I've heard of a situation when a well known western car brand sued a Chinese brand for copying a 10 year old design. The Chinese company tried to counter sue and claimed the 10 year old design were their own. Their company didn't even exist when that particular model was sold in the west.
@@Danse_Macabre_125 It's possible but from what we saw in the video, there are more examples of this. However, that X5 clone was a complete mess. Rusted in record time.
In rthe 1920s, Opel made the "Laubfrosch", a blatant copy of a Citroen. The only difference was the color. While the Citroen was available in yellow, the Opel was sold in green. Citroen lost their case, but the incidents lives on a a Berlin proverb "the same in green".
Hahaha nice story! But it does show that copying someone else is not China exclusive. Through the research I found some other non-Chinese carmakers that when just starting out, also copied western world designs.
I like watches, and the fanciest watches come from Switzerland. The cheapest watches come from China, and you can get many a Chinese clone of a better known Swiss watch. But how did this happen? Well about a hundred years ago, the best watches were British and French, and the Swiss started copying them to create cheap knock-offs. A century later, Swiss watch making has completely usurped the British and French traditions it originally copied, and now they're the ones being knocked off. China right now stands exactly where Switzerland was a century ago, and that's exciting. History indicates that imitation is only the beginning. Next comes innovation.
Fun fact: the pink Chery QQ Me is designed by the same Italian guy who designed the Alfa Romeo GTV and the post 2000 Lancia Thema, where in the later part of his career he likes to design cars with the front and rear looking exactly the same…
Fun fact. The VW Santana is a version of the VW Passat B2 made for the brazilian market, and its only called Santana because VW decided to sell both the Passat B1 and B2 at the same time in Brazil
Fun fact, no. This was sold in Europe. 5 doors and estate cars were called Passat B2 and 4 doors called Santana. Probably to differentiate and move it upmarket in the same way a 4 door golf sedan isn't called a golf but a Jetta
I just realised that the Mercedes SLK/Renault Megane Convertible lookalike BYD S8 shown at 9:48 was built by BYD. That's the exact BYD that's now the leading EV manufacturer, the same BYD that will supply batteries to Tesla and the same BYD that's going into a partnership with Toyota. It's crazy to see how fast they've grown and are growing, considering they were only founded 19 years ago.
Well, no surprise if chinese govenment wants to conquer the world with Chinese goods, and they subsidise those important industries. In the west we kind of forgot or stopped caring I feel like.
About china and knockoffs, there was this segway knockoff, ninebot. they got so big and so rich off undercutting their rivals that they bought the original and now own segway entirely. its crazy sometimes
Hello Ed, greetings from the other side of the great internet firewall. I'm a Chinese guy and honestly I chuckled a lot during this video, I've been watching your channel for a while and I'm amazed by the efforts and research you did for the videos!
Here’s the thing….I always save channel watches on here until an evening when I have free time. This channel has now transcended that as I made anything I had to do this morning wait so I could watch this immediately. Ah, the crafty Chinese. The reasons and arguments they make for….copying western cars….is well laid out. It just is what it is. They don’t think like we do in respect to intellectual property….understatement if I have ever said one. Very stoked for part 3 and where all this could be going!! Great work, Ed!
And it's not only cars: back in 1981, when Jean-Michel Jarre was officially invited to play in Beijing and Shanghai, he was flabbergasted to discover that the tour promoters offered him a comprehensive collection of knock-off equipment: fake EMS VCS-3, Korg Polyphonic and Mini Moog synthesisers but also fakeNagra and Revox tape recorders, mixers, consoles, effects, loudspeaker cabinets, you name it. The rare ones they hadn't time to copy were the most recent ones (like the Electro-Harmonix mini-synth (huge success among the young Chinese audience) and his bespoke unique custom made equipment and prototypes like the laser harp or the matri-sequencer...
2:28 There is something wrong! One car per 6 million people is not nearly enough. In 1985, there were about 1.05 billion people living in China. If only one in 6 million had a car, that would be a total of only 175 cars... for the whole of China! According to "statista", there were 790,000 cars in 1985. Or, *one car for 1329 people.* Which still means a lot of cyclists and pedestrians, back then.
You are right! It's at least off, and in the rush of things I should've checked. I swear I have read the '6 million' statistic somewhere in a source, but haven't checked my source good enough. Thanks!
It is a bit true. There were Not many cars in China back then. They were poor. Lots of bicycles and nowadays many ebikes and only brand new cars, many from Germany but also knockoff copycat cars.
Or it's the fact that no one buys them at all, the Chinese buy a lot of Jeep Wranglers, which are built in the US. Local built models are not really that popular over there. Ex-FCA had always been struggling in the past a few years in China.
Some years ago a good friend of mine bought a brand new Chery QQ, his reasoning being "it was cheaper than the others, and its a car after all". Little did he know. All of the sudden paint began to flake and fall off under the filling cap, rattles on all of the panels, front suspension noises under normal conditions, clickety noises under the dash every time he turned the steering wheel to park, a real beauty. Til one fateful day, some drunkard driving a pickup truck smashed into it while the car was parked by the street. He rang me up to go see the aftermath and the sight was pretty bad. Car ended up on the sidewalk, half rear completely crushed into the cabin, pieces of metal going as far as the front driver seat. Totaled as per insurance company report. So yeah, there is something to be said about those little death traps. They suck big time ass.
The Chinese car brands are all over South America and they are great. I was impressed with the quality of the interiors, they felt like Range Rover interiors on the base model SUV. I think people in South America buy the Chinese brands because they are more affordable. Also, I think most people would still buy a European or Japanese brand if money was not an issue. My thought after driving in a Chinese SUV was " wow, if they are like this now imagine how much better they will be in 10 years". I presume the Chinese must also be transitioning into electric vehicles? I live in USA and don't see any Chinese brands on our roads. Not sure why? Thanks for the great videos, especially the ones on the US land yachts.
Trust me. If the US government can figure out a way to exploit the piss out of the Chinese car company and ass-rape the American people with the sale of each and every Chinese car, you'll see them here in droves.
Having had over thirty years experience in manufacturing, I can assure you that there is a huge difference in quality between a product that was developed by a company, and something that was reversed engineered and copied by another.
Take Matiz/Spark Vs the QQ. The Matiz had better engine and could pass a NCAP crash test with 3 🌟. The QQ was certified a death trap with 0 🌟 because of it's inferior steel and bad copying of the safety features.
@@walterdayrit675 fit, finish, function…it takes YEARS of development to manufacture something as complicated as an automobile. Ignoring just the electrical system, which controls everything on a modern vehicle, the mechanical parts on a car are manufactured to tolerances. There is no such thing as an “exactly” identical part. Without research, and testing and recording failures, how can a part be made or how does one know what specific alloy of steel to use not only for that part to function reliably, but play nice with all the other thousands of parts on a car?
@@walterdayrit675 take for example the American car industry in the 1970’s. They tried to copy the smaller, more efficient Japanese cars having little or no experience making smaller cars, and they were complete GARBAGE.
@@forestfishburne7900 Well, advanced computer simulations as well as "creatively acquired" plans of foriegn vehicles does save YEARS of development. Like it or not, China does have some pretty advanced technologies in their research and manufacturing.
I've been eagerly anticipating this video since I saw Part I of the History of Chinese Automobiles & it certainly doesn't disappoint! Great documentary that's very comprehensive & well done not to mention some really fascinating stuff. The first video in this series really got me into a little phase of learning all about the Chinese car industry + all the weird and wild vehicles that came out of it & are still coming out of it. Looking forward to the next upload! Thanks & great work, Ed!
Thanks! It's absolutely a rabbit hole. And say about China all you want, you can't deny it's at the very least interesting what is going on down there when it comes to cars.
I am an American living in the Philippines, Chinese brands are sold here. At first blush at least, a lot of their offerings look pretty tempting. Good designs with solid technology. However, good luck in the long term with those.
Quality and price are equal, if you only want to spend a little money, then you can only get what is corresponding, of course even the high price is cheaper than the American one, and the quality will be better. And you want to make sure that the store is not importing poor quality goods from China for higher profits Why Chinese goods have a bad reputation in Africa, because those people buy the cheapest goods to sell in Africa
I recall this small automotive company out of Korea, they were building all these cool cars that looked just like the big brands... you had the Sonata, which was basically a Jaguar, then you had the Tiburon which basically looked like a porsche... oh and don't forget the Santa Fe which was basically a RAV4 knockoff
Now don't bring Korea into "copycat" tier with China. Korea manufactured automobiles for the world and relied on shared/licensed platforms with other companies. International scrutiny was on the cars and brands from day one. China didn't need to deal with any of this due to the population and photocopied cars in a failed attempt to look legitimate in a more connected world. Did they try to capture features that Westerners considered positive? Yes, because it is their target audience.
The other small automotive Korean company at that time made a knock-off copy of Opel Kadett called Nexia and a big sedan that looked exactly like an S-Klass, called Chairman.
Where i live, chinese cars have become very common in the streets, in the 2010's they shyly started to appear with passenger cars and now they sold trucks, vans, buses, also they are in the top 10 of the most sold brands.
My god the flattery bit killed me. Been subbed to you since Episode six and I love the info, jokes, and effort that goes into all these videos. Keep it up partner, cheers from Texas by the way
My favorite 'cross breeding' story is how BMW nearly went broke helping Rover build the troubled model 75, the design and tooling for which was then sold to China, which finally turned it into a successful, quality automobile- even to *finally* figuring out how to keep the infamous Rover K-series engines from spewing their coolant over far and wide! : )
I was involved in the asian auto industry during the 80's, 90's and 00's. You sum it up well. Every OEM would start by acquiring "reference vehicles" (competitors products) for tear down and review as part of the development process. It was a time when industries grew, engineers learnt and nations developed, I remember a legal case when a copycat vehicle case was dismissed simply because the original was a different colour. Today nothing changes, transport markets remain to be filled by affordable products which can be produced in profitable volumes and satisfy customer needs. Anything else is greed based politics.
Copying has a simple explanation, that is China started catching up very late into the 2nd industrial revolution, where cars have been invented for more than 100 years to ask a new comer in a country that didn't have the manufacturing knowhow to start pumping out original designs is simply unrealistic. Things have became so complex that the day of ONE inventor coming up with wholly original and Meaningful inventions have gone. Replaced by a team of engineers backed by a lot of money.
Copying will only get you so far. After a certain point, you either move up the value chain with your own designs or you'll be at a dead end competing with other producers of pirated goods. I bet you can't name 10 Chinese brands that aren't garbage off the top of your head. Japan, South Korea, and even Taiwan, have far more recognized brands per capita than China ever will at this rate.
I used to own a Chery QQ 2012. Brand new. It was pretty reliable, believe it or not. The engine and transmission were very tuff, but the drawback was that interior parts were kinda fragile due to cheap plastic that wear-off with time, and eventually broke. The suspension were ok, but I live in Brazil and the roads are very bumpy, so eventually I had to do some maintenance (shock absorvers and some bearings). I did more that 74.000 miles without any maintenance other than oil and tire changes, a dead battery and timing belts. I had to sold because I need a bigger car, but I him a lot. Very economic, fun to drive and it's size is excelent for bumper-to-bumper traffic.
Nice & interesting video (but you got 6 in there twice...). Those Santanas were everywhere in China when I lived there. You couldn't spit without hitting one.
Along with the Santana VW also partnerred with China on another VW, a version of the MK2 Jetta/Bora. Like the Santana these MK2 Jettas continued to be manufactured in China up until about the same time as the Santana, around 2013. Aside from some cosmetic changes to the front and rear to modernize it and also somehow fitting a variation of the VW Corrado dashboard into them in later years it was the same exact MK2 we all loved in the 1980's. I'd kill to be able to import a recent chinese MK2 Jetta as I loved the MK2 VW's and it would hugely unique to have here in the US.
I remember when chinese cars began to sell in my country.... You would see them on the road for a couple years and then vanish after that. So far the only Chinese maker that has laster longer than 3 years in Jin Bei (which only sells knock off Toyota Hiace). It have a few others, but they are not popular at all.
Meanwhile on the motorcycle front: I own a Chinese built dirt bike with an *exact* copy of a Yamaha 2 stroke engine, Honda suspension and a KTM frame. It's actually quite nice. It's honestly of equal or better quality to the Japanese dirt bikes of the 90's and early 00's that I've owned (some from new)...and those were pretty solid machines. Also, the Chinese motor company, Shineray, just made international news with the release of "their" new engine, an *almost* exact copy of a Harley Davidson air cooled Sportster engine.
To be clear, I did not click on the video because I wanted to see Chinese knock-off automobiles (I have a drawer if Chinese knock-off designer watches) I clicked on the video because it was an Ed's Auto Review video, which are always well-researched, informative and highly entertaining. Doesn't matter what country is making the cars, I know an EAR video will tell me something I didn't know (or poke my nostalgia buttons when covering cars that are more local...even cars that never made it past the concept stage, but that my 10 year-old self remembers from 50's & 60's Popular Mechanic or Car Illustrated magazines.) You are simply my younger-self's new source.
@@jeffross5424 wtf are you talking about? The only MG brand is Morris Garages, the chinese own the brand now as i said, and lets be honest when it was british they made pure shit on wheels
Dude copycat era is long gone in China, i can't believe you posted this like it is an actual situation, most of the models you show are older than 2010
Many parts for my MK2 VW's are cheaper now than they were twenty years ago, thanks to Chinese adoption of them (the Jetta particularly) as a sort of 'UR- car'. Indeed, VW was forced to run the model for at least one extra year strictly for demand from both police and taxi drivers for what had become a standardized design.
A minor point, but considering how close, geographically Japan is to China, and with so many cultural similarities between the 2 countries, I am a bit surprised that China opted to adopt left hand drive for their vehicles. Tho, considering how there were very few right hand drive American and European cars...very understandable.
Really rather hope episode three delivers because yanks and euros have been stuck on this "look at that unsafe Chinese copycat car" trope on repeat for what seems like decades and most seem unable to grasp that this is ancient history by the standards of the Chinese car market.
9:00 alledgedly chairman visited holland and heard the phrase: beter goed gejat dan slecht verzonnen
2 года назад
my mom actually drove a lifan 320 for years, it was provided by the company she worked for. quirky and toylike, it was sold in brazil for a while, but it's been a minute since I've seen one running lol
@@enzoperruccio Renault at least has enough presence to grant proper servicing & parts to costumers. The Chinese haven't put their two feet on the Brazilian market just yet. I have heard plenty of people saying that once you get yourself one of those Lifans, JACs or whatever else you simply cannot find spare parts for them. That's more likely the reason they have vanished like that.
@@peekaboo1575 Great Wall's "Wingle" truck lineup has been selling like hotcakes for almost 8 years here with minor design changes, so there's plenty of spare parts available for those.
One of the things about the Knockoff cars is they make the Tata Nano look like a Volvo Semi in a crash test by comparison. If you’re paper boy missed the porch and hit the car, you’d better have good replacement insurance! 😂
In my country China basically dominates the utility market. Their vehicles are simple, cheap and will handle anything you throw at them. No one cares about brand recognition when you need an affordable workhorse.
Here in Saudi Arabia chinase cars weren't a thing until the early 2010s with only geely cars. And they were literally EVERYWHERE and then suddenly by 2018 different chinase cars from different brands invaded the market. Where ever you go you will see a chinase car. Even more than Toyotas sometimes. And every car has a freakin more complicated name than the other one
China maybe coming fast but their fuel tank is running on empty! Look at their money and property markets these days. Anyway another great effort Ed, keep them coming!
and China is the Biggest reason why Buick escaped the chopping block during the GM Bankruptcy in 2009, and why one of the 4 remaining current models is made in China (the Envision)
Hi Ed, great episode as always, keep up the good work. With regards to the "Li-Fan" copy of the Mini I must say that Daihatsu had made a far better copy with the Trevis. But oops, they are Japanese...
Copying is an art in itself. The Middle Kingdom is back whether y'all like it or not. At least we didn't willingly and happily gave away all of our manufacturing sector and jobs purely out of greed and profits at the expense of the people's jobs and the nation's future.
The interesting thing about the VW Santana is it was originally an older Passat model made for the Brazilian market, as well as being briefly made and sold by Nissan in Japan, where they had to change the bonnet mouldings to account for the fact that the windscreen wipers turn the other way. This is actually more than can be said for cars like the Peugeot 206, second-generation Renault Clio and E60 BMW 5-series, where they didn't actually bother to change the windscreen wipers around for RHD models!
The scary part is that it's not just the car industries that are being copied, but a whole lot other of industries as well, whom they thought China was a lucrative market (oh boy they were wrong). By forcing a joint venture, Chinese companies (and the CCP who's controlling it from behind) are allowed to simply take whatever they want (designs, technologies, you name it) and use it to produce the same type of products for a much cheaper price and dominates foreign markets with it. They even used some of the technologies and the earned cash which can be directly transferred for military use to bump up their military power and presence and...voila, that's the modern China.
AH YES! The GREAT Vw Santana! An Luxurious sedan with the AMAZING AP Engine. A SHAME It didn't last as long in Brazil as it did in China, those cars and engines were Great!!
Crazy to think there were almost no cars in mid-80's China. By that time they developed into a fairly urbanized society and cars were plentiful even in poor countries, but China was still largely on bicycles.
Back in the mid 2000's I worked for a machine tool manufacturer in Canada and one of our salesmen was in China trying to sale equipment and saw several machines that looked like our machines . In fact, they were bolt for bolt the same as we made . Long story short the whoever is still making equipment and my place shut down 2009 .
