/ discord Please consider supporting this channel: / australianrealist Richard Herstein (co-author of The Bell Curve) discusses IQ. Full Video: www.youtube.co.... Heavily Edited.
DCF We are not being given all the evidence. They are holding back the confirmation that intelligence is heritable. Perhaps due to some on going search for a solution to the problems conformation will no doubt create.
@@Based_Stuhlinger What do you call it when somebody makes a convoluted hypothetical argument and their opponent brushes it aside easily by mirroring the question and admitting that in a different world, (one they can't imagine), all their arguments may be invalid. I call it getting owned. He might as well have said, "That's a stupid argument."
@@parkertufts5251 Right, but it's still an academic discussion not debate club. The point of these discussions is to learn and ascertain the truth rather than score political points.
@@parkertufts5251 It's not about being the victor or loser. In a presidential debate perhaps, but I think most academics won't see it in that way. It's the search for truth rather than trying to advocate one rigid way of doing something.
incredibly impressive discussion. Hypnotic to watch Herrnstein lay out his arguments. Pure intellectual power. Not quite as sure about the other professor, who seemed to have less data to present. The word obfuscation was used. That seems about right.
Just a more polite version of today’s wokies. He deflected, tried to change the subject, appealed to nonexistent experts he couldn’t name, and resorted to personal attacks as a last resort.
yup, over the last 5-10 years, it is now undeniable. Have you noticed all conversations related to this subject - including the big topic of achievement gaps, have gone silent? buried and thrown down the memory hole
@@bevs9995 yes. A geneticist on Lex Fridman explained this as a fact. No one will touch the subject because it’s so controversial, See is it Charles Murray? Sorry I forgot the name.
Eugenics is the only way forward. Pay low IQ people not to have children. Once steralized give low IQ people a stipends to help them get along in life. Scrap welfare completely. In a few generations most of the problems we face will fall away.
Marc Doutherd Having low IQ people work to pay for their own social services is a hampster wheel. Having high IQ people earning a living that affords them excess income which allows them to become highly educated and to start companies and develope technologies is far better.
Marc Doutherd Automation can.....and will......replace the people at the bottom half of the bell curve. Simply allowing those with IQs below 115 to die out through eugenics based attrition - no death camps needed- would have a profound positive impact on humankind.
I've been watching talks with Charles Murray lately and I think he's right that humans are coalescing into groups based on both IQ and income. Rich and smart people are intermarrying while the less bright and less wealthy people will coalesce. So we will have a 2 tier society and this will be a global phenomenon. In addition I don't think Bever offers much to this discussion. Herrnstein is good. He and Murray did a good job with the bell curve. 85 percent of most human characteristics are inherited. The IQ problem is a purely neurological phenomenon and that should be the focus of investigation. Blood glucose level in the brain maybe is good place to start.
I think in a society where we are obviously not all created equal, and bearing in mind that the higher your cognitive function (IQ) the higher your rank in society can be give or take other factors, then there are naturally going to be large swathes of the population who won’t do as well in society due to their lack of cognitive function (IQ) and so the only question is how to deal with this man made problem?
The solution is to give everyone an equal Educational opportunity. The school that one attends does determine the outcome that one seeks to achieve In 2022.
Selective breeding. Meaning, we choose better mates.Eugenics is wrong and hateful- it’s forced. Selective breeding is making a smart choice over multiple generations. We also need to stop financially incentivizing poor women having children they can’t take care of. Pregnant mothers, breastfeeding and early childhood- all need proper nutrition, adequate healthcare to stop infections before puberty, and stopping exposer to toxins like lead.
^ Black people like yourself have been saying this for decades. The funding for schools is the exact same amount between inner city schools and “white” schools. It doesn’t matter. The I.Q. gap is genetic. There is no denying this anymore. Whether it hurts your feelings or not, you are intellectually inferior. It doesn’t make you any less of a person, but it does mean that you are not as intelligent.
True fact... Actually the development of genes in certain issues like the iq comes from many things... For example selection... Askenazi jews usually have certain cultural values that promotes that the most studied and intellectual person its at the top in the hierarchy... This means... The most intelligent are better mates... Thats ONE reason for this
@@gustavo042 It has a genetic component... Yes... But also cultural attitudes and other issues that promote It... I think what you are saying with genetic is deterministic... And intelligence isnt like that
Well. he's doing a passable imitation of the sleep-inducing cadence of his boyfriend Noam Chomsky, but I can't divine why he decided to present visually as a Gene Shalit doppelganger.
Our us armed forces have been developing using iq type test since ww1 We should have seriously adapted this to our assembly line school system long ago. Curriculum based on IQ, personality and aptitude combined with a voucher system may be the answer to our failing schools
Gotta bring in the Bever to provide "balance," no matter how weak his disputations are. I guess if Buckley were interviewing an eminent astronomer, he would feel compelled to bring in an astrologer to provide "balance."
Well, he was trying to air a debate about the IQ heritability “controversy.” Unfortunately, the controversy isn’t between two competing empirical analyses, but rather between an empirical analysis and a bunch of people upset by the facts and shouting “shut up shut up shut up.”
The guy with the friggin Nietzsche mustache is grasping at straws and objecting based on what hd fears and what he has heard and not based on any empirical evidence.
"Hoping to alter the events of the past, a 19th century inventor instead travels 800,000 years into the future, where he finds humankind divided into two warring races"
Wow, Mr Bever has certainly plied his trade over the decades ... "Bever is notable for his study of garden path sentences such as The horse raced past the barn fell, as well as his analysis by synthesis model of sentence processing, developed with David Townsend. In recent decades, Bever has studied the differences in language processing between righthanders with familial handedness and righthanders without left-handed relatives. He was a co-founder of the journal 'Cognition.'" en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bever
Triggered. There is indeed "A DANGEROUS MILLENNIUM AROUND THE CORNER" - it's here! Did Mr Bever buy the '70s liberal social science professor costume for this "discussion"? Nothing has changed - science and research vs "feelings" (which gets us absolutely nowhere!)
Nowadays such civilized discussions are quite rare on American TV. People shout, competing to appear "cooler" than the other or jump with a funnier comeback. I guess I was born a few decades late!
Can someone provide me a study that disproves or simply argues against Herrnstein's or Murray's research? All I can find is Vox and Slate articles which are, by no stretch of the imagination, strictly unscientific.
Yes, try Stephen Jay Gould to begin. Shaun’s video on The Bell Curve goes over the horrible data used in it and bad concepts. Such as ‘proving’ American Blacks scores under systemic racism were similar to “pure Negroids” in Africa, so racism cannot possibly be a factor. Except the “negroids” they tested were living under apartheid South Africa, they didn’t actually take IQ tests but ones in a second language. In fact the whole book’s sources weren’t actual IQ tests, they just “estimated” what the scores may correlate to. Also, there’s no actual genetic measures for biological race. Two people of the same assigned race can have more genetic differences than with a person of another assigned race. Two black Africans can have more genetic differences than an African and “white” person. The way humans moved from Africa isn’t “tree like”, but more like brambles twisting back & through each other (read a geneticist say that). If you even answer this, I can send name of articles. There is such as thing as Google - search how geneticists react to “The Bell Curve”. The book wasn’t peer reviewed nor are the authors geneticists or scientists who work in IQ testing (I forgot what that’s called). They misunderstand even IF people can be categorized into distinct races, and crucially, that “heritability” is a measure of group differences. You cannot compare between groups because environmental factors are completely different. And environment is also highly heritable. Our genes react with our environment and environment can trigger genes. Like I said, start with Shaun’s video & there are more references under there to start.
@@gustavo042 can’t see my comment but yours is so asinine I doubt you have any further thoughts than memes in your head. Grand intellectual inheritance, indeed! 🙄
Links aren’t allowed in RU-vid. There is a grand, nifty new device called ‘search engines’ that provide links to geneticists, researchers and authors of even WHOLE BOOKS that argue against this. Not to mention the fact that their ‘work’ was done before the Human Genome Project. Trying to understand genetics and inheritance of even simple things like eye color isn’t straightforward. You could even start with Shaun’s video about The Bell Curve.
Its true the big mostache... Its important to note that intelligence is note a closed idea and has very much different ways of interepting it.... We can say also... The heridability of ability more
Bever: "Dr. Kamin has disputed the twin studies." - Kamin absolutely had to dispute the twin studies because Kamin was a Communist! Marxism rejects the heritability of mental traits because their heritability would imply that the capitalist class structure has a basis in man's biological nature. This is why Kamin, Gould, Lewinton, and Rose were constantly arguing against a biological basis for human differences, because all four of them were dedicated Reds who used the prestige of their scientific occupations as a cover for Marxist activism. Fortunately for the rest of us, three of them have now passed on to their eternal fates, and the last, Rose, must have little time remaining. Can anyone find a non-Marxist scientist who denies the validity of twin studies? Probably not. Casting doubt on the existence or importance of human heredity is a specifically Marxist hobby horse.
Thanks for that incredible insight. Unfortunately though, in 2024, it is still contentious to state that intelligence is highly heritable among individuals, even before going in to group differences. Many people, especially those who run universities, colleges, and teacher training programs are still hardwired in to the "everything is environmental and genes don't matter for certain things" mindset. Too many people hold an egalitarian view when in really, mother nature doesn't distribute her gifts equally to everyone, never has, and never will.
WFB made an extremely amateurish assumption about the IQ of "comedians". Comedians are extremely intelligent people, whose intelligence is overlooked because their "craft" can easily be written off as "childish", scatological, prurient, etc. etc. Comedians are actually crypto intellectuals in many cases, hiding behind a facade of a clown. And BTW, Bever was dunked on by Herrnstein, if this "debate" had been held at MSG he would have been planted 6 feet under the basket after this bloodbath was over.
@@proudatheist2042 "MSG" is Madison Square Garden arena in NYC. Guess you're not a sports fan. The six feet under reference is a simple metaphor to highlight the fact that Herrnstein destroyed Bever in that debate, that's all. Bever obfuscated and talked in circles the entire time.
It is obvious that IQ tests are somewhat valid as to what to achieve in life in general. However I do believe that some factors do hinder intellectual achievement and capability.
I think it’s v interesting psychologically speaking, although isn’t the standard IQ test designed for left brained individuals? Would that not therefore be biased - and aren’t right brain dominant people more intelligent in their critically thinking ability as opposed to being able to remember reams and reams of data. I think an interaction of left brain and right brain qualities are the best scenario (integrative)
“If those (mental) capacities are required for success in society” is the presumption that shatters his argument as there are many environmental factors that overwhelm mental capacities for success in society e.g. privilege, poverty, skin colour, geographical situation, gender, generational subversion and trauma. Not taking these into account leads to such a blinkered view it could only come from a privileged perspective.
21:40 Host says a comedian doesn't have a high IQ. I disagree. Comedians speak truth to power while appearing as fools. Historically, these 'fool' have been some of the most pattern-recognizing autistic, ever. You just don't see it. And that's the point.
I don't trust THAT moustache, in particular. Sorry guy, you lose this one. Plus the other guy's presentation of facts, as he understands them to be facts and presents them as such.
Old Paul Rudd vs Old, gayER Giraldo Rivera...who wins? Giraldo is now a vested Columbia professor with the biggest moustache that he's ever had, while, Paul Rudd went from a Hollyweird actor to a well spoken statistician. Paul Rudd for the WIN.
