He is a programmer though and his job as a "graphics editor" involved quite a bit of development on large amounts of data . He didn't just close photoshop one day and go... hey I'll make a compiler and reinvent web frameworks again!
He is mostly speaking about percieved performance but not the actual performance. The complex apps need actual performance as well. That's why Virtual DOM.
@WebDev how does it surgically updates the dom? It keeps the references of the Dom nodes directly, right? Then why not the data structure that holds these dom nodes is called a vdom?
Just now watching this video in 2022 after Svelte 3 took the world by storm. :D I'm so happy Rich's hard work and great ideas paid off so well. I remember writing components for Svelte 1, thinking to myself, "this is different in all the best ways." Svelte 3 really was a game changer.
The first 2:30 of this talk has to be the best, most simplified, most relatable example and explanation of the problem with React and why Svelte is a solution. I absolutely adore this talk.
still the most important talk of the past 10 years for any front end dev.. if you're still using react and vue you're missing out.. after 8 years of React I switched to Svelte and will never look back.. Breath of fresh air.
This pretty good. Removing unnecessary bloat from front-end. Front-end is meant to be beautiful and meant to be easily prototype-able. React is pretty good too, but Svelte takes it to a whole new level. Really enjoying learning Svelte, pretty easy, very easy to understand.
@@thelenardjourney8525 yeah thats what i loved about coding it used to be possible to make a website mockup within an hour for me but then react happened
COBOL is a bad comparison as it's just very low level. What the virtual-dom frameworks do wrong is obfuscating about unnecessary details while not pinning down the main problems. If my framework isn't truly reactive why even use it?
I was shopping for a new front-end paradigm, and I found it. Svelte and TailwindCSS changed my ...everything. Vue components are being converted to Svelte in a few minutes, with half the SLOC, bundle size reduced from 3MB to about 100kb, identical functionality and outrageous performance. I'll never look back.
10:45 is the moment people are supposed to applaud. Seriously, this is really good... Having spent time to learn React, I'm not sure I'm ready to take on Svelte, but what he's showing is definitely interesting... 15:46 as well..
What an amazing presentation. Watching it on 2021 but dear God Richard... you just blew my mind. Thank God for people like you. I'm gonna try my best to bring Svelte to wherever I go!
It's incredible how critical people can be about this idea... as if compilers were somehow a fringe concept that should be subject to immediate skepticism or even incredulity, rather than, you know, a tried and tested paradigm of software development. Write code in a way that's good for humans, and then transform it into code that's good for computers. This is hardly a novelty and certainly not a fringe idea; what amazes me beyond belief is that it's taken this long for such a reliable, proven concept to enter the Javascript world. I'm endlessly glad that it has - and that when I first had the idea, I discovered that it had already been done for me. Great talk!
This was *exactly* what I was trying to achieve in order to run an interactive web content on low-powered devices. Killer talk and killer engineering, cheers !
I always hated frontend work, to mess with UI, styles, and those big states. I always tried to avoid it and be a backend. Now, after watching this, I WANT to try it again.
A talk, and a framework, that keeps on giving. You had me at the todo-list, then you captured my heart when you showed me transitions. Man I have battled many transition states with React.
Excellent. I started programming before React and stopped before i had to learn it. Now, i’m back and the smell that was react doesn’t stick to the frontend anymore. I consider myself lucky, thank you.
What a wonderful concept, a great architectural work. Coming from a C-language, embedded and telecom protocols world, reading about all the variety of javascript frameworks was just mind-boggling. Svelte definitely makes sense. People who have worked in the lowest system layers / embedded / data-path understand this where performance is paramount and we never had the luxury of memory/cpu available to application programmers. Comparing with the other frameworks, now looks like comparing interpreters and compilers. Compiling is better for speed, as well as for syntactic accuracy checks etc etc. I am not sure if this causes some side-effects though where building the code makes the language less dynamic or functional. Like type definitions (C/C++) vs dynamic types (javascript) and many other functional/dynamic language features. Compiler for the web-apps, this seems really big to me! Can't wait to learn more. And really nice way you explained the intericacies in this wonderful talk. Thanks!
Excited to try Svelte. I just got a new computer because Angular CLI/build tools were so resource intensive. You know there's something wrong when a webpage takes 2 minutes to build each time you make a change.
Rich should consider putting the tagline that he just uttered on this conference: "Svelte putting JavaScript in our HTML instead of HTML in our JavaScript". 10:47 shows that.
"When you say best in class performance, it's like you're standing in front of the mirror saying 'candyman' 5 times, I will appear behind you" That is absolutely brilliant 🤣 Great talk!
I'm always amazed how Rich is determined to make web development better. He has so many innovative projects that is hard to keep up. Great presentation, great project and disruptive ideas.
Coding web stuff today with Svelte brings back ol' gut shakes we had when coding successfully in Assembly or C. Something that cruelly miss when using actual frameworks. OO and patterns are just no-nonsense stuff, once caught, they can be implemented even without fancy stuff. Many thanks from an ol'timer coder & patterns lover!
Great talk, Rich was hilarious at times. That crowd was fairly rude in my opinion, interupting Rich halfway through his talk with random Q&A. Svelte is brilliant and only short sighted people can't see the possiblities.
Haven't written a single line of JS last 10 years. Just heard rumours about ReactJs, few things about AngularJs. I wanna build a website with Svelte now. Really impressive.
5:20 I hardly know anything about React, but when I hear implementations like this, I go "WTF did the inventors think / did they ever go to an introductory algorithms cours *facepalm*"
I'm sold to the idea! React has been stretched way too far. I miss the Angular and Vue style syntax of having JS in HTML instead of HTML in JS in disguise of JSX (too much against web standards).
Really love the idea, although I kinda miss the "state" concept from react. It made it easy to think of the view just as a function from state to html, kinda like in elm. It still is that way, it just doesn't feel like it. Also, I'm gonna miss handling elements as js objects that I can pass around and create from functions. But I think the biggest thing svelte needs is a bigger ecosystem. Things like semantic-ui-react make development in react super easy, while you have to reimplement that yourself here or work with ugly classes.
you have a new friend... Of course others will work really hard to find new ways to criticize this (you're basically making what they spent hundred of hours planning and coding OBSOLETE just going back basics in a new way), because you created something that will help fix many issues at its birth than after it becomes to the level of organized crime, then do like patch/hack things to get around them in places where it clearly affect the user experience. the next main goal is increase the developer friendly-ness to state of the art of nowadays, then this will really go up hill from now on...
So cool! All we now we need to reach Nirvana, are time-travelling debugger (think Elm) and Svelte IDE which can evaluate code in real time (think Lighttable/Clojure) :D
React isn't "declarative". It's a property of Angular where you declare a template. React is functional. But the most terrific thing is that React has no connection to state management and DOM. So, the problem that it solves is not "how to update a value in a predefined slot of a template in the most efficient way", but "there is no slots, everything is computed, even you". Which means it's not about updating text inside "counter" div, but replacing that div with an H1, or a span, or a React component, or nothing. And you need to manage state on your own (in a simple object, reactive MobX, etc) and squeeze it into the tree of the virtual world. This unified approach is sometime easier to mind, but inefficient in runtime (like ML languages vs. C++).
Great presentation. What's the presentation tool he's using that allows him to embed web page to his presentation so he can jump between demos without changing screens?
