Me casually waiting for King NIdhogg's reaction to Nemesis's rection to King NIdhogg's reaction to Nemesis's rection to King NIdhogg talking about WASD.
I've optimized my camera control with a Nintendo WiiFit balance board. Now with my 700dpi I am able to have constant vision of my champion reacting to nothing in the entire game.
well done nemi i really appreciate how he apologized in the beginning and noted the criticism he got in the last one. Also really like how he developed well thought out points. I enjoy watching content like this where people can try to understand different points of view and improve as humans.
Just an extra point to sensitivity thing: The reason you're able to use low dpi in fps's is that when you get good at an fps game like cs, you don't need to move mouse around as much. Optimally there would be no flicking as you should know exactly which corner the enemy might peak at what time. You just need to be able to position your mouse in such a way that the enemy walks into it. This is simply a knowledge question which allows you to be more efficient with your mouse movement. The same concept would apply here with you being able to use a lower sensitivity simply because you don't need to move the mouse around to the edges of the screen as much and can focus being more accurate with the micromovements. Just like in an fps game.
I think the point about pro players trying to optimize everything slightly misses the point, and I'm going to actually use the concept of local extrema from optimization theory to try and explain it. If you are trying to maximize your height on a mountain you will keep climbing up until you can't go up any more. At that point you might try optimizing by standing on the pebbles to get a few more inches my perfecting your approach to climbing the mountain. However, you may have reached a false peak, where you need to go down for a while in order to climb to the actual peak of the mountain. When designing optimization algorithms this problem is often solved by adding some random large jumps down so you can get unstuck from local maxima. This would be similar to a pro player trying something completely new and trying to improve it and see if it can be better than the old approach. It may not be better in which case you can switch back, but trying to optimize the settings you are used to will never lead you to try such a radically different approach as WASD keybinds and evaluate if they are better or worse for you. TLDR: Optimizing the hell out of the setting you use through minor tweaks and trying to increase repeatability (by measuring your setup like dopa) will never lead you to try radically different options (like WASD) that could be better (or worse), so it might be worth it to occasionally try a totally different setup for a bit and see how it compares to what you are used to.
Sure, but it's not like this is a new setup. There are a lot of rts and rpgs that use this (or similar) keybindings and lot of players that have migrated from those to lol. I can count myself between one of those and the first thing i did was changing keybindings to wasd to camera, numbers to spells and qe to summoners (this was waaay back in the day). The thing is... it's awful. Lol requieres lot of camera movements and good reactions. It's the same principle as why a lot of WoW pvp players tend to bind movement/camera movement to mouse and not wasd when in combat. It's way better to have one hand for spells and another for movement/camera, that way you won't trip over your fingers when a fast change of camera position is needed while you cast a spell or a combo. Again, it's not like Nidhogg invented this setup; people grew over it on mobas the same way high dpi replaced low dpi on proplay. Either way, while qwer and mouse for camera is the "optimized" setup for mobas, go with what you feel comfortable. There are people that play with low dpi, there are some that play with wasd. That isn't what define skill.
Pros WILL ALWAYS optimize every single thing there is. Always. How long do you think it’s going to take someone who plays the game for 8-10 hours every single day to adapt to a new setup? If they could gain an (even slight) advantage from the WASD binds clearly more people would play it, but they don’t.
Your example makes sense but funnily enough... is the one missing the point. Optimized biomechanics around videogames has been thoroughly explored. There is no false peak when talking about the standard keyboard and mouse as the current mountain. This would require some crazy new pieces of unconventional hardware that people haven't tried.
@@sidradeavethe reason you do that in wow is because it’s literally inefficient because you do not require your mouse to do anything in wow while in league mousemovement is one of the absolute cornerstones of mechanical prowess.
@@niels64545thats just objectively untrue and just shows that you dont follow much esports in general. Like tetris had a new style of playing not a few years ago because 2 people tried it after 25 years or more
It’s taking advantage of the fact that people try to find a reason why they’re bad outside of their own gameplay. “Oh that’s it! My keybinds were wrong”
Argument that I disagree with is "It's bad for new players" We've got plenty of content specifically made for new players, but we lack content for players who are decent at the game and what to be better (Content for D1+) OR more open minded content such as Nidhogg's "WASD video" So I have to say that although I won't use WASD settings, since it's way too complicated for simple player like me, I really appreciate that video, since it shows something new/unique (if it's bad or not that's up to you).
Well the thing is his video didn’t address exactly who it was for. I watched the vid before the nemsis reaction and even I thought it was more generally addressed to like “everyone”. He even said in comments just do what works for you, so kind of seemed to me it wasn’t meant for a specific group but general advice
The "Pro players do optimise, it is their job" argument fails somewhat when you look back to the introduction of F-keys to look at teammates. Because older pro players were rather unconvinced.
im curious on how does NIdhogg play champs with a lot of dashes that require tons of screen adjusments mid fights like yasuo,irelia,riven,vayne...etc, won't it be very awkward/hard to press the abilities and the camera buttons at the same time? i mean i have medium/high dpi and use spacebar to toggle lockscreen on/off with just a double tap, i think its way easier than having to press like 4/5 buttons at the same time while fighting someone.
I think part of it is just preference like he mentioned, but Nidhogg also just made a vid showing a clip explaining and showing what his gameplay looks like if ur interested
that's legit just a skill issue, imagine on irelia you need to move your cam while Q'ing a wave, E'ing an enemy etc, but your cursor cant be in the right spot bc you need to put it at the edge of your screen. Pressing all the buttons quickly can be done, but with mouse you will always be forced to put your mouse on a bad spot while playing.
@@natansme thats literally not true tho because there is a button for centering your camera. you act like you have to jump across 2 screen scrolls as irelia, when your camera should naturally be centered around the minion wave youre dashin around in already. "skill issue"
@@silentsorrowbanealright einstein now picture this, you're irelia running towards a wave and an enemy is behind that wave sees you coming and runs away.
his main argument is taking the load of your mouse arm to your left arm which does conclude in more precise clicks and repositioning your ability key fingers are also easily achievable. Most leagues players are not going to get out of their comfort zone and they dont have to. But this could end up, or not, in a better playstyle for people as he and many comments mentioned. i do not think giving it a try is harmful in any way.
10:40 i dont fully agree, cuz you cant mousepush + fight at same time unless you flick to aim after mousepush The wasd equivalent would be move camera then flick your finger to a key on your keyboard (which margin of error seems much smaller to me)
Well that would depend on the champ and team fight you are in. Since you can input commands/skills while moving during their buffer time or cast time. Of course flicking to aim is one way and it’s important to learn that too, to some extent
@@girlgaming1993majority of the time, you are readjusting your camera onto your character in a fight with space no? So it would be pretty easy to position your mouse
@@ItsVegaSama no i never do that mid fight. I only reposition on myself after using f keys or clicking the map. However, I think that doing that is probably kind of weird, camera locking on yourself mid fight flicks your camera in a calculated way, which means you must flick your mouse inverted to that the same amount.
His hand literally moves from Africa to China! If he is playing game with that mouse sensitivity, hes griefing! WSAD might be better in his case! 100% agree to you!
@@RU-vidAskedMeToChangeThis Which is why he brought up Apdo, the soloqueue legend, when talking about optimizing, or literally said at the start of the video that it’s not his intention to make his point about exclusively pro players. Please watch the video
The point that you may need to both edge pan and fight at the same time is a bit insignificant as it’s not like using WASD camera prevents you from edge panning. You can easily edge pan in moments where WASD is inefficient. The real isolated contrast is that WASD provides an additional camera control option at the cost of keyboard real estate. Virtually everything else remains the same and is irrelevant. Arguing about pro usage is an argument of authority, which is a fallacy and unimportant to the actual theoretical outcome of the debate. The real question is “What is more valuable, keyboard real estate or additional camera control options for the left hand?” - a law student sick of analyzing arguments
I doubt that valorant pros have everything up to the mouse perfectly optimized. In csgo for example, there are less abilities/things in the game to worry about. In 2018 basically nobody would ever buy the two scoped assault rifles (aug and krieg). In matchmaking games if you bought them people would ask "Why are you using the cod gun?" or something, and view them as noob weapons along with the p90. They had received any balance changes since 2014, until one update valve decided to reduce their price (I think from 3300 to 3150 and 3000 to 2750). Suddenly the pros discovered that those weapons were actually overpowered in certain situations. They even became common in ranked games among casual players, and were nerfed quite heavily. Somehow no pro players invested enough time to figure out if they were actually good until then. Even prior to that, it took one team getting really good with the UMP smg for the other teams to figure out it was overpowered, years after its last balance change. Basically, I think that it takes much more time than people realize to figure out what's actually good. I still don't think these WASD keybinds are very good though.
@@LolMojoJojo im not saying hes great like canyon or kanavi, but hes great for a non pro. his mechanics r challenger and he plays for fun and off meta like baus. i dont get why u feel the need to check my praise of king nid. who the f k r u anyway
@@LolMojoJojo ??? he's literally challenger level and has been for years he IS great you're literally just some toxic nemesis fan when nemesis himself isn't even toxic realistically they should just talk to each other
Nemesis speaks in an extremely hyperbolic manner yet he's so unchartable towards others. I don't get it. But I do hope they do a one-on-one convo. Could be good educational content.
Meanwhile edge panning and WASD are both inferior to camera grip by a ridiculous margin. Don't know how you can make an excuse for WASD binds, but for edge panning its kinda the default so every does it rather than camera grip which isn't even known as an option in a lot of the League community.
How is camera grip superior in any way, especially compared to the points brought in the video? I think its definitely fine, just like any other method of camera control, but explain, this is just a ridiculous unfounded statement.
@@walkelftexasrangerit’s definitely way better than edge panning, it’s only worse if you don’t have motor control of your fingers…as long as ur not disabled pretty much it’s definitely better
I think if you come from different games that require APM, like RTS such as Starcraft, Age of Empires etc, the WASD method is fine if you can manage it, but for a new player in general they won't even understand the importance of camera control as much.
the misunderstanding started right when nemesis didnt catch the satire of nids video. he wasnt actually making a real guide, he was making something that would get different audiences to watch (views = money) no of course i do not speak for him, but i could tell the moment i watched nids original video that it had a smug satire tone and he wasnt fully serious.
@@SoulHydron He admitted to it being a clickbait video though. The entire premise of the video is a blanket statement that wasd keys will make you better at league which is all nemesis had to go on.
16k dpi is just stupid. I don’t know why you would subject yourself to that knowing that it’s almost impossible to be pinpoint accurate 99% of the time. I hope you meant 1600 which is way more normal lol
again he makes stupid points that 800 dpi is very slow and that its the dpi fps players use. if you come from any fps to league you will be bored from how little you do with your fingers. reaction time doesnt matter in league in 99% of scenarios. the only time it would make a diffeence. the first time i climbd to diamond i did it on 150-300 fluctuating ping that made everyone on my screen teleport. reactin time would only matter at top tier levels and nemesis already said how he is not looking at thi from pro point of view. anything above 800dpi is just doing a disservice to your aim because you are too lazy to move your arm. you cant convince me that having faster reaction time wih higher dpi matters more in league where there are top tier cs pros using 400dpi with 0.75 send which in cs acts as a dpi multiplier o overall it 300dpi and yet they are some of the quickest and best aimers in a game where reaction time is the most important thing.
and then he talks about how pro players optimize everything to perfection when in reality everyone knows that that is completely bullshit because they wont even go out of their way to try new builds for champs let alone trying to learn something that isnt their comfort pick and especially changing the setup they have been using for the last 10k hours of playtime. like its completely fine that pros don't wanna switch over, they are already doing fine, but stop trying to act like they try everything to optimize their games. fps players do swap over to a new mouse whenever it comes out but its mostly because of sponsors. some players still play on zowie mice released in 2016, some players tefuse to even use 244hz, and they all agree that keyboard is the most unimportant part of your setup. for example neok, a high lvl10 player uses a 5 dollar keyboard because he just does care for the looks or the sound it makes while having a 200 dollar mouse, a pc worth several thousands and skins worth thousands of dollars as well
Dude I swear to God that you will never learn the difference between FPS game and MOBA game or you're too dense to understand the differences... LoL is NOT a FPS game. Precision DOESN'T MATTER in LoL. LoL doesn't fucking use hit scan, it uses PROJECTILES and huge ass HITBOXES that are forgiving. Oh you can land skillshot MORE PRECISELY? Cool, now tell me what's going on map? Where's enemy Jungler? What's your Bot lane doing? What's your laner doing? It's nice that you can hit skillshot, but that's the LEAST concerning thing that's happening in the game. The most important thing in LoL is REACTION and PAYING ATTENTION, since LoL is decision making and knowledge game, not mechanical game such as CS:GO.
@walkelftexasranger i mean no hitting skills is quite literally the most important thing in the game and as someone who plays bard i can really feel the impact of even missing 1 q double stun per fight which would have resulted in my team winning the game instead of losing. being able to hit more consisteng skillshots can be a difference in literally several divisions of skill. finished s12 in diamond, quit the gsme for almost a year, came back and had the same game knowledge but was stufk in silver because i autopiloted skillshots instead thinking about them, after i focused hard on thinking how to hit skills and analyzing how each player dodged in every game my wr went from negative to 90%. bard might be the most extreme example of this but either way hitting spells is very important. the best bard player says that the difference between him and evety other top tier bard player is being mor3 consistent with his skillshots, the best ezteal in the world and the case is same for many other champs as well. missing 1 skillshot in a fight can be a differnce between you getting 2 kills and getting aced or acing enemy without any of your teammates dying
@walkelftexasranger also game knowledge heavily depends on what you are playing. for example i was a top otp and and i built recomended items, website runes and barely knew half of the champs in the gsme and i was still able to hit high plat/low diamond simply because i knew my champs limits really well and i performed well on them, whereas when i swapped to maining support none of that mattered and i needed to learn about everythign else in the gsme in order to achieve the same rank. league roles require very different skillsets you can be in master without knowing what keystones do or you can be in gold while knowing every single ability and concept in tbe gsme bc ur crippled or something idk my point being is that whst you are saying isnt aleays gonna be the case, a lot lf the times mechanics will be more important than game knowledge. mechanics with minimal knowledge can get you to masters eith minimal effort while it would be much more difficult to get to the same rank with horrible mechanics and great game knowledge.
@walkelftexasranger also csgo you really underestimate decisiion making in cs. cs is one of the most beautiful games because of the fact that you can just play mind games and outplay the enemy tram in every single scenario no matter what and mechanics are there just to enablr you to perform what you invisioned. cs at higher levels isnt about aiming better than others at all as it is about being smarter about the gsme and outplaying them. at any point you. eed to be considering where the enemy is likely to be playing considering what they have been doing so far, considering what your team had been doing, then you need to think of ways to confuse them kr make the plays they are the least likely to expect and absolutely 0 aim has to be involved in any of that. when you are in a clutch you need to consider where everyone could be at that pohnt of time based on where they were when they were last spotted and then create a plan of how that clutch could be executed with variations depending of where enemies might be etc. cs at higher levels is just a mind game, and involves way more thinking than league. league is nust following rules kinda like chess. if they do this then you do that etc.
On the note of talking negatively I understand your perspective however you can talk how you wish to talk. Your brand is built on your skill in league of legends not your social networking. I have following you for years but my perception of your personality is rather sour and negative. We can only blame so much on other people and riot games. Will continue to lurk stay lit
i just think its really funny anyone would defend such a bad keybind xD like if it works for you go for it i guess, but theres a reason almost no one plays like this.
this is such a lame reaction, there isnt a singular reason people arent doing it, there a multiple and not all are negative or possible, this video is clearly not for you if you cant understand that
you mention there's a reason but fail to even list one reason why its bad. not saying these keybinds are good or bad, i don't know, but you can't just call it bad without a proper argument. it just really sounds like you are echo chambering here.
@@billy-qc9qy i find it really sad i even have to give any reasons they should be obvious to anyone semi conscious. Its bad because its suboptimal. the fact you have to move your hands up to get to your abilities alone makes it shit. certain champions, specifically ones with a lot of dashes, become really hard to play for no reason when they are already hard to utilize. the second reason is the whole idea that having a low sense makes you more accurate in league. this isnt an FPS game you want as high as you can comfortably play on. any pro that plays on this terrible setting would be better if they got used to regular keybinds. i find it really sad any of you even have to ASK why its bad. SMH. i guess its the league community though most of you fall below the average intelligence.
He or his mods are also deleting a bunch of comments so … too many people already hate Nemesis just because, I bet if it was someone else it would be pretty different lol
@@niels64545 its probably cause nidhogg has a no bullshit community, he doesnt let worthless comments into his community, yes that does create a scenario that could lead to an echo chamber but as far as ive seen hes been faithful when i used to watch him a couple years ago, if you go in and call it bad without a convincing reason you will be chased out cause you arent worth the time. i dont think either nidhogg or neme have mad a good case so far so i hope they figure it all out so the community can benefit, this isnt a fight, its a discussion, nemesis just has undesirable way of communicating imo and neither have made convincing clarifications on their opinions
