@@TwoSidesOfFI When you own your own business that is also a family business, it’s not a job, it’s a lifestyle. You talk about it at night. It is always with you. We worked 6 days a week, so just the extra free time is strange. You read that you should retire to something instead of from something, but when you’re so busy with your business, you don’t have a lot of time for hobbies. Now will be the time to try different things.
@@Chris-v4d Eric here replying...This is so true and difficult for those who haven't run their own business to understand. There is no hard boundary between work and life; work-life integration, not work-life balance! It’ll be interesting to see how exploring new things fills that space. Best of luck with it!
I’ve been retired for about 18 months. I’m 50. I’m increasingly saddened by how much time I devoted to work. I presume I have 20 to 30 years remaining. Continuing to pretend that corporate work is important would be a disappointing way to spend my remaining days. I hope you both enjoy your days of not working. They are wonderful days.
I never understood how someone can have their entire life identity to work, it’s actually sad that we’ve been programmed to be rats in a maze that we don’t know how to exist outside the maze. The BEST job title to me is retired, I can’t wait for the day when I can proudly shout that out to the world.
My mom is this. She started crying when she thinks about not renewing her nursing license. I don’t understand at all. My dad is 70 1/2 and finally saying no to side hustle projects. I am looking for any possible way to FIRE early 😅.
Seriously. If the worst part about retiring is the revelation that your identity/ existence is tied to their job, then it’s probably a very strong signal that it’s time to actually get a life at this age.
If you find a job that you are inclined to do, spent time to learn, and enjoy, it makes perfect sense. If you do something you love to do and not just something that pays the bills, you absolutely have a sense of loss when you stop.
Some of us don't necessarily love the job. We love the camaderie on the job. The service with others. We have an identity with the job we do but we don't love it. Personally I don't think I'd feel like I owed society anything after retirement or that I lost an identity. I guess you have to find purpose elsewhere.
Another great conversation. I'm four months R.E. I treated the first three months like a summer vacation; but now I feel like I need to justify any time that I "waste". I'm not quite comfortable telling people that I'm retired, partly due to guilt; and partly due to nervousness that the math is wrong. I have a handful of vague titles or adjectives that I use to describe myself right now. Leading up to R.E., I said I wanted to be a little bored for about a year because it had been so long since I have had the luxury of boredom. My theory is that boredom spurs curiosity and creativity, and that curiosity will lead me to seek new interests and 'identities'. Now when I get anxious about not having my day-to-day life planned out, I have to remind myself that the absence of a plan was in fact the plan! It's comforting to hear that this internal dialogue is common (and probably healthy). Thanks again for 'volunteering' this information.
Similarly to you, I'm 6 months in RE, and while I have no problem with "wasting" time. But I still struggle to answer people's question about being retired. It comes with the implication that I have a lot of money, which is not something I want to share outside of my immediate family and close friends. So I've been telling people that I'm on a career break, that I will probably work again in the future (lies) but for now I live on my savings. I get some nods and usually move on from the conversation. Not sure what I'll do in the long term, but I'll have to tell some kind of truth at some point.
I think the identity I struggle with the most is "provider". Spending life taking care of others, providing security, solving their problems, being "productive", while putting my needs/interests off to the side. The idea of having space for what I want feels selfish and self-indulgent. Irrational of course, but I am getting now how many irrational, but legitimate feelings we need to work through on the way to FI. Great episode!
Eric here-thanks for sharing that, and I totally get where you’re coming from. Working through all our irrational yet legitimate feelings is a big part of the journey to FI and it's nice to know others are out there thinking similarly! Glad the episode resonated with you...
Funny about how people identify with their prior career after retirement. I’ve been in Portugal for a year now and have meet many expats/immigrants and I’ve yet to have someone ask me what I did prior. Not everyone I speak with are retired either. Funny how it’s different outside the US even with Americans
Eric, at some point you might have yet another transition. You might become grandparents. :) When that happens, you will also go through another metamorphosis. So perhaps take some time and think how that will "change" your identity as well. 4 years is not that far away (the typical university undergrad).
Eric, I wonder why you are retiring. Maybe you got caught up in the RE idea? For me, last year after 40 years of work, I retired and I'd been anticipating it for years! But also, for me, my jobs were never anything I really loved.
I'm transitioning into RE. Still running the business for a few years on slow-mode and my wife and I adapt to a new life. Running the business comes along with a lot of stress and if I'm trading time I don't have for money I don't need it doesn't make a lot of sense. And, the challenge isn't the same as it was in the past. As I mentioned in the episode, how many more kitchens or showers or home offices can I design? I want new challenges and RE is feeling like a significant one. Congrats to you on the retirement, well-deserved it sounds like! -Eric
Thank for another good show. I will be turning in my early retirement notice in about a week after 30 yrs in my industry. I have a wide range of hobbies and interests so not worried about my loss of identity. I’m creating a new one!
I have relatives who are still working and are terrified to retire as they have no idea how to fill their days, so this is a conversation which needs to be much bigger! Also, on volunteering, it’s finding the right thing. I’ve been volunteering in the same role for 9 years (monthly as I’m still in FT employment for a few more years) and I love it, it’s just about finding the one that works for you and what brings you the benefit too.
Retired at 50 and now 56, so six years in. Only in the last few years have I completely lost the work identity. Hardly ever comes up and I never think about it anymore. If it does come up I just say at this point I’m unemployable and we just laugh. Give it more time…
Another great discussion! A few thoughts - my son and only child left for college 3 weeks ago and it has been a very hard adjustment. We miss him dearly. In terms of how you introduce yourself, i think however you want is fine. If i was meeting you i would be interested to know you are retired and were an architect in your career. Both are interesting to me. I met someone the other day who is 48 and retired. I didn’t think one way or another about it. We met at the pool so our discussion was more around training. The hardest part about retirement for me will be to come to terms with drawing down. I have surpassed my savings goals but don’t want to worry about money because so much of the first part of my life was tough financially. Seeing my parents struggle and growing up poor has an impact that I am not sure i will ever shake. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Love this Episode. We also became empty nesters a couple weeks ago. We are struggling with the identity idea as we reached FI a while back but still can’t pull the trigger. Reading “From strength to strength” by Arthur C Brooks as well as some of the MEA material has helped. Still not ready to give up the I am an engineer identity 😊
Thanks for sharing these resources and congrats on the empty nest! I found Oliver Burkeman's 4000 Weeks and The Tail End essay by Tim Urban to be helpful for me as I thought about the 'pulling the trigger' decision. Wishing you all the best... Eric
Perfect timing and just what I needed! Empty nester x 3 weeks now, have reduced work to one day/week (gonna just call it quits soon) and spouse retires tomorrow from a career that his identity is completely wrapped up in. Big changes. Gonna get him to watch this (I’ve been watching for years, but he never had time until now). So relatable. Great insights. Thanks!
This was a good discussion of the common retirement advice of "don't retire from something; instead retire to something." I've decided to pick a new job that is almost entirely of my own making, with all the benefits I want, so that I can plan the transition. One thing I've heard is that re-tire-ing is about putting new tires on an old car. Maybe you had sport tires or off-road tires, but now you'll have bike-tires on.
As always poignant topic! I went through the transition with kids going to college, and it definitely is not easy. First, we have reframed "empty nesters" to "free birds" - sounds so much more uplifting, and with time you will see it the same way! I just retired this year, and while I don't struggle with the identity question, I am struck by how difficult/awkward it is telling people/family that I am retired at 52. I know you have done episodes on this topic, but I was caught off guard with just how challenging it is to be the only doing what I am doing. The "lone wolf" or "free bird lone wolf" - LOL
Great discussion I really am pondering this concept of transitioning and reinventing. Such a cool freedom I plan to try one day. Thanks again for sharing your experiences.
Being financually independent doesnt mean you have to stop working. I doubt this guy will quit working. And if he does, i think he'll go back to work after a while.
Thank you for your insights. My wife and I are closing our family business after 46 years @54 (2nd generation) and going through a lot of the same thoughts you mentioned. “I think luxury is a matter not of all the things you have, but of all the things you can afford to do without”.
@@TwoSidesOfFI Exactly. Are you an architect who does dadding/husbanding/photography in your free time. Or, are you a husband working on helping to launch his kids who happens to know how to design a kitchen and make well-recorded videos?
Watching from Denmark, and while your FI numbers are not necessarily applicable to Danish conditions, your RE thoughts and content in general is very much appreciated. Thank you!
"why are you doing it?" Because you can. Glorious place to be. I always struggle with these episodes and articles and where people are talking about finding purpose, going toward something, etc. Struggle because i really cannot wait to get to this place. I am looking forward to being bored and not knowing and figuring it out. If people are going to judge you, judge 'em right back. My guess is a large part of that is jealousy. Love the show .
I am curious why you don't continue work in a semi-retired manor? This is what I do. Best of both worlds working two or three days a week with a nice self-employment income. Fully retiring seems extreme for a man in your position.
Maybe it wasn't clear, but our plan is to continue to operate our business together (semi-retired). We think about 10 - 15 hours per week will do it. This will help us transition while still maintaining a rather nice cash flow. It will also shift our healthcare premiums and expenses to the business as we wouldn't qualify for ACA given the business revenues). We're using an ICHRA to do that. More on our plans here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rUfnZsd7uTo.htmlfeature=shared
Hi guys great video. We are working until our youngest leaves university to ensure some of the costs of university (here in the UK it's £9k py for tuition fees and rent & living expenses can be another £10-12k) are paid by us rather than our sons take too high a student loan. We pay their rent & living expenses so rather than pay that as a retiree out of a pension, we can pay it out of earnt income. Did you think of doing something similar or do you not pay any of their student living & university expenses? Thanks 👍
Eric here-thanks for watching and for the kind words! Laura + I agreed to cover 80% of the university costs (tuition, room + board) for our two boys, leaving the other 20% up to them so they have some skin in the game. One of them is covering the difference with merit scholarships, while the other is using loans. For our share, we’ve saved the full amount required in 529 accounts for the tax benefits, but also kept some in taxable brokerage accounts for more flexibility and just in case one decided not to pursue a university degree.
"Identity" is a highly personal concept. I was fascinated and challenged by my profession for the first, oh, 16 years or so. The industry inexorably began to change, and over the second 16 years I became more cynical and disillusioned from it. Ever since I left, I am not the least bit interested in doing that work again - or being identified with it for that matter. Stating what I used to do for a living is just reporting a simple fact, not stepping into an archetype for presentation to others. I imagine that an entrepreneur would have a vastly different experience though.
I once asked a couple of friends “would you work an extra year so you and your wife could always fly business class In retirement. Fat Fire can be tempting.
@TwoSidesOfFI how do you not keep moving the goal posts though? Wife and I are in the messy middle I suppose, (far from J and Eric) but I already feel I'll be the type that's always worrying or not satisfied with the math working out...maybe RE/Fire folks are wired this way? Cheers to you both!
Excellent episode today! The question of post-retirement identity is especially important to those of us who spent years getting to where we are professionally and a sense of guilt that society educated us and we "need" to pay it back.
Maybe it depends on your profession and class sort of. As a financial independent "blue collar" worker for devades i don't really feel like I owe society anything.
@@guile-md6mgreally? Were you not trained/apprentice? You don’t feel an obligation to pass on your years of knowledge to the next generation of workers?
I am still 1-2 decades away from retiring but help me understand something: Both of you had a career you liked. As with many people in the FIRE movement, retiring was less about escaping work but more about achieving 100% freedom/flexibility. The downsides were loss of identity, community and somewhat higher risk financially as there as a number/goal to hit. I am curious why the goal was never to both stay involved your careers, but to also slow down? Whatever that could look like: Taking months off to travel, going to 10h/week, stay involved in consulting work etc. Also not an easy ‘goal to achieve’ (to find relevant work in your field that is both fulfilling but never a burden anymore) but I’d love to hear why so few in FIRE pursue that. Maybe this is naive thinking by me, but my general goal would be to never truly retire from a career I enjoy and that I am good at. Instead to put on ‘the brakes’ much sooner in life than a potential FI date and focus on finding work in my field that combines flexibility and fulfillment.
This sounds like a great approach potentially but in reality not that many jobs and specific positions actually allow part time or flexi work. That's kind of of what Eric's trying do do with his business... but it's not straightforward to be a part time architect business :) you could maybe take gaps between projects but once the project is on, it is going to be stressful and full time, things will go wrong, contractors need to be chased, things fixed. I personally work in IT, I was initially thinking of picking up smaller project and then taking a break between them... but really the only way to avoid stress and all the shit is not take on any responsibility that's why teaching/mentoring is so often mentioned - you share your knowledge/experience but you're not directly involved. Of course "part time" will always be better than full time - e.g. part-time nurse but when an nurse is on shift at the emergency room, it is going to be hell anyway... you know people dying, with horrible wounds, limbs cut off etc. Not sure if you can be a part-time scientist either and have a job that only involves nice things, no admin shit, no applying/constantly begging for grants, no 5 books to publish every year.... That's the quick explanation but of course everyone should explore any possible options that will keep them happy :)
Our 2nd child is off to college this fall. Both kids at the same University 30 mins away--they do come home on most weekends. I am LOVING this phase!!! One thing I didn't realize though is our food expenses is much lower...especially since the 529 account support them 9 months out of a year.
Great conversation guys. Congrats on your kids getting out of the house and starting their own lives. I am just days out of early retirement and I am expecting to have exactly these concerns. Appreciate you putting words to it.
Hi - reached FI around 6 months ago & am still working. I don’t have kids and my identity as never been attached to my job. However, I am massively struggling with what life will be like post RE. I honestly thought this year would be the best year if my life, but feel v lost and almost wish I could reverse my life by a year and still be saving in the bubble!
I can so relate to this! Saving and planning feels like a comfortable place to be as compared to the land of infinite possibility of RE. I'm excited to take on the challenge though, kaizen!
@@TwoSidesOfFI, no don’t be a loser and do all the things that EVERYONE wants to do when they retire …..which was basically everything on my list!! 🤔 I don’t want to be a bored retiree just passing the time…..I want to do amazing, fun, inspiring things with my time problem is I have no idea what is fun, amazing, inspiring anymore! As someone who is an average earner achieving FI is amazing, I am super proud of myself, just don’t want to turn into a loser on this next phase….🤣
