Americans (I'm American) have a different perception of STi than Japan does. STi models exist of every mundane boring commuter model made by Subaru and they're literally appearance packages. At least the dampers and Brembos exist on this model. Considering there's no US STi anymore they can pretty much slap the badge on anything and it means nothing.
Exactly right. STI is an in-house parts provider and tuner……..there are all kinds of STI components - short-thro shifters, dampers, etc. the label doesnt mean that the car pretends to be the zero STI - the label means the car has STzI components …. Why do people get hung up on the STI badge? Makes no sense. Whatever….
My favorite car reviewer of all time. Crazy I been following you for 12 years now! Content always 11/10 thanks for all you’ve done for the car community on RU-vid Matt!
So glad to get your thoughts on the TS. I’m still loving my 2022 and am curious about the new struts since that is what people replace for autocross. I’m glad to have a BRZ before they added the windshield eyesight cameras and more nannies.
Matt, I haven't watched your vids in some 5-6 months now probably. Wow! Your style has changed so much! You've matured so much. It was a great treat to listen to this review. You're so succinct, accurate with your impressions and have a more refined approach now. Good job man. I've been supporting you since your Subaru BRZ days. It's crazy how much time has flown by and how we all have changed and grown. Going to start tuning in more as time allows it. Keep it up!
Thank you, I really appreciate that since I’ve been working hard to make the videos and my presentation better. Welcome back! Lots of good stuff coming over the next few months!
It’s just the Subaru version of the GR86 Trueno edition. I wouldn’t even compare this generation to the first gen. The new BRZ is light years ahead of the old one. Not sure why you are disappointed. These are incredible track cars for what they are.
I love love love the way this thing looks and drives, but man they could have done literally anything to make it special. A lip, or a spoiler, or some wheels, or an exhaust, or some Recaros? Just something other than Brembos, which admittedly is a huge plus. The Sachs dampers they're pushing aren't really anything to write home about when many are going to just swap them out for something else. Great review as always!
I too like/love the BRZ. TS, stands for something else, which we know what that is. I agree with Matt on this car. Such a nice sportscar, but they need to make it more bad-ass. Yeah, fuel mileage is a thing that sportscar enthusiasts don't care too much about. I'm glad that Toyota/Subaru didn't throw superior fuel mileage into this equation. Great video. The rain sucks.
I'm new to the world of BRZ/GR86/FR-S. I would have chosen the Ts if I had a Subaru/STI background. I went with a red Limited. Street use only for the first few years. Good video. Thanks.
I bought the original BRZ Limited w/ Performance Package back then for $27k!... practically the same setup as this BRZ tS. I fail to see the $10k difference between this car and my car. Inflation or not. The twins are slowly losing their value as "cheap fun sports car". Give it a few more years into this gen, and the last edition will cost solid $40k. This is ridiculous.
I had a performance pack 1st gen BRZ with those Brembos and currently have a base GR86. Just took my GR86 to a track day at Watkins Glen after replacing just the front pads with powerstop track day pads and it’s pretty crazy how much better pads really do benefit the base brakes. Brembos are great and look awesome but realistically they’re a bit unnecessary for folks who are concerned with function over form. I’ll happily take the base for under $30k and save the money.
How many people remember back in summer of 2012 when Matt was really one of the first on youtube to have the all new 2013 model year BRZ. That was when I subscribed and really enjoyed the weekly updates on the BRZ. I remember you kept getting moisture in the tail lights and also sadly you got a door ding at a shopping center. I wish you could have kept that car, just to see what issues you would have ran into. I agree the first generation just not enough torque. the torque dip was bad, especially merging on highway. This second generation engine really has fixed it. I am the weirdo that does wish Subaru offered a all wheel drive BRZ, I know it ain't happening, but would be neat. Sad if the next generation is electric , these boxer engines have a charm to them and they are so well balanced, low center of gravity.
They needed to throw a v6 with 300 hp minimum in it, and a twin turbo variant with 400-450 hp. I feel like the BRZ was lazily designed mechanically- at least thats my two cents.
@@pgtmr2713 Too heavy. It doesn’t spool up quickly enough and then rev hangs a bit. Some of it may be emissions tuning, but I think it would be better with a lighter flywheel.
@@richardhoulton4016 The rev hang is probably emissions and the rev match issue. My Mustang did that. Randomly a long time ago. It was annoying, I thought something was broken everytime it did that. On the flip side, I've had revs drop off too quickly. Probe GT. Normally it was perfect shifts. That was one of 2 things, low octane fuel, and the first sign of ignition/distributor issues. One thing you could try is lighter wheels, less mass to rotate somewhere else. Lightened driveshaft? Rear gears? In addition to the flywheel.
@@garrettstupperware3754 Do they make one? Is there a factory one that can be lightened? A lighter car that uses the same engine might have one, if that exists. My car comes with a 27lb. flywheel, there's a smaller car with a smaller engine variant, (Mazda MX-3,) one can be bought that weighs 13lbs. maybe a little more and can be lightened even further to about 9 lbs. There's even a guy that has the same exact mods as I do, except he has a lightened flywheel. I can see on his acceleration video how much faster it spins up 60 80 100. Probably takes 1/2 a second off to 60. Probe's a different car than the BRZ/86 but the power and weight numbers, modded, are almost identical ATC and NA.
I never understood the atrocious gas mileage of this light weight small car. Matt mentioned the gearing but ultimately I feel like it’s also the flat 4 engine which its only benefit is lower packaging for handling. They sound bad, not a lot of torque, and produce bad gas mileage. Subaru advertises 20 mpg in the city which in real life means 18 mpg, a number I just cannot justify for the performance,price and size.
He forgot to add the $10k+ dealer charge that Toyota adds. Along with not being able to simply order one. Also the nightmare of having Toyota dealers work on your Subaru. No thanks.
The 2024 GR86's get a performance package option on the base and premium, with the special edition for this year having that performance package included with extra decals and badging. It's the same for the tS for Subaru, both special editions just a premium / limited trimmed 86/BRZ with a badge. They need to make the special editions worth the extra $5K besides a special badge and a "limited edition" plaque.
I love this review. Everyone on Reddit talks shit about the 86 compared to the brz but i always thought it was superior in all the little ways. They may be twins but they’re unique cars.
I too first subscribed to your channel maybe 6 years ago because you had BRZ videos. Back when I first got an 86. If I total my 86 and I've already totaled one. I'm getting the GR86 for sure. On a side note if someone out there was going to buy a new BRZ just get the base model and put brembos on it, same thing right? I'm assuming Matt isn't getting a BRZ again with the Mustang and all. I can't blame you. Tj Hunt started his youtube with a BRZ and many others too. Cheers
Idk about the slow/difficult downshifts. This is by far the easiest car I've driven to heel toe downshift in and I used to own a Civic too. The throttle mapping is kinda sluggish, but at the heat of the moment of needing a quick downshift, its pretty good
Interesting to hear that it's difficult to rev-match due to a heavy flywheel, because my biggest disappointment with the BRZts I sat in at the NY Auto show, was the pedal box/placement. Brake and gas pedals not close enough for "rock/tilt" style heel toe downshifting, but also not enough room on the right side of the gas pedal for the full "heel swing out" downshifts. It's shocking to me that such a purpose built sports car wouldn't have better pedal placement.
Funny... when I test drove a first-gen BRZ, I thought the gears were too short. The ones in the Scion Tc I eventually bought (also a 6 speed) are much better spaced.
Okay, then please enlighten me. Dampers tuned by STI justifies STI badging for the whole car? I know they slap STI badges on everything in Japan, but here in the U.S. it used to signify something special.
@@MattMaranMotoring First, I apologize for my tone. It was early in the morning and I've seen one too many reviews just like this one. Second, I know I'm not going to change your mind, so whatever. Believe what you want. All cars will be EVs soon anyway.
@@harolddalaney Sure. All the STI trim level does is make the car more of what it already is. Everyone expects "STI" to bring more power because that's what the AWD turbo WRX did, but the BRZ is a RWD NA car built for balanced handling. The WRX also had STI badges slapped on everything but I guess that's only ok if the engine makes more power. Maybe Subaru should have kept the FA20 motors in the 2022+ BRZ and saved the FA24 for the tS to make people happier? It probably still wouldn't have been a turbo, because again, STI only makes a car better at what it already is. Plus if they did that, they'd be justified in charging $6000 more than a Limited like the WRX STI pricing, instead of only $3000 more for the big brake & suspension & interior tS package like they are now.
Realistically this car is underrated. It makes 210-215whp as a rwd car, which equals to 245-250 hp; not the 228hp advertised. An Elantra N also weighs almost 500lbs more than this BRZ...I'm not saying this car is faster than an Elantra N...but it's no slouch. I have a 2023 BRZ and have ran against my buddy with a stock 2017 STI, and I pull away from him every single time, not by much, but that car has 305 hp.
I can’t believe they didn’t put the full line of STI parts in this car. There’s quite a few parts they make for this car but some are only in Japan. I just get the feeling that Subaru doesn’t care about the BRZ and only make it because Toyota wants to. I think both the BRZ and WRX are not long for this world.
What's your best technique for launching this car? Still struggling to get off the line quickly in my GR86. I feel like this is how the GR86/BRZ should've been out of the box from the beginning, proper Brembo brakes and it would've been track ready from the start. I agree that this has more than enough power for the street, I struggle to find opportunities to even get it to 7krpm... Totally agree on adding auto rev match down shifting to the BRZ/GR86, it would make driving around town less a bit easier. Lastly, it was somewhat criminal the GR86/BRZ didn't come out two years ago with all these safety systems for the manual, that could definitely impact resale price for the older model.
I honestly don't launch cars really unless they have launch control, but I've heard for these a fairly hard launch is what's needed, as long as you don't mind abusing your clutch.
What’s the RPM like when cruising at highway speeds in 6th, 70mph or so? My Kia Forte GT manual is geared pretty short as well, so you are always shifting to the next gear, but the downside of that is that you are at 3k+ RPM just cruising on the interstate, so the highway MPG suffers and it also sounds kind of droney
I honestly don’t remember but it wasn’t high enough that it annoyed me or stood out in any way. I’ll have a GR86 in a couple weeks and can report back then if you’d like to know.
Having driven more than a few modern Subarus (including my own 2020 Outback) with "lane keep assist," I can say with a fair amount of confidence that Subaru has the worst lane centering functions of any modern car I've driven with the same feature. The Subaru will ping pong you back and forth between lane lines.
I was looking for reviews on old XT4's and I saw your review. Was then i realized i hadn't seen a video posted by you appear on my feed in a while. Then this one pops up.
Welcome back! That's the way to trigger the algorithm. It heavily favors recent watch history. So once you have one of my videos in your recent watch history it'll start recommending my stuff more and keep recommending it as long as it sees my videos in your recent watch history.
I personally don't care for all the added aerodynamics on the top versions of sport coupes. They always look like ugly afterthoughts IMO. But well, I'm not a driver like Matt is.
I don't really understand the resentment about having the STi branding on the on/off button and instrument cluster of the new tS. You don't really hear people complaining about all the GR branding that's all over the GR86 even though it's no where close to being a genuine Toyota, let alone a GR designed and manufactured product. These cars will never be pure GR or STi. I'd argue it's closer to STi pedigree than it is to GR - the Subaru Boxer making 228hp is way beyond performance of your standard Subie Boxer, in fact it's exceptional! How many 4 cyl NA engines can match it??
@@MattMaranMotoringyou mean in tS vs PP? I'm not aware of any substantial differences, if there are please inform me. The regular GR vs BRZ has different throttle mapping and slight suspension tuning differences - what are you referring to when you say GR did a whole lot more?
It’ll come down to what you like. I think limits are higher in the BRZ and the hardtop rigidity will stand out. The Miata is more playful in its character and I think you have to enjoy a convertible experience for the Miata to win over the BRZ. Mazda does do throttle tuning and flywheels better, much easier to rev match the Miata.
Matt, I traded in the MT GR86 for an AT Supra last week. The supra is obviously more impressive in every way. But for that weekend drive, the light no BS GR86 was just special. I think what let GR86 down for me after 2 years is that the short gearing that you mentioned got a bit tedious especially as I daily drove the car. That 1 to 2 gear change in particular and the rev hang gets tiring very quickly. Also subaru's terrible build quality with all the rattles popping up all over gets on your nerves after a while. Long and short of it: the twins are great imperfect weekend cars, not great for daily driving.
Save the money and buy a Limited trim BRZ or Premium GR86. The Ts and Trueno are not worth the added cost. Those trims are not what any actual track drivers will buy. They are poser trims.
We'll, all I can say is I like the front end of the BRZ over the GR86. Based on that $2,500 for upgraded dampers and brakes still seems like a good value as opposed to doing it yourself. Watching this video I am so glad I disconnected the fake electronic sound on my 2022 Limited . That with an MRT Axleback Touring exhaust, a Grimmspeed tube and removing the Charcoal filter still provides my car with some oomph at 7000 feet where I live. I would still not spring for the TS as I don't track my car. To me it does not and should not sport anything STI at all. If they bumped the horsepower by 15 to 20 HP and offered an STI short shift kit as standard along with the upgraded brakes, a heavier clutch, and the dampers, then I might see it. I'm just glad we have an affordable RWD vehicle with an N/A engine in it and a manual transmission. This combo is an on-going dying breed, so I am grateful this vehicle still exists.
The BRZ tS is actually worth while in the land down under because Toyota doesn't have the performance option on the GR86. It is tS or self upgrade brembos on a premium GR86 that is 2k more expensive to the BRZ counter part. I got my tS Ex Demo 1 grand less than the premium version with 200 kms on the odometer. Only thing I am pissed off about is the blue trims come exclusively NA, AU has maroon red as trims...
2024 toyota gr86's now have the performance package option for the premium trim which come with brembos and upgraded sachs dampers from the factory. They pushed out that package first on the new Trueno special edition, and now premium trims are rolling out with them too.
Congrats on getting one! That's a bummer that Toyota doesn't offer their package there, I can see the tS definitely becoming more appealing if it's the only option haha.
@@BakalovGaming I don't see anything from Toyota AU website. Maybe they offer it at the dealer? Subaru AU website has all their option available and optional accessories. GR86 GTS for $50,808 drive away, excluding dealer upcharge.
@@wombatcombat3770 perhaps it might not yet be released for AU yet, if at all. I am over in the US and there have already been photos of people/new owners (in the US) posting photos of the performance pack trims in the gr86 sub Reddit
I agree. I think they made it underpowered just so young enthusiasts can buy these things used market, the good market. New cars means that you gotta deal with never ending loans and depreciation and some ppl say that new cars are unreliable idk if its true idk man I grew up with used cars so yeh
You really want another turbo 4 cylinder like everything else has these days. Higher revving n/a engine makes it unique in today's market, 6000rpm redline in a lightweight barebones sports car doesn't sound very appealing.
Trueno editions are getting marked up to well over $40k. They're also not putting a lot of GR86s with the PP right now so you're lucky to find one that's not been spoken for or one that doesn't have $2-3k of extra "accessories". I had a deposit on a GR86 with PP and they tacked on a bunch of extras I didn't want. I ended up canceling for a BRZ Ts with exactly what I wanted and a bit cheaper.
My Porsche 718 Boxster T gets better fuel economy. Lol. I love the BRZ though. I would get aluminum knuckles and add brembos. Why not? A big point of Brembos is less unsprung mass. Adding steel knuckles sucks. Ride quality = unsprung mass in a lot of ways.
@@AcoAegis yes it does. However, i actually liked the feel and ease of a Miata RF more than this 718T. 718T is more mechanical and stark. Beautiful and really fast, but my old RF was like an elegant glove.
I used to own a 2012 Impreza w/CVT. I actually liked their CVTs over others I've driven (Nissan). I did a pull against a Mazda 3 and I'd just continue to pull ahead while the Mazda would fall back at each shift haha.
To start with, it wouldn’t fit. But if you modified the car so that it would, it would have to be taller, have a higher CoG, require a completely new entire driveline to handle the torque. It’d be 200kgs heavier and $15-20k more expensive and a Supra rival (which Toyota wouldn’t want). So what’s the point? The idea was small, lightweight, affordable and fun. And it meets that brief.
I won't beat the dead horse about the lack of power. Others have addressed it so I will add that I've driven the current BRZ (not the tS) and it is still laboriously slow and it's somewhat risible that it requires premium gas despite its lack of speed. But I will bring up two other things. The BRZ has one of the worst interiors I've ever seen in a current car. The cheap switchgear, hard plastics, and 1980s alarm clock numbers font are not up to par for a 2024 car. I get that this is a sports car made on a budget but this car is not priced as a low budget car and its interior is unacceptable. About the price, the tS with taxes, tags, delivery, fees, etc., hits almost $40,000 and that is dangerously close to much better more capable cars such as the 4 cylinder Supra or the Mustang GT. It seems Japan is no longer interested in making world beating relevant sports cars anymore, they have ceded that market to Europe, and it's pretty sad that the two most exciting Japanese sports cars are now a Civic and a Corolla.
