Riding the Lightning: The Electric Motorcycle Revolution // Podcast E08 

I drive my bike to hear it purr, pop the exhaust and scream RPM... There is no upside in electric for me :D

LED headlights? Remember when the H4 Halogen headlight was a major improvement over sealed beams? Today, we have LED headlights that are even more powerful than the H4. LED's light output is brighter, whiter, and uses much less energy. Someone will invent a totally differnet way to store electricity, and/or a better way to power a motorcycle, and we wil start to see electric motorcycles that we want to buy.

This was a surprisingly strong and insightful and I went into it with some moderate to high expectations. Good listen. Honestly, I'm '91 and I have had my 4th hand '01 suzuki for 8? years and I replaced most of the electronics but the entire gas system eludes me to this day. If I could get a system that's quieter, less greasy and more programming, I would appreciate that. I still can't figure out why I can't just have a big battery I can swap out at the charging station, plug mine into their charger and leave with "their" in my bike within 5 minuts.

I can see why the next generation might want to go electric. Myself, not a chance in hell I would go electric. Even with all the benefits of electric, there is something missing in the ride for me that the combustible engine has and cant be replaced.

Noise while riding isn’t an issue for street bikes. It’s the wind noise that’s the problem and you should be wearing earplugs every time you ride, whether youre on electric or ICE. The ONLY advantage I can see they have currently is the noise factor with respect to your surrounding environment. Tell me about range anxiety when you don’t have private off-street parking and can’t charge at home (or indeed at work).

Great video! I’m considering going electric after riding Gas for years. Gas prices 😬 🔥 💵

Surron and their clones are the future for offroad.

“Loud pipes save lives”

My concern is getting hit by a car while riding my e cycle, because people can't here me coming up next to them. I seen a Harley Davidson Live wire for the first time yesterday, and I thought it was an awesome looking bike, but again it isn't loud. Also it's a $23,000 motorcycle, my brand new CF Moto costed me only $7,000, my bike gets the same amount of mileage on fuel as the Harley Davidson Live wire does, and I don't have to wait an hour for my bike to charge. I think it would be fun, and great to see more e cycles, and to see what we could do with them, but I also don't trust other drivers. One last thing, I don't like people enough to want to sit in a service station for an hour waiting for my bike to charge up, I like going to the gas station and paying my $10 for gas, and then leaving. I was a recluse before COVID, and I still am now.

LoL😂

e-bike....yeahhhh...nothing change.... it suck years ago..its still suck now😂😂

You are both high. E-bikes wont work. Inside the city scooters? Sure. But not for real touring or riding with passenger. Synthetic fuels are the future with combustion engines. EV cars and bikes will never be the solution.

Sorry I'm not going electric in my car or my bike. Soulless machines plus they can't get rid of the batteries. It's being forced on us. Cart in front of the buggy now.

I'm partial to ICE powered bikes because I'm not a commuter. I ride to get away from the daily grind, so I will put 200 - 300 miles in on a given Saturday. If solid-state becomes the way and the range goes up with very short charging times, now you've got me! I'd have one of each! I do wonder if the materials needed for solid-state batteries are less harmful to procure than lithium is. But I love that there are options to suit everyone's tastes and desires. Long live choice! On the need for service or parts, in addition to riding gear, my local Cycle Gear store sells and installs tires and I can order all manner of parts and accessories from them or their sister companies. I'm also blessed to have a retired mechanic working out of his garage who will do all the wrenching that my bike needs without the added overhead incurred from going to a traditional service department at a dealership or other mechanic shop. Aside from that, this was a truly interesting discussion to watch and about so much more than just electric vs. ICE. Thanks for putting this out there, Dave! I especially enjoyed the discussion about evolving dealership concepts. I'd definitely ride to my local dealership more often for a coffee and a snack, then do a littel shopping for this and that while there.

These are the only specs I care about when going electric. 1. Being able to cover 150kms with one full 100% charge, going average of 80-100kph 2. Full charging time of less than 1 hour 3. Be able to use the conventional power socket for charging 4. Affordable package I really don't care about the power and torque, most are already overkill for street riding. I don't care about the looks, damn the looks. I don't care about the lack of sound. I don't care about the tech aides whatever. I just want to ride.

I will NEVER embrace the EV rubbish, I don't care how much torque they produce.

If they can get the weight down and the range up i will own one. All three of my bikes have stock mufflers because of the noise. I would love to have a silent motorcycle i could hear nothing but wind.

2nd comment nearly as inspiring. I want an electric touring bike.

Living in an apartment complex, with no charging stations, electric vehicles are no use to me. I'm not going out of my way to spend ages waiting for an EV to charge, when it takes a few minutes to refuel. There's millions of people in similar situations to me, so you'd end up with major queues at the few public charging stations. Eventually, EV's will be everywhere, but the infrastructure needs to be built first, not the other way around that some people want (i.e. forcing people to change to an EV now before we've got the capability to support it)

What we are seeing today are prototypes. We will see totally different things when they are required in Europe. What we see today, are commuter bikes. 120-190 mile range?! I live in Kanab, UT. The routes that I ride, are 120 to 300 miles. Find a hi-output recharge source? good luck. There is a gas station on every corner, and it takes only a couple minutes to refill. Riding to work, makes sense. My syster-in-law has a Chevy Bolt. She asked (with a snarky tone), when was I going to get an electric motorcycle? Let's see, she has four cars. Yes, when I have four motprcycles, I can assure you, one of them will be electric. I look forward to seeing "real" batteries.

maybe interesting but hearing "like"(...) "like" (...) "like" every few seconds is too dumbing.

1st comment always inspiring

will E-bikes raise fire risk?

A very, very interesting conversation. 😃👍❤🏍 I can relate very much to having a "quiet" ride. When I am out on my mountain bike I always appreciate being able to hear everything around me.

Wow a lot to unpack here. First I am quite struck by the parallels between the evolution of MotoGp and dirt bikes from two stroke to four stroke. Much of the resistance and hand wringing that went on with that evolution is similar to some of what you are seeing now. I also see some interesting things in your discussion of how some of the E-Bike evolution is being spearheaded by those outside of traditional motorcycle circles. I wonder if part of this is as you say a direct result of the recession. Before that "tradition" was everything. Part of what brought Harley Davidson to where they are now was them capitalizing on many people viewing them as what they saw as a motorcycle when they were a kid. People in the motorcyle industry to a great extent have been serving that tradition. The Japanese manufacturers resisted the 60 degree V-Twin as an inferior design, but ultimately made them because that is what motorcyclists wanted. Because the number of traditional motorcylists has gotten smaller, now looking for customers that are not traditional makes as much sense as pleasing the old guard. You touched also on the hub mounted drive, and removing the rear tire. It seems to me that a single sided swingarm pretty much solves that fairly easily. As far as unsprung weight, a hub mounted drive could possibly reduce the need for as bulky a swingarm by at least some, offsetting a smaller motor. Also but using a hub mounted drive, two wheel drive motorcycles could easily be a thing. Consider also that and electric motor could possibly even replace traditional braking systems with the motor. As far as being able to change gear ratios. a swingarm mounted hub drive could easily move in and out allowing for different teeth drive gears. Lastly you talked about where are gas stations going to go. That evolution began decades ago. Gas stations have not been service stations for years, they are virtually all convenience stores now. I dont think the transition to electric will even be a small blip on their radar. Similarly I believ that dealerships will evolve as needed. You touched on how adaptable the ebikes could be. Rather than compare them to motorcycles, lets compare them to computers and software. Early windows versions worked on a DOS based system and worked more like a traditional filing system. Todays computers work on a windows based system which is far more intuitive to people that have grown up with apps rather than traditional programs. I see an E Bike also having a more intuitive feel to new riders. Switch gears rather than shift a transmission, makes sense to them. Having many different ways to configure things to suit their needs makes sense. Maybe a smaller, lighter battery for someone that only commutes 10 miles to work. Maybe a bigger one for someone that only does weekend daytrips. More storage for one person, a sportier look and different power map for those with a need for speed. This evolution is likely to show us things we have never seen before and some of us old guard will fight it but in the long run, the new version will appeal to some and if we look at the positive side will likely improve motorcycles in the long run. Cleaner, more consistent power, maybe less maintenence. We will have to see.

Interesting but what about hydrogen powered two wheelers. Maybe that is an alternative future coming!

Good stuff Dave

I'm not convinced in electrification. It would require a complete overhaul of the nation's power grid. The amount of electrical demand full electric would require just in the US alone is mind boggling. We would have to upgrade everything to a massive extent. Not impossible, but it definitely wouldn't be "green", so whats the point? Electrification of our cars is a benefit to environment if we can supply the electricity without massive amounts of emissions. Currently we are nowhere close to that point.

Well the infrastructure still sucks. Until they get that done all of the talk is irrelevant. If you ride in the mountains like I do you can get fuel anxiety looking for gas. Just don’t see charging stations popping up at campgrounds throughout Appalachia. Commuting maybe, touring, off roading, no way. And most of the guys I’ve met running the Smokey Mountain 500 each year have been young and they’re definitely in it for the Brappppppp. They can’t get charging stations up on I-75 so they’re sure not gonna put charging stations near the BDRs anyway. Can’t remember hearing anyone in Tellico Plains, Suches or Deals Gap talking about electrics. The only time I ever here talk about them is on Utube. I just don’t think there’s an appetite for them nor a viable market right now.

I’ve owned a Zero Electric FXS since 2018. I love the motorcycle, however, the customer service experience with Zero and their authorized dealers have not been so good on the most minor repairs. The experience is disorganized and just sloppy. Do you believe any of the larger EV automakers will consider acquiring Zero to shore up the customer service experience?

Until battery tech gets better and lighter and fast charging happens - most e-motorbikes are going to remain a niche product. It would also have to involve companies that aren't solely funded through VC and trying to focus on the wrong things aka Damon. There is a ton of fraud in the EV start up world and motorbikes aren't immune to it. Also there is nothing revolutionary about EV's. They are literally replacing one ecological disaster with another.

Form follows funtion. Why don't monoshock dirt bikes look like a "real" motorcycle... a Harley dresser? An electric motorcycle still has two gyros and form should untilize this. However, gas tanks, engines, transmissions. Get real.

Motorcycles are designed by racers, and we always get a seat that is a flat plank. Why? Because they want to slide half of their butt off the side to force a motorcycle into corners at race speed. Ride one of these seats on a long tour, and you will feel your two sit bones all day long. Corbin builds seats that are curved not only side-to-side, but also fore and aft. Your entire fanny is cupped by the seat. On the street, if you need to slide off the bike to make the corner, you are riding too fast for the street! Most bikes are sold to non-racers, especially heavy touring motorcycles. Yet, the designer will give you the flat, racer's seat. Good grief. And, these are the people designing new electric motorcycles.

Those centers are never coming back. Motorcycles are not pushed out only because of exhaust noise. People are complaining because they don't like motorcycles, the people that right them or they just want to complain. You can make arguments for e-anything which is fine but to make it because of noise? Some people say loud pipes save lives!

Consider the implications of an SSA hub motor combination. You can address gear reduction and wheel removal with a single solution.

I live 25 miles from the nearest town. Most of them I have looked at scare me from range. I can't even ride my gas bike without filling it up on the way home.

$2k to change a tire on a Tesla. 🙄🙄🙄

I was surprised how much time was devoted to things that don’t exist and may never exist: solid state batteries, Fuel, and Damon ( I guess Damon is selling T-Shirts and building a factory). On the the other hand there was no discussion of Energica which supplied the bikes for emoto racing, has a greater that 100 mile real world range and DC fast charging. Realistically, personal electric devices will cut into sales electric bike and small electric motorcycles for city use. Electric Unicycles are a blast, some can easily be taken on public transportation and fit under a desk. They are evolving suspension and off road capabilities. I’m not sure what the future will hold but, but ICE bikes will likely fade away.

An interesting discussion and it will be even more interesting to see which parts of this will come true. As for the e motorcycle, if they can overcome the weight and range issues they will be the future. But your right the older generation will need to be sold this as they won't be swapping overnight. 🤓 Ride on and ride well 🤓

Hybrid is the logical next step for motorcycle powertrains. Quiet and simple, with minimal range anxiety.

In terms of commuting it might make sense for me personally as I is a 38 mile round trip, but when it comes to rideouts or heading to the inlaws for the weekend, 150 miles each way its just not feasible. Aside from that there's only 3 I would even entertain, zero srs, livewire and the te1 and only 1 of them is faired and looks too small anyway. In terms of racing, 7 lap races, what's the point. So basically I won't be entertaining an electric bike

Loud pipes save lives tho