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REDGARD FAILED FLOOD TEST!!! --- Why Did it CRACK and BUBBLE UP??? 

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Redgard waterproofing membrane is one of the most popular products used when tiling a shower. Because of its availability at Home Depot and ease of use, Redgard is the waterproof membrane of choice for many DIY'ers and Contractors. Because Redgard is a roll-on or paint brush applied product it is easier to use than Schluter Kerdi or Oatey pan liners.
I did this test because I see so many people use it at the wrong rate of application and I wanted to see how it performs when applied to the rate as specified in the technical data sheet (TDS). In order to meet IAMPO standards for a shower pan, Redgard must be applied in two coats at a rate of 80 square feet per gallon for each coat. One gallon of Redgard will cover 40 square feet at this rate.
My test module had an area of 2.88 square feet, so I divided 2.88/80 to get the ratio of the test module to the 80 square feet rate as specified. The ratio was .036 or 3.6%. To calculate the amount of Redgard to be applied, I multiplied the ratio (.036) to the gallon in fluid Ounces (128). The amount equaled approximately 4.6 fluid ounces per coat.
The first coat was applied over the dry pack mortar bed in the test module that had cured for 24 hrs. The mortar bed looked dry (light gray in color) and had hardened properly. The surface of the mortar bed was clean, smooth, and free of contaminants. The first coat dried for 24 hrs before applying the the second coat. It was noted that the first coat dried nicely and evenly without any visible cracking.
The second coat was applied in the same manner as the first and allowed to dry for 48 hours. Upon inspection the second coat had cracked significantly in the changes of plane of the test module, notably where the bottom and sides of the test module intersected.
A third coat was applied in the corners to cover the cracks that had formed and allowed to dry for 24 hours after which the water was poured into the test module and allowed to soak under intermittent observation and time lapse video.
Time lapse video showed almost immediate change in color from the dark red (dry) color to the light pink (wet) color of the Redgard. Also, a leak formed in the lower right corner of the module after approximately 60 minutes.
After eight hours, the water was removed from the module and the membrane was inspected. Upon inspection, a small crack was observed in the lower right corner that had leaked. It was noted that this crack had been covered by the third coat previously applied over the cracking that happened after the second coat had dried. Also observed were small bubbles that were filled with water in the surface of the Redgard that covered the mortar bed. The surface of the Redgard that covered the mortar bed was also soft and broke apart easily.
My conclusion is that the Redgard was applied over the mortar bed too soon (24 hours). Even though it is common practice for installers to apply Redgard the next day after the dry pack is installed, this time frame may need to be extended.
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28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 639   
@kat7471
@kat7471 2 года назад
Redgard isn't fully cured until it stays red when wet. It turns red pretty quickly when dry, but you're supposed to sprinkle water on it to test for cure. If the drops turn pink, it's not cured. Depending on humidity, it can take 2 or 3 days to fully cure. You may have just not let it cure long enough. If it's not cured when you do the flood test, it's the same as if you mixed water into the bucket, which is why it turned to mush when you scraped it off. Also, Redgard cracks if it's applied too thickly. I usually apply multiple thinner coats until any cracks stay filled. I also always let the mortar bed cure till a piece of plastic taped over the surface stays dry, and I use redgard fabric tape (or a cheap knockoff from Amazon) in the corners. Redgard is a great and affordable product when done right, but it takes a lot longer than any of the fabric membrane systems. If you have plenty of stuff to do while you wait, it's a decent option. I'd still do schluter or laticrete if I have the budget.
@j8ke937
@j8ke937 Год назад
@@private8559 well it's equivalent to a 30mil pan liner so I'm going to disagree with you there.
@DoItToProveIt
@DoItToProveIt Год назад
My guess is that because your mortar bed was in a plexiglass box, even though it cured, moisture was still present; trapped in the box and sealed by the redgard, hence the blisters.
@wyseguy77
@wyseguy77 Год назад
This is exactly what happened.
@atg1338
@atg1338 Год назад
No kidding
@cervofun
@cervofun Год назад
So is no point in using the red guard, If you have to wait 2-3 days after your pan installation (in the case of a mortar pan).
@peterdean5300
@peterdean5300 Год назад
Yes damp cement
@leeboriack8054
@leeboriack8054 Год назад
Clever!
@mouselt1
@mouselt1 Год назад
I've watched several of your videos and want to say I appreciate your professionalism and ethics. What you have taught me is as much as I love tile showers, I would never have one installed in my home simply because of the poor quality of "quality" products.
@davegordon6943
@davegordon6943 2 года назад
Bravo sir. Most people don't realize that there's a difference between ounces and fluid ounces. One measures weight and one measures volume
@MrDaveBurl
@MrDaveBurl 2 года назад
Appears that there was a reaction between the mud and redgard. The covered glass coating seemed intact while the mud surface coating disintegrated. Maybe a bonding sealer over the mud before applying the redgard?
@user-xk5so7wb2t
@user-xk5so7wb2t Год назад
EXCELLENT VIDEO! Looks like the (underlayment) mortar wasn't fully cured/dried out. (allowing the Redgard not to fully cure either) *the mortars moisture and air pockets were squeezed out due to the weight of the water on top the redgard. Best options in this Test. 1st. put your mortar w/ your needed slope, over the raw plywood. allow 24/48hr to cure. Then install your gray liner & test for leaks. then do your 1-1.5" of mortar thickness only. allow to dry 1-2days. use moisture strips/meter before 2 coats of Redgard, allow that to cure 24-48hrs. Then ready to install your Tile.
@mikegrasso9826
@mikegrasso9826 2 года назад
Glass box is an excellent idea, but try using glass box, mud the bottom as you did but put pieces of Durock/cement board on the side walls as if it were an actual shower….. if waterproofing does fail you should still be able to see the moisture through the glass on the Durock…. Just an idea
@aarona4945
@aarona4945 2 года назад
I agree with Mike G but but simply running cement board into the mortar bed and up the sides and then taping the joint would prove its not failing because of the dissimilar surfaces.
@MichaelM-to4sg
@MichaelM-to4sg 2 года назад
Few if any professionals use Durock or cement board walls. That’s diy skill trade 🤣. Regardless, how is mud walls or cement board accounting for the Redguard breaking down in under 8 hours of standing water? As Isaac shows, the Redguard is no longer an elastomer membrane when submerged in water for under 8 hours. This is why no professional licensed tile contractor I know uses Redguard. The scary part is that it’s distributed in big box stores where the least skilled tilers such as diy homeowners and flippers are buying materials. These are the people who’s lack of skill needs the most idiot-proof, fail safe waterproofing. Instead these folks are being sold a product that even with the most diligent workmanship is not waterproof.
@doubledarefan
@doubledarefan 2 года назад
Put a piece of Durock on one side of the glass box, and a piece of other cement board material on the opposite side, leaving 2 sides glass. Then you would be able to see if any water is seeping between the Durock/cement board and the base before it meets the glass.
@Gixxr11
@Gixxr11 Год назад
@@MichaelM-to4sg what do professionals use on walls if no durock?
@RuizBoyz24
@RuizBoyz24 Год назад
@@Gixxr11 following....
@jaywalters1248
@jaywalters1248 2 года назад
You also need to wait 24 plus hours before water test. Blisters are from the red guard not cured, the base was not cured long enough which delayed red guard from curing.
@tinman1955
@tinman1955 2 года назад
Is it possible that the mortar wasn't dry enough to allow the Regard to cure? Is it possible that the glass box, being nonporous, is trapping moisture in the mortar? For what it's worth I Redgarded a cardboard box and filled it with water. Been holding water for a year.
@AlexB-hp3dj
@AlexB-hp3dj 2 года назад
I've done tested myself and for me it only works when I spread thin layers especially when using a brush cuz redgard does not lay down. I would always use a fiber mesh for corners and use a roller to spread even smooth coats elsewhere. I would like you to do that same test using a roller and making sure it is smooth. Now as far as what the instruction says that amount to me is too much. But I'm sure it will work if spread right. It is hard to achieve a smooth finish with that amount when applying it with a brush, that's why it failed. We are the professionals and at the end of the day we find out what works and how it works. Keep up the good work. I'm starting to record my own videos hopefully I put them out there soon.
@ericdukes130
@ericdukes130 2 года назад
Thin layers is exactly what’s needed.
@AK-ky3ou
@AK-ky3ou 2 года назад
Part of the issue is the glass, you’ve got a moisture trap between the 2 waterproof surfaces, there is nowhere for the moisture in the mud to go.
@visualimpactcarpenters
@visualimpactcarpenters 2 года назад
You bet and the difference in curing between two different substrates-plexi/dry pack the bubbles are because of off gassing of dry pack and no where for the gases to go, absalutly need a rubber pan liner for a water proof design!!!
@sloanjackson8
@sloanjackson8 2 года назад
I just took a week to carefully put about 4 healthy layers on my shower.. base.. after flood test yesterday I had the EXACT same problem.. I couldn't find the leak. The wet redgard totally crumbled.
@Aaron86v
@Aaron86v 2 года назад
I think 4 is way too much, you shouldn't need that much. The more you put the longer time it will need to cure, not just dry, especially if you're in a conditioned home.
@sloanjackson8
@sloanjackson8 2 года назад
@@Aaron86v do you think if I did 12 hours between coats and let it cure for a few days after my last coat, it would be ready for mortar bed?
@ShellDude01
@ShellDude01 2 года назад
@@Aaron86v it's been a bit over a year since I used RG... Not on a pan. I used it (with mesh tape on my seams and corners) to seal a shower wall. To meet the data sheet specs for an ISO water proof rating you end up with 4 coats. It is a horribly slow process, acceptable if you are DIY, but I definitely see why professionals avoid this stuff.
@phildo6371
@phildo6371 2 года назад
Great videos. I'm close, up in Southern Oregon. I just watched your mud set video. I learned in So Cal, so I have had the pleasure of setting travertine mud set. Really sad that it's becoming a lost art. I'm teaching my son on a job real soon. Keep up the good work. 👍
@thecovids9206
@thecovids9206 Год назад
Red guard fails if concrete is not done drying or put on too thick it will bubble every time. I only use red guard for handicap pans, curbs, framed custom sized inset soaps dishes, seams, and over cinder block seats. Any concrete shower pan that extends above the slab gets an Oatley pan liner. Tip for today is use a large concrete stepping stone cut on a 45 for floating corner seat. Double it up wedge it into the tile and versabond it to the concrete board. This saves time and money and takes a sledgehammer to remove it.
@willieebean8223
@willieebean8223 2 года назад
I’d like to see this redone with fiber mesh tape in the seams n use a mil gauge for thickness n get a 6 mil rating n then test im curious tile coach!
@heavymetal2027
@heavymetal2027 Год назад
Tried the stuff on cementboard in the shower waited 2 weeks before applying made sure seams where all cured. Applied redguard and FOLLOWED the instructions on pail. Waited another 2 weeks before starting tiles. Checked the redguard... peeled off with no effort. No sticky sticky to concrete board. Think I bought a pail that froze and was later thawed out. I go back to Kerdi
@nous_defions
@nous_defions 2 года назад
Isaac, the way I apply redgard may be a bit unconventional and impractical for most professionals trying to knockout a project or job as quickly as possible. I use a roller and apply a very light coat. I do this about a dozen times between flash times. Because of the light coats, the coat dries within an hour. If I have the willpower, I'll knock out three to six coats in a day. Usually this process takes a couple of days. On my last couple of coats i'll apply it a little more liberally. The end result is a pretty solid thick membrane. I've never had an issue with cracking in the seams or corners using this light coat method. I suppose you can say its a quality over quantity approach. I suspect most builder just want to glob the product on the job and knock it out in one or two coats and be done with it to save time, but if you take the time, redgard is a product that works, and works superb.
@billymacktexasdetective5827
Talk about wasting time and money... 12 coats of redgard? Give me a schluter kerdi system any day of the week. Jesus, 12 coats...
@chui19801
@chui19801 7 месяцев назад
Maybe the solution is to do a thin coat of epoxy over the base of sand mix and then RedGuard. If you think of it, that sand mix base was made with water right? Unless you get it to heated temperature, it will always have some moisture. just my opinion.
@nunyabidness5150
@nunyabidness5150 Год назад
Yup, soon as i heard people were trusting that stuff verses the old school preslope pan way. I knew we would start seeing alot of problems in showers.
@DavidBrown-ek8it
@DavidBrown-ek8it 2 года назад
Redgaurd seems to work best with multiple thin coats if you go heavy or don't allow it to dry between coats you'll get cracking and blistering. I use it on ever job but I don't trust it as a 100 percent waterproof. Also as you stated the color change gets me. So I build a water in water out and then coat it. If redgaurd fails im still good. I also don't agree with a potential mold sandwich. If no air gets in either side of a double vapor barrier it's just water
@brandonengel2444
@brandonengel2444 2 года назад
Red guard is an elastomeric product. Any time moisture is present in or below the surface it will create voids in the product(blistering typically). Silicone coating would be better. Silicone is moisture cured where elastomeric is not.. I enjoy your videos! 👍
@georgethomashangliterjunio4643
If the water could somehow permeate the membrane I would presume it would be due to the weight of the standing water, which is not a real world scenario. Tile a applied directly to the membrane would only expose the membrane to the small amount water absorbed by the grout and thin-set.
@eamonnmcstravick2721
@eamonnmcstravick2721 2 года назад
Try priming the bed ,on the waterproofing I use we prime ,and use tape in corners,🇮🇪🇮🇪
@bcarlisle2000
@bcarlisle2000 Год назад
That is terrible! So glad I watched this.. was about to do my new install
@kob8634
@kob8634 Год назад
Sure would be great to see a side-by-side comparison with some of the other products.
@RaulCojocariu
@RaulCojocariu 2 года назад
Might be that it needs more time to dry like 24 hrs per coat other wise it leaves microscopic pores and possible even the cement needs more time to dry for the red guard to work. But this was a great lesson for all of us. I would never use redguard in a shower pan only on vertical surfaces where water cant pool, I much prefer the the laticrete membrane better quality all around and saves time in drying time if it has to be left more to dry.
@clydeusa6596
@clydeusa6596 Год назад
During test, should use moisture meter. On all materials.
@EliteGeeks
@EliteGeeks Год назад
Just to use as a control. Do the exact same test but give everything twice as long to dry on each stage
@markrasulov496
@markrasulov496 2 года назад
Just recently I was fixing a leaked shower, demo showed the previous installer used red guard instead of a rubber liner🤦‍♂️That’s a lot a faith in red-guard or carelessness I don’t know…
@cbriggs132
@cbriggs132 10 месяцев назад
Waterproofing a specifically designed permeable dry pack? Two types of mortar beds... Permeable and waterproof.
@rogerlost5851
@rogerlost5851 2 года назад
I've never used Red Guard, but I emember people in the comments on this channel on previous videos mentioning that when you paint the layers on you need to paint the strokes in a single direction for each coat (and different directions on each coat). So for the first coat paint in only vertical strkes, then for the second coat use only horizontal strokes. But yeah this product just doesn't seem reliable to me, I'd never use it.
@Mr.Pop0
@Mr.Pop0 2 года назад
I only use redgard as a back up to my laticrete fabric membrane.
@darceytim
@darceytim 2 года назад
Blisters probably mean user error. Too thick or not dry.
@johnbell1246
@johnbell1246 2 года назад
Yeah No. Keep moving craigslist,beta soy boy.
@Vera-xu3xw
@Vera-xu3xw 2 года назад
I'm tileing on a 1st floor cement foundation. I used redguard and when I pull up some two inch shower floor tiles (because I screwed up) the redguard came up too. I just said screw it and put the tile down with missing sections of redguard. I'm no pro (obviously) BUTT I used a good sealer and grout. I actually wished I never used it.
@xmicahcorex
@xmicahcorex 2 года назад
Can you test Mapei Aquadefense next?! Please. I’m thinking that the difference you’re seeing from the sides to the mortar is that the mortar bed most likely sucked out the moisture before the red guard was able to cure like it was supposed to. Cracking in the corner is likely the problem area where one side is drying at one speed and the other is drying too fast cause the mortar is sucking out the moisture. If you use redguard you may have to prime the raw mortar spots before using it, or just use Laticrete.
@georgewelker853
@georgewelker853 Год назад
I would think that something like that would have a cure time and it would act totally different than before the cure time. Kind of like latex based paint. Watch fresh exterior paint, for the first few months the color lightens when it gets wet
@fliggapin0
@fliggapin0 2 года назад
Awesome content brother , Custom must love you right now 😜🤣. Thank you, much love ✌🏽♥️
@dymarke
@dymarke Год назад
I have seen several of your videos, thank you, and I'm mostly seeing what doesn't work or what fails, which pan method are you not repairing? So in other words which pan most consistently gives good results? I have always been a PVC rubber liner guy but I don't do many showers. If there is a better method with consistent good results I'm all ears. Thank you
@James-tu6dk
@James-tu6dk Год назад
You're supposed to use reinforcing fabric on all corners are you not?
@pr-tk5cc
@pr-tk5cc 2 года назад
You should of used the aka no break paper material, first apply water proofing material between coats.
@zmscott2507
@zmscott2507 2 года назад
When can you wait 24 hrs first coat, 48hrs second coat, and so on. I wish you had re applied after 4-6 hrs like you said to test it as applied in the field.
@copterdude1
@copterdude1 2 года назад
Thanks for the info...would love to see same test with hydoban
@thatguy8005
@thatguy8005 2 года назад
I used this to seal up the walls of a basement. Doubt I’ll use it for a shower.
@csabi72
@csabi72 Год назад
if you use red guard , the first coat will have to be very thin, it has to grab the mortar first.
@jeffmuehlfelder7468
@jeffmuehlfelder7468 2 года назад
there is a reason that you see people using a roller and rolling on several thin coats - because it works doing it that way - and it fails when you slop it on heavy with a brush. You have been putting it on wrong for a solid 6 years. Its like you are trying to make it fail - go check out star tile, he gets it.
@yeagermcbipper9008
@yeagermcbipper9008 5 месяцев назад
THe fact the the entire bottom failed means you simply didn't put it on properly. Most likely its not cured. You really need to add an a follow up explaining your failure to apply the product properly.
@nicko71
@nicko71 2 года назад
In this box the water was sitting for few hours,in the shower water go flush true the drain ,so I think that's the difference
@williammorris3303
@williammorris3303 Год назад
I don’t really measure but I try to put a nice heavy ish coat evenly on the entire area, then I repeat that 3 times maybe 4 depending
@elainerussell924
@elainerussell924 2 года назад
He has a new hat Mr cool backwards hat !
@YankeeDoodleWentToSlam
@YankeeDoodleWentToSlam 2 года назад
This video gives me anxiety for all my past tile jobs
@julioromero9434
@julioromero9434 2 года назад
Great video....I always knew red guard didn't work
@hermessanchez7955
@hermessanchez7955 2 года назад
You never knew red gaurd didnt work and you still don't. What you know is that it failed in these specific conditions.
@SubieRow
@SubieRow Год назад
Note to self..... Let the concrete cure under normal conditions and it works just fine.
@JohnnyLawrence293
@JohnnyLawrence293 Год назад
why do you even need it on the mortar bed? isn't the walls enough
@1960jogo
@1960jogo Год назад
I got te point but no body leaves water in there shower for that long and also they require to install the pvc membrane 8" high from the floor bottom which it doesn't make sense to me,when the curb entrance is only 4"to 6" high I have neing building costume showers for many years and never have any problem ,that reason why you have leak is becsuse you did not use the required pvc water proof menbrane under the mortar👍
@1coppertop
@1coppertop 7 месяцев назад
Copper custom pan wont leak. But im biased and can make one quickly.
@Jared-Kreate
@Jared-Kreate 2 года назад
It speaks volumes that under those controlled conditions it still failed. I would caution everyone to only use red guard as a crack prevention membrane and never as the waterproofing on the shower pan. I cringe to think of how many showers are eventually failing because of this. The bright side is, more work for us! Lol
@rayspence3677
@rayspence3677 2 года назад
Using a backer board would of been ideal, jusing just the mortar bed caused the red guard to not cure properly taking the moisture out of the red guard. That's why on the Glas it was the way its suppose to be and the mortar bed it flaked off.
@buck-johnson
@buck-johnson 4 месяца назад
The problem is that your box flexes and creates cracking.
@JaySean777
@JaySean777 2 года назад
Can you please do the same simulation for laticrete waterproofing?! Thanks
@atg1338
@atg1338 Год назад
I silicone all my corners and joints...never had a problem
@GGeorge5677
@GGeorge5677 Год назад
I do that as well. No problems as of yet. Fabric mesh change of planes is a good idea also.
@bigbullhorn8443
@bigbullhorn8443 2 года назад
For $140 to do shower walls with any of this stuff freaks me out now I’m about to fiber tape and motar my corners and joints today. I Dont Know what to do after this if anything now. I’m freaking out. My first shower
@Rjneffer
@Rjneffer Год назад
Do I need to prep the concrete floor with red guard or similar just for the standard concrete base floor?
@HousesandCars
@HousesandCars 2 года назад
We should make showers from plexiglass, or maybe fiberglass? 🤔 😄 The green stuff from lowes is the same. It dissolves in water. Junk!
@pukeschannel6882
@pukeschannel6882 2 года назад
Apparently you didn't want to buzz the mfgr....I am sure they would send out a rep. While it is true that mortar will suck moisture from anyplace it can until fully cured (fully cured is much longer than the wait time redgard gives you, by the way), If you do what the spec says, it is pretty rare that you can find a problem.
@carmfully
@carmfully 2 года назад
Wedi board + sealant next? Please
@johnathanphillips8684
@johnathanphillips8684 2 года назад
I'm wondering if the drypak didn't dehydrate the red guard before it had the time to dry "naturally".
@ronnieroxx13
@ronnieroxx13 2 года назад
The fact that it turns back to pink when it gets wet is concerning. I would think that once it is cured it should hold and not break down...to me, turning back to pink means it's breaking down...no bueno!
@fly4fun24
@fly4fun24 Год назад
i noticed when i apply thick coats it cracks always. it is is a transparent coats it dose not. red gard is no good for showers
@ericastier1646
@ericastier1646 5 месяцев назад
Mapei elastoplastic CI product becomes a hard stretchy membrane when dry not this flaky RG.
@C2IT678
@C2IT678 2 месяца назад
I use redgaurd but on walls only and this is why
@Gixxr11
@Gixxr11 Год назад
Do a real test with products you would use in the field. That should be a given
@inmate0054
@inmate0054 Месяц назад
Suppose to silicone corners
@spikeklein270
@spikeklein270 2 года назад
I like this test. Isaac knows already that the mortar should cure for a few days before applying the redguard, but you can't expect the average diyer to know that, because it's not mentioned in the product specs. He also probably knew the layers were a bit too thick, but once again, he followed the product instructions, which is exactly what a diyer should normally do. Illustrates the pitfalls of the product. Thanks again, Isaac!
@tinman1955
@tinman1955 2 года назад
That TDS says concrete must be cured for 28 days.
@Sn0wZer0
@Sn0wZer0 2 года назад
@@tinman1955 Even for Dry pack? It contains cement but isn't concrete in any traditional sense. I can't imagine a customer being ok with disappearing for a month between putting in the bed and doing the next steps.
@fyt54321
@fyt54321 Год назад
@@Sn0wZer0 "disappearing for a month between putting in the bed and doing the next" ... use Redgard on the walls with full day curing. And use a PVC pan liner over day old bed. Using Redgard on the shower pan itself makes little sense, takes way too long to do carefully and properly, and still would leave me worrying. A $50 pvc liner makes so much more sense for the pan. Quick and easy and total confidence.
@miguelquiroga553
@miguelquiroga553 Год назад
The mortar bed need to cure and add water every other day to prevent the blister
@hadikhaled9025
@hadikhaled9025 Год назад
​​@fartpooboxohyeah8611oes like this 1. Mortar preslope 2. Pan liner 3. Mortar 4. Thinset tile
@jaywalters1248
@jaywalters1248 2 года назад
I have been using aqua defense for over 10 years. I noticed those blisters, turns out it was because I did not let the mortar bed cure for three days, Hydro band states you need to cure for three days so all moisture is out. Plus I use fiberglass membrane in the whole base and corners to insure no leaks. Also we pay extra attention to the drain connection.
@BADMONTESS
@BADMONTESS Год назад
Mapei rep told me to allow the mortar bed to dry 1 day for every inch thick the mud bed is. I will accelerate that by putting a fan or heater to blow on there. I too use Aqua Defense exclusively, plus like you I lay EIFS fiberglass membrane the following over the whole mud bed and, flash it up the wall and hold in place with thin-set with a combined water & Anti-hydro solution in the thinset for additional waterproof insurance. A lot of installers know nothing of anti-hydro, to me its liquid insurance. The day before I mud, I even flash the mesh up the wall about 4 inches and onto the floor a couple inches as insurance for perimeter crack protection under the pan, and then paint the aqua defense over the detri-mat and up the wall over mesh. Float bed, let cure a bit, add more mesh over whole pan, let it cure out and then aquadefense as needed. Do you do the drain flange assembly correct too with the membrane. Remove mud at an angle, expose flange, remove drain and collar. Paint aqua defense over angled cut away and bond the AD to the lower flange. Let dry, reinstall collar, drain, add pebbles to prevent mud from plugging weep holes, then add more drypack to bring up to correct height. Let it dry but put no aqua defense over this dry pack. It acts as a porous drain area for water to get down and out of the weep holes. A lot of people wont go this far, but I do very high end homes and dont want my reputation sullied over short cuts.
@albertvargas8628
@albertvargas8628 Год назад
Redgaurd is not a good product to to use for shower pans even when you use reinforcing fabric at the perimeters and the corners, especially when you are installing tile showers above I story high II waterproofed hundreds of showers in a hospital several story's high , was super careful and thorough and pans failed almost half of the time when water tested! The builders insisted on all American Made products to be used, which I get and applaud,bottom line is RedGaurd sucks as waterproofing membrane and many tile installers I know would agree!Thanks for showing your mockup and results.
@twinenk15
@twinenk15 11 месяцев назад
So, the blisters are from the moisture in mortar bed? Do you ever see the blisters on wall?
@beekeepermariadelgado6806
@beekeepermariadelgado6806 10 месяцев назад
@@twinenk15 from water test
@GGeorge5677
@GGeorge5677 Год назад
Been using nothing but Custom Building Products for past 12 years. I always do a primers coat prior to applying my main 2 coats. When you use a brush, do opposite brush stroke directions for each. This interlocks each coat together. For inside corners and change of planes. I thin-set 6in fabric mesh tape prior to RG. It’s a great idea to make sure the mortar bed and thin-set are dry prior to RG application. Also vacuum up and dust or loose sand particles as well. Best to skin over all screw holes for a even flat surface. Best to do even lite coats, than to cake it on. RG does shrink when drying. So very important to keep even coats everywhere. Check for pin holes prior to tiling is a good idea. Perma Base is my cement board of choice in showers walls. I also use RG uncoupling mat in place of Ditra. I like the fact it has fibers on both sides of the mat. So any movement is isolated by fabric shearing. Rather than cracking tiles or grout. So you get your mechanical bond as well. The mat is 100% waterproof as well. Great for doing 0 entry shower to main floor transitions. Love the videos you do. Thx
@danielsimonleyva810
@danielsimonleyva810 5 месяцев назад
what primer do you use ?
@burdenfire
@burdenfire 4 месяца назад
@@danielsimonleyva810 I believe he's refering to using redgard as a primer. 4 parts water to 1 part redgard.
@vernbolstad3956
@vernbolstad3956 2 года назад
In my humble opinion, perhaps it has something to do with the mortar-product connection/reactions. A good control test would be to paint the boxes with each product without the grout bed. Then move to the the same controls with the mortar bed? I know have lots of time on your hands to product test everything 😂
@chadlittell5326
@chadlittell5326 2 года назад
Great video! If your're using Redguard I always use mesh tape in the corners. Preferably set in thinset. Also I skim coat my shower sub pan with thinnest after pan has dried. You can also meshtape and Redguard. I think that your coats were just too thick. I apply with a 3/8 roller and a brush in the corners. Run a fan in between coats. Let dry 1-3 days before a water test. Also mesh over your drain to build up your pan liner. Thank you, Chad
@davidreish211
@davidreish211 2 года назад
Motor beds require 72hrs of cure time, plus red guard primer. Also if you want to do redguard you need to use a milage Guage. The ideal milage is 15mils per coat and not to exceed 30mils per coat. And requires minimum of 30mils to be water proofed, and 60 mils for a steam shower. Also after your primer coat you need to lightly sand to remove any exposed sand left and wipe down with a damp sponge. And lastly you most use the proper gaging fabric in the corner, not mesh drywall tape.
@TileCoach
@TileCoach 2 года назад
Thank you for the information, may I ask where you got it? You would think they would put it in their technical data sheet (TDS) or the instructions on the bucket. I watched their video too and it didn’t have the information you provided either. But what you said makes a lot of sense.
@davidreish211
@davidreish211 2 года назад
@@TileCoach if you contact redguard there is a separate installation instructions that you can get they used to put all that info on the 3.5 gal bucket. To make redguard primer, you mix 4 parts water to one part redguard, got that from the redguard help line.
@michaellee695
@michaellee695 2 года назад
@@TileCoach This is from Redgard TDS-104. Prime all surfaces to receive RedGard® with properly applied manufacturer's sealer or with a primer coat of RedGard®, consisting of 1 part RedGard®, diluted with 4 parts clean, cool water. In a clean pail, mix at low speed to obtain a lump-free solution. For substrates exhibiting high absorption rates - apply the diluted mixture of water and RedGard® (4-1) using a clean, fine head broom to scrub in the primer solution. Keep the surface of the substrate wet for at least 15 minutes during application to ensure adequate and even distribution of primer coat. Apply the diluted RedGard® primer coat to the floor at a rate of 300 ft/gallon (7.5 M/L). Allow 1st coat/application time to dry before floor patch or other flooring material applications begin. For tile installations bonding directly to the substrate; strongly recommended to apply at least one full coat of "undiluted" RedGard® to the "dry" primed area and allow to dry completely before tile installation work is to begin.
@foggymtnbreakdown
@foggymtnbreakdown 2 года назад
I just did a test. I applied Mapei's Aqua Defense (from Lowe's) to a new piece of Permabase cement board. I used the new version of Aqua Defense that has the light green color. I used a brush. I did not measure the thickness of the coating. I let it dry in my basement overnight. I have to admit, that my basement is cooler than the rest of the house. I did have a fan blowing on it the whole time to help it dry. The next day, about midday, I took it outside and let it cure some more in the open air. Then I put a little bit of water on it. I removed the water with a paper towel, and the light green color had gotten even lighter, as though the water had gotten into it. I walked away, when I came back, I could not tell where the water had been. The coating had dried out again. I don't know what to make of this, but apparently Red Guard and Aqua Defense have a similar color change when exposed to water and the color change (in the case of Aqua Defense) is reversible. Maybe they both need longer cure times, but who wants to wait forever?
@ryancoulter7681
@ryancoulter7681 2 года назад
The blisters on the mud are do to moisture still in the mud as I have had that problem before. I've even had issues with hydroban doing the same thing. Realistically it takes at least 3 days for a dry pack to completely dry out enough for a liquid membrane. I don't have time for that personally and I'm sure no other professional tile installers do either so that's why I stick to the sheet membrane and foam boards. Quick one day prep and water test the next morning.
@madd7075
@madd7075 2 года назад
Word
@B.r.i.a.n.1
@B.r.i.a.n.1 2 года назад
Agreed. The plexi wouldve slowed drying even more.
@justpassingthrough7989
@justpassingthrough7989 2 года назад
Should've been in the product instructions....
@ryancoulter7681
@ryancoulter7681 2 года назад
@@justpassingthrough7989 it is to point as it does say dry substrate but deck mud is difficult to put a specific time on as it is not a modified product and is at the mercy of the temperature and humidity in the air to dry out. I learned the three day rule from my laticrete rep but that was also only for their bag mud that he would say clearly.
@homesteadhaven2010
@homesteadhaven2010 2 года назад
Doesn't a real life scenario the moisture would go down through the subfloor not up. To do this test really it should be a wooded box just like a shower stall. Not a plastic box that doesn't let the moisture from the mud to dry.
@mrgaddafi6291
@mrgaddafi6291 2 года назад
I think the plexiglass is the problem no suction and impossible to get an even coat Trim the sides with cement board And tape the traditional way and then red guard 👍
@riverdog8796
@riverdog8796 Год назад
How can test be accurate without fabric in corners? Your redguard bubbled but leaked in the corners. No fabric which is required for substrate changes
@RealFifty
@RealFifty 2 года назад
48 to 72 hours for morterbed to cure
@MrPluckie
@MrPluckie 2 года назад
something seems off about this. whenever i work with redguard on mud beds do a base coat kind like priming with a much thinner watered down redguard then the regular layers. i also do mesh tapes in all the joints beforehand pressed down with thinset.
@francisjutras3651
@francisjutras3651 2 года назад
Yup first coat need to be really thin and mixed with water like it said on Spec sheet. I think it is better to put 3 or even 4 thin coat than only 2 Thick coat. The Product retraction seem to be the problem.. top of the coat dry and pull on herself.. and crack ? (Maybe) I've tried redguard on my bathroom. 4 layers to put recommended quantity. I applied it with a Little roller and a Brush on corner. I also put Mesh on corners and junction between walls and flange of the shower pan (no Mortar bed so no redguard on the Floor). I got a Nice red uniform finish!!. No crack at all! Dont know how it Will be over the time but .. so far, so good! Thanks for your precious videos!! IT really help and give a chance to learn more about the fine art of tiling and.. surely avoid big mistake! I really appreciate your channel!
@toph2o676
@toph2o676 2 года назад
Isaac I've set Tile & Stone here in Las Vegas for 37 years. I've been on massive projects where there is 5,000 to 6000 rooms per building with swimming pools steam rooms Etc. Never once have I ever seen redgard used in any of those applications or on any detail sheets from the architectural or Engineers on these projects. We've always used laticrete 9235 I never see anybody using that stuff anywhere on any residential or commercial jobs in the last 10 years. It's so easy for contractors to show up on a job and roll that red crap all over place, then walk away and then two years down the line they have serious problems. My father always taught me to do everything to the best of your ability and stand behind everything you do. I see that in you and who need to be commended for your efforts to show and teach people. We need more people in the field like you today because there's a massive movement in the other direction and construction nowadays. No one gives a damn anymore get in get it done get your money move on. I think you should be a US senator instead of a tile contractor haha anyways dude Rock on
@kenthomas2252
@kenthomas2252 2 года назад
Perfect- a senator who is honest and responsive. You don't expect that from a shower builder. Good call. 👍
@michaelhartman851
@michaelhartman851 2 года назад
Oh I forgot to address the cracks in the corners, when it does that it means you're over applying it, putting more over it makes it worse, it's better to cut out the cracks and reapply in thinner coats. Also redgard is generally applied over cement or backers so applying in on plastic is an issue the underlying moisture gets trapped and never allows it to actually cure.
@RealFifty
@RealFifty 2 года назад
Agreed plus your are supposed to wait 48 to 72 hours for the morter to cure. I think he might have dropped the ball on this but I'm sure he will redeem himself
@daveyelmer3222
@daveyelmer3222 2 года назад
Ahh, that makes sense. I was dumbfounded to figure that RedGuard could be THAT weak ! Been in use a while.
@dieterrosswag933
@dieterrosswag933 2 года назад
Over applying it on the corners makes it crack?? Can someone confirm this?
@holdernewtshesrearin5471
@holdernewtshesrearin5471 2 года назад
@@dieterrosswag933 - yep. Apply with a brush and use mesh cloth/tape at seams, corners and drains. Build up 6 to 9 light layers on the floor to 20-30 mil thick tapering up the walls so no hard transition from thick to thin and 2 or 3 coats on walls with ample dry time between. Ive been using a long time and never had a failure.
@dieterrosswag933
@dieterrosswag933 2 года назад
@@holdernewtshesrearin5471 Thank you. I use tapes between the floor and walls (the joints). It's highly necessary in Germany since the screed is "floating" over a ~5cm foam all over the house, for noise and temperature isolation and also no connected with the wall Anyway, i didn't know that the "liquid isolation" can break in the corners in short period when there are different thickness in close time application.
@HarryHarshaw
@HarryHarshaw Год назад
The chemistry is the reason. Water re emulsified the bonds.
@joshuawilson1989
@joshuawilson1989 2 года назад
They say that's from putting it too thick and not letting dry fully before next coat
@Charles-uc3hb
@Charles-uc3hb 2 года назад
Yup
@IceCreamJones42069
@IceCreamJones42069 2 года назад
Did you not watch the video ? He let every coat fully dry.
@saljablo2767
@saljablo2767 2 года назад
He put it on way too thick
@jeremycovelli
@jeremycovelli 2 года назад
@@IceCreamJones42069 doesn't matter, if it's too thick it will crack, the drying is what causes the cracking
@joshuawilson1989
@joshuawilson1989 2 года назад
Older guys I know say coat it real thin, give it a little extra dry time.. Just what I've heard I use hydro ban . and if you do it right no problems....
@db4d122
@db4d122 2 года назад
Build your box out of cement board or denshield and reinforce the changes of plane with fabric tape, give it a fair test nobody builds a shower out of plexiglass coach
@Awesomepotamus
@Awesomepotamus 2 года назад
this is what I was thinking 'red guard isn't made to be applied to plexiglass. And 24hrs isn't enough time to let the mud pan set properly.
@mikeh5908
@mikeh5908 2 года назад
Aint nobody doing drypack anymore either. Lol. 10 yrs ago maybe. Times have changed.
@samfredo8140
@samfredo8140 2 года назад
Feed back from the manufacture may shine some light on the issue. Show them this video and ask for their feedback. Great video, test. Keep up the good work and stay independent and unbiased.
@psmola101
@psmola101 Год назад
First, thanks for all the informative and entertaining videos you produce. Lots of info for pros and DIYers. This video is a very interesting experiment and a great example of what can go wrong when some of the finer installation details are not adhered to. In the Redgard instructions Section 5, General Surface Prep, it states that porous surfaces must be properly cured and dry according to the manufacturer's instructions and then primed with a 1:4 product dilution. This thin coat will penetrate the pores of the substrate more effectively, thus sealing the surface and ensuring bonding of subsequent coats. As far as curing time of the dry pack mortar bed, Quikrete instructions for Deck Mud and Sand Topping Mix both state curing time is 5 to 7 days depending on ambient temperature. For many DIYers the curing time and extra priming step are typically not a big deal, but I imagine that these times and extra steps are not favorable to pros who need to get in and complete the job quickly in order to remain competitive and profitable - seems that this is not a good way to go for pros. As far as liquid waterproof membranes go, more expensive products like Laticrete Hydro Ban are more reliable with less steps and less concern for precise wet and dry film thickness. These more expensive products appear to be targeted to professional installers where products which reduce installation labor time are more favorable than less expensive material which require more effort. Anyway, thanks again for all the videos and keep them coming!
@bcarlisle2000
@bcarlisle2000 Год назад
WOW! Very helpful! I will let mine dry 7 days, and dilute 1:4 for an extra primer step. Thank you for your input!
@DavidKlausa
@DavidKlausa 7 месяцев назад
For the dilution, is that 1 part Redgard to 4 parts water?
@psmola101
@psmola101 7 месяцев назад
@@DavidKlausa Yes, that is correct.
@dansch19
@dansch19 2 года назад
Bubbling in painted materials is almost always moisture in the substrate. That pan can't be dry enough in 1 day and having it enclosed on all 4 sides by a barrier just exacerbates that. I assume you knew that already which is why you do sheet membranes on fresh pans even with liquid waterproofers. .
@henryjames924
@henryjames924 Год назад
1. I believe you should use a roller for an even spread 2. When applying the 2nd coat, it must be applied perpendicular to the 1st coat. Note: if the curing takes longer than 12 hours, something is wrong. And the glass can flex - not sure is the cracking occurred from this or the way you applied the actual product…
@Jeff-qq4zo
@Jeff-qq4zo Год назад
Also mesh backing should be applied over a calking in the corners
@beekeepermariadelgado6806
@beekeepermariadelgado6806 10 месяцев назад
He was following manufacturers instructions. If he would have deviated from instructions then they would cry “foul” and come up with excuses to tear up his test results. He is using their own info to prove test.
@jesseg.1673
@jesseg.1673 2 года назад
I love your videos. You are honest. If you make a mistake, you don't hide it. We all benefit from your experiences. I will continue to watch and I'm going to subscribe. I recently did a shower with cement board (I forget the product's name). After I installed that, I used Maepi "AquaDefense" to waterproof it. BUT, i applied a fibrous membrane to stick the fibrous membrane to the cement board. Afterwards, I applied an additional two coats of the waterproofing. The result wasn't the flattest surfaces, especially in the corners and the threshold, but I'm hoping what I did will result in a shower that will last without leaking. Also I used a flexible shower pan instead of just the dry pack and waterproofing.
@benspens
@benspens Год назад
FIRST, I love you work. I have learned a lot from your videos and will continue watching and learning. BUT...both redgard videos you have were still not done correctly. You ALWAYS add fiber tape to the corners and the transitions between walls/floor....same with ANY brand of waterproofing membrane...schluter, guru, etc. You have to have that anti-fracture membrane...in drywall work as well.
@rodilloz
@rodilloz 2 года назад
Hello anybody has an answer for this...does they Kerdi drain has to be flush to the tray hole edge..I'm dry fitting everything but that abs drains sits a little lower than they tray..is that normal
@TR4Ajim
@TR4Ajim 2 года назад
What I don’t understand is with so many issues with building water proof pans out of various separate components, why aren’t pre-made one piece custom waterproof shower pans, (like offered by KBRS and WEDI), used more? I would love to see Tile Coach do a side-by-side comparison, in time and material, of a component pan system (like Schulter), and a one piece custom pan (like KBRS).
@davidreish211
@davidreish211 2 года назад
I love kbrs pan. Been using them for 9 years
@howtodoitdude1662
@howtodoitdude1662 2 года назад
Pre-made pans is the best solution. Tiles in any wet environment will always fail sooner or later.
@Karl-by6ub
@Karl-by6ub 9 месяцев назад
Maybe it needs 10 to 20 coats. Look like Red Guard is Crap 💩 😐. I stopped using that Crap years ago. It's overpriced, and it doesn't work.
@southern151redneck
@southern151redneck 2 года назад
Damn this is some shady product advertisement. You know you're selling mostly to gullible DIY'ers. So you bash a product but they'll never notice the subtle beginning. 24 hour cure time is just not enough cure time for a mud bed. That's just foolishness. Hopefully a DIY'er will do a little more digging on mud beds and understand that concrete products take multiple days to really cure and heat helps this process but heat can also cause cracking so keep moisture... it's a process. Mud beds and concrete are a process. It's not just a set it and go kinda thing. that's why all these houses are falling into their footprint. lol pour on monday frame it on tuesday! NOOOOO. Let the mud bed cure for a good 3 or 4 days with good ventilation before you put on a membrane!
@brianarner2054
@brianarner2054 Год назад
Hi coach there are too many videos of shower failures. , People should avoid all the possible problems and call a professional to float cement over studs using 2.5 lath and 1.5 roofing nails. install Quorloy pan or hot mop. Looks like flex seal could be a better option than kerdi or schluder. Never had a call back in 25 years using old school cement method. My friend is second generation tile setter and that the method they do. One of my former bosses was also a second generation tile man and only used old school method 15 pound felt paper and 2.5 metal lath. You tube has lots of video failures using newer methods and most may have been the installers error. Looks like flex seal would be better than any kerdi or schluder pan especially around the drain. Quorloy shower pans needs special calking around drain. Yes I like hydro ban better than red guard. People think if it's colored it's sealed. By Brian
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