eh.... I read them all...before any of this new stuff...and I wasn't a huge fan.. Maybe it was the writing itself. I mean we still had clone palpatines coming back and other weird shit.... an alien becoming admiral in the empire.... leia and hans vacation getting ruined by empire invasion.... again...and again... lol EDIT: Context, I was in the military, and had nothing better to do. Thats why I read them.
Marc has recently been doing new unabridged versions of all the X-Wing novels too, they are so well done and a hundred times better than the horrible old abridged versions. You are quite right, every character he voices is unique. The insectoid alien Gand character is so believable with little added mouth clicking noises that aren't written in the book.
I loved those books and thought Corran Horn was a great character. Did you see the video from the graphics company that had the buried star destroyer taking off from the planet during a space battle?
Zhan's trilogy should have been Episodes 7-9. Absolutely incredible, life changing books for me. The fact that we don't have Mara Jade and Kyle Katarn in live-action form is criminal. Also Rogue Squadron, Tie Fighter, Shadows of the Empire, Galactic Battlegrounds, X Wing Alliance, hell even the Phantom Menace game was great.....such good stuff back then. That was my childhood
All those art books and behind the scenes documentaries for the original trilogy. Back when everything wasn't CGI. It was so cool seeing concept art and practical effects. It blew my mind as a kid to see that the camera moved around a model, not a model by a camera.
This conversation surprised me! I can tell that you guys actually have genuine love for Star Wars that can only come from a true fans heart. I agree too about Ahsoka and loved the character of Baylan Skoll played by the late great Ray Stevenson as many probably know who gave the show the time. I loved how he was a mysterious figure and I'd say one of the most manly of Star Wars characters. I really thought that they did a great job coming up with his character and its a shame that Ray Stevenson passed away and we won't see him reprise the role.
The Timothy Zahn trilogy was great. At least in HS. Also, the strategy guide for the 90’s pc game “X-wing had a short story/preface. I believe it was written by Timothy Zahn. IMO the Zahn Heir to the Empire was the sequels that should have been made.
Other than the original trilogy itself (which I watch on the bonus discs from the 2006 Limited Editions DVDs), my favorite Star Wars things would be (1) the vector-graphics arcade game that came out in the early '80s, where you had to blow up the Death Star; and (2) the film Rogue One.
Dark Saber was a good story. But basically it was just the primary weapon of a Death Star, without the station around it. Thus it looked the hilt of a giant light saber in space.
I have an Empire Strikes Back lunchbox that I use to store a collection of movie tickets. Some 600 of them I think, though I get to see maybe 2 movies a year now thanks to Covid and fatherhood happening back to back. The EU is the best. I got about 50 of the EU books from a used books store/comic shop for my birthday once and it was the best gift I've ever gotten. (And one year I got tires) Most of these things were on my list but I'd also add the Gameboy games and the legos. I've been looking to fill the gaps in my EU novel collection while I can still find them, but part of me wants to get them all in hard cover and fill a wall.
I had a manager once who said he loved Ep 1, solely because of the Maul fight at the end. As I told him, one decent fight scene did not make up for a terrible story. And I would argue the same thing for the fights in the “sequels”. He didn’t last long, lol
KOTOR 2 on Steam can be bought as a (more?) complete game. I think when it originally came out, it wasn’t finished and a lot of people were turned off by it. I also love “Edge of the Empire”, a D&D game with a Star Wars coat of paint. It has a unique dice system that isn’t so much about numbers as it is about storytelling.
You guys hit on some excellent stuff. Shadow of the Empire 64 is so hard as an adult and I was playing Jedi difficulty as a kid. Andor was great, the second season may be reason enough to resubscribe to Disney Plus.
My first PC game was Jedi Outcast. Not sure if it was bootleg East European copy of original or not. Had no previous experience with Star Wars but I really loved world in that game. It really made my imagination work hard.
I love X-wing and Tie Fighter games on PC, best fighter sim games ever, especially Tie Fighter. I also love the Clone Wars, very good show. I like Rebels too, it was a lot of fun. The Zahn trilogy is the best, though it does exactly what everyone hated about Rise of Skywalker and brings back the Emperor as a clone. And the Stackpole X-Wing trilogy is awesome, I learned the word Juke and Etherial Rudder, lol
Love the Heir of Empire…was my 1st SW book series and is why I feel in love with Star Wars…Disney has never come CLOSE to duplicating those stories…besides Andor…Andor was a great show!!!
For me, the X-wing series was almost as good a the Thrawn trilogy... not to mention the Yuuzhan Vong era... I really miss the previous exented universe... It wasnt always coherant but it was pretty close.
29:25 Yeah, I'm on board with that. I don't "hate" Darksaber, and I still enjoy Kevin J. Anderson's books, but Darksaber...what the hell. [spoilers] The villains are a big joke. From what I remember, they're used more for comedy than menace. And near the end, three X-Wing pilots launch a covert operation to infiltrate the _Darksaber_ and plant explosives, but get killed one-by-one by the most ridiculous villains in the galaxy. So these brave individuals take on a heroic mission, make the ultimate sacrifice, and meet their end at the hands of a bunch of clowns. And then the villains do something stupid (I forget what) and get their planet-killer crushed between two asteroids. So pilots' sacrifice was totally pointless. So yeah, barf on that book.
It's great for different reasons than the first one. The story isn't as clear and motivating; but the depth of the characters absolutely dwarfs its predecessor. Not to mention the dozens of quality-of-life improvements it made.
They stopped making movies after solo failed then their tv shows started failing. I don’t think it’s how many they’re releasing I think it’s the quality. Story just isn’t there anymore
Andor is totally worth it! It’s really excellent. I consider it a season long supplement to Rogue One that covers the clandestine birth of the Rebellion.
I really loved Episode 1. I bought the 3-disc set and watched every bit of it. When Episode 2 came out, I bought that, too, but strangely never even opened the package. I've heard that other guys did the same thing. I didn't understand woke, back then, but I feel like this must have been when it started. I just didn't care about watching Star Wars, any more.
6:09 nice talk. The Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series was my favorite part of the EU. not a fan of the post-Lucas stuff to be honest (Rogue One wasn't too terrible even though it treaded on that EU territory; Mandalorian was mostly fine at least the two seasons I saw). I loved the prequel trilogy except Episode I (though I still own a copy of the DVD & Blu-Ray, I admit). I greatly enjoyed reading the Darkhorse comics from that era as well.
That’s myth, he didn’t “hate” her. He was indifferent to her as a character, but started disliking her design after photoshoot for SW trading cards, as he thought she was too model-like in appearance.
I had the pleasure of meeting Mr Zahn at the Des Moines Comic Con this past June and bought a signed copy of the 20th Anniversary edition of Heir to the Empire (regrettably, I lost my 1st edition copy). He continues to write excellent stories. If only KK and Disney had not been so arrogant about relegating the EU to “legends” and been so cheap to hire sub-standard writers instead of paying competent ones their due royalties for better stories.
Yeah. I met him at Salt Lake Comic Con 5 years ago, and we had a great conversation about his characters and some of his thoughts on what Disney is doing. He's a great guy and I left thinking how much I wish that he could have been Luca's pick for creative control.
I met him at Phoenix FanFusion a while back. It was odd since I expected to see one of the greatest writers in sci-fi history have a line but it was oddly nonexistent. He was sitting there eating a pretzel. Anyway I took the opportunity to talk to him and get my 2nd copy of heir to the empire signed (first one was chewed up by my dog). It was great listening to how he thinks about writing and telling a wonderful tale and character creation. Simply an amazing man.
@@GeronKizan I was surprised too that only 2 people were in line, me included. He has superb storytelling talent and is a wonderfully genial personality besides.
There was a 1990s to early 2000s period of amazing Star Wars games: X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, Mysteries of the Sith, Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy, Knights of the Old Republic, The Sith Lords, Rogue Squadron 3D, Galactic Battlegrounds, Empire at War, Republic Commando...
@clonetrooper2003 Also rock solid choices. Though if I'm ever suggesting someone, especially a Prequel fan, start reading EU stuff, I always suggest four books, basically back to back: Darth Plagueis, Labyrinth of Evil, the Revenge of the Sith novelization, and Dark Lord: the Rise of Darth Vader. Those four novels tell a pretty cohesive story together, and can make for an excellent supplement to the Prequel films.
I had my copy of heir to the empire signed by Zahn on the 20th anniversary tour. I got to stay behind and talk to him for a while at Borders, It was genuinely a positive way to meet my hero. And while we're on Star Wars, let's get one things straight: Star Wars ended in 2012 when the creator of Star Wars stopped creating Star Wars. What Disney is doing is vanfiction (vandalism fiction) Aunt has no more right to Star Wars Canon than any middle schoolers ewok love triangle fanfiction. You can buy the Mona Lisa and have every right to draw a mustache on her, but the mustache will never be part of the Mona Lisa.
Shadows of the Empire on the N64 hasn't aged well as a game, but the story was really cool. Star Wars: Rogue Squadron is one of the best games on the N64 ever, in my opinion.
Leia kneeing Prince Xizor in the groin, Chewie slipping over in sewage, and Lando accidentally on purpose dropping a thermal detonator down a garbage chute are some of my favourite Star Wars funny moments.
I Agree. The Rogue Squadron was fantastic. It Disney did it as a show all the pilots would be butch lesbians and the men would be soy or drooling Homer Simpsons.
Yep, now they are trying to please 1% or LESS of the population with stupid antics,sexual inappropriate displays and wording and America has had it with their agenda! George Lucas shouldn't of sold to Disney! They are corrupt and greedy to the point of shock factors not to get an audience. DISGUSTING 🤮🧐
@docsavage8640 oh no doubt. But I feel like Zhan was held back by Disney Canon. For example the use of the Grissk as the outside threat. Had Disney Canon not been there it would have been the yuuzhan vong. That was the race the chiss were worried about
@@sauriel2014 The Yuuzhan Vong invasion would have been a worthy subject to attempt on screen. According to Filoni they were to make an appearance in the original Clone Wars Season 7 concept but then Disney happened.
Oh my goodness Heir to the empire! Where to start. First thing is I'm a middle school teacher and was lucky enough to get a displate of Grand Admiral Thrawn and Vader signed by Zahn. Second is this series had everything you needed to set up post ROTJ. 1) An amazing nuanced villain who actually makes you root for him at times. The Rebels were lucky he wasn't in command at the battle of endor. Thrawn would have beaten the new republic with far less forces if not for betrayal. 2) Talon Karrde, who basically becomes the New Republic's supply guy. 3) Luke meeting Mara Jade, his future wife and everything you want in the "Strong female character" 4) Luke seeking out history of the jedi, preparing him for becoming the Grand Master of the new order 5) Leia coming into her own as the "Daughter of vader" through the exposing of the noghri tragedy. 6) Deepening of Leia and Han's relationship I'm sure I missed some stuff. I'm pretty sure Disney is able to keep pumping out this swill because they are being funded by blackrock and other big investors. If money was an object they'd not keep making stuff that loses it!
Love the Thrawn trilogy so much!! I even got my mom, who normally cant stand Star Wars, into the audio books and that’s our new favorite thing to do😂 so true right?!? You totally gotta root for Thrawn sometimes!! And Pelion in the Hand of Thrawn duelogy too!!
The EU died when Lucas made the Mandos pacifists during the Clone Wars (and said Jango Fett was never an actual Mando), directly contradicting an ongoing EU series. It caused the writer, Karen Traviss, to quit because all the work she did was flushed down the drain. And that is just one example. Lucas was never going to let the EU continuity override his own ideas, and the EU would have been completely buried with his Sequel Trilogy, which would have contradicted anything post-ROTJ. He let the EU creators play in his sandbox, and had some rules for them to follow, but it was still his sandbox and he could destroy whatever castles they built (and I'm fine with that, btw, as I want his version of Star Wars more than pro-fan fic, even though some of it is great, like KOTOR). The EU fans who think he was somehow going to follow the EU continuity in the ST are literally nuts. We know for a fact that his ideas were going to wipe out the post-ROTJ EU.
@Fardawg wasn't Jango not born mandalorian? I thought he was taken in by jaster mareel after death watch attacked? Or am I misremembering and Jango was born Mando death watch attacked his village? If I'm wrong please point me to the book that tells the story cause I always want more jango
I just finished the Zahn trilogy and the entire time my brain was playing the Star Wars themes in my head in accordance with the scenes. Big space battle from the heroes point of view? 2nd Death Star battle music. Mara and Luke walking through the forest? Endor flute song plays. Han and Leia having a romantic moment? "Han Solo and the Princess" plays.
Agreed with all of your takes. I would add Republic Commando. It was my favorite game for the longest time. Kyle mentioned the X-Wing miniatures game, the game isnt dead. My group still plays and will continue to play. The New Jedi Order series. I loved those books. The Yuuzhan Vong were such a great villain that united the Imperial Remnant and New Republic together. I loved the groups working together and the Empire being the "good guys."
What I read was Lucas had to approve of all three novels of Heir series. He made Zahn make at least on change. Oringinally Joruus C'baoth was an insane clone of Obi-wan. Lucas made him change that.
I think the recent Acolyte has actually done a big favor to the original EU in making it popular again in an indirect way. It's becoming increasingly obvious to a lot of the Disney SW audience that Disney has pretty much given up at this point (some can easily argue that it was much sooner, but the damage is more noticeable now than ever). Heir to the Empire, Shadows of the Empire, and the Bane Trilogy were wonderful storytelling. The original EU is a treasure trove of content with games galore. Disney has only made so many games that barely scratched the surface. I've actually become more interested in returning back to the original EU and desire the original books and I wouldn't be surprised that others feel the same way. As far as I feel, I just don't see much of a future in Disney SW. With the exception of a few, a majority of the general Disney SW fans are just gone. They aren't toxic. They're just alienated. I barely ever hear anybody talk about it anymore, and Disney is just throwing money away, shortening down on SW projects, or even canceling future projects.
It got me to play KOTOR and holy shit it's amazing. I'm on the second one now, and I love it. Kreia is such a complex and interesting character and Nihilus is terrifying.
As someone who loved the Clone Wars and Rebels animated series, I was really disappointed in Ahsoka. It didn't advance the story or the characters. If anything, it look them all backwards,and they were all worse off then when they were left at the end of Rebels.
STAR WARS : who is behind all the wars killing Trillions of life forms ? The A.I. R2D2 & C3PO are there to spy on both sides of The Force...WHO BENEFITS ? The less living things, the more powerful the machines become & they have to pit The Force users agaibst each other because non-living machines can not access the force...
Thanks for doing this- as an early Gen Z ultra Star Wars fan who gave up after Disney murdered the EU and cocked up the franchise, it's nice to know others remember it too. The Darksaber: Yeah, Durga had it built using the expertise of Bevel Lemelisk (the Death Star chief designer). From memory although it's shaped like a big lightsaber, it's technologically just a Death Star-type weapon with all the Death Star's extra stuff (crew quarters, hangars, gun emplacements etc.) removed, leaving just the weapon (to make it cheaper/quicker to build). It also blew up when it tried to fire because the Darksaber used inadequate and obsolete parts, against the designer's wishes; knowing it would blow up, he left. Lemelisk was previously painfully executed multiple times by the Emperor for the Death Star fault and other failings, but each time he would resurrect him into another body before he died, because his abilities could not be matched and the Emperor needed him. The New Republic captured him immediately after the Darksaber, and after interrogating him and getting him to analyse certain bits of tech, they executed him several years later after for being convicted of crimes: I think mainly mass murder/genocide for the Death Star's strike on Alderaan. His last words were to "get it right this time."
I love all the films of the original trilogy, but Return of the Jedi will always be my favorite. Everything with the opening act at Jabbas palace is amazing. The Ewoks are bad I'll admit, but the 3 settings finale is great, and everything In The Emperor's Throne room still makes the hairs on the back of my head stand. Like goes from a whiny farm boy in the first film, to a mature warrior, and willing to give his life to save his father. Beautiful and perfect ending to the story.
I loved Return of the Jedi most probably because it was the first Star Wars movie I ever saw in cinemas, or better the first Star Wars movie I ever saw. Back then there were no movie rentals, no DVDs, no VHS, if the movie wasn't in the cinema your only chance to watch it would be for it to be on TV, but Star Wars was never on German TV until I think the 90s or so. So I read the books for the first two parts of the trilogy (i.e. ep 4, 5) and listening to John Williams' Star Wars soundtrack on LP I had to imagine what the movies must've been like. That scarcity made the movies that more special and precious.
They definitely should have used the Thrawn Trilogy for the sequels. I wouldn’t have tried to use all of the Expanded Universe as some of it is weird and not as high of quality. I would have done the Thrawn Trilogy, some of the Jedi Knight arc, and a trimmed down Ushong Vong arc. Maybe do an animated series with the Skywalker children (akin to clone wars).
My copy of Rogue Squadron on GameCube is one of the greatest videogame experiences of all time. Factor 5 were THE guys to program system pushing games for the Cube. And N64
The Thrawn trilogy really takes me back. Just looking at the book covers brings a sense of excitement that I felt when I first saw them on the bookstore shelves, let alone reading them.
Pepperidge Farm remembers. I recall listening to Tim talk about The Acquisition at a book signing for Scoundrels (Jan 9, 2013). I knew it was the beginning of the end, even though he was more hopeful than I was (obviously, he had to be to maintain any employability).
I liked star wars enough but when Kotor came out something clicked in my head as far as the real appreciation and love for the galaxy far far away 🤯🤯❤❤ I despise the Disney star wars and it's just bad fan fiction imo
I just listened to Heir to the Empire. Still one of my favorites but Mara Jade is very bitchy because she couldn't be evil for the empire anymore. Kotaku is still in business was a cold statement lol. Dei ruins everything
I can only think of a few truly all inspiring moments in a theater… The first one that jumps to mind was watching Star Wars (a new Hope) in a theater and immediately after the scrolling words, princess Leia’s ship entered the screen, followed by that huge imperial ship. Having only 1960s sci-fi to compare it to, it was the first time my jaw dropped at on-screen visual effects. The second one I can think of was the Normandy Landing scene in saving Private Ryan. Watching that movie at home does not do it justice…
Now to be 100% fair not all of the predisney books were good, heir to the empire was among the best. People loved that Thrawn was shown as a genius, and the fact that the rebels seemed to be on the brink of loosing it all
I loved most of them, but there was the odd dud. The New Jedi Order books were all over the place because of the way they rotated authors. One wanted Mandalorians so strong they could each 1v1 a Jedi to a standstill and the other authors were more realistic and had Jacen take out whole squads with ease. Still, whenever I get sad about the current state of SW, I look at my EU shelves and remember that I can always revisit 1000 hours of great content, and there is no other franchise you can live in quite like it.
As THE CRITICAL DRINKER put it:: "At this point, hearing anything about STAR WARS is like getting a letter from an X girlfriend who gained 50 pounds. There's a mild interest. But you just don't care anymore."
I would still care because I still care about all the girls I went out with for any length of time but I wouldn't have any interest in sleeping with her anymore
10:12 That's X-Wing: Alliance. You play as Ace Azzameen working at the beginning for his family's cargo transportation company flying one of their two YT-1300 freighters (same model ship as the Millennium Falcon but with no upgrades) and then their really cool YT-2000 The Otana.
