Thank you so much for having me & everyone who watched this podcast. It honestly means a lot to me as I have become a fan of this podcast & many of its guests. It gives me hope for the future of the world we live in to have to many like minded & unlike minded people be able to interact. No cult mentality just a bunch of people wanting to learn 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
You're an inspiration! Thank you for your honesty, integrity and for being unafraid to challenge what desperately **needs** to be challenged. The moment about Rights vs Privilege was absolute GOLD. I was on board with and felt validated by so many of the things you said. Truly, you are a pillar of this community.
Another excellent episode and stellar guest! One thing I feel like we can do now that Facebook groups and other social media is where people go to get information is try to be a little kinder to new keepers. Shaming them only shuts them down and doesn't benefit their animals. No matter how good we think our husbandry is ,,,,we can all do better. Thanks again! And if including one or two sponsored ads is what it takes for you to keep making your videos I'm fine with that. :)
It'd be useful for both older and younger keepers. Lot of older keepers with outdated practices (and lot of outdated and conflicting information online everywhere). Getting aggressive feedback can contribute to someone getting defensive and not engaging with someone's argument. If the sake of the animal is what's important, then convincing the owner is what's important -- so aggression/ anger can be counterproductive (and give the impression that the feedback intent is not to improve the conditions but a selfish indulgence from, whatever the intent really is). It can be scary to ask advice on facebook, and that's also very counteproductive. But also giving people feeedback to not be mean to others can also be hard, due to same defensive reaction. Lot of people stressed atm, and even well intention but slightly aggressivly worded feedback can trigger defensive reaction .Some people really don't have the spoons to handle much atm.
In Germany a cornsnake has to be kept in an enclosure that has at least a width and height of the length of the snake and a depth of half the length of the snake. Two snakes can go in there, for every additional snake there is 20% more space required. That's the official requirement, I don't know if anybody is ever checking except for some animal shelters that only give to new owners with big enough enclosures. For a ball python it's length of snake in width and half the length in height and depth. So no racks here for pet keepers, but I think breeders can get away with it.
STELLAR episode!!! @madbiorptiles hits the nail on the head- I was literally cheering out loud to a lot of that. Thank you BOTH for talking about these issues. We are all accountable, and need to be more honest with ourselves and with the world at large- and act with integrity to find solutions and support the animals we love so much. One of my favorite episodes so far. 👏
Great episode as always! Kamp kennon and primitive predators are 2 RU-vidrs that make very impressive enclosures for these types of reptiles. Keep up the great content
Thank you very much for watching, Michael. Glad you enjoyed! Yes, I agree, both of those creators are doing a fantastic job with the animals! It’s hard to compete with people who have incredible outdoor enclosures.
This guy gets it. I love his mentality. I love the way he looks into the reptile world. I’m sure many people hate the truth. But this guy GETS IT!! Keep speaking up about this in the hobby man! The more we promote better practices the better can grow all together! Also 💪🏽 I love Latino representation in this space!
We got parrots in California also, SF has had flocks for a while (it's zone 10). I agree on hunting invasive, perhaps use them as pet food :/ -- I used to not, thinking they should be saved as pets if possible, but money inceptive tends to backfire in many sectors, so humans harvesting them for pet trade or eating invasive as specialty menu items can incentive letting them breeding. Well intentioned, can work, but... lot of humans are sorta sucky when money is involved. There's an articile going into the hurricane myth and concluded, iirc, that it was likely mostly a myth. Is there not species that can be imported that aren't mostly via captive breeding? (e.g. the discussion about captive bred not reducing importing) My geckos/frogs are captive bred, my impression has been that's fairly typical for frogs/geckos, but perhaps that's different for bigger animals as their harder to captive bred? Frogs produce so many babies, so my impression has been if the captive bred is done well enough that it's cheaper then importing, then it does stop the import trade? With education, people learning that import means worse off animal and poorer experience, I think that's helping those listening to that education to not get imports. Change can be slow. Getting imports banned from reptile/pet stores would probably be beneficial for that. Tho, aquarium coop guy does have a video mentioning this in fish -- his argument, iirc, is that sometimes buying import is better for the local environment because it encourages them to keep the natural environment for the animal, e.g. it's not about helping pay the people (tho... perhaps it should be more about paying a living wage if there's are these benefits to importing.) So many things aren't really studied well, and sometimes environmental stuff can be suprising (like how plastic one time use bags can be better then a cotton reusable bag). Freedom vs Right: Been thinking a lot about freedom of speech, and how it's very important for journalism and rights, but also lot of people atm obsessed with freedom of speech end up protecting hate speech, which ends up encouraging laws and activism that takes the right to life and health care and to live a okay life from other people. The sheer amount of hate I regularly see against me and my community def makes my life harder, and likely will shorter my life from the stress. As a society, absolute freedom is not good when that freedom ends up harming another person or thing, that's an issue. So, I think the talk about freedom needs to shift into something that more balanced with the harm, that acknowledges something is good and can be very important, but can also be very harmful in absolute/when poorly used. So, maybe freedom works in that as with other freedoms, it needs to be balanced to reduce harm. But harm is subjective, people can claim something as a harm that really isn't-- like arguments against lgbt is portraying lgbt folk as harmful for society, vs argument for lgbt is letting us have the freedom to be ourselves. "selfish" -- I think that's important to acknowledge, this is selfish, vast majority of people engage in a lot of selfish behaviour -- but in that selfish behaviour, we can try and do engage in it a way that minimizes harm and is hopefully net better for society (selfish hobbies can improve mental health, which can reduce the risk of harm from poor mental health, etc). Forgot what was said that triggered this thought, but does the reptile community really need big breeder operations of large animals? A lot of big reptiles need a lot of space, and that's hard to make economic and contributes to racks and poor care. If we prioritize our pets being able to engage in natural behaviour, mating, and in some case, raising young, is core/natural behaviour for nearly all animals (pandas is a bit debatable). But many hobbiest, tmk, do not provide that (outside of maybe dart frog hobbiest?). If in egg layers that don't care for their eggs, eggs can be culled or used as feeders (and so can young animals-- at least for frogs, there's debatable if any intelligence and emotional capacity difference between typical feeders and froglets, so logically if not any health concerns with using as them feeders, they could be... but emotionally, that can be hard limit to use an species of animals seen as a pet as a feeder understandably). So, if hobbiest, particular of large animals, were encouraged to have arrange breeding opportunities for their pets that egg/babies can be culled or sold/rehomed (e.g. are desirable species to have more of), could that eliminate the need for big sellers or is there too much market desire? Raising young is typically more difficult then raising adults tho, and can take more space -- tho could have have those skills and reptile shops who can take in eggs to raise.
What's interesting about Florida and the burms, is that a study was done(god I wish I could remember who), but they determined that 80% of the pythons found, shared DNA with the breeding project that the zoo had. It's worth looking into at least. And also, iguanas have been documented coming into Florida since the 60's. Food for thought is all.
When you said "enclosure size" you made me so happy! I really want to get a bearded dragon, but first I'm saving up to buy the biggest enclosure I can, at least 6 ft long, but 8 ft would be better. Even a little "pet lizard" deserves to live it's best life. (Don't even get me started on rack systems. I start foaming at the mouth.)
@@DM-ks1pj You're probably right, but maybe reptiles shouldn't be so cheap. There are tons of them out there that need homes already. Some day I think we'll look back at racks and consider them in the same class as puppy mills.
It looked aggressive and abrasive from the title, and it didn’t fail to deliver. I agreed with most of the points here, but I can’t agree with all and I think that this is acceptable. Yes, reptiles can be intelligent, and some like crocodilians and monitors are more or less like many mammals. Having experience with field herping is paramount and gives you another perspective on how those animals live and experience the world. Now that I have downsized on keeping and concentrated on herping, I see the animals differently. I don’t have any issue with keeping of course, but I keep the ones I can provide for more comfortably. As for the invasive species, any human activity that involves long range travel has the risk of bringing invasive species. In the importers’ defence though, they didn’t exactly know what they were doing, as there were no data about something similar before. For better or worse, humans will choose what cuts costs more and maximises profits, if they aren’t accountable for consequences. This applies to any industry though, not only reptiles. Florida is a pretty unique case though. First of all it is a major pot for one of the largest and most economically prosperous countries in the world, with massive trade happening there. Second Florida is or was particularly big on protecting individual rights, and is inside a country that is already significantly more regulation averse than the world average. Also not all invasives are equally destructive. Iguanas aren’t that difficult from what would happen in the Caribbean and there harmfulness has been contested. It is just that many rich inhabitants there find them disruptive and maybe most don’t like reptiles anyway. Likewise cane toads are hunted, just because they poison owned dogs, another disruptive species, which are oppressive to other animals more than any herp. Not all invasives are as serious as burms for example. Also, keep in mind that invasion biology became a contiguous discipline just in the 90s. There may have been local concerns about invasions in the past, like the brown tree snakes in Guam, but awareness was low.
Please have someone on to defend rack systems. Not all systems are created equal, and some species do very well. We can’t just alienate good breeders because there are bad ones.
Keeping reptiles is a privilege, not a right. Which is why our ability to keep them is always under attack. These animals don't exist to pay the bills and lowering standards to make it more profitable isn't ethical.
So shud I stop keeping reptiles I think the same way u do I have a few snakes and lizard but take the best of care for them and enclosures are absolutely big enough compared to there body length but I try my hardest to mimic natural settings for the best health fr my reptiles but then I get to thinking like shud but they just be in the wild unless I’m trying to conserve a species
@@AnimalsatHomePodcast yeah thanks for the info I always wanna progress with the husbandry for my reptiles amd learn and give them the best but it’s always gonna be in the back of my mind that they will be best in the wild
I agree with the reptiles not being as easy but I took in stray kittens abandoned by their mommas when I was.. idk probably 8? And a dog that was dumped on the side of the road at like 12. I've grown up with mammals so mammals are easy for me. But if you dive into certain animals and grow to care for them you can start to understand other animals as well. I think with time and passion you can learn to better understand any animal. Though I'm pretty sure my arachnids don't have as wide of a range of emotions as my mammals or birds
I love what he says 100% but it does negate it a little when you say I won’t show you my enclosures because they’re too small. I’m not hating at all but I wanna just add that it’s a better practice to keep less animals and keep them properly from day one than to get a bunch and then aspire to improving their enclosures which may or may not ever happen. The conversation is great and needed but we need to back that up by example. I.E. this is how we should be doing it and here are my animals that are being kept properly. That’s all I’m saying.
And I agree 1,000 percent. The reason why my enclosures are not up to my own standards is because when I got into this I had the idea that tubs were great so I started collecting. Same thing with some of my lizards. So by the time I raised my own standards I already had the animals so now I just have to catch up with the animals I already had
I have a three and a half year old male Asian water monitor. I got him at a month old and 15 inches long. Now hes 63 inches long, 14 pounds and still growing. I converted my largest of 3 walk in showers to be his house. Its 6 feet by 3 feet and 8 feet tall. More than large enough for most monitors.... But absolutely nothing for even a smallush asian water monitor whos 80% grown......Let alone a full griwn large 7 or 8 foit male... Do now Im converting a 12x15 foot bedroom to be his new home...As a 6x3 for any monitor over 5.5 feet is jyst cruel.. The whole room must be water proofed and sealed for easy clean up and no leaks. A deducated water line mush be installed...flooring will be redone....the walls will have rockwork ect. Im hoping every single thing can be completed in the 5 to 8k range and give him a beautiful forever home Again mines smallush...likely maxing out at inly 6 feet and 35 pounds Whereas normal is 6 and a half feet and 44 pounds and massive is 9 feet and 100 pounds Thats what it takes........Even an 8 by 4 set up is cruel for a 7 foot water monitor The black thriats as well xan be 50 pounds and need a minimum 8x8 foot room
I appreciate this guys passion and clear love of these animals, hes also very brave to state his stances and views publicly like this, however i listen to this guy talk lot on the "Reptiles With" podcast... He is knowledgeable about certain species because of his experience and research for sure, but ive also heard him express strong/controversial views and opinions on things that he, self admittedly, is not knowledgeable about. Even going on to say he will fight people online over some of these topics he doesn't fully understand. Couple that with his very closed-mindedness when it comes to taking a neutral stance or hearing other points... I just dont trust his judgement. I don't trust his basis for decision making. And i dont trust his maturity. This is probably not an ideal person to get your facts from. Not that everything he says is just blind zealotry, some of it is good information. But im not comfortable with even facts from the wrong mouth.
I am not the news nor do I say im here to be someone to follow. Do your own research & make your own opinions. Ask me WHY I see things the way I do. I am easy to reach & might be able to give more on why I feel strongly on some subjects. Fighting? Only time Ive said those things has been over animal abuse &/or people who do horrible things & I stand by that. If I admit that that I am not knowledgeable on a subject. I can still have an opinion on that subject which is subject to change with new information. I am not good at taking neutral stances especially in this community. Right now, as we speak if you watched Chimp Crazy or Tiger King just know there is a new show which will revolve around Tom Crutchfield, The Pet trade, & it’s darkest secrets which I have been openly speaking about for a while now.
@@madbioreptiles I Don't think anyone would argue about having strong views regarding animal abuse. I think we all feel strongly about that. However some topics do have grey area, right? Like there's some things where there is 2 sides to the story, and you may give a "strong opinion" on a one sided perspective. Its perfectly fine to have feelings and opinions, even on things we don't have all the information for. We all do it. But to vehemently attack/argue/project based on said opinion without hearing all perspectives and facts can be in bad taste.
@@acaciaballpythons some topics can absolutely have a grey area. A lot of the topics I am passionate about on our podcast are based on science. Often basic biology ignored by opinions spread through social media. Others are fear mongering that happens in the community leaving facts out to raise $$$$. So I cant defend myself if I dont know the exact views you are speaking on as those are the only 2 I am strongest about.
Homie you have to keep the first mamba. I respect the anti-venin research & in time you will supply so many animals to them but your first baby mamba needs to stay at the facility. Name it Brian, for Brian Scalabrine; the white mamba.
I thought Chuckey was a real one for this. Calling out the BS. Except when it got to youtubers everything was ok. He actually praised Chandler. All these youtubers will pretend something bothers them but won't name names. We all know who theyre talking about but when the name gets brought up they have nothing but good words. Realizing that, Chuckey is a clown like all the rest.
Kudos for addressing the whole "Emperor's new clothes" nonsense that goes on with invasive species in Florida!!!! And kudos for pointing out claiming to care for animals versus actually doing things that are about caring about animals.
I don't like the whole invisible ark concept much but I've never heard anyone refer to it for species like corns, balls, etc. Also a little confused by your definition of "right", if you think rights are a real thing. *Anything* can be taken from you; so is nothing a right? I mean, I don't like it when people act like we have an inalienable right to keep anything we damn well please without any regulations, but your definition there seems pretty wacky if you're being literal.
Actually, not everything can be taken from you (I.e., Man’s Search for Meaning). But, I understand your point. The typical list “inalienable rights” can be revoked, I live in Canada so I’m probably much more familiar with that process than you are if you live in the USA. The point of that section of the discussion is the freedom of speech and the “freedom“ to keep pet reptiles are not equivalent as far as I’m concerned.
@@AnimalsatHomePodcast I'd actually disagree with that, given enough generations of indoctrination and propaganda in a closed system. It's a thought experiment but so is a lot of the discourse around rights (cough, Rawls).
I think he’s a very smart keeper but a little narrow minded or with blinders on regarding imports. Nobody is referring to ball pythons as an invisible ark. Some may, but that’s really not genuine. When breeding in captivity does impact endangered species is not for the animals in the wild, it’s for the knowledge of the animals with posterity. The rates climate change and deforestation are occurring, many of these animals will only be available in zoos in the coming generation. The amount of animals imported for their leather is far, FAR higher than importation for pets. (Animals like ball pythons excluded, but many other monitors and pythons are included in the skin trade). So while it feels easy and convenient to villainize live animal importation, it’s low hanging fruit and a very minor factor in a much larger issue. While I have opinions about keeping animals in the wild, I recognize my own desire to keep would not exist without wild caught importation, and I live with the decisions I’ve made that led me to keep them. I find it a little arrogant/gatekeeping to immediately assume that my keeping of wild animals is somehow ok and necessary, but no one else should do it.
That was all “whataboutism” arguments like many others like to argue to try to ignore the problem at hand. Deforestation,climate change & many other issues are not the reason for captive keeping. These animals are not only going to be in Zoos in fact Zoos work to keep these animals in the wild by not only educating but also bringing animals back to the wild & conserving land which is NOT what the pet trade does. For example, I am a zoo keeper who focuses on crocodilians & this year some of the Orinoco Crocodiles we hatched are going back into the wild in Venezuela. So we do have them in captivity but our goal is to restore that population. We don’t have the mentality of “We must keep animals in captivity because of climate change this is the only place where they will live” no zoo thinks that way lol. So that already is incorrect. Now you are ignoring the problem at hand by pointing somewhere else “whataboutism” . Does leather affect populations? Sure. Is it worst? Maybe. That does not change the fact that poaching for the pet trade in the way that we do is ALSO bad. It proved nothing. I am not saying that me keeping animals is ok & necessary & other peoples version of this is not. Im saying that if more regulations cane along I wouldnt care one bit. And that while keeping I want to help the animals in the wild. I want to protect the animals I keep in the wild. I think we should give more & take less. I think as a community we need to stop the lies of “its for conservation” or “its bc of climate change” or “its the only way we get to save them” because it is not true. As a man in that field I can tell you there is a lot more being done than keeping animals in cages. There are habitats being protected. There are scientists studying these animals in the wild. My girlfriend is an amazing ecologist herself. My argument is not from just random thought or word of mouth. Its from experience. Instead of poaching animals for boxes we should also put that energy into protecting them & not just say “we are”
@@madbioreptiles it’s not whataboutism it’s reality. The reality is that you yourself are a keeper of animals that came from the wild, and work as an educator with animals that were wild caught or from originally wild caught animals. There’s a ton we can do for conservation. And a ton we should do. But I bristle when someone says “do as I say, not as I do.” It’s disingenuous. You won’t even show your enclosures because they don’t meet “your standards.” It just really comes off as grandstanding, bud. I’ve had biologists refuse to come on to my channel because they feel the Herp hobby is damaging in a lot of the ways you do. Except I am actually interested in their arguments because they walk the walk and talk the talk. They didn’t keep captive Herps because of their views on captivity.
@@madbioreptiles I’m not arguing for lax standards of care. Quite the contrary. But my eyes rolled completely out of their sockets when you started lecturing about imports. It’s hypocritical. Full stop. We can argue for reform. But as I mentioned earlier, not whataboutism, that reform of the pet trade importation without reform on the skin trade and without reform on habitat loss and deforestation is absolutely pointless. It’s not whataboutism to point out that we exist in a connected ecosystem and economy, and other policies affect the topic at hand.
@@LetsTalkHerpsIt is whataboutism when your rebuttal to my argument is to point at a whole different problem instead of defending the topic at hand. I do keep one animal from its native range that was gifted to me. The rest are captive born & wild caught invasives lol.
Those restrictions are impossible for anyone not in florida, the smallest crocodilian if male gets over 4 feet and its hard to know when they are babies. A thousand hours is ridiculous. Hardly anyone gets to work at gatorland. I dont agree with you on lots of points you made.
That is THE point. MOST people should NOT have crocodilians as pets 4 feet or not. 4 feet of a crocodilian CAN cause serious damage. Not only that but 90% of people do not have what it takes to care for ANY crocodilian. I think it is the perfect way to filter out the people who will not put in the work to work with them. It will filter out to people who do not have the means & only want an animal in a box. It protects the animal from people who think they should own anything they want. Animals are a form of life & should be seen as such. So yes. I am against most people keeping them. Making it harder to get brings the people who REALLY put in the work to get them. Filters out the low quality keepers.
I don't think stating that most people aren't equipped to handle crocodilians or large monitors or retics is really wrong. Even the Florida level restrictions aren't possible for most people with most species. I might think his hours requirment is excessive, and I'd favor caging inspections and standards over the hours but really, no, most people can't manage a dwarf caiman, let alone the bigger species. I've seen 12-15' long gators along the coast--even with really minimum standards like requiring a cage as long and as wide as the gator is long, how many people can manage that?
im glad he brought up the cult effect from the members of usark something we spoke about before , but hes totally right usark doesnt stop the negativity at all .
