Revisiting Our Hybrid Water Heater Install | Ask This Old House 

"I'm sorry." You hardly ever hear that anymore. Great job Richard.

I've been watching this show since i was a kid in the 80's. I always love seeing them revisit homes they've worked on.

This shows a level of character not all people have. Glad to see TOH acknowledged there was an issue and went back and made it right.

I would love to see more of these short videos where they check in on people that had newer tech installed to collect feedback.

Rich is a top notch plumber. Always a pleasure to see his work.

Solid job by Richard and ask this old house. People willing to right a wrong is very nice to see. One might say uplifting even. A plumbing video with Richard wouldn't be complete without the "cut away" Love it!!

Bottom line, Rich went back and fixed it. It't not any plumbers fault that they wouldn't touch it because it becomes a warranty nightmare. Eternal, which is the manufacturer at fault sent a half page release on their website and to some installers back in October 2015 saying they closed up shop. It left no warning for installers or suppliers. The letter basically said they are winding down operations and any parts left over will be the only parts left for service. Back in 2013, I installed 6 of these units in a set of houses I built, 3 of them needed to be replaced ( 2 dead control panels, 1 cracked heat exchanger). The 3 gave out in Dec of 2016. I was not given any letter and plumbers on my crew we not given the letter either. So we had no choice but to install new units, replumb them, and get them up and running. We installed Navien units and so far so good. The other 3 will probably go out soon, and when they do, we will replace them. With that said, installers and builders like me try our best to deliver the latest and greatest if it fits within budget and if we feel after doing research is appropriate for install. But many times, factors such as Eternal just closing up shop in the middle of the night is something we can't control. Any plumber or builder worth their grain of salt will just step up and replace the units. While the 3 units were replaced on my dime, should the other 3 do the same thing, I will do it again. But some homeowners need to understand, when we see units like these, that we didn't install and we need to have a conversation with the homeowner to explain in order to replace the unit, such as a Navien, it will cost roughly $4K. Its a tough conversation because many homeowners, atleast in NJ expect the unit to be replaced for free. WHile investing more money on another unit hurts, installers do not run off a network where we can look in a computer and say, "we didn't install it. It's under warranty though despite the company being out of business, so we will do this as a warranty repair." Some plumbers and installers simply can't afford to just install a new item in their home if they didn't install it. What helps is standing by your work and having a conversation that says, "I understand the frustration and understand that spending money on another unit is a tough pill to swallow, but if you let me install a new unit, I promise I will stand behind it should something go wrong." Having this conversation will go miles with a customer especially should something go wrong and you do everything you promised, that customer will be with you for life. It's the most important thing. Eternal, while was the latest and greatest at the time, is not the only company to pull something shady such as this. Look up Tamco's Lamerite roofing products. Tamco has been around for a long time, and back in 2012 was one of the only manufacturers to offer a composite slate roof with a 50 year warranty. Within 3 years, the product started to fail. Either because of extreme discoloration, or sever chipping, or the slate pieces just sliding off the roof. Tamco no longer manufactures this product, discontinued service on this product, will no longer send a rep out for inspection; but is still in business selling its asphalt shingle line. If you look this product up, you will see numerous class actions regarding this product. But again, not the fault of the installer, not the fault of a suppliers; but since we're on the front lines, we're on the hook. Stuff like this happens to even well established companies. So before anyone knocks the installers, the homeowners, other tradesman, realize this, most of us go to trainings from manufacturers. Most of us will try to give the latest and greatest because it gives and edge towards better building practices. Most of us will stand behind our installs in the event a manufacturer shuts its doors and says, "sorry sucker, you're on your own." While this mantra may not apply to every single tradesman, it will apply to most.

Love that TOH stands behind their work. Awesome.

My Grandfather was a Union Plummer. I'm absolutely fascinated by how modern and Ancient plumbing worked. Grandpaw Johnny. Died 1976. R.I.P. I never got the chance to know him.✝️

It's tough on a contractor that is left hang because a company closed it doors. As a business owner and consumer I appreciate all contractors that stand by their work especially in a situation like this where there is no manufacturing support behind them. For all contractors that support their customers let me say thanks because the tendency now is to do the job, get the money and move on. Once again thank you for your continuing support.

"Am I going to see you again in 4 years?" I'd love to have Richard over repeatedly. The house we just bought is 100 years old this year and it was a nightmare getting it repaired enough just to carry home owner's insurance.

And that my friends is what I call life. It's not what happens to us but how we deal with them when they do.

These videos are the best, I would love to see more revisits for successful projects as well...

Richard Trethewey is my hero. LOL. But really, he's our favorite out of all the "This Old House" crew. I wish we could hire you over here!

Good for TOH for doing the right thing. Already love all the guys and the show; now love AND RESPECT them even more. :)))))))))))))))

That home owner is a FREAKING MILLIONAIRE!!!!

Richard is such a cooool Dude ❗He has a passion for his trade, awesome, he likes his job, & he's super nice guy 🤓

Rich, your a good man. Great job

Richard is the Man!

I am so glad to see something screw up for these guys! I can't tell you how I hate that everything they do comes out so damn perfect---- nothing like my projects where I'm happy when nothing goes from bad to worse when I'm trying to fix it. Of course I don't have a team of experts behind the scenes doing all the hard work. Great job in coming back and correcting the screw up though.

That basement tho 😄it’s spacious

Good on you Rich. I know how that goes too.

Nice to see a follow up. Great job!

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong.

Ive been a plumber over 35 years....I like my 50 gallons of hot water in my garage, standard water heater. Every 12-20 years I replace it. That works out to about 11 cents a day. These tank-less heaters are a fashion.

this is interesting to whats.. because i'm also a plumber in the Netherlands, but we do it a little bit different. most of the time we use high presser to connect the pipes for water and gas...

Nice work.

I love that guy work real nice

I greatly appreciate this video and the comments! This JUST happened to us with the same Eternal water heater! As was stated it worked great until it didn't. I spent the day doing research and learned what was stated here. I know the plumbing contractor made his recommendation in good faith. I did my research at the time. This heater incorporated great ideas. But here we are.

I bought a used tankless on Craigslist +10 years ago for about $100. Soldered it in and it still works fine. Bet I could get his broked one working.

I'm pretty surprised by the number of negative comments about instant hot water heaters like this, about how they rapidly fail and are unreliable. Here in Australia it's extremely common to have an instant gas hot water heater, and they are usually as cheap or cheaper than tank water heaters. They are usually warranted for about 10 years on the heat exchanger and 3 years on the rest of the unit. The one in my house is about 35 years old, though I'd like to replace it soon because it's starting to have a few issues.

Great savings made here.

Usually with a recirculating pump you're going to insulate all the hot water lines that you can so that you don't radiate heat from the lines. Uninsulated lines cost you efficiency in your water, and also are going to increase your cooling bill for your house. I work in commercial Heating and Cooling, and we use recirculating pumps a lot.

I love old school.

Hope it doesn’t get cold there, the condensation line will freeze outside

Eternal. A name that sounded like forever, but ended up meaning rest in peace. I got bit by the exact same problem. Mine died this week, leaks are developing all over the unit, and I'm now faced with the same dilemma. I'm going more traditional with a Noritz. At least the company has been around forever and I have little doubt about anyone's ability to service it. I was tempted by the Navien, but it's another company that's relatively young. Not making the same mistake twice.

OMG, HTP hybrid water heater is now discontinued. I have a Monitor combi boiler which is an orphan with no parts as the French company exited the U.S. market many years ago, but it is such a good product it is still working. However after almost 20 years it is finally time to replace it. At least that HTP should still be under warranty as the company is still in operation in the U.S.

I had to watch the original video just to refresh my memory. That is amazing that they revisited this install...goes to show you that at the time, this tech was not full proof.

Nice 👍

Thanks Richard! I'm learning SO much!!

I briefly helped a guy who was building his 2nd house with a similar style recirculating system except instead he had motion detectors set up in each of the areas that recirculated to that would trigger the circulating pumps for 10-15 after there was motion. He had found that without the motion detectors in his first house the constantly recirculating hot water was actually heating his house which was a problem in the summer.

This seems like a great water heater, HTP makes good stuff, but I was looking at the specs and it has no greater output at any given rise than my Navien tankless, or several other tankless units on the market. Also, if he had a huge demand that a single Rinnai couldn’t quite handle, why didn’t he just cascade two units? It’s actually quite easy now days.

We live in Italy and everyone has the boiler-style water heater because of the price of energy, and because house heat is hot water rather than forced air. The units, by law, must be inspected every two years. Riello is the brand we have, going on 10 years now and no problems.

I can't wait to see the follow-up in 4-5 years!

Good stuff. I am not in plumbing but I am in a similar field. I have manufacturers who try to slither out of honoring warranty calls ---- I drop them like a bad habit.

i like the word, " i see you again in 4 years" ....

This is a small point that needs addressing: The drip pipe for the gas feed should have been placed directly below the inlet to the heater using a tee fitting. The drip pipe is shown at the bottom of the gas feed line against the wall. I would exchange the tee and elbow fittings. The California plumbing code requires the drip pipe to be as close to the valve as possible.

Nice customer

Imagine teling a customer you need to replace that $6,000 job in 4 years WOW!!! law suite right away!

Great show, I have the sane water heater in a much smaller house what did you do about the mixing valve noise. In a 1000 square foot house its pretty noisy any help would be wonderfull

I work for a plumbing company as well and I refuse to sell any of these high efficiency water heater or boilers. They are completely unreliable and expensive. Most only have a one year parts warranty. Most parts distributors don't keep the parts on the shelf. Most manufacturers give you a best guess on what part fails. I have been burnt too many times for selling this junk only to return to job multiple times to repair them. I would rather not get the job than to install one of these type of units. I would love to sell them but lack all confidence in them. If they ever fix them, I would be all for them. Until then, I'm sticking with the tank type water heaters and cast iron or copper fin boilers. Keep in mind that any money you save on these type of units, you will spend on yearly service and repairs.

If you have an eternal and it’s giving you issues get a Navien. Go on their website and search for local certified installers. I have over 250 units installed with zero issues, I swap Eternal units monthly.

"big house like this" that's a freaking mansion lol

Intergas boilers are the best,

Thanks for the video. My wife and I had the exact same unit installed when we built our house in 2013. We just realized yesterday that the water heater is no longer working. No parts, no service, no company to call. Wouldn't it be nice if you could take out insurance against things like this?

Richard my heater is clogged and the furnace is leaking water from outside to inside how do I fix it?

Does it not need a service valve kit? Any tankless I’ve ever installed was put in with a service valve kit for maintenance?

Shouldn't that have the valving with added hose connections on hot and cold for recirculating vinegar thru the unit each year for a half hour? If you don't do it yourself with a sump pump in a bucket with a top and a couple of hose 6-8' lengths, then you'll pay a plumber $200 each year to do it for you.

HTP also makes a floor model called the "Crossover" They sell it under the HTP brand but also under the Westinghouse brand. I had bought the later only to find that no plumber would install it. The warranty did not apply for "online retailers" which I wasn't sure was applicable to homedepot.com or not, but wasn't going to wait to find out. I wonder if anyone has installed either version and whether it works well or not. Should I reconsider?

LOL, it's not an 'off chance' that you will use/need some hot water. It's pretty much guaranteed.

I have an eternal hybrid. Crossing my fingers it doesn't die soon.

As an adopter of early technology you should know there are risks.. Don't blame This Old House. They tried to help make your life better.

for goodness sake! yes we use those wall mounted heaters in Europe, but we have a friking insulated water tank which keeps the heated water at a constant temperature so we don't have to wait for our water. gosh man gets your facts right.

New tech is great... when it works. You always have to consider the liability. In this case, the home owner obvious has the means to just buy a new one. The rest of us, not so much. Richard's happy, more money for him.

The re circ pumps go out what is the replacement cost? Is the software in the computer or the pump?

Sounds like there was some sediment build up inside the unit which resulted in blocking off flow of hot water, and perhaps also explains the noise. But Im wondering, how hard is it for a plumber to service it? Even if a small part needs changing here or there, Im sure there is something in the market which could be used to fix the issue, instead of throwing your hands up and discarding the entire unit. Id appreciate a fix that works for the common home-owner, as not everyone is rich enough to just replace the whole thing.

One thing that never comes up is the maintenance on tankless water heaters - you have to descale every few years, annually if you have hard water. If you want "endless" hot water that's great, but don't expect a significant cost savings over the life of the unit.

Could you install union(s) on the combustion and flu gas lines to make it easier when a unit needs to be replaced??.

7:44 at first i thought he was apologizing for calling the shower a car wash.

6:40 I'm happy you CHESTED the system

Excellent video. Very informative. That heat exchanger is sexy as hell!

This is where, if at all possible, buy the appliance itself using a platinum (or similar) credit card... Now, there are obviously a lot of caveats, but if there was a 5-year warranty on it and they went out of business before the warranty expired, a lot of these high benefit credit cards will cover it with a kind of insurance. Not all, but my American Express has bailed me out on a few things... It also doesn't hurt to find out if there is any residual bond coverage with the original manufacturer. I have heard that some states do require a manufacturer to have an insurance bond... Now, in this case, there is a high likelihood that the owner did not pay anywhere near retail because This Old House arranges discounts to feature products in their show...

now in the uk we use combi boylers

I have an old school gas water-heater. I lost power for 3 days, because a neighbors tree fell on my house and truck, and tore the electrical straight from the meter socket. Even though it was winter, and the house got down to 52 at night, hot water still worked and was welcome. I don't think I will ever go with a tankless, or power-vent type water heater. (Until the government forces us, of course.) I should add, that all water faucets are at the opposite side of the house from the water heater. If I had to go tankless, I would want the tankless heater to be installed right in that area, which means running a gas line.

Company goes bust after a few years. Ironically named Eternal. Why is he sorry to the house owner - he more than likely had it fitted for free by TOH.

I’d still like a super stor next to it with 40-60 gallons

I wonder why the European designs from long-established companies, that are famous for high efficiency and bulletproof reliability, like Viessman or similar, haven't made inroads into the USA?

Is it wise to install one of these if the water is very hard? Our current ordinary water-heater has something in it to avoid issues caused by minerals.

off subject, no fire tape on the wallboard?

They forgot to add access ports to allow the heat exchanger to be cleaned of minerals. That was probably what went wrong with the first unit. Thousands of dollars of equipment thrown away simply because they couldn't get someone to run vinegar or clr through the machine.

What do you do with the old unit you removed ?

My mum and dad have had a tankless Combi boiler (U.K.) and it’s been in now for 15 years. Water stopped heating 3 years ago and it was a nightmare but then had the gas board to fix it and there was a valve that needed adjusting that no engineer spotted. My advice with any of these systems is hire a reputable plumber for a service. Everything is electronic these days and a good plumber pays for itself. Saying that I’m one of the first people in the U.K. to have an air to water heat pump and mines been in for 8 years in December. Never a problem although it’s getting a bit sluggish to get the house warm so think it just needs a service and maybe a flush. We shall see. I have a tank though and electric is sky high here in the U.K. it’s 5x more expensive per unit of electric than gas so I’m thinking of getting a Combi boiler now as for my 2 bed terrace which was built in 2010, it’s costing me 80 pounds a month (100 dollars a month roughly) to heat my house

=====QUESTION=====- how do you keep all the lime and minerals from the water from clogging up all those aluminum heat fins??? my current old fashion water heater ends up burning out from all that crud sitting on the bottom of the tank from over the years. thanks

technology is fine, only get hurt when company closes, i always go with company that have been around for long time. been using tankless water heaters for 25 years with no problems

those aluminum fins in water in a stainless enclosure wont work out well, i hope they have a water softener too

I never understood a basement that was open for the ceiling as that fiberglass insulation, and other stuff, comes down (especially with foot traffic above) and into your lungs.

how often must you descale that new unit?

So, a family of 4 with two teens in the house..would you recommend this unit? I still think a tank type would be better. We are doing laundry once a day, dishes once a day, and 4 showers a day. Time is essence, and usually two items running at a time. Either shower, laundry, and/or dishes. plus, they are twice the cost easily Still insist on tankless? Should have replaced his unit with a Rinnai

WAAAAAY more complex than I would EVER sign up for! I think it is almost certainly going to have issues.

id actually be interested in ripping the old one apart seeing what failed, i don't think we can advance anything without finding out whats going wrong, i've also been watching this since the 80s when i was a kid, when Bob Vila hosted, still a great show

Should have bought a PB Heat PBC 52 Combi 5.2 gpm

I wish I could go tank less with and feed it with solar hot water heater, with a storage tank (heat exchanger).

When playing the video at 1.5x the background music sounds like a banjo riff duel

I stick with the old style water heaters. And they change out in about an hour and a half

The combustion inflow, and the exhaust were exactly the same, looking at the pipes from where they exited the house, no one would be able to tell which was which. crossing the pipes wasn't necessary.

If it has aluminum fins that water hits, and water pipes are generally made out of copper, won't there be galvanic corrosion down the line??

This is one of the many reasons why I'm not a fan of hybrids/tankless units. I simply have no interest with installing them, and have no problems with my competition having that work.

Wow, this homeowner paid big bucks TWICE in less than 4 years. Ouch.

Now I'm starting to wonder who the old manufacturer was

On a completely unrelated note doesn't the homeowner look like the guy from the car review channel "savagegeese"?