Rhaegar Q&A - livestream 

Really bums me out that they are adamant about not doing Robert's Rebellion on HBO, such an intriguing story, even just an 8-10 part mini series would be perfect.

Cant believe I missed this live. The most enigmatic character in the whole series imho.

Well, this party is over but... re Cersei and the Valonqar prophecy.... Chekov's necklace. Tyrion strangled Shea with it, and Cersei made a point of telling the servants who took Shea's body from Tywin's bed not to damage it because she wanted it. The prophecy says the Valonqar's hands will choke the life from her and Jaime only has one. The necklace is formed of linked golden hands... whoever the Valonquar turns out to be (and I haven't ruled out Tyrion) she will definitely be strangled with that necklace.

Arthur Dayne "throwing" the Tourney at Harrenhall: I highly doubt that any kind of "arrangement" between Rhaegar and Arthur was necessary. Arthur was Rhaegar's closest friend so he knew what the point of the tourney was.

As far as the Targaryan kings are concerned, in my opinion, Rhaegar is mostly Aerys the First activated: to inaccurately quote Dunc and Egg stories, "Aerys would do something if he read it in one of his books"... Rhaegar did just that :)

This has taken me a couple of days to hear in full. I love all your content, thank you so much.

A spy master wanting to put a "good king" on the throne for "the sake of the realm"? Am I the only one finding the idea simultaneously terrifying and ludicrous?

I'm here to represent those of us who watch these when we go to bed

I love how professional it looks after he reads the questions and takes his glasses off. Robert is iconic guys

Brilliant point about creating a culture that allows for people to change their minds. Admitting we are wrong is a far underdeveloped skill. That humans are not omnipotent is a blessing from the universe and we should celebrate those who are evolved enough to recognize it

What is interesting with the Queen of Love and Beauty story, the two who over-reacted were Robert and Brandon - those who were somewhat notorious for never being able to have contained their sexual appetites, even Lyanna was aware of this...

Could maester aemon have sent rheagar the Jade Compendium? Aemon recommends john to read it before leaving the wall

I wake up not knowing anything i listened to after the first 20 min. His voice is so soothing.

Whahaha. Raigar: prophecy bla bla prophecy. Elia: great dear. Glad you have a hobby.

We don't know what his (Jon's) harp playing skills are like made me laugh way too hard.

Apparently Rhaegar was a part of Tywin's force at Duskondale: "we have a better king here"...

Sorry about posting on all these older videos, but I’m trying to expand my knowledge during this time while we all wait for WoW. My thought on the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy is not they are just staying in one place as Rhaegar instructed (like a good dog waiting for a treat). My view is that they are staying to protect the person who they believe is their King (baby Jon). They, in turn, give their lives protecting him. Given that these men are assumed to be some of the most honorable of the Kingsguard , this seems fitting to me. Cheers!

It would also even further solidify Roberts hatred towards Rhaegar if he truly cried out Lyanna when he died imo.

Robert, thank you for your 'rant'. Such a hopeful comment about human growth that is much needed in all our lives at present. ❤❤ Thank you, rant away as much as you wish

It would make for a great scene if howland reed poisoned Aurthor Dane with a blow dart or something in the beginning of the battle and right before Aurthor can deliver the killing blow to Ned at the end of the battle it is then Aurthor succumbs to the poison and dies

Rhaegar was the ultimate tragic hero. He knew about his death or that walking on that path might lead him to death but he was brave and did the right thing. He fulfilled his karma. He is not a disappointment at all. If you think that, you haven’t understood ice and fire at all.

If Rhaegar's songs were the songs of prophesy, does it mean that Lyanna was impressed by those before the Laughing Tree incident?

A quick note is that I really doubt the great tourney at harrnehal was meant to just put forth this impressive image for rheagar. Of course that could also have been a goal but rheagar already had a pretty good relationship with the realm as a whole at this time so there’s really no need to do that. The tourney was probably just an excuse have a pseudo great council and maybe start to plan the deposing the mad king.

I'm just devo that we're not seeing the Conquest. So many different characters, and seeing the realm before it *was* the realm.

agh! i totally forgot during the stream. does anyone know what Rhaegar read that made him feel he needed to redirect his focus on fighting skill in order to fulfill some prophesy or his own destiny? or is that just lost to the ages? and what does it mean to prophesy that he lost his battle and died in the end?

I don't claim any of this to be true, but alot of things makes sense about the tourney and alliances that were formed there. Especially why Aerys is asking for Roberts head, Richard Stark and Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully and their ambitions. Tywin Lannisters open support for Rhaegar. The war of the Nine penny kings etc. It's alot more to it than we know. Here's how it goes. Rhaegar (with Dorne) and Tywin orchestrated the Tourney at harrenhall in order to call a great councel to dispose of Aerys. Tywin aleready tried to marry into the Southern ambitions with Jamie marrying Lysa. Rhaegar finds out from Lyanna (because she doesn't want to marry Robert or become Queen) when trying to unmask the Knight of the laughing tree that there is a conspiracy from the other great lords, Arryn, Stark, Tully to put forth Robert Baratheon as a potential ruler from his Targaryen lineage in this great counsel. Hence the marriages and alliances. To counter this Rhaegar crowns Lyanna as Queen of love and beauty. He either has to counter the southern ambitions or risk open war between the other great lords and his father Aerys. So there is three factions at the tourney at harrenhall. Rhaegar, Dorne and Tywin team 1. Brandon Stark, Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully team 2. Aerys and crown loyalists team 3. Robert and Ned are of course oblivious to this southern ambitions plan hence why Robert isn't upset by Rhaegar crowning Lyanna. Brandon Stark however, voice of his father Richard stark and future lord of Winterfell and main plotter of the southern ambitions is furious. The starks go to the Tourney in order to find Ned a match and secure another alliance (Ashara Dayne). Ashara Dayne is also used for Rhaegars plotting as she dances with Oberyn, Barristan (Barristan is unknowing of unfolding events) and her brother Arthur Dayne. This is the way in order to communicate without getting suspicion from Aerys who is present at the tourney. Aerys believes there is a plot against him while in fact there are two existing plots at the same time in contrast to eachother. He believes that the knight of the laughing tree is ser Jamie Lannister. Upon his return to Kings Landing he finds out Jamie has been there by household people that confirms it. Hence his mind starts to figure out who the knight of the Laughing tree is, the shield of weirwood, Rhaegar crowning Lyanna the queen of love and beauty. He then sends men to capture Lyanna in order to find information (torture) her into reveiling the southern ambitions plot wich she willingly told Rhaegar about. Rhaegar finds out about this and it becomes a race towars the Inn at the crossroads (next to Harrenhall). At this point Rhaegar knows his wife Elia can't have any more children as Aegon has been born at this time. At the same time Brandon is headed back towards Riverrun to marry Catelyn, he has his duel with Littlefinger for her hand. Ned ascends to meet his sister at the inn at the crossroads from the vale to attend their Brother Brandon's wedding. At this point littlefinger, beaten and humiliated journeying towards the vale witnesses the event at the inn at the crossroads where Rhaegar abducts/saves Lyanna for her own safety together with Arthur Dayne and his other friends. They head towards Summerhall in great rush. Littlefinger (knowing he can't end house stark with the strength of arms) then tells Brandon that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna in order to provoke the future Lord of winterfell into anger wich he does. Brandon Rides down to kings Landing and demands the Head of Rheagar. Aerys capture all of them and only spares one. Ethan Glover, Brandons squire, Ethan Glover is probably the Rat in this secenario due to immense torture and reveals the Southern Amibitions plot to Aerys. The mad king then demands the lords and fathers to come to Kings Landing to answer for their sons crimes. Richard Stark and Brandon is executed in the most horrific way due to his madness. Lyanna hearing these news at summerhall with Rhaegar seeks comfort with him and like Jon wonders in the books after being with ygritte "is this how it happened for my father? Betraying his vows thinking about Ned, While it's actually what happened with his real father Rhaegar and his mother Lyanna. Aerys knowing about the Southern Ambitions plot now sends for the Heads of the people he thinks are responsible, Ned and most of all Robert who is totally oblivious to all this. Jon Arryn calls his banners and Roberts Rebellion begins. Instead of heading straight north towards Ned and Hoster Tully. Robert heads towards Summerhall probably believing that's where his beloved and Rhaegar is wich leads into his battles at Ashford. Lyanna and Rheagar with the help of Arthur Dayne and the Dornish then flees towards The Tower of Joy. Rhaegar and Lyanna now probably have establish a relationship or atleast comforts eachother in their grief also Rhaegar thinks of prophecy and that the Dragon must have Three heads. During this perios it is logical that Lyanna gets pregnant with Jon. Aerys sends Hightower to find Rhaegar wich he does and probably alerts Kings Landing of their whereabouts before really understanding the situation (this information I believe leads to Varys being parted by Robert Baratheon later on). Tywin Lannister was in league with Rhaegar up to this point although flirting with the southern ambitions alliance aswell (not putting all his eggs in 1 basket). Anything to overthrow Aerys but staying neutral as much as possible. All of this is what Rhaegar speaks to Jamie about "I meant to call a counsel but it does no good speaking about roads not taken". After this Rhaegar heads out to meet Robert because basicly that's his only choice at this point. Rhaegar Dies so Tywin has to adjust his plans and joins the rebellion killing the Dornish and Targaryen loyalists to show his support during the sack of Kings Landing. Stark, Baratheon, Tully and Arryn also had to adjust their alliances because of the Death of Brandon and Richard thus Ned Marrying Catelyn and Jon Arryn marrying Lysa. So it's possible to think Ned really did love Ashara Dayne. After the horrific events in Kings Landing Ned and Robert have a fallout over Rhaegars children. Jon Arryn starts scheeming with Tywin and probably Hoster Tully, Calms Dorne down and offer the Robert-Cersei marriage. Ned finds out from Varys (wich got the info from Hightower earlier) where Lyanna is most likely to be. He starts his journey towards the Tower of Joy lifting the siege as he goes. Ned finds Hightower, Dayne and the kingsguard infront of the Tower of Joy. The kingsguard sees Lyanna and Jon as the only Royalty left and stands their ground honoring their princes last wish and protecting the heir at all cost. I belive the only three surviving members of the confrontation is Ned, Howland and Arthur Dayne. SPECULATION: I believe ser Arthur Dayne loses his swordhand and gives Ned Dawn together they destroy the tower and all evidence and heads towards Starfall. Wether the twins Jon/Dany are born here I cannot say (there aren't enough text to support it however it would make sense if Ashara sails towards Dragonstone with Dany faking her own death.) Jon is deffinetly born at the tower though. Ser Arthur Dayne and Ned and Howland journeys North where Arthur Dayne takes the black becoming Qhorin Halfhand.

Jon Snow’s real name is Jon. He was named after Jon Arryn. She died before she could name Jon.

I love your series on Game of Throne, even bringing in ideas I never would have thought of. Really enjoyed your series travelling around Westeros and Essos. Disappointed that I missed this. I had a question or two I could have asked. Hopefully next time.

We also know from Barristan that Rhaegar didn't like to fight he didn't have the desire however he was still very skilled if he was trying to show his prowess he could've been motivated enough to raise his level just saying. If Rhaegar was so good without really caring for it what if he had to for a day

Almost caught the stream this time!

And yes he deserves his own series to understand game of thrones better.

Is there a chance stannos is learns of John’s lineage and steps aside voluntarily?

I think there is nothing special about the name "Widow's Wail", as it was a bit of Jeoffrey's fantasizing, like with his other swords...

Raegars fatal flaws weren't his certainty about the things he did. It was his uncertainty that was his fatal flaw, he was so prone to changing his mind that it cost him his life. Its easy to say he was arrogant but he actually wasn't. He never treated anyone like he was better than them unlike his father. His uncertainty was his downfall, kings need to be certain about the things they believe in, it gives people hope and inspires people. Raegar likely questioned himself at the last minute and thats when Robert's Warhammer likely found its target. In battle you have to be certain you can survive or you die very quickly. You have to focus, stay calm, clear your mind of everything and let the battle take shape around you. As it does, you see everything thats going on and it gives you the awareness to know when to strike your opponent. The moment you allow yourself to think and doubt, you die, its that simple. As for the dragon must have 3 heads question, the Targaryans are the east. The conquerors that came from the east and conqured the north south and west. As for the Decline of the dragons and the Targaryans being part dragon declining with them. It makes sense it would be connected, to tame any animal you have to not fear them, something that Ares especially was riddled with. Personally i think it makes sense that as the Targaryans strength and magic waned so did the dragons decline. They where very paranoid at the end of the day to the point of interbreeding to keep the bloodlibe pure, mental health is one of the things that get effected by that and it likely effected their bonds with their dragons. As the Targaryans mentality waned the dragons got smaller and eventually dued.

3:13:05 - Well, I think there are really two main factors to this: 1. Rheagar did not know Brandon Stark particularly well (I don't think there's any record of them having a real conversation) and so I don't think he made the calculation that Brandon would do what he did, something which undoubtably escalated the conflict. 2. Obviously Rheagar realized his father was mad but I don't think he quite anticipated how far Aerys would go. After all, what Aerys did was incredibly stupid and in fact far stupider than anything he'd done before. Burning a lord paramount and his son and then askin Jon Arryn, a father figure to Robert and Ned, for their heads was next-level stupid. So I think Rheagar underestimated quite how far gone his father was.

I think ppl get to hung up on the Tudor Inspiration aspect. The Lannister's are very much like the Borgias. Crazy ambitious Father becomes Pope and Kings bow to him. His children... Brother and Sister Incest. Cesare Borgias, really "loved" his sister and killed all her husbands. They had a runt, drunk brother that nobody really liked. And Dany turned into a female Hitler. He certainly had to be inspired by the rise and fall of the nazi party and how a single charismatic leader seduced the crowd into mass murder.... Her colors are Red and Black and the name Targaryen / Aryan. Blonde/Platnium Blonde. Blue eyes/ Purple eyes. And they believed their racial purity made them superior to all other humans. GRRM was inspired by more than the Tudors LOL.

I feel like aegon the conqueror and Rhaegar are echoes of each other

Thank you so much for this lovely stream on Jon’s mysterious and misunderstood Father. I do appreciate the way you managed to keep at bay the hate that usually fallows Rhaegar. I am sorry I couldn’t watch you live, I would have loved to ask your opinion on the infamous Oberyn claim he and Elia were as inseparable as Jamie and Cersei. I doubt Oberyn ignores the extent of brotherly love between the Lannister twins. He only fathers daughters. Little Rhaenys looks pretty much as a Martell. Nasty old Aerys even claims “she smells Dornish”. Elia is on the verge of death after she gives birth to Aegon. Good time for confession. Or Ashara spills the beans on her secret. Either way, Rhaegar settles for a discreet divorce instead of scandal and execution. That will explain why the Martells are so nice with him and even accept his Honeymoon in Dorne. But the prophecy!!! Rhaegar already changed his mind twice, why not a third? Mayhaps he sets himself for three children with Lyanna. That will explain why Jon is named Aegon, after a fashion. PS: After things go south for everyone, Ashara receives the visit of a vengeful Oberyn. Lucky for her, Ned and Howland are arround to deliver Dawn. Ned saves Ashara. Howland helps her go into hiding. The Daynes are grateful.

Who bought Rhaella's crown?

Great live stream as always 👍🏻👍🏻

Barristan was the finalist at harrenhal

Aragorn and Rhaegar would have been drinking buddies that never drank.

Get Deep!

In the show did Cersei die with Jamie's hands around her neck? I'm just wondering if the show could have followed through on something.

I would imagine that presence of the dragons magically kept negative consequences of continuous insect at bay.... There were no obvious crazies while the dragons were with Targaryans, but after they were gone, the were quite a few: Baelor, Aegon IV, Aryon, Aerys II....

We'll see Caraxes Sunfyre and Vhagar for sure. And Meleys I hope as she's part of a huge battleI'm guessing they'll scrap Joffrey Velaryon and Daeron the Dating, so no Tyraxes and Tessarion, but we'll see Vermax and Arrax and maybe Syrax tho she doesn't do anything like Dreamfyre. We need Vermithor Silverwing Seasmoke and Sheepstealer from the Red Sowing, then Moondancer at the end, oh and Stormcloud briefly as Aegon III gets away.

IDG!!!

Isn’t rich how Robert is obsessed with Rhaegar raping Lyanna, when, in fact, he is the one who rapes and abuses Cersei?

I’m back ... feet’s are up, eggnog in hand ...

I was under the impression that in the Dunc and Egg story the goal was not as much support as the dragon egg, as Daemon the Second had a dragon hatching dream and that was what would have swayed the Kingdoms for him, as no one else had a living dragon...

Didn't he trust baristan selmy

Similar to Aegon the Unlikely

I understand why you dont, but it would better for me if LOTR was the focus and Martin fell by the wayside. Again your voice and insight is awesome im just, selfishly (admittedly), hoping you focus your content on the greater mythos

Ok Robert, you said you welcomed alternate explanations for what happened at ToJ with Arthur, so here’s mine. Suicide isn’t plausible. For one, there’s no evidence that Dornish or Westerosi culture considers suicide to be honorable. In a culture as macho as theirs, I think the opposite is true. But, even within your own explanation it can’t be true. Either Arthur believes Ned’s motivations to be just, in which case he’d somehow have to think suicide was more honorable than ignoring a dead man’s orders so he does not attack, or he just follows orders and attacks Ned. I think you’re right, he would obey and attack, so why commit suicide? Arthur likely knew he could beat Ned, so why make the decision to commit suicide? It doesn’t make sense. Instead, I think the importance of Ashara Dane is being ignored. GRRM has said she didn’t stay at star fall, so let’s assume your ideas about her being present when they “kidnapped” Lyanna and that you’re also correct about Ashara and Howland being married - they’d have been married for around 2 years by the ToJ, iirc. Ashara had friends in both sides of the war then - Rhaegar and Arthur on one side and Howland and presumably Ned (and possibly Robert) on the other. So she could probably move relatively freely. Let’s say she goes with them to get Lyanna, then she almost certainly would have made it to the ToJ. It’s on the way home. Let’s say that she has a small retinue with her for protection and help - including Wylla or another person who knows about childbirth, and by the time they get to the ToJ Lyanna is visibly pregnant so they stay to help with the birth bc who else can Rhaegar trust? So she stays at the ToJ when he leaves and is there when Ned and Howland - her husband - show up. They fight, Arthur is about to off Howland and she throws herself between them. He hesitates, giving Ned an opening, and he kills Arthur. This means he’s not lying about killing Arthur but he’s not exactly honest either. She leaves shortly thereafter, pregnant with Meera, and goes to Starfall with whomever else was there, leaving Ned and Howland to take down the tower. Before she leaves, they come up with the suicide plan, giving Ned and Howland a reason to go to Starfall and drop off Dawn. She HAS to come in contact with Ned at some point ~9 months before her “suicide” for her to be a feasible mother for Jon - people seem to think she is, so they must have spent 9 months together at some point or come into public contact at some point after the end of the war. Otherwise she wouldn’t be an acceptable guess for the general public to guess as the mother. I suspect Ned spent 9 months at starfall because both of the options for Jon’s mother that most people guess are there. Possibly he left the ToJ to escort her home and Howland took the tower down with his magic stuff, and they met up with him on the way back after faking her death. After all, if Ashara has just given birth to meera then she could feed both children on the trip up north until Jon can be weaned. How else would Ned feed him? There’s no evidence that he brought a wet nurse with him. Anyway....yeah, I think the answer is Ashara. Because it doesn’t make sense with the evidence given.

I think Robert Baratheon knew or might have known that Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar but his pride and male ego went with the lie....

Little sibling not little brother

Lenny Henry is a good character actor? Really? He’s more likely to have me not tune in at all!!

Losing the dragonblood.... Targs didn't get sick or get tired early on in their reign. After the dragons were gone and they started mixing with westerosi they started dying from disease and having weak children.

shit i really hope you see this, do you think rhaegar knew about rhaella being pregnant and why he didn't think one of his siblings would be one of the heads of the dragon

:D

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Lenny Henry is God awful. He is no actor, maybe he used to be a good comedian back in the day. Now he is just a race baiter.

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IDG!!!