Repertoire: The WORST and BEST Brahms German Requiem 

Dave. Bravo bravo bravo!! Wow. Holy Molie. Jeesh! What a talk. What a joy. What knowledge. What brilliance. Your viewership should be 1m at this point. You are a creative genius who has filled such a musical void for me and I am sure for many of us on here. I am thankful beyond words. Thanks for this amazing talk. One of your best yet. Every single aspiring classical music person should watch this channel. Every person who has any kind of passing interest in music should watch this channel. You are like a fine wine. Gets better with age. I have all of your top Recommendations but I am going to pick up The Shaw and the wit. Thank you again!! Bravo.

Another informative and entertaining video. I stumbled upon Klemperer and his "granitic" Brahms Symphony box and it won me over. Thanks so much for your channel.

When I was 8 or 9 years old we were in Richmond, Virginia, while my father was doing research to finish up his dissertation. And the Richmond Symphony Orchestra did this German Requiem. All the rehearsals were on campus, and my mom took me to all of them and to the performance. I have loved the piece since then. I grew up with the Klemperer studio recording, so it's hard to distance myself from it, but it is truly, truly great. HOWEVER! There are two recordings that are not mentioned that I think are both absolutely wonderful. But they are both from the 1950s and are mono. But the sound of both is plenty good enough. 1. Schuricht -SWR on Haenssler - just what you would expect from Schuricht - exciting, disciplined, full of details 2. Celibidache - WDR Cologne (1954) - ten minutes faster and in every way superior to his Munich version, which is a self-parody.

Wow. This was a very powerful episode. Thanks for describing your journey to appreciating this unique work. I never really "got it" until listening to it right after my discharge from the Army. The Klemperer EMI is a masterpiece. I have never heard the live performance and will track it down. Thanks for mentioning the Leinsdorf version. I am not always a big fan of his stuff but I have always liked that recording. There are a couple of Carl Schuricht performances floating around. I remember really liking one with soloists Maria Studer and Herman Prey.

I’m so glad I came across this. I’m conducting it next month and, like you, it’s taken me a while to warm to it. Some great things here - not least, don’t let it be boring !!! Thank you.

I discovered the piece when at a memorial service for a former master of my college, it was noted that he had been a member of the Sydney Philharmonia Choir. Moments later members of the choir scattered throughout the congregation rose to sing "Wie lieblich sind deine Wohnungen" and I completely melted as I sat "inside the choir". The consolatory nature of the work is what I responded to emotionally. It's now one of my favourite long-form works of any type. ( Please do one of my others: the Schubert E-flat piano trio. )

I have loved this piece since I was a teenager, when I was going to Mormon early-morning seminary (don't ask!) I can't say I was shocked to hear you say you hated it for decades; I understand! But my seminary teacher liked to put on a classical record or two as we were gathering at 6 AM, and one of his favorites was the Mormon Tab Choir (yeah, I know) doing the first and fourth sections. It wasn't until much later that I got to know the whole work--and then had the chance to sing it in the chorus with the Utah Symphony and our beloved Abravanel. I have just stumbled onto a RU-vid video with the Norwegian Soloists' Chorus and Orchestra, and boy! I love it even more. Grete Pedersen is dealing with a chorus of 26 and a small orchestra here. They all look very young. To me, a lifelong lover of this music, this is a brilliant reading. And: 68 minutes! She doesn't dawdle or milk it. I wish there was a CD.

David, I loved this evaluation of the Brahms... I listened to the end, and I was wondering why the Klemperer version was not mentioned. I became more and more anxious as you neared the very end, thinking it hadn't even made the inclusion. I was on tenterhooks.. I was so afraid it would be dismissed, but thank heavens it came out on top. I LOVE it. One thing if I may.... here in the UK we have the Philharmonia chorus, and in Klemperer's day they were stupendous. And indeed they are on this recording of the Brahms Requiem. Thank you very much.

David, I LOVE YOU. You've really changed my life and i am grateful for your insightful and measured criticism.

Dear David, there is not a lot of people here in Argentina to share my love to Brahms' music with... so, you can imagine how much I enjoy your talks about the subject. The German Requiem was always a musical mistery to me, a Pandora's box. But after watching this video I could fix my ear on a particular fragment of the 2nd movement and build up the rest of the listening process from there. Thank you very, very much!

In 2015, I was fortunate to hear/see San Francisco Symphony/Herbert Blomstedt perform the requiem. The pre-concert speaker spoke about the requiem being an awkward piece to program because of it's length. A Brahms organ piece was performed before intermission and then the requiem. What a night! I would say my top three requiem recordings are: 1. Gardiner (Philips) 2. Blomstedt (Decca) 3. Giulini (DG) I didn't really get the piece until I bought Gardiner's CD and highly recommend it for anyone struggling to like the requiem. I just ordered Antoni Wit's recoding (Naxos). Really looking forward to it.

That gear-shift in the 6th movement has always been one of my favourite moments in the Requiem though it’s interesting to hear how it can be perceived as problematic:)

"Talk less. Listen more." What a great piece of advice!

My two recordings have been Robert Shaw/Atlanta and Andre Previn. I generally have difficulty with choral music, mainly a matter of adjusting to the sonic texture. But listening just now to Blomstedt with San Francisco I was immediately struck by the clarity and forward movement. Thanks for that recommendation!

Big brahms and german requiem fan here. I wasn't familiar with the Kegel recording. I am listening to it while typing this comment, and I am in awe. Thank you very much, and greetings from Brazil!

Dear David. I got to know your channel thanks to the videos of your Repertoire series. I think it is the series of your channel that has achieved more subscribers and visitors, so I miss a lot that you make more videos on the repertoire of concertos, symphonies and other important works, since at least, you have many masterpieces to analyze your best recordings according to your criteria, so I encourage you to retake this interesting cycle. Best regards from Valencia, Spain.

So happy you left room for other opinions on the Kempe. I've owned and loved it since lp days, still haven't heard a performance that comes closer to my ideal even though the recording, good for its age but a fair way off today's standards, does handicap it a bit.

I recently discovered this piece, which has become one of my very favorites and was floored by the Klemperer recording with Fischer Dieskau and Schwartzkopf. Thanks for this video David!

A feast for the musical devotee, David, and your delivery is so natural, too. Brahms would have loved it.

1:04:04 I love your enthusiasm in this part. What makes it priceless is - you are so right! My respect for Otto Klempere(u)r just grew an inch. (Because it was already high, mind you. ;))) I confess in not having heard his version(s), but that' gonna change. So far I held the Giulini for the best in my collection, interesting how it will compare.

Dave, if a piece you used to hate eventually gets an hour long review, I'm very much looking forward to your 3-hours discourse on Lalo's Symphonie Espagnole, or a full evening's worth of banter about all the best and worst versions of Ravel's Tzigane... Just kidding, I loved this long talk about a piece that's so close to my heart. It wasn't always, though. Like you, my appreciation was marred at first by a recording that just didn't click with me (Previn, the old RPO version, not the new one with the LSO). Things changed when Klemperer crossed my path.

Mahler had planned to introduce the young Bruno Walter to Brahms,but Brahms' advanced bad health prevented this meeting.Pierre Monteux did get to meet Brahms once.I believe Monteux is the only musician to meet the great Brahms in the flesh AND live to make stereophonic recordings.

La durata del video è pari alla durata del Requiem. Ben fatto!

this is real criticism and insight. thanks so much, David.

The program notes of my favorite recording (Blomstedt/SFS, I think they were by Michael Steinberg) emphasized greatly that the German Requiem is not about the dead, but about those who remain, drawing parallels to Whitman writing of the families of the Civil War dead - the survivors are those who suffer, and need comfort.

Hi David, thanks for the terrific-as-always overview. I was surprised that the Previn/Royal Phil recording on Teldec didn't make your list. Terrific sound, pacing and the most sonorous cast (Samuel Ramey and Margaret Price) of all time. Have you considered putting up a video on the Mozart Piano Quartets? Two of my desert island works, and you can always get them on one CD!

Thank you for mentioning Bruno Walter’s performance, despite the choral limitations. True story - as a college student I picked up a copy of the Walter/NYP/Westminster Choir recording one Saturday afternoon at a used record shop, knowing nothing about the piece but the price was right (less than a dollar as I remember). The next day I skipped church because I was “tired,” and plunked Brahms, his German Requiem, and Bruno Walter on the turntable and went back to bed. Of course I was asleep within minutes, because, well it was boring. HOWEVER…about 15 minutes in I was shaken awake, literally thinking the world was ending, then realized it was the SAME PIECE, SECOND MOVEMENT, with all hell breaking loose, telling me I was made of nothing but grass. Boy did I get dressed and off to church quick. Later that afternoon, still in a state of shock, I listened to the whole thing twice, and it changed my life. I’m sure there are better performances, much better recorded sound, much better choirs - but this is the one I hope they are playing in heaven. Thanks for the memories!

Great and spot on review, as always, Dave! I have yet to find a whole performance of this work that I am completely happy with personally; however, I have created a playlist comprised of four performances with which I am quite satisfied. Here it is movement by movement: I. Shaw II. Shaw III. Blomstedt (Holzmair) IV. Hickox V. Klemperer (Schwarzkopf) VI. Shaw (Stilwell) VII. Blomstedt The Hickox is a sleeper as the other movements are quite disappointing, but the excellent singing (and not too slow tempo) of his fourth movement make for the most enjoyable rendition of this movement I have yet to hear. Blomstedt’s handling of the fugue in the third movement is incredible: He manages to make it sound like a powerful locomotive that cannot be stopped until the C naturals start popping up in bar 202. At this point, the conductor locks up the wheels, and the train skids down the rails to a perfectly timed halt in the station before it can crash into the double bars. I agree that this piece is too “fugue-ee” overall. Both Brahms and Mendelssohn (two of my favorite composers) have a seemingly unhealthy obsession with Bach. I have an unhealthy obsession with both Mendelssohn and Brahms, but, fortunately, I do not write music, so no one else has to suffer as a result of my fixation.

Many thanks for your extensive review. I really appreciated your honesty in revealing your longstanding dislike of the piece and then how you came to appreciate its greatness while remaining ambivalent about certain sections (like the fugues). The fact that the recommendations of some music critic friends helped with this change of mind was also dispelled any notion that the critic operates in a hermetically sealed solitue: it can never be "just me and the music/recording." I had to chuckle, though when you mentioned that it was Karajan's 1964 DG recording of the German Requiem that engendered your initial and subsequent dislike of the piece. For that recording was my first exposure to the work, but in my case it was love at first hearing. I still cherish that old recording; it doesn't sound insincere to me (and Janowitz is heart-wrenching in her solo). Later, however, I came to prefer crisper, clearer, and lighter versions such as Ansermet and Leinsdorf. I was pleased that you gave both of them a thumbs up. Finally, I wanted to mention that my understanding of the piece got a huge boost when a few years ago I had to sing it in a performance. The choral parts may sound effortless in a good recording, but they are formidably difficult. Just when you think Brahms is going to let you relax--such as after the athleticism of that fugue in Movement 6, he makes you have to concentrate even more, and strain even harder to sing the punishing (but to the audience simple-sounding) choral lines in the concluding movement. Brahms demands everything from his performers--even lowly choristers. Thanks again, Dave for this long but riveting review!

The German Requiem is one of my favorite pieces, and has been for a very long time. I first heard it at Orchestra Hall in Chicago with Daniel Barenboim conducting (Jaqueline DuPre played a cello concerto that night, also). I've also played it in community orchestras on more than one occasion. The piece is louder than it seems on recordings. Brahms doesn't usually write "brassy" or "edgy" brass parts. They're blended into the texture, but are still quite loud. In fact, one of the few times I experienced a slight ringing in my ears (an ode to Tinnitus records? LOL!) was during a rehearsal of this work with a really good community orchestra and chorus with a conductor who encouraged the strings to match the brass in intensity, instead of telling the brass to be quiet, as is the case with most community orchestra conductors I've played under. That approach makes a huge difference in the string sonority, but I digress... As a trombone player, I sit right in the middle of the action, so to speak, so the sound completely surrounds that part of the orchestra.

Hi David, thank you for this great review on this work. This piece has become one of my absolute favorite works. However, when I first listened to it, (which was like two years ago, since I'm not that old anyway....... ) I was mostly uninterested. I thought it was pretty and I could also recognize it as being a masterpiece, but I wasn't enthralled with it. Oddly enough, it was Gardiner's recording that really got me into it.... and believe it or not, it was his second one... :-) However, I love the first one far better. I had to laughed at your remarks on Gardiner...( I must agree) :-) Though his first recording it really great, and me being a Shaw fan... I also keep Robert Shaw's telarc recording as one of my favorites, too. Thanks so much for this great video. I am not sure if this is allowed, but if you haven't already, do you think you could do a video on Berlioz's Requiem sometime? I know right... all this talk on "death".... :-) but I love Requiems and would be so glad to see a video on Berlioz's Requiem at some point.

Wow! I had not considered that you did not grow up around Klemperer's recordings. I did, so I am 'used to' him. I take for granted how well he did things. Hooray, you found his Brahms Requiem!!

Brilliant review. I've sung it a few times and concur that it is more effective performed on the faster side.

Perhaps Henry Jame's statement is true to music too: "Nothing, of course, will ever take the place of the good old fashion of 'liking' a work of art or not liking it; the more improved criticism will not abolish that primitive, that ultimate, test." (The Art of Fiction)

Thanks for mentioned the oft-overlooked Giulini on DG which features possibly the best choral contribution of any recording. A keeper. Shout out to my old choral mentor Vance George who prepared the chorus for Blomstedt’s Decca recording from SF, which won a Grammy Award.

Hello Dave Klemperer!! Yess!! He is the man to make you listen! He always brings his personality into the music. Now I wonder if you have come to like Pfitzner's Palestrina as well? Best wishes Fred

Thanks David, I do love the Klemperer 1962 recording, I also love the 1976 Loren Maazel with Hermann Prey ,I'm a Prey fan so need to get the Klemperer with Prey too when it's affordable lol

I got to take a moment to thank you David for your review. As a guy who likes requiems (Dvorak, Suppe, Mozart, Kozlovsky, Kabalevsky, Faure, Berlioz, Foulds), Brahms' masterpiece is something I have never quite gotten myself into, for some (unexplained) reason. Giulini's recording is perhaps the safest bet. I must explore further (and Verdi's for that matter). So thanks again.

Your excellent recommendations are always welcome. Personally, I most enjoy Tennstedt's recording with Lucia Popp. Norman was great, but Popp always resonated better with me.

I enjoy your commentary and respect the vast musical knowledge and depth you bring to each one of your analysis Dave, even if we may disagree at times. You’ve done few requiem reviews but I believe not the Mozart one, yet. Any chance you may tackle that in future? Thank you

I would totally watch a series of videos about the works you didn't get and the recordings that made you get them ❤

Gday dave, that is an amazing gong behind you, i love it

Utterly fascinating presentation! I was introduced to this piece from the inside. 60 years ago I was in the Harvard Glee Club and we sang this with the BSO under Erich Leinsdorf. One of the supreme musical experiences of my life. The music is still inside me 60 years later. Imagine singing “ Und alles Fleisch es ist wie Gras “ surrounded by the BSO sound !

Glad you mentioned the Leinsdorf: my first recording of it, so I kind of imprinted. Interesting that it took you a long time to 'get it' as a piece... if we give you another twenty years, do you think you'll find musical expressivity and delight in the sounds of a counter-tenor? Or will that take a bit longer? :-)

I first encountered the work in the form of an excerpt -- the 2nd movement only. I loved it immediately. I've struggled ever since to overcome the feeling that the rest of it is dull by comparison. Maybe Klemperer could help me feel differently...

David, I have yet to hear Blomstedt’s recording but strangely enough it’s his recording of Schicksalslied - a work I first heard 15 years ago with that very recording - which I have not heard bettered. It’s, as you would say, fabulous. Gorgeous strings, perfect tempi and the choir is on top form. An underrated piece, much like Brahms’s Rinaldo.

Regarding your comment that movement 2 has a Baroque quality, the "Denn alles Fleisch es ist wie Gras" theme directly quotes the opening chorus of Bach's Cantata No. 27. Coincidence? Maybe, but Brahms knew his Bach and eagerly followed the Gesellschaft edition when each new volume appeared.

I agree completely on the Klemperer. When I was a teenager and first sang in the chorus in this piece, Kempe's was the best available. No longer, of course, although the solo singing is wonderful. I'm happy that you like the Ansermet. It's more "lithe" but very fine overall. In general, I pay more attention to the soloists, and you more to tempos. There are so many good versions that unless sound, tempos, soloists, etc. are all to your liking, you should look further. At least some of the Lutheran solemnity will always come thru. The piece was written to console the living, of course. I wish your commentaries were briefer, but I enjoy them.

I am encouraged by DH's initial struggles with the German Requiem. He is open to so many forms of music--and his enthusiasm is so inspiring--that I feel consoled when he occasionally doesn't initially find a way into a canonical masterpiece. I'm still working on Debussy and Ravel (not to mention a swath of grand opera), so DH gives me hope that that I'll find my way into them, someday. As I watched, I was surprised and pleased to see DH praise the Leinsdorf/BSO recording. I picked it up on sale in the early 90s and it became my go-to German Requiem. Lithe, unsentimental, and powerful, it's a great performance from an often underrated conductor. What we hear as "getting out of the way" is the result of scrupulous, disciplined musicianship, and Leinsdorf had that throughout his career.

I'm glad you mentioned the Ansermet recording - I thought you might over look it. It has been my favorite from day one. I remember a reviewer who wrote about it when it first came out, saying that this would be the G.R. recording for anyone who loves the Faure Requiem. The other 3 I have are Klemperer, Bloomstedt, and Walter, so I guess I'm pretty well set. I also have a nomination for worst G.R. ever: a Nonesuch release from the late 60's with Baumgartner, from Hamburg. The chorus sounded like it had 20 each sopranos, altos, and basses, and maybe 5 tenors. Thankfully, I don't think it ever made it to CD.

The Dutch for 'Oh death where is thy sting?' is O dood, waar is uw prikkel? Just saying.

As I listen to this beautiful music and hear David telling us how bad he thinks it is, I wonder how apt is the maxim on his shirt: "Talk less and listen more"!

I first heard the Brahms Requiem on Klemperer’s EMI recording as a junior in college and immediately fell in love with the work-especially the second movement. I have since sung it numerous times as a chorister and it never gets old. Klemperer is the best in my book for the reasons you mentioned and I could never understand how anyone could prefer Karajan’s mush! However, there is a modern performance that received a rave review in Classics Today you didn’t discuss that for me is almost the equal of Klemperer and so dramatic in the second and sixth movements: Andre Previn’s with the London Symphony on LSO Live. Wow, is it good!

I don't love the work but I do respect it.. I have generally always turned to Klemperer but I recently heard the Giulini recording and actually found myself quite drawn in by it. I also like Ansermet which was interesting to see mentioned as he does seem to get lost in the shuffle these days but he really did some very enjoyable things. I have many of the others listed on both sides but I feel pretty content with those 3 for variety. Maybe one day I will pickup the Blomstedt if they give him a nice complete box.

Blomstedt has sold me on several great works that I was formerly unconvinced by, including the Eroica (SFS) and Sibelius 2. The German Requiem I was already a fan of, having first experienced it through the Shaw recording, but if I hadn’t been already, this recording certainly would have.

I was once told that that when Brahms called it "Deutsches Requiem", he meant it to be understood in the sense of "vernacular" requiem, not specifically German Requiem. He assumed that when it was sung in non-German countries, it should be in the language that the audience understood. I am aware of two English language recordings: the mono Toscanini/NBC broadcast (not issued by RCA, but it was on Naxos Historical Series) and the stereo recording by Ormandy/ Philadelphia (with Phyllis Curtin & Jerome Hines) on Columbia (has it ever been issued on CD?). The German-language Robert Shaw/Atlanta recording on Telarc was a missed opportunity (Shaw was the director of the NBC chorus in Toscanini's recording - CORRECTION: My mistake, the NBC Chorus did not take part in this 1943 performance - it was the Westminster Choir).

So I usually try to sample your recommendations, and doing so always plays out in one of two ways: I discover something new about the work, or it confirms that it just doesn't mean that much to me. I've heard many of the ones you recommend the most and those you trash the most. I long ago came to listen just to that "How lovely are thy dwellings" movement and the good ones and the bad ones all pass muster for my unenlightened ear. Time I guess to dust the piece off again and give it another shot.

Hi Dave. Just watched your video - that hour flew by. I have the DG Karajan recording ripped to my iPod. Can't say it's that bad but certainly not great. I also have the Blomstedt recording which I enjoy immensely (reminds me in some areas like the second movement with the Klemperer recording). I remember being at a thrift store several years ago. Another customer there had the Klemperer recording in his pile. Had I only got there a few minutes earlier. With that being said, I would like to get a copy. Which pressing has the best sound quality? I remember the 60's angel records not having great sound. I suspect the CD versions will sound better as I'm not sure if any lp remasterings were ever done.

always loved this work from the first hearing - maybe because i adore hearing a choir with an orchestra - or with a piano or any other instruments !

That’s is exactly the same section that was my hook into the Requiem .. interesting I like the post crescendo phrase which is so sweet . I was 37 living in rainy England at the time Definitely music for the rain ;)

Always thought it was a remarkable work (the grim beauty of 's Denn alles Fleisch, es ist wie Gras or the purely lovely Ihr habt nun Traurigkeit ); however aknowledge that it can get bogged down in Germanic stodginess (I still have the scar wounds from the Karajan EMI version) or it's a snooze fest (Sinopoli and Previn x2). Enjoy the Gardiner and Klemperer EMI versions, but downloaded Kegel's only yesterday! Wow what a version and a conductor (I've been listening to some of his Hindemith with the Dresden Philharmonic and Staatskapelle which is splendid too).

To me, this is one of those works that has no definitive favourite recording... It's either too light, too heavy, a problematic soprano, an out of shape bariton, an underpowered chorus or organ, weird tempo choices... However, my favourite recording, which I only discovered recently, is Sawallisch on Orfeo from 1984, with Margaret Price and Thomas Allen... It's swift (68') but has momentum, great soloists, a fine orchestra and a very fine chorus (Bavarian O&Ch). I also started with Karajan in this Requiem as a first... But it's indeed not his best of legacies. Some nice recommendations, though

as always, i love your recommendations. you made me discover leinsdorf's version which i now love. i do keep coming back to previn, margaret price, and samuel ramey with the ambrosian singers. maybe i'm biased because i grew up with it. recorded sound not very good. but no one comes close to samuel ramey's timbre and soaring crescendo. there's nothing like it. and how can anyone go wrong with margaret price? i'm not even an opera freak. i still have to hunt for a couple more of your other recommendations. many thanks!

I love this piece! My choice right now is Sawallisch and Barenboim early recording with the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Be honest Dave, it’s not the form you love in that 2nd movement excerpt you shared with us, it’s the TYMPANI!!! I think Solti/Chicago handles that passage better than pretty much anyone because of the brass, but I agree that on the whole it’s too slow. My new favorite is actually the Daniel Harding recording on Harmonia Mundi with the Swedes from 2 years ago. Singing is great, pacing is just right, and the fugues move but don’t drag and you can still hear everything you need to hear. It’s really worth hearing. If we’re pulling outside critical recommendations, it got a great review from the American Record Guide. The pacing in a live performance makes all the difference in the world, the chorus always gets tired by the end of the 6th movement and they still have to make it through another movement and it often goes flat. Karajan’a only great choral recording was the first Creation on DG, and what a great exception to the rule that is.

The fugue you took issue with reminds me of that one in *dons tie* The Ninth finale, which is positively jubilant in a good performance, far from "just sitting back and fuguing about it", and it seems very clearly to me to be an LVB disciple such as Brahms' idea of how to respond to defeating death. I'm surprised you didn't mention it. Even the Wit excerpt you played of it is extremely tepid an interpretation compared to how that could be played I think.

I sang in Requiem (in English) during the mid-80’s as a member in our local music society chorale during the mid-80’s. I am always been on the lookout for a better recorded version. Yes, the Karajan is not engaging and not helped by the recording’s anemic bass. Agreed, the Klemperer version is magisterial and a benchmark. However, the sonics show their age in the big moments. The version that I have kept returning to over the last 36 years is the Shaw/Atlanta. The interpretation and the sonics are wonderful, and the performance flows and blossoms effortlessly, particularly during the grander bits. Of course, a lot of effort went into making it appear to be effortless. Another performance not mentioned that I find intriguing is the live Levine/BSO/Tanglewood SACD on their BSO Classics label. Not quite the equal of the Shaw, the recording’s rendering of the performance in Symphony Hall is beguiling. YMMV.

I’m enjoying this series, it helps point towards buying value for money. I’ve made a list of ten CDs I’d like to buy but having difficulty sourcing the same recordings. Many seem to be unavailable as illustrated in your videos. :(

As far as the overall length and the proportions within the movements are concerned, the conductor Reinthaler, who prepared the Bremen performance which Brahms conducted, penciled metronome markings in the score which Brahms allowed to be published with the work for 25 years, before removing them. When those markings are followed (not slavishly), the performance comes out on the quicker side with terrific relationships between sections, like the spot you mentioned in the 6th movement. Personally, several things ruin this piece for me, tempos that are too slow, a soprano who can't handle the tessitura, and not using the organ. My own favorites at this point: Blomstedt, Klemperer, Paavo Jarvi (except for Natalie Dessay- who is unlistenable in the 5th movement), and a recent surprise for me, Daniel Harding, if you crank up the volume.

What a talk and what a personal journey! I have the studio Klemperer and a pirate Swedish Furtwaengler recording with rather local soloists and a very long final movement. I prefer the Klemperer. Out of curiosity have Naxos or Supraphon given you feedback as far as any increase in sales from using samples from their recordings in this chats??

Great review. I’m happy you mentioned Ansermet who is underrated in this piece. A pity you overlooked Kempe with Grummer. A lovely performance worth mentioning.

My first encounter with the German Requiem was Janos Ferencsik and the Slovak Philharmonic Chorus and Orchestra. Reason for purchase was that it was cheap. It is on Hungaroton from 1983. Slow at 77 minutes. I have since graduated to the Gardiner.

STACHEL, it is called Stachel in German, not Stucker or something, you listened to 30 recordings of the thing and can't remember the word? ... Anyway about the fugues, if god saves you from the stachel of death you just have to thank him in a long fugue!

Hi Dave---Like you I just 'did not get' the Brahms requiem for many years until I listened to the Giulini recording (thanks for mentioning it!). Now I have about eight---(no Karajan--could never stand him) including the Leinsdorf and the Kegel but the Klemperer is as they say hors concours.

Absolutely love this piece as I did on the first hearing which was an english version sung by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir under Ormandy. The Klemperer is now my fav go to which I play frequently. The second movement is really moving. But of course there are people who love Bach who is someone I find terminally boring, ditto Haydn. So in the end there is music to appeal to everyone.

Yes, 'Klemps' is the one. I believe that in another video, you said "Nobody did gloom better than Klemperer." Agreed !

A fascinating video. Though I never reacted as strongly you did, I always admired parts of the Requiem, but I always felt somewhat unfulfilled at the end of even a good performance. I have always preferred his marvellous shorter pieces for chorus and orchestra, the Alto Rhapsody, Schicksalslied, Gesang des Parzen and Nänie. To anyone who can't face 60/75 minutes of the Requiem, Nänie (Lament) is heartbreakingly beautiful, with some of the most beautiful writing for orchestral woodwind ever and the passage illustrating Thetis appearing to mourn her son Achilles surpasses anything in the Requiem, IMO. It's a shame that modern concert programming makes live performances rare.

I have a question regarding the Masur recording..would you know if this performance was the live version that he did after 9/11? If I recall, Britten's War Requiem was to be played but he quickly changed the program to the Brahms. If it is that performance, then I would give it a qualified pass..

That was a long video, Dave, so many thanks. And you did it so personally, so I found it rather moving. On changing your mind, I'll admit that when I was first reading your print reviews, I'd get irritated because I didn't know what you were like as a person (I suppose I still don't but as I've been listening to you now since the initial lockdown, its a good enough approximation). Every morning I look forward to when I can say "Hey Dave" when I start watching the video du jour. I didn't like the Brahms Requiem either, until I engaged with the Klemperer recording, which has sadly spoiled me for most of the others I have heard. It has a very particular quality, and I was startled when you reminded us that it really isn't that slow overall! One key is that it isn't exactly a "religious" work. Not an original observation on my part, but Brahms wasn't religious, it had something to do with the death of his Mum, so unlike a lot of religious things, its much more about how to go on living after great loss. Its a secular work, really, and constructs this amazing "spiritual" aura around post-religious life. Well, thats what I think. Thanks so much

Hello Dave, This is one of your most fascinating and helpful talks. I have been a Brahms devotee since my teens and yet I too have struggled with this work and can only truly relish it with recordings that exemplify the qualities you referred to. It really is primarily a work of tender, and sometimes luminous consolation. The lugubrious will not do. So many of your top picks are ones that I also love, and I agree that they really fit the bill. Blomstedt, Abbado, Kegel, Bernius, and Giulini are all in my top tier. I saw this video when it first was posted but I was reminded of it recently when I discovered a recording that I think truly belongs in the same category of what is just right for this work: It is about 70 minutes, has balanced 1st and 7th movements, has a great choir, orchestra, and soloists-the baritone has a slightly wider vibrato than is ideal, but it doesn’t get too much in the way-and the approach is one of radiant comfort, yet the fugues are exciting and well articulated, and there’s ample drama in 2 and 6. It is Michel Corboz and the Denmarks Radiokoret and symphony. I’ve heard many recordings of this work, but this one has me riveted. It has that long paragraph focus you were referring to in the Ansermet. He has some excellent recordings that I think were out of print for a while when Erato disappeared but now they (or at least some of them) are coming back. This one can be found on a Requiem collection released just last year on Erato along with Verdi, Mozart, Faure, and Durufle. He has also recorded some great Mendelssohn and Bach choral works, including a great St. Matthew Passion and Elijah. Anyway, it seems as if he’s been under the radar but maybe now he will have sure further interest. Knowing you from your many videos and especially this talk, I would say that I’m about 95% certain that you would put this recording into your top tier, if you don’t already know it (I know that you can’t include everything in one video). But if I’m wrong, I’m wrong-though I doubt it.

I like Karajan in this repertoire, but I do think you've kind of nailed what the problem is with him. Like those muy serioso video productions that he did in the 1980s, which I remember Tower in Southern California having on all the time whenever you'd walk in. Remember how he was credited as the director..?

The first Karajan recording has another problem: the choir, it's 1947 Vienna after all. BUT Hotter is tremendous, he sounds like a demigod.

What do you think of the various recordings of the German Requiem which use Brahms' own 2-pianos accompaniment? In my view the loss of orchestral colors can only partly be compensated by the added emphasis on the vocal lines. Though the version by Christoph Spering on Opus 111 sounds pretty convincing to me. And it's fascinating to hear Brahms' tradmark "heavy" piano scoring (doubled, even) being applied to one of his own choral masterpieces.

Eighty-four minutes? YIKES! The chorus generally stands the whole time. In some performances the chorus will sit during the soprano solo. I've done this back to back one year, with piano, four hands and a month later with orchestra. The optimal length is about 65-70 minute's. That said I find that the Brahms Requiem follows the psychological stages of grief and it's one of my favorites.

I'm absolutely tickled you named the fugues as your big stumbling block with the work! Some years back I joined a chorus for a festival performance, and adding to my general anxiety about learning the text and music (and struggling with the high tessitura of the second tenor part) was the presence of so many fugues. I was so irritated with Brahms for insisting on writing fugues, I actually felt he had no right to do so, being a Romantic composer! But I've calmed down since then.

I not only had problems with this piece, but with most of Brahms, since my teens. I liked the Sturm und Drang stuff like the First Piano Concerto and the Double Concerto, but the rest of it left me cold. When I heard Brahms symphonies in concert (excepting the Third), I used to nap (literally) at the second movement and wake up for the finale. Of his choral music, I liked only the motets, which I thought fabulous. As for the Requiem, I too agreed with Shaw. I simply couldn't see in it what others did. Fortunately, I did "keep listening." How could I help it, with Brahms a concert staple? My turnaround on Brahms in general came from a choral piece, the "Geistliche Gesang" (on a recording of Brahms motets), which had always struck me as a Mendelssohnian Song Without Words. For some reason, I realized it was a double canon at the ninth. I don't know why this turned me around, but it did. As for the Requiem, I too got tired of all the fugues ("Can't he think of any other way of ending a movement?"). But, as with Dave, it took a less-than-dreary performance to turn me around. Klemperer and (surprisingly) Gardiner. I look forward to listening to Dave's other picks.

Your talk on this topic was, as usual, brilliant. I for one have always loved the German Requiem, but I can understand how hearing a poor performance can ruin a work for someone. As a teenager, I thought the Brahms First Piano Concerto was doggerel, but that was because I learned it from listening to the dreadful Rubinstein/Leinsdorf rendition. But let me ask: as you went through your list of great Requiems, did you neglect to mention Previn's recording with the LSO from 2000, which I think is among the very best?

And how could you forget George Bernard Shaw's comment? (I quote from memory). "I love having Brahms' "Requiem' on the program. It gives me time to sneak into a corner of the concert hall giving me time to read all the day's papers." Unlike you, Mr. Hurwitz, he never lost his animosity. Bless you, sir for you eclecticism and delightful sagacity.

Gardener on Phillips has become my favourite and Abbado is my runner up.

oh god i just performed this. i LOVED movement vi for one moment: the moment where we sing “hölle wo ist dein sieg”. it’s a stunning tonal shift. that being said, the fugue that comes after is almost too much of a tonal shift in my opinion. it’s such a stunning half cadence proceeded by a fugue that i, quite frankly, felt should have been classified as a separate movement, or just left out entirely. the movement is ridiculously long. i still love it though

I saw it once in the local church just before Christmas. Bach Choir with two people on the piano. Was magical. Then we came out of the church snow was falling. Even more magical.

I waited for this discussion for so long! I even wrote and asked you for it a couple of times in the comments. Now I understand why it took you so long to do it. I share your experience with the piece with other pieces by brahms. It took me ages to get used to the fourth symphony then love it. And the same thing with the third. I still can't hear the second and first. Brahms is just a composer that takes me time to like. Not with the requiem though. This I love from the get go. From the first time I heard it. Still I get your experience with the piece.

The first German Requiem I heard was an obscure old record conducted by Carl Bamberger. I liked it well enough but then grabbed the Karajan EMI CD when I saw it because I thought it would be a step up. Woof! It was not that. I can well understand people being turned off this work by that recording.

Sincerity is all. Always be sincere! Whether you mean it or not! (Apologies Flanders and Swann).

For years I have been ashamed to confess publicly (and even at times, privately) that the Brahms Requiem just didn’t really do it for me. I think the term ‘heavy handed’ is adequate to describe what I was feeling about it. At the same time (as you also noted), I could hear that it is a masterpiece and that there are indeed glorious moments. But the work as a whole, just feels……..well, heavy handed. These days I feel a little more generous towards it, but I still can’t say it’s one of my favorite works. I was happy to hear a musician say that he didn’t care for it, either. Once upon a time, that is.

Ha! I like the fugue (lol)- and Szell- just heard Szell - really liked it 😊

How interesting and exciting. Long long time ago as a beginner and new listener, I started to listen to classical music with enthusiasm for several years. But I had not heard the German Requiem. Gradually, my ear became more professional and due to the conditions of my country (Iran), I did not have much access to all kinds of works and performances. But gradually I had collected a large collection of Classical music tapes. But still I had not heard the German Requiem! The CD was invented, but it had very, very little variety. On a trip abroad, I went to a CD store. In those days, many performances has not yet been converted to CD. But still there were many CDs that attracted my desire to buy. German Requiem was there. Performed by James Levine with Kathleen Battle. I bought it along with 118 other CDs. A suitcase full of CDs only. Nothing else! At that time, I was in love with Brahms. But I had not heard the German Requiem yet! On my return I immediately listened to the German Requiem. Oh, what a disaster! Boring, sleepy, without excitement and without climax! I was asking myself what happened? As a Brahmsian(!) why can't I connect with this work at all? I listened again but nothing changed. This CD became one of my banished CDs in the corner of my archive. In every reliable Classical music source, this work was mentioned as an important and significant work. But why was I so alien to it? Later, in many of great singers collections, I saw that they included their performances of the German Requiem in their collection. Then I heard it again but naturally the solo part only. Beautiful but that didn't make me go back to the whole work. Last year I heard the whole work on the radio. I really liked it this time. As a Brahms lover, I was a little ashamed of myself for not liking the German Requiem and now I felt a little relief and comfortable! Some time ago, I happened to come across a performance that intrigued me. Otto Klemperer/Schwarzkopf/Fischer-Dieskau. Wow, how great is this work! And today I come to dear Dave Hurwitz page to see what he thinks. Oh my god! What a shared experience. Every word was familiar to me. It was as if someone was describing my feeling and experience with a very sweet and precise language! And what was the Dave Hurwitz's final choice? Otto Klemperer? Oh my god. It's incredible. This episode has a different meaning to me. Absolutely perfect. You are great!

Since I first heard it only about four years ago, I have thought Ansermet's recording better than any other. And the sound of French speaking Swiss choirs is, oddly, something to behold - nothing like the warbling French choirs, which tend to sound like something out of the UK from the dawn of recordings.

I love Kubelik live in Munich, although Mathis sings far too loudly. It's a fabulous performance.

The performance that for me avoids the qualities that you point out as unsavoury is the early recording in mono that Shaw did, with faster tempi and more dynanic musical profile overall. In fact, that recording truly is thrilling compared to the drudgery of later recordings. I wish that it had remained more readily available over the years! Even Shaw's own later way with the music lost that grip on the work.