My D'Angelico Boardwalk had that stupid bridge "area" buzz too, and it was driving me crazy! I thought it was somehow the frets at first, but it was also doing it with the open top 3 strings, so I knew something had to be wrong near the bridge. Then I saw your video, and found a roller bridge online with the correct string spacing and radius (14) and mated it to my existing studs. The results worked perfectly, and it even looks better than the original. Thanks for sharing this video (even all these years later... loll)
Thank you John Cooper! I found this very helpful. I just put a roller bridge on my Epiphone Flamecat and needed to learn how to fine tune it. I did not know about changing the saddles on the Roller Bridge to match the Tunematic. now I will go back and change them. BTW the intonation was very close on my original setup. It was good to wee the comparison between the two bridges. very well done. Keep it Rockin
Just got my replacement pots, input jack and volume tuner pots My fall apart Riviera ! It is spanking brand new since you did this back in 2010 or so.Great Job ! we not the only ones John.
I know this is an old video, but I installed a roller bridge on my Riviera P93, just as you did and saw barely any change in tuning stability. The "miraculous" change came when I installed the Brick's BiggsFix mod to the Bigsby itself. The Bigsbys on these guitars are the "licensed" versions made in either South Korea or China, depending on the model. The hold down bar is supposed to roll freely, and on genuine American made units they roll fine. The licensed versions have plastic bushings that do not allow proper rolling and that is the main problem with these units. The difference after installing the BiggsFix was night and day. I am shocked by how well my Riviera stays in tune now with even aggressive use of the Bigsby. So, in summary the BiggsFix and a good roller bridge will make the vibrato totally useable. Great video, sir. Thanks!
Hi, John! I have been searching for videos like this, in order to learn how to improve the sound of muito guitar, and I really liked your video. I bought a roler bridge like yours, but I was affraid to assemble it the wrong way. You gave me confidence to proceed on my project to make a whole new setting on a MES335, similar to your Epiphone. Greetings from southern Brazil!
Hi John! I don't know if you will see my comment, but as a new guitar player (well, trying to become one;)) this video went a very long way in helping me understand some things that otherwise would have taken a very long time to learn! Thank you for taking the time and effort to educate and share your knowledge, it is very much appreciated!
Thanks. It's so nice to have a review of guitar gear that is done using sound experimental methods. I can watch this video and walk away w/o too many questions or none at all about the two bridges. I really appreaciate your scientific approach and methodology. Thanks again.
I GOT THE WIRE BUZZ TOO! 😃 I thought it was a high fret, drove me insane. Thanks I'll be changing my jb355 to a roller bridge, either this one or the shaller b33.
My buddy gave me that guitar a year ago! I really love it. I have a 74 Les Paul custom and Strat but it is really a very nice guitar. Love the P90's. Thanks for the tips.
Thank you for making this video, and fair demonstration. The nut also affects tuning stability. When changing out to a roller bridge, you'll get better results by swapping the nut for a graphite nut. There will be a slight dampening on open sustain, but worth the perfect return to pitch. The slots should be cut slightly larger than the string gauge, and the slot break angle is critical.
Nice video. I have been thinking about putting a roller on my Epiphone SG as I have installed a Bigsby B5 to it. This was a big help in my decision making process, thank you.
Thanks Dude for that very thorough analysis. I just put a cheap Wilkinson copy roller bridge on my Gretsch g5420t and there is something that feels good about it plus the locking/post feature allowed me to get the intonation on my low E just right. There seems to be a slight change in tone but it could just be that the cheap AOM it came with always rattled a bit.
I swapped the bridge on my Epiphone ES-345...shortly after buying it... because the stock bridge just did not allow enough travel to properly intonate (I even tried reversing the saddles that needed to move further). On top of the intonation I wanted the roller bridge to help with tuning issues from friction. This bridge was EXACTLY the right fix for the issue. Like you, I used the original posts rather than trying to extract them and install the Wilkinson posts.
Terrific video. You really took the time and I learned a few things. I came across it because I have an Epi Riviera Custom P93 on order. I like the fact that I can change out the bridge WITHOUT changing the posts. I'm no luthier. I may or may not change the TOM bridge.
I did that same mod to mine and it made the guitar sound far too tinny, so I put the original bridge back on. Something you may not realise is that on a high gain amp setting, using the Bigsby causes friction over a conventional bridge, which gives easier access to the elusive harmonic feedback. That suits my playing style down to the ground.
Thanks for sharing your video. I've watched it before and think that your upgrade was useful. It's been a few years since you did the roller bridge switch out on the EPI Riviera P93 and as a friendly suggestion it may have been helpful to add a roller nut and possibly a string butler... Those additions might produce the best results for this type of set-up as it would provide both movement and return of the strings so that the guitar may stay in tune for longer. The purpose of adding a String Butler would take tension off of the angle of strings from the nut to the tuners.
Very useful. Not many places to see how a roller bridge may or may not be a worthwhile upgrade. At least now I have some idea of what to watch for. Thanks!
Good video Sir, it helped me understand some sometimes confusing contradictions on other vids. One comment though; the black adjusting screws are more properly called bolts. The nut is the usually octagonal part that threads onto the bolt. In this case the tapped holes in the body of the bridge serve the same purpose. Sorry but I'm a retired teacher. Still bravo on a clear and concise lesson.
Thanks for that. I received one last week and had visions of tools and centre punches and drill bits and vernier callipers and on and on. Looks like you don’t even have to change the strings!!! Awesome.The reason I’m trying a roller is because this particular saddle thing won’t let me go back far enough to get intonation. I even flipped the saddle thing over. Just..... grr not quite enough. G string of course.
thanks for the very useful video! I "went out on a limb" and ordered one wilkinson roller bridge since I had problem with string breakage on my epiphone casino "Lennon inspired".... now im from Europe, and I think these are metric system proportions... sooo... ill post you guys how it went... hopefully fine and dandy :D
The Floyd Rose bridge is easy, you just have to tune the strings in a specific process. You can't start in the middle or skip a step or you'll be chasing your tail forever. I appreciate the thought put into your experiment. You read my mind..or I read yours since this video is old..when you said you needed a robot to strum the guitar for the sustain test!
I got a Mighty Mite BM025C roller bridge, it is a direct replacement for Epiphone, is available in chrome and gold, the adjustment screws are on the outside, just like the original Tune-O-Matic and the rollers are captive (don't fall out) . Worked perfectly and less trouble with the intonation.
I also have a Riviera P93, which I love, and just ordered a roller bridge in search of better tuning stability. While this is a quick and easy swap out I think upgrading to locking tuners is going to achieve more. Not to mention it will make it easier to put strings on. Unfortunately with the stock tuners being the traditional style I will have to drill out the holes to install new ones. Something I am not looking forward to but will do to make the guitar better. As things stand now I don't even use the tremolo. I push the bar back out of the way and forget about it. Looking forward to actually being able to use it without going out of tune when I breath on it.
That thing you described in the first 2 minutes about flipping the saddles around seems common on these type bridges. I've had 2 of them and had to do the same. It's as if the final assemblers have never intonated a guitar.
A well thought out and executed demo. Your spectrograph-over time display was really useful. I agree it's very difficult to draw a useful conclusion since you can't really perfectly match the strum each time. I have a Gibson ES-335 with a Nashville TOM and Bigsby that is simply unbearable to keep in tune. If I bend a note or look at the Bigsby it goes out of tune. I've decided to fit it with a TonePros Roller bridge. I am hoping I will see more dramatic positive results.
thanks for the help. i noticed the neck was bowed down. once i got it straight then i was able to get the intonations right. i use a planet waves pedal tuner with a strobe function on it. i would get the harmonic on the 12th fret and then press the string down onto the 12th fret and adjusted until both tones were the same.
Great video's. I watched all the electronic upgrades, and soldering video's too. Great tutorials John. MY QUESTION: Would the Wilkerson Roller Bridge be an effective upgrade on a non-vibrato Epiphone L.P. also? Thanks, Paul
I'm waiting for my Bricjz Biggs Fix to arrive in the mail. I'll put it on my Epi Wildkat.Which has the B70 Bigsby. In the meantime, I did slacken strings, remove the stock roller that presses the strings down, I then reinstall roller with strings running above it. Doggone if that hasn't eliminated the chronic tuning problem. But now theres inadequate downward pressure to keep strings in saddles if vigorous strumming or picking is employed. So the Bricks Biggs Fix is the answer.
@@rutiger6901 totally. I installed the BiggsFix in my Gretsch past week along with the softer spring from BiggsFix and it works way better and also stays in tune like a charm
Tuning stability can be greatly improved, with proper tuning technique. What has work for me is to tune just a bit flat, to just in tune. Then starting with the low E, pick the string, then do a gentle dive and release, when the tremolo returns to it's natural state tune the string. Repeat as necessary to get it tuned. You should now be able to pick the note or strum the chord, then use the tremolo and as long as you finish the tremolo from the dive, it should return to tune. Repeat this procedure for each string. I find this technique works best with roller bridges.
great video thanks!!!!!! im switching the tom on my sg std.... just put on a vibramate and bigsby and i see that with the tom bridge, the bridge and posts moves when you use the bigsby not good....
Nice information, I recently put a roller bridge on my 355 w/ a Bigsby, it stays in tune much better. You may want to purchase a StringRay to help re-string.
I have the same exact guitar and I'm modifying the pickup and the bridge as you did. I figured for five hundred bucks I'd get a beautifully crafted guitar with a genuine Bigsby on it in a semi hollow body design. The pickups suck but I never really thought about the bridge until I saw your video. Somehow I believe that with the roller bridge more string comes into contact with it as opposed to the tune omatics which should hold sustain longer. The fact that you seem to like the Rollers over the Tune O's is good enough for me. Thanks for the video John!
Actually Paul, the commonly held belief is that for the best possible intonation and tone, the string should sit on a very sharp "knife edge" rather than a long section of saddle, which actually makes the string more difficult to intonate properly.
Rich Sackett They’re not long really. Bad choice of words on my part. But roller saddles create a much longer contact point that the string actually touches than a knife edge. That reduces sustain and makes intonation difficult.
Fabulous job man. I have a B5 on my Goldtop Les Paul and love it. I just bought a 335 and want a bigsby on that as well. Question : does the bigsby get in the way like a LP? The bigsby gets in the way of the knobs. On the 335 it looks like the three way is perfectly situated. Another thing. When I get very aggressive and the bigs, goes a bit out, I pull up a tiny bit and the strings go right back in tune. I lubricate every point. This is the B5. I had a b50 on another guitar and it didn’t perform as good as the b5...great video....
I have this bridge and love it. Intonating it was not as big a deal because I just slightly nudged the string out of the way and was able to loosen and tighten the screw. I never had to lift it off of the saddle at all. Something that makes this bridge a HUGE upgrade is how it can make a guitar that just can't be intonated finally be able to intonate. WORD of caution: if your bridge is already close to the body, this bridge might not work, it is taller than a normal TOM...I had to mod my guitar
thanx for the vid..........just bought the epiphone riviera p93...its a howling ballsy love machine........found the b33 at guit fetish....stew mac didnt have them......nor did gc.........under 40 w shipping not bad........unit looks solid..waiting for it to show up.....couldnt find alot of units that would work that wur gold thanx again for your helpfull vid.................next a set of grover delux tunning machines and im done mite do the pots with some duncans but thats a future thing.........got the riviera on clearance at guitar center was looking for it and just found the guitar w a 150 bucks nocked off the price it truly is a brilliant little secret........yahoo i winn for once.............
Moving the saddle MUST change the intonation of the string. You are shortening/lengthening the string, so it's impossible that the tuning wouldn't change. Are you sure you are using an accurate tuner? The change may be subtle, but it's significant. Compare your open tuning (or harmonic at 12th) with the tuning when fretted at the 12th fret. Adjust the saddle so the tuning is the same.
I just saw something you might want to try to fix your tuning issues. Re string with the strings running over the top of that front bar on your Bigsby Vibrato. It seems that sharp break is causing the problem and not needed. The strings should clear that front bar completely. The guy I watched did all kinds of abusive vibrato and it stayed in tune after doing this. He also claimed that it improved the sustain. That extra contact point of the front bar must cause problems. What I'm calling the front is the side closer to the pickups and neck.
John I liked that video but is there a way you could do one on just setting the intonation on that verry guitar? I asked because I just bought one a month ago and I'm having a royal pain keeping it in tune. Thanks in advance. Garry
Great vid, I've just bought another fixed bridge guitar, I never use floyd rose or bigsby's, I do have a few strats, but I have added extra springs to lock the bridge back. Anyhow, I dont feel comfortable with tune-o-matic bridges, I palm mute ALOT and I hate the saddles sticking in to my palm, so I'm gonna replace the bridge with a wilkinson roller, just for comfort. I was just wondering, did you find you had to alter the bridge hight when you switched? Did you have to alter the action at all?
I can confirm that installing a roller bridge can considerably reduce the noise, frustrations and annoyance you get out of a normal TOM bridge. I did that on my ES 175 (no bigsby) and will most likely do it on my semi-hollow as well, just to get rid of that annoying buzzing noise caused by the wire, which is a serious pain. As for some concerns regarding the more "metallic" sound, I haven't noticed that difference yet, actually my guitar sounds warmer than before, but that may be caused due to me switching from chrome to nickel hardware. Ergo: I can only recommend a roller bridge if you are annoyed by either the buzzing noise from the wire, want to grant your strings some extra safety, or simply prefer the easier to adjust mechanism (I don't need nearly as long to intonate the guitar on a roller bridge as I do on a TOM). One hint if you consider getting one: When you put on new strings on a roller bridge with either a different gauge or if you use a floating bridge which can be displaced, simply loosen all the saddles from the get go, intonate and simply tighten them all when done.
tip of the day: even if you change to a roller saddle, the bridge is still at an angle, wich means that the strings passing through the wheels on the roller bridge also enter it at an angle. try adjusting the roller so that it's completley straight ( if your intonation allows it ) i did it and it worked wonders. also consider locking tuners when you have a trem like this!
I, too, changed out the Tune-o-matic for a Wilkinson roller and found no big difference in tuning stability. Darn! It was only when I ditched the original Epiphone nut for a GraphTech lubricated nut that tuning stability improved significantly. Right now, I'm battling a buzzing TOM on my Gretsch and contemplating which bridge to replace it with. I'm no fan of TOM bridges.
I have intonation issues with the standard TOM on my Epiphone Dot, Does the Wilkinson Roller Bridge have more "play" when moving the saddles forward or backward, than the standard TOM?
Hi mate, I would like to know where I can buy the same set of three P 90 dogear pickups of the epiphone custom riviera model pls and on the other hand what kind of pickups can you recommend to put instead of these pickups ,(I had a problem with my pickups of the epiphone riviera due a problem with a "luthier " of my city ) , I am looking forward to hearing from you mate. Thank you very much .
Hi John, I wonder if you did try other roller Tune-O-Matic bridges ? I have to mention I tried the Schaller one which is nice but not the best : it moves over the studs and the tune doesn't come back rightly after using the vibrato. So I don't recommend it.
Awesome video man! I just ordered a wilkinson roller bridge for my squier j. Mascis jazzmaster. I hope it will work. Doesnt this bridge come with a few different studs, for use with different guitars?
These posts are also known by the names of bushings and anchors. For both the stop bar and the bridge when you buy them are always included. I personally prefer to leave the originals that came embedded with the guitar. No need to scratch or damage that part of the instrument by trying to pull them out. These parts you buy fit most of the time perfectly with the anchors you have already there. These roller saddle bridges are the norm now.
Do you find that when you bend a string, it can slide out of the rolling saddle. I have a different roller bridge and a b60 bigsby and I am always afraid my E string is going to slip out of the roller. Anyone has this type of issue with their roller bridge.
i think the best advantage of the roller vs TOM will be string lifespan. These TOM tend to cut the strings when worn, so, with a bigsby behind it, call it wire-cutter :) And as you said, its much more comfortable than the sharp saddles of the TOM.
Fun fact, you can get some set screws and adjust the radius on both outside saddles on the Wilkinson bridge with the extra holes. I think it's 14 which is great from 12-14. But you can make it 16 and up.
I just purchased a Fender HH and am putting on a bigsby with a vibramate no drill system I am looking to buy one of those roller bridges to fit it where did you get yours Thanks John
I've seen picking machines with coat hangers and weights on youtube videos. Also, for sustain, we really want the amount of loudness in the first few seconds - maybe as much as 4. Anything more than that probably doesn't matter too much. The hypothesis is that the more fixed the bridge, the more energy in the string, and the more sustain - so you might think the roller bridge is bad for sustain. I am not sure if the video proves anything except that any loss is not obvious - if it take a picking machine and a close and detailed look at waveforms, maybe it's not too significant in any case. Also, you indicated your couldn't tell much difference. Roller bridges - in my opinion are really fun to play, as they are much more responsive to your playing style.
I would intonate the roller slightly differently. I would lock the saddle down using the allen bolt before I put the string back on it. You would need to just make a best guess as to where the properly intonated spot is, but it would keep you from having to hold the saddle in the proper intonated spot while pulling the string off and putting it back on. Just a way I thought that it might be easier, or at least reduce one annoying aspect of setting the intonation.
Hey John... great comparison idea, I am wondering weather to change the TOM saddles for roller saddles on a Guild M75T/Bigsby. Some people say you sacrifice tone with roller saddles? Subjective and difficult to perceive me thinks. Oh, would probably have paid for you to use a polytuner like the Hardwire HT6... you can see all the string tunings at the same time just by stroking the strings in one sweep :) Great subjects your covering on your vids... "I'll be back"
