David Robinson won his 1st championship as second option to Tim Duncan, that happens to be one of the 7 best guys to ever lace a basketball. In the second one he was the third or fourth option. You can't use his 2 titles as a argument to say he's better than Jokic. Above joker in the all time centers list just Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bill Russel, Shaq, Wilt and Kareem
-- David Robinson drove the bus until...Ducan,the greatest PF, showed up and was like: "Excuse me, you're in my seat." DRob: "My bad. Just keeping it warm for ya, buddy." Plus Robinson was already 32/33 when he won that 1st chip. Jokic will surpass DRob in one night (with his 1st chip).
He's a different kind of player in a different era. Russ was the greatest competitor, Shaq and Wilt the most physically imposing, Kareem best of his generation and overall. Jokic, keep it up and we'll reevaluate in 5 years.
If not for guys named Michael Jordan, Magic and Hakeem... David Robinson would have won 5 MVP's from from 1990-1996. Go back and look at those Spurs rosters. Mr Robinson was tough
4:05 - Jokic and Steph Curry are in a similar situation. Their offensive output is amazing... however, the players ahead of them in the "All Time ranks" were at the top in both offensive and defensive categories. It's a two-sided game and Jokic is a solid defender... Steph is a pretty solid defender (help defense)...but Wilt/Russell/Shaq/Hakeem/Kobe/MJ/Duncan etc were All Defense as well as top level scorers
The GOAT centers - in no particular order - are Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem.. and Moses Malone! Moses is one of the most underrated ever… We’re talking about a 3x MVP, won a ring and FMVP in dominant fashion, went to the Finals another time leading a team that had no business being there, he pretty much was a pro from age 19 til he was 39 years old, 8x All-NBA, 2x All-Defensive, twice 2nd in the league in points per game and 5x in the top5, was 6x rebounding champ, 12x NBA All-Star, right now he’s 10th all-time in points and 5th in rebounds!!
Time to update the Shows music at video intro with the limo. For a group that likes to tout their music knowledge, the "All in the family" riff has had its moment.
Titles is by far the most overrated stat in team sports. Basketball is a team sport. If your teammates and coaching staff aren’t elite, than you aren’t winning an NBA title. Horry was on teams that won a lot of titles. He isn’t better than Reggie and Barkley. Bill Russell was on a lot of teams that won won, but Wilt destroyed him head to head. If Wilt was on those Celtic teams instead of Russell, we’d think different of Russell.
He's way more complete as a player than Shaq. Shaq would tell you himself that the Joker is a 7 foot magic Johnson. Top 3 center for now...but he might be rising.
love reggie but he was way off with this take no way would you choose ray allen's career over djokovic's career ray allen isn't even top 20 all time djokovic is top 3 all time in his sport
Federer better in his prime... Who Federar had to face until Djokovic , Nadal and Andy Murray? You all talk non sense, there will need to pass some decades to see new generations and to get a clue how great was this era of tennis that is finishing when Djokovic retires.
Chris Paul is WASHED... Chris Paul is NOT getting Lakers past Denver next year. Golden State needs size...not a 3rd guard under 6"3 older than Steph. .i like miller... STUPID ANALYSIS
I can't stand the arguments that base a players value on how many rings they win, given that there are so many variables that exist outside of a players ability. An excellent player could do everything in their power and then some at the caliber of an all time great and still still lose in the playoffs. Sometimes they may not have a good enough team outside of themselves (for example this is the first year that Jokic has even had a shot of winning a ring and those previous years had nothing to do with him) and sometimes an all time great player could have the team and everything, yet given a large host of variables the other team plays out of their mind, hits two game winning shots, etc and still end up not winning with an excellent team. So many things have to align in order to win a ring, including luck. Sometimes an all time great player, especially in the 80's and 90's were never on one of the major franchise teams, played excellent basketball and for whatever reason ended up with a ring or no rings at all. In the last 20 years all time great players have had the opportunity to hop on excellent teams and potentially get a ring whereas if they hunkered down and stayed with their crappy franchise may not have won one... in both scenarios that player would be an all-time great either way. Basing a players worth on rings alone is lazy. I understand for those people where basketball isn't a huge part of their lives and they don't have time to track down the stats or remember every game and every round of a playoff.. they could simply let the rings and championships determine a great player, but Reggie Miller cares enough about the game and has followed the game long enough and should know better than to let rings dictate a players worth.
And I could understand the argument that Jokic needs to maintain this level of production for another 5 years before he's in the discussion of being one of the best ever (as of now his all around numbers are off the charts and surpass pretty much everyone), but rings should have nothing to do with it if he's producing at a high level in both the regular season and playoffs. As I said... the game is significantly bigger than 1 player. These people talk about the game as though it's a 1 on 1 contest, but there's 11 other players on the team including a coach and then there's a franchise that impacts that as well. It's crazy that this new thing has arisen over the last 20 years to where a foreign born player makes it to the NBA a plays for some crappy hole in the wall team, stays with that team and ends up putting that team on the map. Giannis, Jokic, Dirk, etc.
When talking about the best of the best, the rings are going to split the difference. The NBA record book is an ode to Wilt Chamberlain. Unquestionably he's got the most decorations on his resume. Why is he not the unquestioned greatest player ever? He supposedly averaged 8 blocks a game before it was an official stat... that means his triple double numbers before they started "counting" would probably equal somewhere around 40 per year... YET .... very few suggest he's the greatest. Because when the chips were on the line, he had failings where Russell didn't. I do think some casuals use rings as a cheap tie breaker, but if we have to consider who's the best of the best... it's the tie breaker for the well informed as also.
@@DGF2 I just finished a comment about Wilt. Wilt was obviously great, but he also retired 50 years ago in a league that was only 10 years old when he entered it. You couldn't even earn a living playing in the NBA during that time, so he was not playing against the best of the best. The WNBA of today would destroy the players of those days. So Wilt was great, but he was playing against children. Bill Russell is the most overrated player of all time. There were 8 teams in the 60's when Russel played (varied from 8 teams to 12 teams by the time he retired). Russell wasn't even the best player on his team. People see how many rings he has and therefore deem him this great player. It was such a new game back then and most players couldn't even make a living as pro basketball player back then, so we're talking the bottom of the barrel.
Dan, Im a diehard Mavs and Luka fan. I'd take Jokic in a heartbeat. I was selfishly hoping that Jokic would lose. I wanted the Euros to say screw it. Lets team up like all the AAU players do nowadays.
A month ago NO ONE ON EARTH was saying Jokic was anywhere near the best center of all time. Now folks wanna out him on Mt. Rushmore. It’s an absolute joke.
Ayup, that's your overreactive sports media cycle circa 2023. I think a reasonably measured take is having Jokic somewhere in the 25-30 range all-time.
Media is prisoners of the moment. Jokic needs to get more than 1 before being mentioned in that group. Hes definitely special and the best big man in the modern era.
As a denver fan,i agree with Reggie-except that hes NOWHERE NEAR Shaq. Shaq was amazing-but dependent on other getting him the ball-& others like Kobe taking over down the stretch,cuz he couldnt hit FS or shoot outside the paint. But 1 title doesnt put him ahead of him,Olujuwon,D Robinson,Russel,etc. But hes only 28-in the end-he might be more accomplished than any of them-but he still has much work to do in the future. Hes the best player on earth for now-if we win the title-but thats subject to change in future sessons,& the 1 title means he never has to answer this garbage bout playoff underachievments-when hes never really lost a series he SHOULDVE won-factoring in injuries to Murray,& MPJ,& other lesser rotation guys-Morris,Barton,Dozier-last 2 playoffs. Possible exception is Portland in 2019. But even that series-was this Nugs cores 1st playoff run-Portland was far more playoff experienced,we barely edged them out for the 2 seed,& home court,& we barely lost game 7 in the final seconds...also lost game 3 in Portland in 4OT. So if the Nugs were favored...it was barely favored-as small of margin of underachievment as you could possibly have. Compare that to "Mr 1st round champ" Embied-whos team is 0-6 in getting to the ECF,& has lost multiple series as big favorites-they were supposed to win. But to lap these Alltime greats-1 title,& 2 MVPs is a helluva start-but work is still to be done. He probably needs another ring or 2,another MVP or 2...& an Olympic gold-or at least medal for Serbia-would help also. But tonight would be 1 helluva start.
My all-time team : Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Bird, Joker. Could you imagine the insane passes that would be flinging around the court with that team? It would just be insane. Insane. I'll say it again ..... insane.
Near 12:58 Dan almost said "3 stooges" instead of the more politic "3 stars"! :) (in referring to the Russell Westbrook addition). Reggie either was too polite or didn't pick up on it.
Dan Patrick and his minions are crazy people. How can compare Novak to Drew Breese? Or even with Ray Allen? Omg. Best tenis player who at 36 years old is still winning with some people who played team sport and wasnt even top players in that sport. American bs at it finest. Novak should be compared to Woods, to Jack, to Sampras, Serena, etc single sport people not team sport people. Novak depends on himself every match plus coaching is prohibited in tennis
Talking about "getting caught up in the moment" at the same time getting caught up with the 'heat hype'. East is just full of players throwing their game.
If or when Jokić wins this championship, he’s already passed David Robinson. Everybody knows that Robinson was a #2 to Duncan on those 99 and 03 title teams. Robinson as an unquestioned #1 only got as far as the WCF. Jokic already has 1 more MVP than DRob. With this title he’s already in the top 10 and probably top 6 behind Kareem, Shaquille, Russell, Wilt and Hakeem.
Was Reggie the first player to go back behind the 3 point line to make a 3 pointer? From inside the arc to step back out? If not then who do you think?
Nowhere near Shaq? Shaq couldn't do what Jokic is doing with the skillset that Jokic has. Shaq is the most dominate center in the paint, but he isn't anywhere near the most skillful, or the best Center.
@@saiwaqa2573 I gotta give shaq credit for the rings though, he earned those. If I compare overall careers I give the nod to shaq. Jokic still working on his though.
@@shedflips To say that jokic needs more mvps man didn't make sense to me. Are we also forgetting that shaq won rings with players considered the greatest to play the game? I love penny, but he isn't on their level. But Kobe, and then wade who are considered the 2 greatest shooting guards after MJ thats a different level of talent. While Jokic has murray, murray isn't on their level. I think its just refusing to acknowledge what jokic is doing.
@@saiwaqa2573 I see what he’s doing, I just have the opinion that if he never played another game shaq would have the better career. Im comparing what I presume is half of one guys career to the full career of an all time great. Have a little patience.
What kind of a poll question is this? I don't quite follow. Of course you would take the Djokovic career. It's an individual sport but Brees isn't a very good comparison. The better comparison would be Djokovic or someone who is considered among the best of their sport like Magic Johnson. Someone who won alot and is considered Top 5 or so in their sport. Djokovic is top 3 tennis players of all time. He has won multiple times on all surfaces. Competed against other all time greats. Selling Djokovic short. I would go Djokovic vs. Jerry Rice.
Reg! Water polo players remain above water by kicking. In the olden days, they'd practice by holding a car tire above their heads. In deep water, of course. But I don't think Joker's passing has anything to do with that. He'd probably have been a great passer in hockey, too.
When ranking centers, Wilt, Russell, and Kareem are in their own separate category at the top, and may never be touched. Underneath them are Hakeem and Shaq. I would place Jokic in the third tier with Moses Malone, David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing.
To be fair I respect Bill Russell but he wouldn't be a center now at 6'8 . I also would take Joker at this point over Ewing but I agree, he's in same league and that's saying something..Ewing and Robinson were great players . I also have Robinson over Ewing. Wily, Kareem and Shaq are my true C tier 1 and Russell. I'd also take Dream over Joker Ewing Robinson. ✌️
David Robinson and Ewing ain’t messing with Moses Malone! C’mon now. And not even Jokic RIGHT NOW, for that matter. I swear, Moses is one of the most underrated ever… We’re talking about a 3x MVP, won a ring and FMVP in dominant fashion, went to the Finals another time leading a team that had no business being there, he pretty much was a pro from age 19 til he was 39 years old, 8x All-NBA, 2x All-Defensive, twice 2nd in the league in points per game and 5x in the top5, was 6x rebounding champ, 12x NBA All-Star, right now he’s 10th all-time in points and 5th in rebounds!!! Y’all can talk about peak overall play and such, but Jokic still has ways to go before catching up to someone like Moses, as far as careers go… even if he’ll definitely surpass him (IF he keeps it up).
@@tacotom3492 What?! Russell was pretty much 6’10’’ BAREFOOTED (and a world class athlete)… and you’re talkin about he wouldn’t be a center in this small ball era and such 😂 Now, imagine Bill with modern shoes, modern training, supplements, medicine, modern equipment and technology…….
David Robinson was a joke and a playoff choker before Tim Duncan came to carry him to a championship.. comparing David Robinson to Jokic who is the greatest offensive center of all time is blasphemous..
@@ct81 you don't know ball pal! You think offense is only about scoring? Offense is about how much points you generate for your team and when you have a guy like Jokic who give you 30 points and 10 assists that's like 50 points every game.
Different league than the past. In terms of skillset, Joker is above ALL OF THEM. In terms of being a pure Center in its historic format he isnt as good as any of them. It is like comparing apples and oranges. Shaq isnt joker and joker isnt shaq. Two different style players. I will say this, in game 1 of the finals Malone placed Joker back in and he closed the game out with 12 points. Against Lakers in game 4 Joker closed the game out with multiple baskets, including a 40 foot sombor shuffle against AD. Outside of possibly Hakeem ive never seen another "center" close out games like he does.
They always try and give MJ credit for things he didn't do. He had those assist because Phil Jackson was pleading with him in the huddle to pass the ball to the open man. If you don't believe me, check NBA film from that series.
Before this year, it was "he's never won a championship". Now it's "he's only won one championship". Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan ....... Never dominated a playoff game, playoff series, playoff run, finals as thoroughly as Joker has. This has been the all-time greatest we've ever seen. Take anything those guys did, and add passing, 3 point shooting, and free throws to it. Think about that for a minute.
@@alibakhsheshi9164 I didn't say they never dominated, I said they never dominated like Joker has. This has been the all-time greatest we've ever seen. ( I can see how what I wrote didn't convey what I was meaning exactly. I will edit it.)
Lol@"nugget horses." Jokic still hasn't won a damn ring yet, technically (and was riding the pine for much of Game 4), so totally agree with the first responder.
@@Vic-Vega To get more of an idea what I'm talking about, search youtube for : JxmyHighroller The Most Unguardable Player In The NBA ( I tried posting a link to it but I think youtube removes comments that have links )
Chris Paull to the Lakers will make for a new 96 Rockets team. A bunch of once great players desperately trying to squeeze out a championship who will get beat by young guys.
