At some airports the PAPI and ILS path may not be the same because the Threshold Crossing Height (TCH) differs. The "issue" is when the TCH is higher than 50ft (calibrated for wide body A/C). In that case on short final the path can be adjusted.
Generally the ILS is pretty bad in MSFS 2020 and I would trust the PAPIs more in most cases. I remember there was one of the "handcrafted" airports...I think it was Stuttgart...where the ILS was (or maybe still is) broken for ages and people actually made mods for it.
Great video. I'm finding something very odd though, in the PMDG 737 I get a terrain warning when I follow the PAPI's, in the Fenix i get one when I follow the glideslope. 🤔
I always come in from the slight left, I was flying a cat II ILS the other day and I was too high and came in from an angle, not worth completely relying on the localiser and glideslope in msfs. The glideslope is always too high, I have to mute the glideslope warning in the fenix a320 because it always has a false positive and the localiser never aligns me perfectly. Let's hope this is fixed in 2024.
Sometimes it's even worse, both PAPI and ILS are faulty. It might be fine during a good clear day so that you could get a runway picture early during the approach, however, faulty GS might bite you if you are flying the approach in some deep IMC, breaking out of the cloud at 300 feet and you realize you are either way too high or way too low. I found this issue on day 1 and it seems it's impossible for MFS2020 to fix this anymore. I really hope they can address this issue in MFS2024.
Hmm interesting. I'm not sure who did a same video about this topic (maybe 738ng driver) months ago. In that video the verdict was the straight opposite. Trust ILS glide slope/glide path rather than PAPIs. However since than there might have been an update to the part of the sim that is responsible for both and now PAPIs are more reliable. Anyhow just my two cents, not a real world pilot, but a hard core simmer, and based on my personal experiences most of the time both are off by a little or more so I just fly in as my gut feeling instructs me, while of course trying to maintain a steady final. I usually either follow the glide path (FPV) or set maintain vertical speed between 600-800 ft/m.
Yes same!!!! I always have the 100ft RA callout above the threshold following the msfs glideslope but in real life, they are reaching 50 agl well before the threshold of the runway.
Landing in most weather scenarios is purely a visual maneuver. So in my opinion you really shouldn’t be following anything below about 300 feet. The most important thing is maintaining a good picture. With the runway constantly being at the same point in the windshield. About 50 feet over the threshold, retard, land at ref speed in the touchdown zone. You could use them as a indication but not if they are incorrect.
PAPI lights ALWAYS align with the recommended glideslope....every time, without fail. the ILS system SHOULD always align with the glideslope too. The "glideslope" is the recommended angle of descent to the runway. Usually, but not always, it is a 3-degree slope. Here, you are mixing up terminology. What you are comparing is the PAPI system to the ILS system. You are calling the ILS system the "glideslope" and that is COMPLETELY WRONG!
I'm afaird this simply isn't true. There are numerous airports where the glideslope and the PAPIs are set to different angles in real life. The fact that some airports also have their FPAs set to the same Glideslope BUT calibrated differently (the PAPIs for instance may be set for 747s flight decks and not CRJs) is also a real world factor that remains a threat and needs to be briefed thoroughly. This video is also, focusing on the issues within MSFS, which of course, is simulation and not real life and merely pointing out the discrepancies between the two due to the terrain data.
I thought Gav explained this pretty well. The ILS is the Instrument Landing System. The only part of that we’re interested in for this discussion is the glide slope. The glide slope is part of the ILS and what’s relevant for the purposes of this video. Slight terminology errors I’m sure are not misleading. In reality, the PAPIs and Glide Slope angle or approach angle are often married to the same value. Meaning you’ll be on the correct descent angle to the runway and the PAPIs will indicate the that you’re on the correct descent angle. This isn’t always the case though. Just the other day I noticed in Rhodes the PAPIs are set to 3.1° and the approach in use was set to 3°. So, there’s a slight discrepancy with the approach angle and you may see PAPI indications that suggest you’re slightly low far out. This will correct itself the closer you get and of course 0.1° difference is marginal in the grand scheme of things. Sadly in MSFS, the difference between the PAPI indications and the Glide slope indications specifically are quite a bit off in places. Thus, the recommendation is to follow the PAPIs when planning to land manually. You simply have to disregard any GPWS Glide Slope warnings to land at the correct point. This is a sim issue and not something we see in real life. As Gav says, if there’s any large discrepancies between the angle the PAPIs are set at and the planned approach angle we plan to fly, this will be comprehensively briefed and mitigations put in place to fly the aircraft safely. 👍
@@Easyjetsimpilot Yes, but "glideslope" is glideslope. The PAPI system nd or ILS system is set to a specific "glideslope". Even in MSFS. "Glideslope" is not separate from PAPI or ILS...it is the glideslope. You are usi0ng the term "glideslope" incorrectly. Yes, the PAPI system may indicate a different "glideslope" than the ILS system indicates. IN MSFS the "glideslope" that either the PAPI or ILS systems indicate may or may not be correct, but it is all "glideslope". It isn't "PAPI or glideslope"! It is whether or not the glideslope indicated by the PAPI or ILS systems is correct. Both indicate glidslope.
@@alhefnerI’m so lost with what you’re trying to argue. Ok let me keep this simple. The PAPIs indicate one approach angle. The glide slope of the ILS system radiates another approach angle. We can call this the glide slope because that’s what it is. The glide slope of the ILS AND the PAPI indications are not always the same. They usually are (in real life and in the sim) set to the same value. Occasionally the PAPI approach angle is set differently to the instrument approach angle you’re going to follow. In the sim, there are numerous issues where the indicated or radiated glide path from the glide slope antenna differs quite a bit from that to the PAPI indications in the scenery. In this case, it’s suggested you simply follow the PAPI indications (maintain 2 reds and 2 whites) to land on the correct part of the runway. This should work in most cases but of course occasionally you may even see PAPIs located at the wrong place. So, a bit of judgement is required when you’re in the sim on what indications you follow. I really don’t know how else to say it. 🤷🏻♂️ EDIT: The glide slope of the ILS is definitely separate to the PAPIs. At least they are in real life. I’m fairly sure they are in the sim too…otherwise we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
