There are two issues with this tender - the plastic frame is not as flexible as it was when it was new, as a result it doesn't flex enough to separate it from the metal chassis. The metal chassis appears to have expanded, possibly due to minor mazak rot. These two problems can make the tender very difficult to get apart. You just have to be patient and work through it until it comes loose.
It seems like the problem is to get any grip on the plastic so you can level against the metal. So put a small hole in the plastic, away from the metal mount, and put a pin (like a small nail) and then turn a large screwdriver to lever the nail away from the metal chassis. Becasue you are not changing the latch itself, you will not reduce the latch strength, and the small hole is away from the stressed areas, so no added weakness. Best of all, no forcing a screwdriver (or knife) into a gap that doesn't want to open, and so risks slipping into the hand that is holding it! Also, don't try to remove the latch with the larger tab; this has a shoulder to stop you from getting to it, and also has to clear the whole of the larger tab (before it was filed down).
hey mate - i've had the same issue with a scotsman just now; in the end using a chunky knife from the kitchen draw to slide down the back and force back the plastic from the 'smaller' tab got it to budge; its taken me 37 mins and watching your attempts :) thanks for the IPA tip i think this helped loosen it aswell
Thanks for going thru all this trouble... Maybe the "keep it in the chassis", is the best advice. I'll have to see when I'm up for trying this. I've got a couple of other projects that well likely involve some swearing too! I've done the backwards thing several times, despite saying to myself - "don't put it on backwards"!!
You are very welcome. Several people have asked for help with the same tender, so I figured I should take a look at it. If the rear axle isn't lifting up, unless you have a really compelling reason to need to take the chassis off, I would definitely leave it in the chassis and do whatever maintenance you need to do in place. Since I have a couple of tenders with that axle lifting slightly, I will have a go at trying to 3D print a better replacement part.
Yeah, the plastic was way more flexible when they were new. I think that's the main issue. I actually did this about 18 months ago to service mine. There were lots of choice words said 😊 I like the channeling Charlie - that'll be the phone then 😂
I was filming so I had to severely restrict my choice words! I did notice while editing that the last fixed axle closest to the buffers was rising up about a mm or so above the track. I have a couple of locos that use the same design and two of them have a similar issue. Looks like the heavier cast motor block puts too much pressure on the weakening plastic, and that tab joint gets pushed upwards / inwards, causing that rear axle to lift up. I've got enough now to probably justify the hour or so of CAD work it will take to 3D print a replacement! I normally film videos between 8pm and 10am in the morning on weekends, so rarely do I get calls interrupting me. However that video overran a bit, so I now know how Charlie feels. LOL..
I may have asked this question before. I am trying to replace tge brass cog on the motor but am having difficulty getting it on to the axle. Have you done this and if so , can you demonstrate it? Thanks
Yes I've done this before, it can be a real pain to do and patience is the key. The first thing you need to do is make sure you have the correct brass cog. If memory serves me right, there are two types, one for the 3-pole and one for the 5-pole, I believe they have different diameters. I think the 3-pole one is bigger. I used a vice (very carefully) the last time to do this. If you are not sure, I'll dig around on Boxing Day and see if I can confirm that. I've got plenty that need this done, so I can probably put together a video of the holidays. I was also messing around with 3D printed cogs awhile ago trying to re-gear the ringfield motors, had it pretty much working so I should probably share that with folks as well. Is there a specific loco you are trying to fix?
I am not at the station at the moment however, The original cog was the alloy material, it cracked and started spinning. There are two types of brass cog, an Eleven tooth and a Ten tooth one. I don’t recall which one it is and I was not aware they had different diameters. That might explain why it has been so difficult to get it on. Don’t rush with the video but it would be interesting to know which one is for which. Merry Christmas and thanks for taking the time to respond.👍
Normally yes, although I wouldn't use a screwdriver as you'd mess up the plastic, but in this case, if you watch towards the end of the video, I explain that the metal has actually expanded (or the plastic has warped) over the years. Definitely something specific to this type of tender, as several people had requested what should have been an easy to do task was turning out to be quite challenging as you can see in the video! :)
am having trouble removing chassis from tender so that i can replace traction tyres how do you do this easily please you dont show it in video you skip it
Hello Rob. If you look at the video around 37:36 you will see that I explain and walk through exactly what I did to remove the chassis. Basically I had to file down parts of the metal so that the plastic shell would release. The reason I had so much trouble with it is that the plastic was not as flexible as it once was, that or the metal expanded (mild mazak rot?). You will likely spend some time filing and sanding the metal back so the plastic chassis will clip back into place.
Very informative video. I'm currently struggling to remove the motor from the chassis of the Hornby Flying Scotsman which is also tender driven and seems to use exactly the same tender as the Mallard or whatever A4 type in your video. After almost an hour spent yesterday struggling like you did, I still haven't succeeded :( but I'm going to try with a stronger screwdriver with more leverage and maybe a bit of WD40 if the metal and plastic have fused like yours. Btw, you often say "its supposed to just pop out" but as a newbie to repairing old locos, started as a lockdown hobby, I've been disappointed at the lack of official detailed maintenance/repair instructions I've found so far from Hornby - the service sheets tell you the part numbers in the exploded view but no info how to disassemble. Without videos such as yours, how would we know that it is "supposed to just pop out". Without you having done it before, I'd be reluctant to push and pull these old engines around too much for fear of damaging them, especially as some are actually my sons and not mine.
Re the removal of the tender housing, dont blindly follow the advice on here as I did, which didn't work with the plastic shims, as there were two tiny screws located beneath at the loco coupling end. Undo these and the housing is easy to pull back. I guess it depends on which model you have. Mine is circa 2000 vintage, and came within the Mallard train set; Hornby ref R1040.
Thanks for the feedback Nick. It is always a good idea to check for screws before removing any body shell. You don't know if the model has been modified by a previous owner or by Hornby or in this case a slight tweak to the design. I've got Hornby A4s that are older and newer than R1040, and none of them have screws holding the tender body shell on. Interestingly enough though several of the early "Made in China" locos that I have, do have screws in the tender, so its quite possible Hornby tweaked the design. Did you get R1040 second hand or is it a loco you've had for a long time?
@@Oorail The A4 actually belongs to an elderly neighbour, and asked me to sell it for him on ebay, but I can't do that yet as the tender drive has an intermittent fault, stopping/ starting as it wishes, hence my investigation on its innards. He told me he bought it new around 2005, and yes it was made in China. I have to say your video terrified me, and it put me off at first to do anything, but now I have the technique, it's very easy to remove the bodyshell and the base frame.
Your best bet is going to be Peters Spares. I'm tweaking a 3D printed replacement chassis as the one in this video keeps having problems, not sure if the metal motor mount is expanding or if the plastic isn't as flexible as it once was. I suspect its an issue with the plastic, so 3D printing a replacement seems to be the best fix.
If the rods aren't bent or corroded, you should be able to use the same oil you lubricate the motors with on the moving parts, then gentle rock the loco back and forth until they start moving again. Make sure they aren't bent though as you can damage the loco further.
Where I come from, we would say "he was cletching (verb) at the tender". And finally we would say "the tender had been cletched (adjective) at". And so to "cletch" is to commence a repair without sufficient knowledge or correct tools - and invariably make a bollocks of the whole job. In your defence, it's a poor design, not designed to be taken apart - poor quality castings (common place on Hornby) and brittle plastic. Basically Chinese garbage. I hope this helps🤷♂️
Not really since its got made in Great Britain stamped on it. This is an older A4 made by Hornby in Margate. Taking the tender off should take about a minute, the problem with it was mazak rot had expanded the metal chassis in the tender to the point where it was pressing against the plastic preventing it from being removed. I ended up using a dremel tool to grind down part of the metal chassis to prevent this being an issue in the future. So where I come from, we would say you "didn't know your ar** from your elbow" based on your comment, but thanks for taking the time to comment though!
I have (I think) a later tender - made in China. Some plonker (honestly not me) cleaned his track with wire wool and ran the tender. Complete clogged with wire wool, and has pushed the brass contacts back off the inside of the wheel. So the motor has to come off the chassis - similar problem to you had. Then the wheels will need to be removed so as to align the pick ups again. Do you know if the wheels come off the axles easily? Thank you.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Paul. If you watched the video you would have seen that the motor is actually stuck due to an expansion problem with the metal and plastic over time. This is explained at the end of the video.
