The FAQ is vague on their reasoning re: the digital triggers, but the "read between the lines" interpretation I have is that it was to keep costs down, and that they foresaw that most people would be using this on Switch (a console with no analogue triggers) and for games where analogue triggers are irrelevant or even undesirable (e.g. emulators, fighting games). _That said,_ I'm with you in that no analogue triggers is a blow to compatibility with not just 3D Control Pad titles but also titles on PS3 and PC! It doesn't bother me _that_ much since I don't often play games where the analogue input from triggers is used, but it's still bad for something that could be used as a general purpose controller.
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveIf they did this to keep costs down, they could have passed that savings on to us. This is a $50 controller and, with the significant compatibility issues when in '3D Pad Mode', I don't feel the cost is worth it.
At one time they teased a recreation of the Saturn 3D control pad. I'm not sure if it's still in the works, but if so it would probably be Nights compatible.
@@msd5808 The Twitter has been pretty consistent on saying they never announced a 3D Control Pad repro whenever someone posts those images that've been going around, and I certainly haven't seen any evidence they've announced it. I think you may've gotten tricked. Though that said, the upcoming Dreamcast controller repro will likely work as a good subsititute; owing to it gaining a 6 button layout and the Saturn's d-pad.
@@LonelySpaceDetective I found an old Gamespot article from 2019 showing the news ("Retro-Bit Showcases A Wave Of Sega Genesis And Saturn Accessories At CES 2019") But they were probably just showing a vintage 3D pad on display and had not made a recreation yet and later nixxed the idea due to it being a niche market (only one analog stick, large size).
I wish they’d make a replica 3D analogue controller. The same as the original, wired, but maybe with a modern style analogue stick. I’d buy that controller in a heartbeat.
I'd use an adapter translator for a dreamcast controller, that fit my hands perfectly unlike Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft of the time. The Dreamcast is the last console I ever got even
I was waiting for years for this controller to finally have something other than the Hyperkin Duke as the perfect jack of all trades emulation controller (six face buttons, dual analog sticks, and analog triggers), and when I learned that there was no analog for the triggers (not to mention my experience with four of Retrobit's digital Saturn controllers dying within a month of purchase), I had to give up. Duke for life it is. Nobody wants to make a competing product.
No Analog Triggers is a complete deal breaker especially for 3D Control Pad games or even Dreamcast use. I also preferred the earlier larger Analog Stick design they showed.
I really wish 8BitDo made such a controller. All five Retro-bit controllers I've used had a connectivity or manufacturing problem, while my many 8BitDo controllers and arcade sticks have been flawless in operation.
For sure. I sent back all my Retro-bit controllers due to sticking buttons, inconsistent responses and incredibly cheap manufacturing. The 8BitDo? Once in my hand it was like I'd traveled back to 1997. That's how Sega controllers really felt. Tight, crisp w/ well damped buttons/dpad. I randomly found my old Saturn 3D pads much later at my parent's which confirmed it.
I agree, there's something weird about the retro bit Saturn controller. The dpad and casing just doesn't feel the same, maybe they used different materials to make it? I'm definitely a fan of the 8bitdo lineup especially the M30.
Your page has given me so much love and admiration for the Saturn. I have both an OG Japanese Saturn model 1 and an American model 2 with/Fenrir for emulation. It's a shame I missed out on this console when I was playing on PS1 and N64 back in the day
I had a Saturn back in the day but was too involved in the progress of the industry at the time into 3D games to appreciate much of what the Saturn had to offer. I ended up missing out on a lot because I felt the PS had an edge and loved games like Tekken 2 & 3, Ridge Racer and Gran Turismo. Sega Lord X and the guys over at Shiro have brought me back to the Saturn and I've been loving it so much. I still have both a Saturn and a PS1 and play the Saturn easily 10x more than my PS1. I've also invested way more into my Saturn with a Satiator, Pseudo Saturn Kai and games.
My best friend was the sega boy and he wore the badge proud, I loved loaning him my super nintendo with all my games so I could get his megadrive, he had a saturn on launch day here in the UK and I was totally blown away, same when he got his playstation.
I think you managed to prove that the D-pad is exceptional, but it's really a shame the analog sticks are so tiny, and that there shoulder buttons are not analog. Still, this could be a great choice for many of us.
Funnily enough I was looking at this as an alternative fightpad, and hearing that the dpad and buttons are good and great to hear. The sticks are just a bonus and I don’t play any games with analogue triggers. I’ll be sure to pick this up, so thanks for the review!
Thanks for the honest review Sega Lord. My heart is broken that it cannot be a true replacement for the Sega Saturn Analog Pad. Especially after such a long wait. ;;
After nearly 8 years of waiting, I was really hyped for the Saturn Pro Controller, but this showing from Retro-Bit is simply unacceptable. They’re so hit or miss with their controllers and it’s especially painful to see that this is a miss.
Very disappointing company that feeds on nostalgia dumbos like us. They need to be demanded better quality especially on the firmware of their controllers...
The issue is you can't make everyone happy with a off spec controller. All controllers are built around the four button SNES layout. Retro bit made the six button layout as universally viable as they could. Yes analog triggers would have been nice but it would also have been harder to use them in this form Factor. the controller is great and I've been using it with Dreamcast via the Brooks wingman SD adapter and having a great time with it and zero issues. Also it's important to note retro bit is aware of the 3d problem and working to resolve it with a firmware update.
@@ForeverWinter1812 you just need to make your Saturn controller work well on a Saturn.. they're trying to make "everyone" happy to sell more, thats it.
@@Blehstor it does work well on Saturn. There's over 800 games worldwide on the Saturn. There are 69 3D pad compatible games. The biggest affected games outside of racing (which are less than 10 racing games) is Nights, (air breaking which I didn't know until last week) Duke nukem 3D, quake, powerslave, (you can't strafe). These issues can be fixed with a firmware update. No you won't have the exact precision and control as analog triggers, but if you only have the standard Saturn controller you would never know the difference. Also, Panzer dragoon Zwei, saga, and Burning Rangers work perfectly in 3D mode. So out of the 69 games not all of them are affected. Not trying to be mean or anything but this is not a game breaking problem that people are making it out to be.
@@ForeverWinter1812 The whole idea of buying this new controller is to make use of the analog function, if it's broken in games like Nights, then there really is no point in buying it for me. You're not being mean, I get your point, but having issues with basic games like Nights is not a good quality control sign.
so glad I got this controller...man...the sega saturn controller is an underrated masterpiece of a controller its so wonderful and smooth and so tight and precise no controller can compare bar NONE...
Thanks for the review! I had been keeping my eyes out for this controller, and I appreciate how you tried it out with so many different systems. You showed it working with PS3 games, but I wonder how compatible it is. I have Retrobit’s 8 button genesis controller, and it’s not accepted by any of the PS1 games I have on the system, and even some of the PS3 fighting games don’t work with it, which is a shame, because it’s a pretty nice fighting game controller for my PC.
I’m planning to buy one for myself and use it with my Steam Deck. Yes, I’m aware it doesn’t connect directly to the unit (I’ve struggled connecting Bluetooth controllers to it) and needs a dock to accept USB controllers. When I heard how well it works with the PC, that gave me confidence in that regard. Not gonna use it as a replacement for 3D analog though because I’m gonna use my unit for USB mostly. Hope it works with the Wingman FGC.
Thanks for this review man, I've been checking for this controller for awhile and been thinking about getting it for my PS5 to use with my Brookman converter for fighting games. My usb wired SS controller doesn't work, but I was told this one would. Sucks it doesnt work 100% with the actual Sega Saturn system though.
This controller is something Ive been excited about for years. I don't super mind the analog sticks but the lack of analog triggers is unfortunately a deal breaker for me :/ Hopefully RetroBit can learn from this and eventually put out a version with proper triggers
I think they said somewhere that the lack of analogue triggers was to keep costs within budget, so if they _do_ happen it'll likely be in a more "premium" model. Though honestly, I'd have been willing to pay even 10 more dollars if it meant full compatibility with PC titles and emulators that use analogue input from triggers (and uh, better 3D Control Pad compatibility but I actually didn't get it for real Saturn hardware).
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveIf they actually said that, I call bs. They're just saturating the market with half baked products and using initial buyers as Beta testers. I would have easily been willing to pay an extra few bucks for a properly developed product, but honestly I don't think I'll be interested by the time retrobit figures it out.
Thank you for answering the 3d analog controller question that I had when I heard the announcement. I'm staying away. Seems like it was made more for people who want a Sega like controller to use on other systems, not for the Saturn.
Can’t understand, how a company or person can put so much time and effort in a device just to miss a very important function…. My hope is on Retro Fighter and a design similar to the 3D control pad, I miss it.
I played many Megadrive Games for the first time this year and used the retrobit Megadrive Controller. I was very statisfied with it. So i was very curious about this Controller. Thanks for your honest testing. No Bluetooth, No analog shoulders and the tiny analog Sticks are the Deal breaker Here. But I'm honestly still very satisfied with the retrobit Megadrive Bluetooth Controller (:
Great review! I feel like this controller is really intended for a *very specific* user; providing nostalgia when used with games originally available on the Saturn (like playing Capcom games on Switch, PC, PS) and offering an analog stick option when used with an original Saturn console. It doesn't seem to be intending to replicate the 3D controller functionality, but I can see why that would frustrate some (or many) potential customers. Evidently the design is an intentional compromise, trying to mimic an original pad aesthetic, while adding modern functions, much like the SNES analog stick controller trend. I can't help thinking that at some point there will be a "V2" with analog triggers, possibly extending the bottom edge of the controller to give more depth for triggers, the way a PS2 or Dreamcast controller does. I think some customers would just like a Saturn port wired version (cheaper, no thick battery needed) of this with analog triggers, and would be able to live with the small dual analog sticks as they are. Or even just a 3D controller replica. When it comes to something like Daytona or Sega Rally, can you not just configure the right analog stick to be gas/brake like Gran Turismo on PS or the game doesn't allow that?
That depends on if the Saturn even acknowledges the right stick. Keep in mind that the original 3D Control Pad only had one analog stick. I'm going to assume at this point that Retro-bit did not attempt to program twin-stick functionality for the all ONE games that peripheral supported (Virtual On, of course).
I definitely enjoy it on the switch. That way I can represent the Saturn while I play. Also I know many aren’t a fan of this game but Sonic 3D Blast special stages are also completely broken with the anolog controls. Sonic starts moving on his own and you can’t stop him. I had to switch back to D-pad
Tiger uppercut. I had no idea that there were as many as 70 games that supported "3D" controls. My brother owned a Saturn, and at the time we were a little young to be working, with a single parent family, we couldn't afford to buy peripherals beyond a 2nd standard gamepad. I had no idea at the time that the 3D gamepad existed.
I own a Retrobit controller for the Switch in the "likeness" of an N64 controller and it has worked well for me. A shame that it wasn't as good for the Saturn fans :(
man you don't know how close I was to picking one of these up! It was *going* to be in lieu of the 3D analog controller since I assumed it supported all the features, *but* if it can't even do NIGHTS correctly (yknow the game that put the damn thing on the map to begin with) correctly, then what the hell are they even doing?! guess I'll boot it off my amazon wishlist and hope for a decent deal on an OG 3D analog pad. or suppose spring for the brook adapter.
Thank you VERY much for this review. Sad to see after all this time Retro-Bit majorly dropped the ball by not including analog triggers. Seriously what were they thinking??? /smh
Yeah, my personal interpretation of their reasoning (trying to read between the lines) is that they expected most people to use this on Switch, or for games that otherwise don't use analogue input from triggers. Probably wanted to keep costs down, too. That said, it's still a blow to overall compatibility with PS3 and PC titles for something that could have otherwise been a great general purpose controller. I don't play many games where the analogue input of triggers is used so it doesn't bother me _that_ much, but it's still stupid.
@@SegaLordXNah, they absolutey weren't aiming to please the PC crowd, there are too many glaring ommisions with regards to PC/switch players. The mirrored inputs make it impossible to even emulate retro games with a proper sega/saturn layout. No macros to change button assigments for common layouts for moder fighters either. D-input is gimped (still suffers from mirrored inputs). No wired mode for pc via usb-c, and no analog triggers. No way to manually turn off the controller once done playing. This is the one of those great ideas, ruined by poor execution. It should have been a one stop shop for controlling everything, but due to compromise, ultimately excells at nothing. 😢
As a Fighting Game player, I don't mind the Dogital Triggers, and I'm glad it feels smooth. I only wish it were Wired because of personal preference. Even still, I look forward to grabbing one myself one day.
I just got these, very disappointed it isn't a full wireless NiGHTs pad replacement. I'd literally pay $20 more to have the analog triggers so it could work as one. But it feels amazing and is very nice at what it does.
Wish they can bring back the 3D Controller. Maybe make a wireless version or a USB version. or an adapter where you can change the Saturn connector with a wireless adapter or USB.
Personally, I love the feel of the general Sega layout. Issue was that it’s not ideal for playing games that utilize analog sticks. I am think of getting this, though I am not using it for emulation, as the Saturn does not have any good games (Nights is alright)
I wish they just published their prototype model because that's exactly what I wanted. I'm really let down with this. If a third party makes something similar / better I might just get that instead.
IIRC they talked about how the prototype design deviated too heavily from the original Saturn controller, or at least vaguely alluded to that. My conspiracy theory is that Sega stepped in and were like "yo you can't call this a Saturn controller, it's too different" and they had to redesign it. Though that said, the recessed design of the sticks offers a durability advantage. I'm perfectly fine with how the final design turned out, but I still wonder what we could have gotten.
Excellent review thanks. Never rated retrobit stuff to be honest. I have the original saturn wireless pads and they are frustrating to use, they discharge so quickly. Every time I boot up the Saturn the pads are dead despite having left them with a full charge, 9 times out of 10 I just reach for my old wired pad.
Shoulda known Sega Lord was gonna tell the truth. Yet another exceptional vid Good Sir. I think Retro Bit needs to add software to tweak the button layout. Most controllers at such a level have adjustment software or a switch embedded to let you choose what shoulder/face buttons you'd prefer to use, but retro bit has nothing of the sort. This is essential for me, as I am using this controller as a go to for SF 6, with the Brook wingman FGC. Sounds like you could use that sort of feature for analog games on Saturn. So hopefully a fix is coming.
Retrobit has wireless saturn pads without analog sticks or dual shoulder buttons. I've gone through two of those in two years after LIGHT USAGE because the internal backplate of the dpad has a tendency to snap under any amount of sustained pressure. I've googled around and this is common. If they haven't fixed that issue, I would caution against buying this unless you're okay with having to open the thing up and superglue its parts back together.
I passed on this one, but the new Striker DC wireless and the Neo Geo CD wireless pads are on my list. I’ve always wanted to play Panzer Dragoon 2 in dual mission stick mode. The only game that supports that.
I've played that through emulation and it's terrible lol. The muscle memory didn't let me maneuver the dragon separated from the aim and I kept getting hit over and over. And I feel the dragon movement is too slow and limited with dual controls.
Thank you for this great review. It’s a shame that the shoulder pads are not working in analog mode. I know it’s a far stretch, but could it work as a replacement to the twin sticks controller?
I wanted this to be a home-run because I really like the digital Retrobit Saturn controllers. I appreciate that they look and feel exactly like the originals, but also provide flexibility to be used on other platforms. For example, I have one permanently plugged into my PC for home brew development and emulation. I have 3 more for my actual Saturn, because honestly my original controllers are pretty worn out, and the chords are pretty damn short. But a controller that doesn’t actually work for the original games and hardware.. I don’t understand. Saturn Dave was hoping it could be a firmware update? Maybe? But that doesn’t sound promising. Maybe this has another intended purpose. Perhaps they thought that the Saturn market was so small for this device, it wasn’t worth cost of analog triggers. Maybe they thought the hall-effect sensors were a draw from other gamers that are tired of shitty resistive sticks - but the Saturn 3D pad pioneered that technology 20 years ago. I own 2 of them. Maybe it was aimed more towards gamers who liked the Saturn but also want that controller feel on a modern console. Which still doesn’t make sense because the crossover has to be tiny. That Venn-Diagram overlap is like what, ten people? I might still pick one up anyway to use on my PC (yeah I’m one of those ten people). I’ve played a few modern games with the digital version, and it was basically perfect except for only having one directional control (makes me wonder if analog controls are even worth it). I want to see more from Retrobit, they are supporting a niche with a niche - but I don’t understand this product at all vs the intended audience.
idk I feel like you're underselling the amount of people who want a general purpose controller but with Genesis/Saturn-like form factor; I know I and a friend of mine wanted a controller like that and this kind of controller is great for fighting games, though to be fair I think also Retro-Bit really underestimated the amount of people who wanted this for real Saturn hardware. They have actually elaborated on why digital triggers are used in the FAQ, though not in the clearest terms. My interpretation is, well, basically what you assumed: They expected most people to be buying it for the Switch or for titles that don't use analogue input from triggers, like fighting games. I think they said somewhere it was to stay within budget as well, but I might be just assuming that. That said, I agree that it's stupid, and not just because it sacrifices full compatibility with 3D Control Pad titles; it also hurts compatibility with PS3 and PC titles! And I say that as someone who doesn't play many games that use analogue input from triggers! One last thing, I can confirm that they are aware of the 3D Control Pad emulation issues and are looking into it, though as far as I know it's up in the air whether the next firmware update will address this or if it'll be a later one, and if the problems will ever be _fully_ ironed out.
The Saturn pro controller is pretty much made for the people who wanted the Sega version of the super Nintendo controller with analog sticks. I've been using it almost exclusively on PS4 playing the Yakuza series. Digital triggers were the correct choice overall. There's only 10 games at most that require analog for precision, and they're all racing games. I've talked with retro a bit and they're currently finishing up the update that should resolve all the issues. They're hoping to have it out before New Year's.
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveI agree. It seems like retro-bit is out of touch with a greater part of the market and gaming community that is looking for a universal controller for modern and retro gaming. I would have bought 10 of these for PC, if they were executed properly.
Thanks for the review. I had pre-ordered this as I was hoping for it to be a wireless 3D circle pad, and had also planned to use it on my Genesis Minis... But those digital shoulder buttons is a huge disappointment and a deal breaker. So I've just cancelled my order. Thanks Sega Lord X, you've just saved me from wasting a bunch of money.
I was just expecting what Sega Lord had to say about the triggers and I'm very sad about the result on the Saturn. I'll see this one as my fighting controller for the PC.
I do hope that if we ever do get an adequate replacement for the 3D controller that it comes in grey. You have no idea how much it bugs me that Sega never made a 3D Control Pad in the original model 1 grey and blue colour scheme to match my preferred version of the console.
Forget the lack of analog, what peeved me the most is that the device didn't include gyro for the Switch games. That way I can't quite use it as a replacement controller I could use for both standard gaming and fighting games.
I’m probably gonna get this for my pc and switch. I already have the 3d controller pad for Saturn anyways. I do feel sorry for y’all who wanted it for use on your Saturn. Hopefully a better alternative comes your way!
They should have gone the route that Retro-Fighters did with their BattlerGCs - the analog triggers switch to digital as soon as it's converted from the GCN receiver to the USB receiver. I pre-ordered one of these and was immediately disappointed due to it not being compatible with Nights.
New outro! That's very cool :D But the recommended content creators haven't created in a while: - sega saturn dave hasn't posted in a year. - Saturn Junkyard and southernsegagent haven't posted in two years. - PlaySegaSaturn and pandamoniungr can't be found anymore. Isn't it time to update that list?
Surely a twin stick mode was essential. So it basically doesn't work worth a crap with anything 3d pad, which frankly is the whole point of the device.
So the verdict seems to be that the Sega Saturn styled controller is fine as long as you don't use it with Sega products. By the way, I've been here long enough to know that even though the ending of your video is different, the song is the same as it was a few years ago!
I miss the 2x3 layout. Don't mind at all that the triggers aren't analog. Be interesting to see if this works well with android. Okay, the 3d pad issue is kinda major. Maybe they map L/R to the right stick?
They apparently have put some consideration into using the right stick to emulate the triggers' analog input, but it's not a thing in the release day firmware. Maybe it'll be in an update.
@@SegaLordXwell I use it for my Android via a Samsung Dex dock, which gives you regular USB ports, so I can plug in the receiver and use it that way. And it works great, with the game on my moniter via hdmi through the same dock. But otherwise, without a dock or a USB C to USB adapter, there's no way to Bluetooth to it. Gotta connect the receiver in one way or another
11:41 - disappointed to say the least. I was really looking forward to this controller and supporting this company more (I love the original Saturn wireless pad and use it often while gaming on my Saturn). Looks like it's off to Ebay to buy the OG 3D controller like I originally was going to do before finding out about this device. 😔
Playing on the Saturn was so frustrating trying to get Daytona Circuit edition to work. I even remapped the controls and it still didn't work. Duke Nukem, Quake and Powerslave were fun. but not having to ability to strafe really takes away from it. I did try my Genesis mini 1. and I couldn't even get it to pair. Hopefully they release a firmware update
As someone who emulates everything this seems like a decent purchase, the lack of analogue shoulder buttons is a bit of a headscratcher though. Not a deal breaker for me though.
Does anyone else find the travel of the shoulder buttons on the original Saturn pads was way too shallow? I find myself pressing accidentally while resting my fingers on them sometimes. Not particularly often, but enough that I've noticed it.
I thought the same thing. It might be possible to replace the triggers with analog switches. The question then would be if it would work without custom firmware.
They look great. But the tiny analogs just don't seem feasible. Would have to try but I was initially impressed by the earlier revisions they showed with the larger analog sticks. I've no doubt they had good reason to ditch them for smaller ones but something about it just seems off.
I just got mine yesterday and I'm having trouble pairing it with my Switch. The manual references blue/red LEDs but the only colour I see is yellow/light green.
I picked one of these up and really wanted to like it but so far I don't. Nights was one of the games I wanted it for and it is a bummer that it doesn't work correctly for it. I have the clear blue Retro-bit wireless Saturn controller and like it a lot better.
I don't have Nights or Christmas Nights (yet), but one problem I have with this controller is that I can't get the analog sticks to work right on the Switch or PC/Steam Deck. The macro inputs in the instructions don't help, either. (Unless I installed the wrong firmware)
I'll probaby be returning mine, unless theres a firmware update to address some of the issues. I've been following the development of this since 2018. Conceptually this control pad is a great idea, but retro-bit fumbled the execution in ways that are hard to excuse with a 5 year+ head start: - Its marketed as a 10 button gamepad, but upon launch we find out its 'functionally' an 8 button controller. - The instructions contain typos, and reference functions that dont exist for this controller - No way of changing bindings to something practical for most common usage cases for modern gaming OR retro emulation - D-input implementation has been fumbled, as it allows for 128 separate inputs from a control surface - its comes with a usb-c cable/port, but can't be used in wired mode - There is currently no way to manually turn off the controller, which will reduce the longevity of the batter quicker. (Probably by design) - Dropped the ball on having analog triggers - Beta testing was poor, as there are a number of saturn games that exhibit bugs with regards to use the analog sticks. While some saturn software won't respond at all. These are issues that could and should have been addressed before launch. I would have litterally bought 10 of these if it weren't for these obvious and glaring oversights. I also would have easily been willing to pay a higher price point for analog triggers. Hopefully 8-bitdo picks up thier slack.
I wonder if this video needs an update with the new firmware updates? I have heard that they fixed the analog stick issues with Saturn titles that use the 3D Controller, and it functions as it should.
I have a love/hate relationship with this controller. Analog sticks are too small and too close together. I ended up getting stick riser cap covers and it helped some with the height but my fat thumbs are still an issue. 😅
As a quick question when you're using it on Saturn did you try using the second analog stick to see if that was functioning as the left and right triggers?
so far i it has worked for me on Saturn PC AND PS 3 . won't work for me on the switch and like you the mega drive mini would not work. the see through one i have seems to be better with connectivity and working with different formats.
