A true classic...memories of childhood house in Cork , Ireland , always longed to see America...me being the youngest it was strange because I laughed louder than the older............ all cast that are gone R.I.P. !!! and thanks....
I love how Vivian Vance gives focus to the various other actors in her scenes. She really knows how the timing works and exactly where the laughs are going to fall. Beautiful craft.
I’m glad the audience cheered when Vivian Vance came on set but I felt the cheer could’ve/should’ve been louder! The woman is a legend! Great episode with her nonetheless
I had the pleasure of meeting Charlotte Brown, one of the writers of this series, years ago and she said that the one major mistake the producers made with this series is marrying Rhoda too soon. By the end of the second season, they were running out of fresh ideas for new episodes. I think they considered having Rhoda get pregnant but decided - wrongly IMO - that Rhoda was funnier when she was single and looking for a man which was why it was decided that Joe and Rhoda get divorced. It turned out to be the wrong decision because when they did that, ratings for this series went from number 7 in season two to 32 in season three and it was canceled two years later. The producers hadn't considered that fans of the series - myself included - did not like the divorced Rhoda. If they wanted to save the series, they should have had a reconciliation between Joe and Rhoda for season 4.
Then divorce was not funny in a comedy. But I have to agree they married Rhoda way too soon maybe she should have never married. There are some characters, once that a series is established, that they should never married if they are single, case in point “ I dream of Jennie”, it died once they crossed that line. Mary Tyler Moore never got married in her own series and That Girl got married off of her series .
You're overlooking one major difference. Those other characters were not looking to get married. Rhoda was. And then once she finally got married, the writers had her get divorced. Don't forget that divorce was on the rise in America during this period and maybe seeing Rhoda get divorced on television reminded many people of their own bad experience which might be why those people stopped watching the series. The proof is in the ratings.
Well, if they were going to marry her off, they could at least have married her to someone comically interesting. Joe was so flat. Yet he was also a lousy straight man.
Nobody seems to like Joe! I didn't think he was that bad (except that he looked too much like Tom Jones). Another alternative could have been to have Richard Schaal, who was then married to Valerie Harper, play her on-screen husband but considering that those two really did get divorced in 1978, it's probably better that the producers did not select him after all. It would have been too verite!
@sarahspeaks144 Lady after my own heart! I totally agree with you Sarahspeaks144. One of the things they teach you in business school is that you never go from idea straight to mass production. That's why companies first do a market test to see if a new product will catch on. This is what the producers should have done here. If they wanted to try out this new concept (the divorce), they should have had Joe and Rhoda go through a trial separation just to see how the audience would react (the test market). Once they saw that this new idea did not resonate with the audience, the producers should have had a plan B and write in a reconciliation. Unfortunately, the producers went from idea to mass production to failure. After all, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
This was a very good episode. Vivian Vance fit right in. She made "angry middle-aged man" Joe, tolerable. I loved how Ida was not so subtle in her jealousy of Maggie Cummings. High stakes cheesecake, to say the least. David White (Ted Cummings) was adorable. Martin (Harold Gould) was his usual charming, insouciant, irreverent self.
Looking at this one episode of 1970s TV, three things stand out. 1. The actors talk more slowly because they had about 7 more minutes of screen time. On sitcoms of today, they have about 18 minutes versus 24 minutes of the old days. 2. The opening credits and closing credits, combined, take up about 90 seconds. Rhoda had a LONG intro and closing. 3. The names on the credits are actually ALL legible. One reason for all this. Commercials.
Such a classy group of quality actors... all in the same room. Then I stop and think about the schmutz on tv today. So glad I grew up in the 70s... and that we have MeTV today.
What a joy to see Vivian Vance. Perhaps she was too type-cast as Lucy's sidekick to have really launched a vital post-Lucy career. But this episode really proves that she was capable of holding her own in any comedic setting. Maybe drama, too. Who knows.
Vivian did do commercials after ILL was cancelled. She shunned the idea of being in the spinoff of ILL The Mertzes, and then later on did appear for 3 seasons in The Lucy Show. She left as the trip from Conn to Calif was too trying on her and wanted to spend more time with hubby.
@@nassauguy48 She played smaller parts in films before "Lucy". Most notably "The Secret Fury" with Claudette Colbert in 1950 (Viv's clips from that film are available here on RU-vid). She may have not become a household name, but she would've had some remarkable measure of success.
There was also talk of Vivian returning to once again be Lucy's sidekick on "Here's Lucy". But like is this show, her health prevented that from happening. It's to bad to 😢.
As stated in the Vivian Vance biobiography, she did not want to do " Here's Lucy" and didn't do too many of The Lucy Show's successive seasons. She had re-married and commuted from Connecticut but got tired of the commute...
Love Vivian Vance. Nice to see her outside the Lucy shows. ❤❤💐😊🤗. Ooo, and Larry Tate from Bewitched, Mr. David White. Wonderful actors. Such fun this episode!
One thing I've observed from watching several episodes of this series is the way the show really kicks into a higher gear when Nancy Walker is in a scene. Nothing against the other actors, but she just elevates things to different level, and the energy kicks up a notch whenever she's on screen.
It was almost otherworldly to see David White and the legendary Vivian Vance apart from their respective iconic television shows. It reminds us that they’re all, after all, just working actors playing parts. Such fun.
Viv and Rhoda, perhaps the most prominent second fiddles from previous shows. Valerie did better after MTM than Vivian did after Lucy. R.I.P. Ms's Vance and Walker. Both left a great body of work.
The ILL series ended & wanted to do a comedy on The Mertzes. Wm. Frawley was for it, but Vivian Vance bowed out not wanting to work again with Frawley. Some fans feel it would have failed without Desi and Lucy, Some fans felt it could have been successful, but we will never know either way.
Wow, Vivian Vance and David White. What a great episode. Seeing Viv and Valerie together was awesome. The two best second bananans in the biz! Vivian looked healthy and on her game. Good for her. One of my favorite actors ever! Thanks for posting.
"Rhoda" was one of my favorite sitcoms! I had a crush on Valerie Harper in high school. Vivian Vance did a great job playing Maggie, as she did playing Ethel on "I Love Lucy". "Rhoda" had a great cast as well. No wonder it stayed on for 5 years!!
Speaking of drinking and David White, do you remember how everyone used to drink on BEWITCHED? Everyone except Tabitha. They drank a lot on the TV series DALLAS too. LOL
@@nassauguy48 It absolutely did! They wanted to establish the character of Rhoda, but they did too much, too soon. Perhaps Joe shouldn't have ever been a part of the show, but it should've at least been put off for a few seasons.
Yes, when I used to watch this show when it ran originally, I wasn't crazy about him, but I am still unsure to this day whether I didn't like the actor or the character he played. He always seemed to have an angry streak about him.
They always had great guest stars on this show - Ruth Gordon, Vivian Vance, Anne Meara, John Ritter, and many others. You know there was actually a script written called "Your Old Friend Phyllis" but it never got produced. Cloris Leachman and Valerie were very good friends in life, but always adversaries on MTM Show!
@@washkoskat yeah - playing Carlton's mother, of all people. She was an incredible actress (although some people I've known don't like her acting...oh well.)
@@BenjiOrthopedic her Academy award winning performance in Rosemary's Baby was prefection. No one else could play that role and then later Harold and Maude was so much fun... I think i need to find a Ruth Gordon movie and watch 😁
One of the better episodes as Vivian Vance guest starred. Vivian Vance was going to be a semi regular but became so ill. Then crossed over shortly after. So sad...but she was well loved.
Emily Edwards What is a midwestern accent? I am not familiar with all of the accents in most American states. I assumed Rhoda had a typical NY Bronx accent.
+CaptainGrimsdale There are numerous regional dialects all across the US. Most commonly recognized are the New York accent like Rhoda's (with variants within the city), the Bostonian accent with the vowels: "parking the cah in the yahd," the Southern accent, the Midwestern with its nasalized flattened vowels, and the alternating rhythms of the West Coast, also with several variations depending on where you are.
Very funny and well written episode. Valerie Harper, Julie Kavner, Nancy Walker, Vivian Vance, and David White are all Television legends. Rhoda looked beautiful in this episode. Ethel Mertz meets Ida Morgenstern, Classic.
Most say it's the writers' fault for creating this grumpy Joe character. IMHO it's not what Joe says, it's how he says his lines. If Joe had used a tone that sounded playful or empathetic - instead of sounding like he's annoyed or complaining - Joe would have come across as an entirely different and more likeable person.
5:22 I lived in California for twelve years, yet it took me several seconds to get that one. "Oh. Wine country." The audience's laughter was so quick--it was probably canned even though this was filmed in CA, and they would get it.
I agree, there was something about him. I liked him in the show with Stefanie Powers the Feather and Father Gang i think it was called. It was a cute idea but so much of a show is the music that you hear. I didnt care for the type of music on that one. I really enjoy the Love Boat and Charlie's Angels for their music, especially the theme music. I didnt realize I missed the tinkling of bells in CA until I heard them again.
Because the writers split them up eventually I kind of understand why they wrote Joe as a bit of a dick...what I don't get is why they couldn't stick with one personality for him. Sometimes he's the sweetest ever, next he sounds like perma-douche. Too wide a gap between the two
