Refitting a School Kitchen EP.1 | Thomas Nagy 

With cables above suspended ceilings we need to remember the 'premature collapse' reg.521.10.202 That ceiling will come down in a fire of a good size, that 'spaghetti' is going to be a deadly hazard to firefighters. I believe any retrospective work should include making safe that spaghetti, quote for it at the outset - even if your just replacing 1 light fitting.

What we usually do in schools is put a small sub-board in the practical rooms so that it is easy to reset the RCB's when needed, and we usually have one key switch (instead of the red button) at the teachers desk to turn on and off all power to the students desks, we found the kids loved to mess with the red button too much and it allows the teacher to only allow the students to use the equipment when they switched it on Also thanks for not cutting the data cables the amount of times I had to re run them because someone wasn't thinking ahead Also my electrician recently replaced a few light fixtures for Led's similar to the ones you put up but they had the ability to click in a small emergency pod in the centre of the panel really neat little panels

With that haircut mate you’ll fit right into the dodgy neighbourhood.

speaking as someone who fits data cabling, just want to say thank you for coiling them up and not just cutting them off 🥳

Hi tom we need a video on that Bosch power station!! Where did you get it? How much did it cost? Is it heavy??

anyone else get triggered by the way he says "contactor"?

As for those LED emergency lights, it's best to run those non-maintained. When running in maintained they would usually stay on 24/7 like the one in the background at 17:11. When the LEDs are running 24/7 they will soon reach their rated lifetime which is usually around 30,000 hours. I'd say LED emergency lights are acceptable for using in non-maintained mode but for maintained, I'd still use the fluorescent ones because they of course have replaceable tubes. When the LED ones reach the end of their life the whole fitting will have to be replaced rather than a simple change of tube.

Nice job that, we do lots of schools, your EM Stop button will need to have a key lock off so the teacher can leave the room locked off when they leave. We usually pull a new sub main to the kitchen and have a local db in the kitchen. Going off track we tend to put T&E in dado trunking as some of the kids like to pull lid off and cut singles with scissors 😑

What about extraction? Could get steamy and smokey in that room?

i installed one of those klick connectors in our dining room for the low hanging light above the table so when we have parties or loads of people around the table gets moved aside and the pendant gets unhooked. the downlighters keep the place lit.

The trunking will be getting removed because all the little darlings will be charging their phones from it.

Is their spare capacity for the additional load, looked like it was only 100amp incomer, didn't see any ct's. Is their existing school kitchen all electric, if it is, you may need an upgrade on the incoming supply.

I miss the flicker😂😂

Mounted the same type of LED panels in Norway as well, love them. You can also mount them in roofs with a tiny housing where you just slide it in.

Suggest you don't show your keys when locking your van. Shifty geezer can make a duplicate just by seeing the dimples etc on the key when you show and turn it. If you doubt me, watch the *LockPickingLawyer* 's channel. If you don't know his channel or another lock picking one, he will scare the crap out of you on how quick locks can be picked or opened by other means.

AT&T(GB) in Brentford stock that Rehau trunking mate, and they're still open to the public, just closed on Saturdays now. Recently fitted a load of it.

Rehau is a 5 min walk from my house. Just might add, their trunking is quality

Good luck with the fire panel Closed protocol adt panel 😂

Why didn't you put a single socket in trunking the it could be right way up

Rehau Profila Compact, we use it all the time and get it no problem from Edmundsons Carlisle. Your branch should be able to source it from another branch in the Edmundsons group. Nice vid, interesting as usual👍

00:00 ooh somebody's been watchin Edgar Wright movies for editing tips 🙂🙂 For the cables I think I would have left them over the grid. The ceiling should be fire rated? plus there's the metal grid to prevent premature collapse? And I think it would be safer. If there was a risk of premature collapse, it would look like sorting that out would be a seperate job. But I'm sitting at a keyboard and not at the job so don't have a clue.

TOM Have a look at the 3w emergency spotlights, I always fit them in grids now, 100000 X neater than bulkheads.

Great video as usual I must admit watching your videos have inspired me to start my own channel for my construction company keep up the good work

No need to use maintenance free connectors before the driver. Connect the flex from the klik box straight into the driver . Much quicker and means 1 less joint plusxsaves on materials. Been doing it for last year or so. As long as the flex is no thicker than 0.75mm which pre made kliks are....then you're sorted mate.

Looked like a 72KVA intake ,a lot of primary schools have that size but not with a home ecomonics room, if its a secondary school seems pretty tight inatke size Use 32a Radials 4.0mm in LFS twin & earth forget rings, have done loads in the london schools, with diversity its down to experience, throw away that on site guide table, extremely unlikey that all hobs / ovens would be on , ventilation never a problem, all the best Tom Also i would consider a seperate board in the intake with i1 main contactor to bring on the board or 2no: 63A 4 pole contactor set up ( subject to design ) and a single stop/start by teachers desk, very rare for independant switches to control each circuit, bit of a waste and overkill in my opinion 4k -5 K value, All the best tom

Would it been easier to put emergency fittings in rather than swap bulkheads

25000€ + VAT here in Germany for the electrical installations but -1500€ for the disposal of dumpster you have thrown your ewaste in. 🤔 Here every contractor has to dispose his own waste otherwise you get a bill from the customer or the other contractor who has hired the the disposal company.

i'd use a multicore YY for the gridswitch/EM stop by the door. feed the gridswitch itself through the em stop button so it breaks the feed to every contactor in one go. also means you only have to pull one cable up to the gridswitch. Also maybe 4mm radials for each station?

www.tradesparky.com/cable-and-management/trunking/perimeter/rehau-733379-end-cap-180x65mm End cap fella

I would install a DB in the room fed via a contactor installed within the incomer section fed 16mm 5 core SWA (depending on loading) abd controlled with a lockable E stop at the teachers desk. This should prevent having all 8 circuits being fed through the same contactor enclosure preventing the danger when working on 1 contactor. Id put a 2A MCB on the auxiliary circuit to protect it. Like someone mentioned before id go for a 4mm T+E LSF radial to each station and keep 1 row on the same phase to prevent 400V between the 2 work stations.. although this will leave 1 phase with a higher load should they have a full class. I couldnt properly see but the 250A main switch is usually a switch disconector BSEN60947-3 so the 250A rating is the maximum current it can break when switching? Unless its a BSEN60947-2 which is an MCCB so it should have a dial underneath the switch at 0.8 - 1 x? Usually the incomer fuses are at 200A for a 250A switch disconnector so will probably need to check first. Ideally probably could have done with a load test when the school is open to check what its current load demand is before installing. Hope it helps and good luck

Does Eaton have a monopoly on schools or something? Every school I've ever worked in has a Eaton or MEM board fitted.

Regarding the contactors, not sure what the security is on the classrooms but do you plan on putting in a master key isolator for the workstations? I.e "one key to rule them all" to prohibit some miscreant turning things on whilst staff are unaware?

Why not put 2 single sockets in instead of 1 vertical double socket. Makes a neater job.

That's Rehau trunking! Good stuff and lot cheaper than Marshall tuflex etc. Also bottom lid is part of the carcass so negates need to fit bottom lid as per other makes!! Saves time as a result. We used to get ours from Bemco wholesalers

Total guess £5000

Are you still doing certain jobs in occupied homes for example eicr etc in this pandemic? How would you ensure social distancing?

Endcap details : rehau 733379 www.tradesparky.com/cable-and-management/trunking/perimeter/rehau-733379-end-cap-180x65mm

Great Video. Release the dimensions for the track and perhaps a viewer with fire rated filament can 3D print one for you.

Hi tom I've used that rehau stuff before I got mine through electric centre which Is basically a part of edmundsons

Jesus christ I miss being at work, being furloughed sucks.

Hi mate just a heads up on the fire alarm panel for future, it’s an addressable adt panel so hard to get the sortware for laptop programming unless you know someone who works/used to work for adt. If you come across faults with devices etc you would need to get adt to programme the heads with address etc which they charge a pretty penny to do. Hope this is of help mate.

I know we can all see you grafting away on the jobs you choose to portray on you tube, but I must say how impressed I am at the condition in which your tools, (and your whole van for that matter) are kept - being in such mint condition. Has lockdown availed you more time with which to keep them mint and much more organised than your average joe spark? Good show!

I would look for the Part Number mentioned in the technical document: www.rehau.com/download/1137412/cable-management-quick-reference-guide.pdf#page=5 short googling -> www.tradesparky.com/cable-and-management/trunking/perimeter/rehau-288565-end-cap-140x50mm

Damn 40s ago, got here quick.

Here's what you need Thomas! www.tradesparky.com/cable-and-management/trunking/perimeter/rehau-734006-trunking-140x50mmx3m

I'm not a sparky. But I will go £5500 + vat. Quick question yes the feed is only below where your working but would it not be easier to run a single cable from the feed into the room and in to a dedicated fuse box. This way the isolator and other cables won't have to be run back and forth. Also allowing for if there is a problem it won't trip the whole panel effecting other classrooms, Can a single cable take that much power?

32A ring? As opposed to running 2x2.5mm cable, why not just run 1x 4mm@32A?

them emergancy lights look dodgy asf, i dont like cables that look like that, you could pull that straght out, no clamps or anything, i tend to tie the cable in a knot so its impossable to pull out.

I would say somwhere 3,5k - 4,5k + VAT

Good video here, Tom and am looking forward to part two. (Don't think I heard you cuss once!)

I’m very surprised in this day and age that they’d still entertain putting halogen hobs in schools with the risk of being burnt once they’ve done their lesson and the rings are cooling still, surely they’d have specified induction hobs 😳 I’d be running in a sub main to the panel board to the left of the DB downstairs and a DB in the classroom as I’m lazy and couldn’t be bothered running up and down the stairs with all the controls cables and radials to the classroom 😂

I would add one red push button per side - so the students can cut the power to the systems as well when something goes majorly wrong. I would use one red button for the teach(with a key) and one cable per "trunk" and also two power feed down to the fuse box, each 32A. It should be plenty. Don't overengineer that stuff.

Rehau trunking: www.tradesparky.com/cable-and-management/trunking/perimeter/rehau-733349-data-trunking-base-180x65mm ?

Hello sparkys sorry a plumber / pool engineer here barging in but a hug Tom fan. A puzzle I am trying to solve, I need help to run a hammerhead pool vac, usually it runs off of a 12v car battery but I need to use it for a prolonged period of time. Its power lead is long enough to have it on a mains socket well away from a pool. Any help would be appreciated.

Would go for roughly about 6k, maybe suggest some extraction on top of that as well.

As for the cabling on the ceiling grid, I'd mention it to the client.

Forget rings just do 4.0mm radials

Tradesparky.com for your end caps?

Hi Tom Try Tradesparky.com for the trunking end cap they show stock of the Rehau profila compact accessories

Thomas Nagy's Price It Right 👍🏻

I hope you marked the ends of the data cables with their original socket IDs. As someone who works in IT, this is one of the most frustrating things when data cabling is cut or disconnected but not marked as to where it previously went.

Two fire fighters died because the cables weren't tied up or in baskets. The cables fell down when the ceiling collapsed and the ffs got tangled up in the resulting bunch of bastards. Please, all you sparks out there, tie the cables up or put them in baskets.

I don't know..but i would try to use that normal outside light ..as extra in that room where you placed all those led lights.. Because you can see that there is outside light coming to that roof..and it would be bad if you didn't use it.,..but ofc it is not up to you but up to customer..

here are the end caps www.tradesparky.com/cable-and-management/trunking/perimeter/rehau-733379-end-cap-180x65mm

That trunking is made by "OBO", so maybe try looking in that direction?

AC in every tool? Damn wish my school would have had that!

End Cap - www.tradesparky.com/cable-and-management/trunking/perimeter/rehau-733379-end-cap-180x65mm

Tom all i can say is enjoy working on that fire alarm panel. Its a closed protocol bag of shit :')

Now you have had the Bosch power tools for a while what is your opinion on them and how well did you get on with your Milwaukee stuff before you switched ?

Rehau was the best dado to fit ever so handy and cheap enough but they have stopped manufacturing, we had to switch to MK dado

T8s are what were in the ceiling lights and the fluorescent emergency lights use T5 tubes

£150

Arent those rooms cold as fuck with that much space above the sealing?

hey man off topic but what laser level do you use and whats the video you uploaded showing it?

4500 to 6000 GBP

I’d say for all in about 11k inc vat

How you are going to do that job you have priced for is exactly how I would had thought to do it, spot on. I estimate the job would be roughly £5,500 plus VAT. I wouldn't do it any different to how you explained. What a great job. What light panels are they I do recognise those, only thing to be careful of is how thin they are, iv known some to sag in the middle over time. Do they come pre flexed aswel? Only thing I would probably do differently is that I would had wired the flex directly from the klick into the driver. That way the only connections are at the driver and at the klick plug. These are great in commercial premises where isolating a circuit isnt possible, you can just unplug the fitting for maintenance purposes. Not alot that can be done with the cabling from the klick boxes though. Sometimes you got to be careful you dont price yourself out of the work.

Does that Bosch Powerbrick put out a "real sinus"? For the money you could get a decent USV, but i guess the lipo cells in there are the expensive stuff. (edit: couldnt find anything about the waveform in the datasheet/manual)

In Australia it is againts the regs (Illegal) to tie cables or anything to floating ceiling hangers, you have to mount Cat Wires across the roof void and tie everything to those

Anyone hate the fact the English man is saying zip tie not cable tie?

My 10p's worth, what my gut woul tell me in 2011 - no research, just pulled it from the sky. . £7.5K not including appliances. 50A 8way TPN sub board in the classroom room in 10mm SWA , 8 contactors in yy multi to switch panel, 30A 6mm radial @ 2x twin switched S/Os to each workstation, plug-in hob and oven. 9 RCBOs to include a teacher's desk supply. Extra £ 850 to up-rate to 80A on 25mm SWA with 100A S/F if no diversity permitted - assuming main supply has capacity and bus bars etc for S/F. It's going to get hot, steamy and wet in there - up to 24kW of heat and possibly 16 pans of boiling cabbage. Offer a free 4" toilet fan venting into the ceiling void :-p

Did u move from Hungary to the UK or u were born there ?

I work in a college with the same trunking. Weve found the easiest place to get hold of spares etc is tradesparky.com do every thing you need for it.

That dado trunking looks very similar to Schneider dado let me know if it is but certainly looks the same.

But Clive sent me. He didn't say to say that.

Will you be keeping all circuits in the room on the same phase so there isn’t a potential of 400v between work stations?

Great video Tom. Something to watch during this lockdown!!! Looks like one of them jobs that leads to more work the access control stuff looks interesting.

What's the best way to become families with installing/ maintaining fire alarms? I don't have any experience with them but it's always been something I've wanted to get into.

The price is around £4-7K

I recently installed some very similar 2'x4' LED fixtures in an elementary school here in the US. Interesting to see that y'all aren't required to safety wire the fixtures to the ceiling with steel wire, and can just lay them in the grid. In my state it's required that each fixture have a minimum of two safety wires to hold the fixtures in case the ceiling grid collapses. I think it's kind of silly with the light weight LED fixtures, but it makes plenty of sense for the older florescence fixtures. Those things are heavy!

Bet those Eaton RCBO’s won’t be cheap? LSF cable as it’s a school, have to watch the phasing and loads on the ovens too. - run a multicore to the switch put the common through the em stop first sounds like a nice job £1k materials £2.5k labour plus VAT but probably double that for London and lockdown work

Pricing a commercial job as someone who isn't quite used to thinking in those terms is quite difficult, and the actual price is probably several times higher than I initially expected, but still a very fair price (just outside of what I'm used to). As my initial hunch was around 2 grand, a better price would probably be somewhere in the ₤10,000 to ₤20,000 range.

Use 24vdc contactors, only one control cable for grid switches eg. ölflex 12x0.75

Toms gotta wire 8 contactors. 😂

Are they not having extractor hoods?

at 70 GBP an hour I'd guess about 1.5-2k for labour and I have no idea about electrical pieces but probably in excess of 1000? So like 3.5K?

Sounds good, We would put a local DB in the room with a shunt trip main switch so when the EM buttons are pressed it kills the whole DB, you could put a splitter box on that and have the contractors in there, always found this is quicker and uses less T&E and less labour having longer cable pulls! Also have you priced for LSF cable with it being a school/Public building ?

If possible could you do a how to series? I'm a bms electrical apprentice. So as you can guess I dont do anything involving lightning systems, Or fire alarm. Or perhaps explain the basics as you would if you were teaching someone. Awesome video by the way.

I use to work for the manufacturer of that trunking. REHAU. I’ve actually still got lengths of that trunking with the lid. REXEL supply this if you have an account with them?

Merlin Trunking Accessories Stop End 170 x 50mm tool station