to sail the high seas.
@@ThePrimeTimeagen sorry to say this but they are the same thing. Just because you work for one company doesn't make them immune from greed. No other company is implementing as much crack down as Netflix, but they will all follow suit.
@@mskiptr it really depends on how many services are being joined together to get all the data for users > communities > posts > comments, and cyclical complexity of those systems working together to formulate an optimized response. I also don't think that api fees should be based solely on the computational costs. Reddit paid to build these backends and should be able to charge whatever they want to recuperate these costs and even profit. GPT is awesome and worth the cost imo, but reddit is also awesome and accessing the vast amount of data they have collected is also worth the cost. If you can't justify their costs then third parties need to rethink their business models. Piggy backing off a successful company to reduce your own costs then complaining when that free ride goes away is pretty immature.
@@Eric-vh4qg "it really depends on how many services are being joined together" If your simple database retrieve operation costs as much computationally as running a multi-gigabyte language model on enterprise gpus, maybe you don't deserve to be paid after all.
@@isodoubIet compiling the dataset into a language model is the expensive part, running it for it to guess the next word is cheap. I think you are overestimating how much compute goes into a llm response, which also highly depends on how many layers of transformers a language model is applying to any given prompt. GPT4 uses a lot of layers to get semantic themes for the prompt, but a single layer isn't that expensive. There are LLMs you can run on your local machine now. You are also underestimating how complex queries become when you are working with big data and have to split the data up between multiple services.
Tbh people who scrape and re-host Reddit's data should be immediately sued for it for various reasons, one of them being that the users who posted it didn't give you permission to re-host their content elsewhere.
@@karama300video Reddit needs to be reminded that their whole business model is based on user generated content and links to other websites content. Reddit makes money off of other website's content this way. They don't have to pay for it.
@@karama300video By creating an account, you agreed to Reddit’s terms of service… so you provided Reddit permission to use your content for free, but not any scraper who rehosts it
@@davak72 Reddit terms days that you can not scrap their website? Probably not, even if it was true, it is not enforceable, scrapring bots are very hard to detect.
Wait the estimate in the In the Apollo post doesn't make sense. All he does, is calculating the revenue per user and equating that to the cost per user on Apollo, two competently different metrics. If reddit's cost per user is at for example 3$ per month this entire thing just explodes.
Another angle of this that's really important is that Reddit's official app is not ADA compliant and not usable for many people with disabilities. Also, their mod tools are shit so third-party apps are basically relied on by: 1. disabled people; 2. moderators; and 3. power users. So basically these apps did Reddit's job for them and provided a lot of value to the platform that Reddit was too incompetent or stubborn to do themselves. Even now after all the outrage and closing down the third party apps they have refused to introduce any accessibility or moderation tools. Even if these apps were marginally affecting ad revenue, they made Reddit a healthier platform and a better experience for everyone. They provided access to many people who are unable or unwilling to use Reddit via its official app. This move by Reddit exemplifies they way that they ignore and devalue the contributions that the community freely provides to their company, primarily in the form of labor from sub moderators. Reddit would be nothing without its community yet it continually goes out of its way to piss them off for the sake of consolidating control.
My favorite part was the discussion about how many requests apollo uses compared to reddit (What if it's 1000x?), when it's explained 2 paragraphs or so down from where he paused reading.
It really sucks for the apollo guy, just like it sucked for the covid layoffs. You just wake up one day and you lose your job. And in this case, because of corporate greed.
@@sampatkalyan3103 A more reasonable take is that he expected the api calls would have a reasonable cost when they do become paid for. 20x markup isn't really reasonable.
@@ruukinen Reddit's costs are reasonable, 1000 requests a minute for 24 cents is not wild. And note that for you to spend a LOT on this you need to sustain this rate of requesting for a long time, most Reddit users aren't furiously clicking 1000 articles a minute (not even sure Apollo could request, get and render them that quickly lol), 100 in a minute is a reasonable free tier. There's many ways Apollo could handle this, they could establish a clock to make users wait a few seconds between switching articles, they might just put a banner telling the user how many free calls they have left, because ultimately the users are logged in with their own oAuth, you might have to MAKE users login with their own oAuth to use Apollo but there's ways to keep Apollo around, another idea is they could reach some agreement with Reddit to serve Reddit's ads on Apollo.. but they're not interested in figuring anything out, it's a moral decision to take it down in hopes that the backlash will force Reddit to revert the decision which they shouldn't. Reddit's side is not unreasonable and Apollo's devs aren't rushing to host large APIs at their own personal expense that others are using to make money in their place, nobody is because we tend to not be dumb, and you can call them greedy and i'd challenge your own greed expecting to be paid in exchange for every hour you spend in the office at work
@@ruukinen their API, their wish. And What was he thinking lol. That he can suck business from reddit using their own infrastructure that they built and taking their consumers from the one who made the infrastructure.
people with a custom reddit app probably do make way more money for reddit though, like WAY more. like probably the average active user just occasionally searches on google and finds a reddit post or posts his question on reddit or something, he probably doesnt see nearly as much ads
The whole thing sounds ridiculous IMO. Apollo should only be charge for value added queries - otherwise you're charging based on whether they access reddit through a browser or a native app. Guess what? It's still the same user accessing the same data, they just don't like reddit's GUI for some reason or other. Now if Apollo is making its own money off ads, it's not showing reddit's ads or it's doing additional queries beyond a normal browser, then fine - ask for a cut of that or require them to embed reddit's ads as well - otherwise you're essentially discriminating based on browser. I could be totally wrong about how Apollo works as I know nothing about it, but if it is what I think it is, it it should be treated as just another kind of browser unless it's doing something different.
Spez lying about Apollo threatening Reddit is hilarious because Spez is the guy who used to edit other users' comments and write comments under mod names
phone users don't have adblock, they're quick short engagements they're probably the most profitable users. and spez just pissed all the ones on apple hardware with apple hardware pockets off.
I don't think you can calculate by revenue lost, because not all users would use reddit if 3rd party apps weren't available. So its too optimistic (for reddit) to say that *all* Apollo users are users who are not using the official app.
I was wondering why Apollo can't just spawn oauth users for each of their individual users and keep them within the free tier or offset the costs over to them (they probably already do this by authenticating their users to Reddit through their respective oauths), but looking at the app i can see why that's unlikely to work as their users would likely quickly exceed the free tier, it's 370 requests per day on AVERAGE but that's probably some people who regularly use it probably greatly exceed this and others don't use Apollo every day, so it averages to 370 requests daily per user and it's unclear how concentrated these requests are You could still do it but you'd be at a clear disadvantage against the normal Reddit app. It sucks because Reddit's explanation is also sensible and it's a problem for them to be getting leeched off of by other applications driving traffic away from them whilst consuming their data which they're the ones paying to host. Though i simpatize with the Apollo dev, i simpatize more with Reddit's POV, and would tell the Apollo dev that it's a bad business idea for your product to be basically a re-skin that relies on someone else's internals in order to work.
Yes, buying Apollo and other 3rd party apps would be the smart thing to do. Another even better thing to do would be to set up another API the 3rd party apps use to serve reddit ads the same way reddit does, and reddit keeps the money. That would solve this problem completely as reddit would not lose any revenue. Reddit could also incorporate that into their ad service for marketers, so they could specifically target ads for mobile and iphone users. Overall this would make reddit a better experience for everyone, including reddit, as all the hard work of developing and maintain mobile apps would be outsourced for them for free, essentially, reducing their overhead, and making them more profitable to future investors in their IPO. On the other hand, an IPO for reddit makes absolutely zero sense. Reddit does not have an explosive growth business model that would benefit from a huge cash injection. Reddit does not have a business model like say a factory, where they make revenue based on how many widgets they produce. In a factory's business model, if they got a huge cash injection, they could spend it on capital investments like a second factory, produce twice as much widgets, and take home twice the revenue. Reddit does not have anything like that. If they got $10B tomorrow, there is nothing they could spend that on that would double their revenue. Reddit does not "produce" anything. The most they could do is try to reduce overhead by building their own server farms to save on AWS costs. Reddit already has 400-500 million monthly active users and subreddits in nearly every language, and is the 10th most visited website in the world, so they have reached near saturation in the user market. They could try to increase the ad revenue per user, but their site is already inundated with ads. Every 5th post is a paid ad and they ads on the side. The biggest reason reddit would fail to increase revenue is that's reddit's business model is entirely predicated on user generated content. If the users decide one day to stop posting on their site, their site is doomed. This is what happened to digg in 2010. Digg was a reddit competitor back then, but Digg did something really stupid one day, and their users just left the site for places like reddit. This can and would happen to reddit too in 2023. The protest and reddit blackout is a message to Spez and the other reddit co-founders that reddit is dependent on their users, not the other way around. Many commentators say that a 48 hour blackout is not enough as reddit could just wait it out. I say its not about it. It's about sending the message that users are in control and if they can do it once, they can do it again. Spez and others will monitor the traffic in that 48 hours and see how much traffic they lose and how much ad revenue they lose. If they have any sense, it will scare the shit out of them and remind them what happened to Digg 13 years ago. Spez has been notoriously stubborn and up his own ass ever since he took over after his fellow co-founder Aaron Swartz died in 2013. Aaron Swartz technical skills (He literally made RSS and the Creative Commons License) and philosophy made reddit the site it is today (Reddit is largely the exact same site as it was in 2013). The only things Spez has done in the mean time is try and try to squeeze the golden goose that lays the golden egg. And make a crappy redesign that made it easier for advertisers. If Aaron was still alive, reddit would be a much better place, and just as successful. He would have reduced reddit's overhead by using his technical skills to setup their own server farms, getting off AWS, and optimizing storage and networking costs (think Discord switching to Go and a better Database). Aaron would have kept the greedy venture capitalist vultures away and only take money from good hearted people like Steve Wozniak. In all estimation, Spez is trying desperately to IPO Reddit so he and the other execs can sell their shares and cash out, so he can be a billionaire.
When reddit says they earn 12 cents per user, that probably includes users of 3rd party apps. Most users are probably not exclusively on that app either. And they also probably sell user data, which is generated regardless of the client app. And earning X is not profit. There are expenses too. Reddit does not need to pay for 3rd party app development. Something that increases reddit's value. What I want to say is there is a lot of speculation.
I'd absolutely pay $1/mo for Reddit if it allowed me to keep using Apollo… Heck, even $2! That's way more than they'll ever get from me directly, that's for sure!
Why not charge by data amount ? Just charge by output bandwidth .. If the app is badly made it's only their problem and I feel like it's a much better way to charge an API client.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Apollo’s profit math looks incorrect. He’s calculating net profit, which is not the full cost of hosting a user. Wouldn’t you need gross profit here? That would include the cost of storing/transferring data and management. Reddit still pays for all of this for 3rd party apps.
I completely disagree with prime that it should be done on lost revenue. it should absolutely be done on costs. Firstly an Apollo user is NOT a lost reddit app user, this is a fallacy, and it's very obvious when you think about users with disabilities using better third party apps, besides a lot of users despise the reddit app so they use a browser which likely has adblockers or just stop using reddit altogether but with a decent third party app they're just gonna use the app. secondly why are you expecting a third party app to make MORE money in revenue than reddit does per API call? in what world is that realistic. doing it based on cost is what's most sensible.
So an average reddit user generates 12 cents of revenue and makes about 350 requests per day. The break even point would be 12 cents for 350 requests then, or (12/350) * 1000 = 34.29ct/1000 requests. Make it 35 for simplicity. Then you have to maintain an API and have a team to develop that based on your customers' (those who use your API) feedback and provide support and documentation for them, so that's a bit of extra cost. You also want to make some money, so 40ct for 1000 requests seems reasonable. So you would pay reddit slightly more than what they'd get from one of their users that they don't get because they use your product now. In turn you get profit from your users now, or maybe not, depending on how you deal with them. Given that your users all use an apple product (proving that they are rich and don't care about customer service quality), you can probably charge them $50/month to use your app. Of course if the 12 cents aren't per the 350 requests but for 350*30 requests per month, then the price would go down by a factor of 30, so about 1.33 cents / 1000 requests
All-parties consent rules are evil. Even with one-party consent rule, they can’t publish sensitive data, that’s still illegal. And if you ask “but what if they don’t get caught?”, well, you already asserted they don’t get caught; if one party breaks the law and isn’t found, does it matter practically they broke broke the law harder? What a one-party consent rule allows is for a small fish to have leverage against a big fish if the big fish tried to screw the small fish over.
Even if Reddit wanted to charge $5 a month a user, I would understand. However there is a bigger picture at play here. Reddit, as a platform, has been sliding for years now, in terms of censorship and general mod wankyness. This was exemplified by how the whole API pricing matter was handled by the admins. Rather than treat the 3rd party dev as a cash cow that extends your revenue, they were given a "fuck you" price; the price you give when you don't want to say no but you don't want to do the work either. For me honestly, Reddit could do an about turn tomorrow and spez would issue a personal apology but too bitter a taste has been left in my mouth to ever go back.
I read on wikipeida that Apollo was "thretened" by huffman blackmailing for 10m, and the verge as "source". It doesent make any sense as they are reddit users. Why threaten someone about users that are already yours?
Dont understand what the issue with the pricing is. Instead of providing access to all users, users of moderation tools can just get their own api access? Just implement a setting into the application? I think the main problem is inexperienced non professional developers doing these apps. Most of your work as a professional is about cost and engineering based on what the user and budget allows. If every user would just pay 25$/Month he would have an ok business running and could still use the api. Or reddit users getting their own api credentails and setting them in the settings for free and paying directly to reddit.
"I live in a one party state (Canada) therefore I can record" This is wrong. If one of the parties live in an all party consent state then the conversation needs all the parties to consent. Don't how this applies with Canada tho.
How is the costs not app agnostic and not user login based. Don't give the app the ability to remove ads unless there account is a premium acct. Reddit gets all the money except for people who buy the app on the app store.
This is exactly what I predicted. People upload their data to AI and get paid for it. Eventually it will be a system where anyone can upload data to the AI and get paid based on its use. For example if you create a new mathematical proof that does some amazing thing and the AI uses it constantly then you would be paid according to that data.
creating a new mathematical proof has commercial applications that pay much, much better than ChatGPT will pay you. it's pennies on the dollars to give your discovery to a parrot bot.
The entire price questioning bit at 15-16 mins feels a bit weird, surely it would be something like (0.12/avg. req per usr per month) * 1.2 because then third party apps would be able to exist while still giving Reddit a profit incentive (if the third party app can't monetise an average per user per month to over $0.144 then something's wrong)
literally all of reddits value is generated by its users, they just wanted to squeeze a bit more out of them. Also, lol, charging the user for creating the content that is the entire value of the company is not crazy? What kind of crazy pills are you on?
How could you possibly do that? You can't really tell what the 3rd party app will do with the result of the requests it makes, can you? 3rd party app could potentially just not render the ads at all, since it will only use the information it wants from the request.
@@TheFelipe10848 Reddit could implement a credit system for their API. When a 3rd party app displays a Reddit ad (as verified by API requests to Reddit's ad server), it gains credits. These credits can be used to "buy" API request bandwidth.
@@shahidshahmeerWhat I'm more in doubt about is the "force 3rd party apps to show them" part of OPs comment. I don't know how it would be done, though there is probably a way to do this for sure, no way these ad companies would pay sites without making sure, right? Just need to learn more about ad services in general I guess
@@TheFelipe10848 You could simply revoke their api access, some apps might still slip through the cracks, but they wouldn't lose much revenue over these apps anyway, for the big apps like Apollo it would be pretty obvious if they don't comply
@@rogerzhang5993 is that bc federal interest rates are at 5.25% as of may 3 2023? So it's harder to get a loan if I were a VC? (One can have dreams lol)
@@HelloThere-xs8ss yes, more specifically it’s harder for companies like reddit to get loans from VCs, the VCs are the ones who already have money, but if they can get 6% from the bank why on earth would they lend money to a big tech company
Why would Apollo quit before seeing what the market would bear? Save reddit results to your own DB, use your own API's, offer paid access to those who want real-time updates and at least see how it goes before quitting.
Why not just make apollo users put their 100 request per second free key in the app and use that for their requests? If your malicious you might as well load-balance across unused keys (user asleep etc.) if thats not illegal
I don't understand all the talk about 0.12 cents here or $2.50 there. Aren't they losing many millions of dollars from paying the people making these decisions, and then losing millions or even losing literally everything from those decisions? Seems to me they'd do better just putting the Apollo dev in charge so he can improve the user experience and bring in more people. Use the immediate goodwill to create a user-payment system, and bam, profits. It just doesn't seem like they're actually trying to become profitable here.
This might sound dumb but can't reddit CEO fire the current app developers and hire the third party app developers who built Apollo so that they could implement all the best features from all the third party app into one official app? I'm thinking this would be a win - win scenario.
So this guy built Apollo almost by himself. I think it will be much easier to buy the app than to negotiate a deal with the Apollo owner for him to work for the Reddit. But again, Reddit does not want to make any deals
Not all reddit users think apollo is the better app. Or not betterer enough to use instead of the reddit app. Those users might be dumb but it's their prerogative to think that. You can never satisfy everyone with just one app which is why third party apps usually exist. Getting rid of the existing reddit app and replacing it entirely with the apollo app would anger those that liked the reddit app, even if it is mind boggling that such people exist. There is no catch-all solution that can be achieved with just one app.
@@ruukinen "Not all reddit users think apollo is the better app. Or not betterer enough to use instead of the reddit app" I mean if you enjoy seeing your app opening 3 times slower and get hit by ads every other infinite scroll then their definition of "better" is too absurd for me to bother.
Hope you revisit this topic soon - since around 6 hours after you shared this clip - almost a third of all heavy rotation subreddits gone fully private and/or are not accessible anymore seemingly randomly via 3rd-party-clients. Reddit definitely shot itself in both feet through the neck, like for example stack-overflow/stack-exchange did not so long ago. Fun times ahead, goodbye reddit.
Reddit Moderators have shown themselves to be stereotypical bullies - when they have the power, they abuse it. When they are on the receiving end of bullying, they roll over and submit with barely even a whimper. Pathetic power-hungry bullies, acting the way pathetic power-hungry bullies act when their power is threatened by someone who actually has the power to take THEIR power away from them. I'm expecting the Moderation to become even WORSE on Reddit in the next few months as the Moderators take out their anger on Users - and like the bullies they are, I'm also expecting that they're going to blame the CEO for making them do this. Or that they'll use this as a tactic to make Reddit as hostile as possible (and while it's bad right now, it can get so, so much worse) and lower the value of it to anyone looking to invest in it, to hurt the CEO.--
I think the apollo dev in the call should have been more serious and should have talked more clearly, not using metaphors in every sentence. He said the offer was a joke yet it wasnt? Also I wouldn't blame reddit for misunderstanding that and later still thinking that the apollo dev secretly was threatening them.
Reddit should negotiate with high volume apps to make sure high volume 3rd party apps pay at most 30% of their revenue for the API, that would be reasonable.
I think its fair. Because those users on these apps dont want to use reddit in the first place, so you can't consider them 'stolen' or 'lost' profit in the first place.
@@fuzzy-02 But they are a netcost to reddit now that they do use reddit via third party solutions, so it can't exactly be free. The absolute minimum would be at cost. A more reasonable approach would be costs + margin (1x?). 20x is not reasonable no matter the product.
What is up with this guy? This shit is hilarious. I have watched 10 of his videos and he is so chaotic and unpredictable. His reading skills are whack hahahah
The average cost per person is $0.12 per month, not per day. Somebody on the chat said $0.12 per DAY and everybody including Prime started to calculate based off it. If that value was per day, Reddit would have generated more than $20 billion per year in revenue.
You are relying on an API that can change anytime, you did a bet on it, also you never paid a penny to use it. To apollo dev, you will work years of your life without receiving any payment for it?. Did you know API maintenance/development and usage bandwidth create costs? Let me tell you someone has to pay it. I dont know why all is about Apollo, there are plenty of apps in same situation, the difference is not crying everywhere, and are not for Apple devices, maybe thats why?. There are many socialist degens btw, just 10% on appolo, omfg.
If the api can’t be priced in a way that makes sense for both, why discuss further? Regardless of how good Apollo might be, it is a parasite. I don’t know how anyone would have predicted this project to have longevity
