BE MORE TECHNICAL EITHER YOU WANT SQ SPL OR MY FAV LOW END BASS IF YOU HAVE NOT TRY ALL THREE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SOUND OUTPUT YOU WANTED AKA WASTE OF MONEY :D LOL
Even more to consider when building your own speakers! I sometimes mount my crossovers externally for ease of access, never thought of inverted driver mounting. Thanks man!
Vent holes are for increasing of Qms (because an air damping factor goes low). What we see at 4:30 is an increasing of Qms and reduction of Qes in order to keep Qts at a desired level. Of course this needs to keep an amplifier and a crossover (in case of a multi band speaker architecture) output impedance very low (no tube amplifiers, folks), but at the same time this increases a linearity of excursion and group delay (that makes a bass faster and more clear).
Just found your channel about a week ago and I must say I absolutely love it it’s a must to have if you’re like me just entering the technical aspects of signal audio. Peace from Texas! 🤘🏼🤘🏼
Agree with some of the stuff you’re saying about sealed enclosures if you inverter Sub In a world tuned ported box my experiences have been very positive in fact better sounding then it would be mounted the other way of course I’m talking about high powered competition equipment
Always a joy seeing your channel pop up in my feed! I bet inverse mounting would get annoying quickly with my home theater. It'd be cool to look at the backs of the subs but I bet when those 10 to 14 hertz tones start hitting, that chuffing sound would get old quickly.
@@Dakoustics Would that even be feasible given the space of the area and with all of my subs being sealed? Currently the nearest sub to my main listening position is 14 feet. The rear subs are nearly 30 feet away. If that's possible I'd almost wish for it to happen, LOL. Multiple times so I can experience it, then confirm it, then film it.
Awesome video! I like the idea of inverse mounting. Practically, a down firing (up-firing?), extended cabinet (like an H frame) inverse mounted driver would have all the thermal advantages and none of the mechanical disadvantages as discussed.
True but the Sound Quality definition level decreases with reflective/echo wave cancellations and so forth. The best configuration is a non-inverted driver with an extended or large ported enclosure.
I love your vids man! they're really informing, and usefull. I'm still a bit of a noob at speakers and its mechanics, but I am understanding it way more since I've started your vids! Keep up the great work!
Ive had same question to myself. I read and see opinions. And i tried it. Had figure out the correct wiring n phase. But i injured my leads inverted had to do direct leads and after that inverted was no issue just amp adjustment. Im using a huge ported box.
Becausee the video is about mounting position, not displacement. It would matter with the larger subs and by larger I mean displacement of the whole speaker, not just cone displacement. .1 cu ft would only change a typical box alignment by a few percent at best. When the sub takes up 1.5 cubic feet (.5 cubic meters) then displacement would need to be considered. Or if the speaker is a large part of the overall volume of the box. At least that has been my experience. Good day.
Main reason why is I'd say changing enclosure volume by something like 10% barely affects tuning, it's just as common to be out in terms of measurement. Speaker enclosures only change drastically once +/-30% is considered. It would matter for a perfectionist.
Perhaps I'm being pedantic but not accounting for changes like that only compounds the issue of tolerance stacking you mentioned. Regardless, I appreciate you responding to my question.
@@FrozenPaint Would never be a problem unless u have MASSIVE subwoofers but then u would have a MASSIVE enclosure so prob just as well not to mention lol
It would be cool if you did an Isobaric pros and cons video, (cone to cone, cone to magnet and magnet to magnet) And maybe a enclosure over view/pros and cons video (front loaded horn, rear loaded horn, reflex, W bins, scoops)
I could do one for face-to-face right now, but I'd have to think a bit more about magnet to magnet. I've got both types of enclosures, one's a tiny 6th order I made, the others are isobarik loudspeakers magnet to magnet.
My speaker mentor who is teaching me all about horn design said that he was actually using an inverse mounted subwoofer because when you inverse mount it it doesn’t play any of the high frequencies. Even if you have a crossover on it it’s still playing some higher frequencies to a degree so by inverse mounting it all you hear is the low end because all of the high frequencies drop off and you’re never actually listening to the speaker “on axis” which is where the highest frequencies play the loudest
Neat trick for a faux low pass, alot of sound does come from the dust cap, so essentially covering it with a magnet should block alot of the highs. I just use regular mounting for the driver in my bass horn, though it is a folded horn, so the highs mostly get lost inside the enclosure above 200Hz.
I have a zvx in a smaller than recommended box( in a 2.6 box, calls for 3) I inverted the sub to compensate for the box volume.. it sounds worse.. not as loud especially at lower volumes, and more mechanical noise. I’m thinking about just stacking a few 3/4” mdf spacers under the sub, and running it like that. Each one is .05 cubes.. so I wonder if that even matters? Maybe the smaller box benefits my set up running 3k (smart 3 bass)watts to it? Who knows
If it is a ported box it may be easier & give you a better result if you just remove the port tubes & seal the hole . Most subs require significantly less space for sealed enclosures than they do for ported ones. Idk your setup but maybe this will help
Wonder how you could cool a sub with the vehicles Air con, guess you could put a refrigeration coil inside the box and plumb it into the system. I've heard of people tossing the idea around of liquid cooled driver so if you put a cooling coil around the pole but had the liquid cooled by the Air con. Like the "active" intercoolers used on some performance forced induction cars. May have to adjust driver gap tolerances?
Main thing with any "sub ambient" cooling, water will condense on anything cold, which can lead to glues failing, box absorbing water or even mould growing in the box. Good thing with airconditioners, is the air is dried already, so no moisture should collect. Best way of cooling a sub is to keep the air around the coil as cool as possible, by either cooling the magnet, or pumping cool air straight up the pole vent, although blocking the pole vent this way could lead to a missing dust cap
I have ran them both ways could not tell any difference in SQ or SPL both the same if you closed your eyes you could not tell the difference. I currently run a Isobaric clamshell setup in a ported box 2 10s on a 4K amp a lot of people argue about that setup on how there is little gains I beg to differ and probably never heard a setup like this and are simply repeating what they read or what someone has told them because that’s a night and day difference.
If you want to invert your subwoofer, would you have to keep the same dimensions for what the sub needs or can you have the enclosure be smaller? (Ported)
SLIGHTLY smaller, but really depending on the speaker could be 1L smaller or less. Unless its a 2000w 18" ferrite sub, in which case difference is closer to 10L.
Yeah, the volume that was occupied by the woofer is now filled with air, air which will most certainly increase the total volume of air held within the enclosure, However, in real world terms, it's a negligible change that falls well within the tolerances allowed (when designing your ideal enclosure).
Yo its a old video but you have taught me alot on your video.... such a simple video & great information, cheers i will subscribe if your still around 👍🏽
I have a question how do you know if your subwoofer doesn't have enough air flow. Cause I'm have a problem with my subwoofer when I at a high volume the speakers makes a pluk sound. Few people told me not enogh airflow in the box
Hmm, pluk sound is a tad odd, by air flow do you mean the box is choking the vents on the subs, or the box is too small for the sub? It could possibly be amplifier clipping too. Can't imagine a pluk sound other than plucking the strings of a guitar, and not sure how a sub could make that noise.
@@mjl6425 Yeah, or even route grooves into the box, although that might require still having the baffle in one piece to use the centre point, could be done freehand though will likely come out messy, some speakers if they come with removable rubber gaskets they could be flipped around, so for example if they have text on them, instead of cone side it's magnet side
Sir is it okay if I enclose the whole 12" subwoofer ? What will be the size of the speaker box? Any advantages or disadvantages on the quality of sound?
Inverting signal can clear up some of that, rather than pushing in the box...I inverted my subs and inverted the signal at the terminal and no audio able difference than conventionally mounted.. port frequency change due to ratio of box bigger..a lot more cooling capability for coil..
Inverting the system’s signal polarity has nada or zero loss or gain. Inverting a driver decreases Sound Quality definition considerably more than you’d think.
Right on man! Cool vid as always. You speak well and I can easily understand everything you say. Boot :) over here we call the trunk. Just Incase some of your viewers get confused
There is metal particles in dust to that would prematurely wear the sub inverting it, i know this because i have a magnet on my ebike on the speed sensor that i have to wipe off periodically that metal dust is magnetized to it.
You inverse your sub when the enclose is too small because you remove the magnet and basket out of the box 📦 makes the box larger I prefer inverted subs I am testing out my dbs both way problem is I maxed out my meter at 130 so idk 🤷
Just one nitpic at around 530 when talking about the behavior of the waves in the box, either way the waves are interfereing and transferring through the cone regardless of mounting. The only real difference is the magnet and basket diffracting the sound and the motor noise being much more evident. Seems you said that but in a different way I suppose, Great video, mate. How is that horn sounding?? Mabye do a video with a showcase of range and intensity. Have a good day.
Yeah, the magnet diffracting was essentially what I was getting at. The horn had a 200Hz peak with a standard small magnet driver, but when I put in the 812 it was such an obstacle standing waves couldn't form. I've got some in-room sweeps done, though I'm never satisfied due to how drastically levels change throughout the room, It's hard to choose where to consider it a baseline, sounds like +20dB from the middle of the room to the corner. I'm building a dual 18" box now as a comparison, so I might just wait and see how they compare.
@@Dakoustics Will that be the same design but for two 18's? I would love to see something like that, and can't wait for the videos on the comparisons. It is relatable that satisfaction is a seemingly impossible goal to achieve when pursuing sonic excellence, as everything possible affects the sound and not in easily identifiable ways. Your videos are excellent and I love that you don't polish the reality out of them. Thanks for the reply, man. Have a great day.
I did not know that marine woofers are designed to only mount standard. I just purchased a Jeep and I am currently researching marine audio since it already rained 2 times inside the Jeep 😆
Main jist is sealed is better in most cases except for heat, but since ported have the port, heat isn't an issue so mounting it standard should be fine.
In basic terms for efficiency, theres no replacement for displacement, so any added enclosure volume in a competitive environment can be beneficial. Also, added cooling allows for the up and rising one minute tone tests at low frequencies, that added cooling is a must.
@@Dakoustics agreed, I actually have the two fifteens on the passenger side in my b pillar wall inverted, for that little bit extra. No passenger seat in my 93 mercury cougar either, also for the extra volume and cooling. It is too loud for my wife anyway so I don't need it in there. I haven't metered it since this wall was put in, hope to do that this summer, also have upgraded charging just recently. I should do a video, I am just a bit self concious as the project is in aa perpetuaal state of unfinished and is ratther shitty looking, but pretty is not loud and my car isn't pretty. However, it is dangerously loud. Have a good day.
You forgot about thermodynamics... if you use fiberglass insulation inside the sealed box with the driver non-inverse mounted, you can run louder and longer than the inverted woofer because the glass fibers pull heat from the voice coil. You forgot the most important common sense in building a speaker cabinet. Don't use polyfill like the cheaper lower quality companies do. The glass fibers count at heatsink area. The fiberglass artificially increases volume of the box making the woofer play deeper than a hollow empty box
Your ideas are nonsense since your box volume does not remain the same when inverting to woofer, thus all your spl and quality of sound is utter rubbish. Go learn about speaker design.
Speakers are typically, say, ~2L displacement for a 12" subwoofer, so when considering a small sealed box, that being only 7-10% of the volume, the difference is neglegible. I would consider over 20% to be a more important factor.
Come on man, Noone wants to hear you breathe or try to and some of the information could be skipped because it's common sense. The dry, monotone speach doesn't help ya either. Was some good info though and hope ya keep try n to get it out to people.
The difference between the breathing sound being there and not is 19cm and 20cm from the mic. The total recording time is about 30 mins including parts I mess up, so if nothing else goes wrong I call it good enough. Also hard not to be monotone for that half an hour sitting in front of a computer screen. I've got a few more video ideas, I'll work on quality.
@@laceymcreynolds736 oh, yeah, youtube is finding it hard to notify me of comments, if you've got a question just ask here, i'll check back in a day or two, as long as its not too long winded
@@Dakoustics I guess I'm old school consider n had my first loud ride in Ninety-six! Think n bout try n a 15 square solo out on my BD one thousand Rockford. Was think n run n sealed to their specks on their website. My question is though how do you think will do? The enclosure they recommend is barely enough for the sub itself! I have the pictures of specks if could email. I want to hit One Fifty again and low! I want clear low no distortion. Distortion kills! If you check this out could you help me figure out how low that enclosure will go? Hell back when I was really in this was no real tune n the box. Plus sealed shows power and hopefully clear low only a fifteen can do!
@@laceymcreynolds736 Sorry for the late reply, I lost this comment and just found it, funnily enough a few people ask about the L7 15, so it's a tab I keep open, from the looks of it the sub seems ideal for a large sealed box, considering a Qts of over 0.7 its damped well for a big box. 150 out of one of these in a sealed box on 1k sounds unlikely. An option might be to go with a 200L/7 cu ft ported box, could also add 2 ports for the choice of tuning 26Hz or 33Hz, so 2 6" ports, about 16" long per port. This box is a tad bigger than suggested on the page, but a low tuning should keep excursion in check.