In my opinion that river isn’t underutilized space. The river brings so much aesthetics to the area. They should put Cars where they PROMISED, behind big thunder mountain where they have plenty of space btw. This isn’t about Tom Sawyer Island, it’s about the river and losing that. Why can’t they remove the back portion of the river and keep the front?
Exactly. It was a good compromise at Disneyland for Galaxy's Edge -- and honestly what most people were expecting. My suspicion is the reaction for Villains was so big they decided they wanted more expansion room for that and couldn't fit Cars up there too.
Losing the Rivers of America is a huge mistake. How can anyone walk and relax by that area of the park - my favorite part of the MK - and think it's not beautiful or important? Walt Disney would be appalled by this news. Walt knew change was a necessary part of keeping theme parks alive, but he would have found a creative way to do it without paving over the river. Ugh : (
walt Disney would be appalled by your attitude he wanted people to come to his park and the whole family to enjoy it ! Even when he was alive he even shook things up he went from having indians , pack mules and horses back riding to pirates of Caribbean, Haunted Mansion etc etc !
@@HEAVENWON You clearly have little to no respect for Walt Disney. I'm not surprised you can't see the beauty of the Rivers of America. I'm appalled by that.
I honestly think this is the one of the worst decisions Disney has ever made. I am just so shocked that they think getting rid of Rivers Of America is a good idea. If Disney thinks water landscapes are a waste of space, then why don't they fill in World Showcase Lagoon, and build more countries and rides there! Those quite, relaxed park moments are so rare, but are so special to experience. ROA provided that. Being on the boat looking out onto the park, the bustling people, truly some really special core memories. Magic Kingdom will never be the same again. I'm still in disbelief this is happening
MK is not designed to be relaxing. When you pay millions of dollars for land, then you can decide to use it for a bit of water rather than rides. Just because they already own the land, does not mean they need to waste it.
I’m fine with Tom Sawyer going. But I don’t like that they’re taken the river boat and rivers of America away. Why can’t they put cars land somewhere else? That’s why walt brought all that land in Florida to expand.
They literally can’t because the empty space is going to be villains land! That means simply they cannot! Plus they need extra space for their 5th theme park!
People forever underestimate the power and significance of water areas. It's just one more thing that cant be quantified in a revenue sheet and therefore is going by the wayside. The water adds to the entire land, and is visible from a handful of major attractions. I truly do not understand why a project to reimagine the river into a more highly utilized river and island "something" couldn't be done. Thats creativity, pushing the box and plussing an area. Paving it all over is the easy way out, a decision that turns a blind eye to the value of having a calm space, and a decision that is basically irreversible.
I totally agree-looking at the water is calming and soothing and with all the hot weather in Florida it makes you feel color. This would be tragic to get rid of the river.
It’s a wide open area with just a few attractions. I think that was their intentions when building it too. A massive body of water for boats, rafts, and an island. The sound of the horn, the reflections of the fireworks in the water. It’s the simple things. It really is calming. Especially on a packed day, walking on the docks really makes you feel less claustrophobic. Adding cars land just makes it feel so packed. You’re losing a wide open area and trees and replacing it with concrete. When you’re in the area you’ll be surrounded and only see the sky.
To me, the Rivers of America reinforces the importance of rivers in most of civilization. What's next? Paving over the Mississippi? I think the area could be smaller, but not ELIMINATED. This is ridiculous.
It also adds to the aesthetic of the park. I was just looking at the pictures I took from there several years back. It is a great place to relax and snap some photos. It's a nice slow ride and break from the hectic pace of the park and the lines. That's great for the parents and the kids.
I am completely against this. This is one of the worst decision Disney has ever made, let alone at Magic Kingdom. And here’s a question for you. Why didn’t Josh D’Amaro reveal this info DURING the panel on Saturday? Why did they wait to reveal this information AFTER D23 was over? It’s because they knew fans would boo them. They wanted to avoid that. They don’t care. This is such a huge slap in the face to Walt and Roy Disney and all of us Based on this logic of “space”, let’s plow over World Showcase lagoon at EPCOT, Echo Lake at Hollywood Studios, all of the waterways at MK and Animal Kingdom, the original Rivers of America at Disneyland. No seriously, let’s do it now that this is the new norm.
Well Disney has already compromised the original Rivers of America at Disneyland for a Star Wars-themed land that did not work out, but thankfully the river traffic is still operating.
Removing the island and river is a horrible idea. They should not call this an expansion- EXPANSION MEANS ADDING! NOT REMOVING AND REPLACING ! First the shooting arcade, now this? Big let down
This! They are calling it the biggest expansion in park history, but only villain's land is an actual expansion. With only two rides there, it seems like the equivalent of adding Galaxy's Edge at Disneyland.
Stop! Leaves more area for expansion!?1? They have 43 SQUARE MILES of land! Theming is completely gone and you're making excuses for it. "Putting the park back in theme park" Universal. "Lets get rid of anything beautiful and park-like" Disney. The fact that they hid this until D23 was over shows that they know how unpopular this will be. Maybe the Monsters ride should replace Echo Lake, that is so much unused space. Let's fill in Bay Lake! Imagine how much unthemed DVC could go in there!
This is horrid! I’ve never been more disappointed with a Disney decision. Usually I see a bright side within plans but this just seems bad. There’s no good side to this. It’s not even a good idea for an expansion. It’s just cars. It’s going to be so ugly.
Disney is so obsessed now with copying the “movie based attractions” of Universal parks, that they have forgotten how to create unique immersive attractions that are NOT based on a movie. Most of the attractions at the Magic Kingdom in its early decades were not based on a Hollywood movie, including Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean and Hall of Presidents. So sad that they feel they have to use their movies as a source for an attraction idea.
Existing IP is what people want to see. This is the case in many different business's movies, TV, LEGO, Pinball, video games new IP doesn't sell nearly as well as existing franchises, that's just a fact.
I think it's ironic that they added green space in Epcot and are removing it in the MK. I get that they had the space in Epcot and that MK area is very valuable real estate. Reminds me of housing sprawl a bit. I'm sure it will be nice. As someone who has visited since the early 70s I'm bummed that I won't hear the boat horn anymore. That is always in the background and transports me. But I understand the drive for change.
Just shy of 50% of the attractions at Disneyland opening day 1955 and Magic Kingdom in 1971 were based on Disney movies and TV shows. At Disneyland in 1955 there were also a handful of corporate sponsor exhibits, and I'm not counting Main St. vehicles which run up the attraction count, but don't really count. According to the sources I could find, the last non-IP attraction (I mean a ride, not a show or parade or meet and greet...) for Disneyland was Innoventions (if you want to count that) and Astro Orbiters, both in 1998. For Magic Kingdom it was Astro Orbiter in 1995. So 25-30 years. By IP I mean any relationship to existing Disney movie, TV show, character, etc. So, I caution that "most of the attractions" is factually true but kind of an overstatement. But the point is valid that while slightly more than half were non-IP at opening, they have essentially not pursued non-IP attractions "in decades," at the domestic castle parks, at least. The reason for that is clear, of course...we all rejected Superstar Limo from 2001 and they've had cold feet ever since! 😀
I think Tom isn't understanding why ppl are upset. It's not about the "attractions" that we are losing but the atmosphere. Frontierland is beautiful, serene, and iconic. This is destroying the ambiance that has been charming guests for decades - and for what? A stupid cars ride. None of the surviving rides in the area will feel the same after this.
If that was true (I doubt he doesn't get that) it would be ironic because he's always talking about atmosphere and how the latest Disney additions to Hotels are generic and bland looking.
Just because a Cars attraction is moving in doesn’t mean that’s what you’ll see from Frontierland. You can tell in the concept art that they plan to craft the sight lines to make sure guests can’t see the Cars ride and instead see a landscape of trees, natural rocks, and waterfalls.
Wow I can’t believe how much you have changed your outlook since they offered you the job of promoting the corporate agenda sorry but they are destroying Walt’s vision they have room to expand not destroy more concrete done just because they can doesn’t mean they should!!!!!!!!!
@@EverScrollsI feel like he shills for Disney because they either pay him to, or most likely he is shilling for them because he doesn’t wanna get taken off the media list
@@myblujl7503 clearly you should never design a theme park, like ever if you’re really that ignorant as to how things work……HELLLLLLLO concrete is hot, a water source cools people down. My Gods a kid with a basic education can understand that.
I am not all that concerned with the island. They could have stopped access to the island years ago. But removing the river and the boat, will forever ruin the land. Sorry, but cars with faces driving around the middle of the land is not good show, and only furthers Disney's need to dispose of themeing in favor of in your face IP. I would have been ok with the river being shortened like they did in Disneyland. They could have put the ride behind Big thunder and expand on the mountain range, I think that could have worked. Sorry Tom, I understand your point, but I have to disagree.
I agree with Tom. It will be disappointing to lose the river boat and aesthetics of that area. However, the position of Big Thunder and Haunted Mansion makes it impractical to use the land behind it without getting rid of the river. I also think the river is the least attractive of the parks I’ve been to (MK, Tokyo, and DL). The good news is unlike Disneyland, there are plenty of boats you can still ride across the Seven Seas lagoon, whether to the TTC or resorts. I would be much more sad if those went away. It’s hard to tell with the concept art but hopefully they will still have some water features in that area.
It’s sad to see Tom like this. This is not the same energy when he truly likes something or dislikes something. It seems that media access has had an effect on him.
So, Tom, when Disney announced closing the Frontierland shooting range you guys were pretty livid, but now, when they want to get rid of the whole middle of the park, you're all good? This would destroy the heart of MK and you guys are just "shoulders shrug"? Walt Disney didn't even like cars, the plans for his future dream cities avoided cars whenever possible.
It’s not that it isn’t a tragedy to lose, it’s the hard fact that the Magic Kingdom is the most visited park and in reality, if you see a massive plot of land that is not popular, the general audience for that park doesn’t really care about it, and congests traffic for expansion, then it’s a no brainer from a purely business perspective. I hate that it’s going away but I can’t deny that for this specific park, there isn’t some logic to it. Whereas with the Frontierland shooting arcade, there are plenty of small areas to build new DVC venues around the park and out of all the unused space, they picked this. This ain’t for an increase in capacity or any real big advancement, just for another lounge most people will not be able to go. I would love for them to move this cars thing somewhere else if they are set on doing it in the magic kingdom is fine, just beyond big thunder mountain and shorting the rivers instead of closing it would be awesome, but I can’t deny that this is one of those decisions that makes sense looking at it purely in a business fashion. It’s unfortunate because I think a lot of the best parts of the park are what defies real business narrative and spending money to do things that really do. It contribute to profit and just give life to the area of the park, which the RoA does, unfortunately it’s also just an insanely massive plot of potential land.
Walt wouldn’t want a Pixar ip land in the middle of Magic Kingdom, this doesn’t bring something unique to the castle parks it’s more of a sore thumb that doesn’t fit with Frontierland (as if bayou adventure couldn’t be much of that)
Sorry, but this sucks. Everything that made Walt Disney World Parks different is disappearing and they are becoming like any other park. Full of concrete, and IP theming that becomes obsolete in a few years. Not to mention the ‘themed’ resorts which are more like chain hotels. I’m glad I had many happy visits as I won’t be going back
What are they thinking? Without the Rivers of America, this area will not only feel like a sterile, dry waste land. It will become a very, very hot! The large waters have a cooling effect on this area of the park. Allowing for large areas of stagnate air to be carried out. Next time you are at the park, try standing by the rivers and just watch the surface of the water and you will see how much wind passes over the water. What do they think will happen once it is filled in? All I can say is they have lost their minds. I have to say, I am and have been a BIG WDW fan for all my life. My family have been going to WDW since 1972. But after this starts, I do not see going back to the Magic Kingdom again. It is sad, but a reality. I have to ask as a closing thought, if they are willing to chop RoA and TSI, (which some may not see as classic attractions, but they are certainly classic and peaceful locations) then what is next? We have seen how they have already de-themed the resorts to some degree, then this... I do not think we have seen the last of these poor decisions P.S. Why would I want to ride a cars ride at WDW, when I have already drove in hours of hair raising traffic on I-4? After surviving that, I need to set by a peaceful and scenic location. lol
@@imtired1696 👋😁 “…only feel like a sterile, dry waste land.” 😒🙄 I saying without the water feature, it’s going to get very hot. This is Florida climate, totally different creature from California.
@@randomclipsanddisneytrips the point they're making is Grizzly Peak HAS water. As will this. Same with RSR when you drive by the waterfall. If anything, rushing waters should have *more* of a cooling effect than mostly stagnant water. Edit: This isn't to say losing RoA and TSI isn't bad, but rather that the idea this will make Frontierland hotter is more than likely not true.
@@randomclipsanddisneytrips You are correct. Any body of water causes a "lake wind affect". It will be hotter without it. But the VIEW will be completely altered as well. The dynamics of the entire environment will change!
I think no longer having a river front -- and all the incredible, scenic views that provides -- will be a major, major loss for the Magic Kingdom. The concept art for the Cars stuff, in isolation, looks great, and I think if it were going “beyond” Big Thunder Mountain, most everybody would be thrilled. But I think there's now every chance Frontierland (and Liberty Square) are going to feel much more hectic and closed-in.
I don't think anyone's inclined to care though. Listen to the language surrounding the change used by the people covering it and you'll repeatedly hear some variation of "not used to gain maximum value." That's not aesthetic value or value of design for guest experience, that's shareholder value. Parks needs to cover up a lot of bad decisions while still showing infinite growth and even the current C-suite has to realize another gate is an impractical solution. For a fraction of that cost it's MUCH easier to bulldoze existing parts of MK and hope the promise of not having to fly to Anaheim to ride Cars will bring in another few good quarters.
So much for the cooling effect of water and trees. And people complain that Toy Story Land has no shade. 😂. All that new cement should add at least 5-10 degrees to your already sweltering Florida heat. 🔥
I don’t want the Liberty Belle and the island to go. We go EVERY SINGLE TRIP. We love these attractions they are my family’s escape it’s fun to go over there and play hide and seek or go in the caves and feel that scary feeling… we love them and my daughter LOVES THE BELLE.. I’m heartbroken
Exactly! People who say their children don't know who Tom Sawyer is are just making their kids sound ignorant. Walt Disney loved Mark Twain's stories, and he would be disappointed to know that people no longer know or care about them.
Water features are extremely important for aesthetics and human nature. Which is why beachfront property is so expensive. And why there's a massive central water/lake area in practically every them park ever built. You could argue Universal should fill in their lagoons at USF and IOA since it is a waste in the middle where something could go? (Even Epic Universe is being designed with a central water feature). Losing 20,0000 Leagues lagoon was part of what hurt New Fantasyland. We can just hope Villians Land or whatever else will have some water retained somewhere as a feature.
Sounds like someone’s gotten a little too comfortable back on the inside and doesn’t want to lose his newfound good standing with Disney media relations…because this decision is a huge stinker and an honest Tom would say so.
Honest Tom would share his opinion irregardless of weather people would agree with him or not you can’t praise him when he agrees with you and shame him when he disagrees with you that makes you look disingenuous
Tom, the very reason you love Disney Sea is the reason to preserve RoA. MK is a theme PARK. RoA provides a visual break and a thermal relief from the otherwise concrete expanse. Whether people went over to the island or not is not the point. It is there to offer what little beauty and peace there is at MK.
44 square miles of property and these idiots can't find another place to put cars????? The bastardization of Frontierland continues!!! We need Michael Eisner back!!!!!!!!
@@zarajenkins6948 because they are taking away things that made Disney different to a run of the mill themepark. The theming, original locations such as the waterfront and cinderellas castle, original ride concepts etc are what makes it Disneyland. Slowly those rides disappear for IP rides (cars ? come on now) and iconic areas like the river and the steamboat are destroyed in the process. The thing about Disneyland was that its beautiful, landscaped, there are areas to chill etc They should also have some respect for the original creator and keep its essence, look at the state of Epcot. They fucked it up
In the past Tom rants 40 minutes about plans of rethemeing country bears. After making peace with Disney he’s ok with them gutting a massive classic area for cars 😂 yeah sure. Well we know a few media parties and some freebies is all his integrity was worth. Welcome to the Disney shill club.
I know that the WDW parks isnt for the super fans but I feel like the Rivers of America is something that guests wont realize they needed until it's gone. It creates depth and kinetic energy, something that makes the park feel lived in. It's the part of the park that feels like a real place. I can understand shortening ROA or even just docking the riverboat in front of Tiana's so you can fill in the backside of the river to expand the island, but filling it all in is a HUGE mistake. Magic Kingdom already feels like a concrete jungle and this will be the cherry on top.
Horrbile decision. It’s part of the fabric of the park. Memories. You can expand build and upgrade but keep the original fabric and identity of the original park. It’s tradition. Not some BS theme ride like T2 or Jaws. This. Is. Magic. Kingdom.
Tom, with all due respect, I understand where you're coming from, but I genuinely feel like the Magic Kingdom is loosing what I would consider one of the most relaxing areas of the park. When I did the Disney College Program this past Spring, I grew a soft spot for the Liberty Belle, and tried to ride almost every time I was at Magic Kingdom as a guest. I'm a train guy first and foremost, but I developed a soft spot for the Liberty Belle, as it was nice to just take a ride out in the wilderness, and it was really fun to see the train and boat draw up side by side and exchange greetings. I'll agree that Walt Disney World's Rivers of America isn't as important as the Disneyland version, but it is still an important part of Walt's legacy. Plus, you need these higher capacity attractions with low wait times, as it helps during periods of big crowds.
"but it is still an important part of Walt's legacy." How.. in what context is it important? Other than it was something in disneyworld for a long time...." Plus, you need these higher capacity attractions with low wait times, as it helps during periods of big crowds." Thats literally the opposite of what you want, these have low wait times, means its not popular and not taking people away from other rides like big thunder, peter pan etc. If all you had in the park were absolute banger rides that everyone was willing to queue 3 hours for, then all the queues would be more balanced rather than some 10 minutes and some 120 minutes.
@@xrmike68 While this does relate more to the Disneyland version of the River, one of the reasons Walt bought the plot in Anaheim, because he wanted a riverboat, in conjunction with the railroad. While this obviously does not apply to the version at Magic Kingdom, it is still an important part of the Disney Park experience that Walt wanted. Beyond that, on busier days, where wait times are exorbitant for the most popular rides, having these less popular rides that can eat up a large amount of guests are important, as Disney can "encourage" guests to try the road less traveled by showing lower wait times.
@@xrmike68 Walt's own words from the Frontierland Dedication Plaque: It is here that we experience the story of our country's past -- the color, romance, and drama of frontier America as it developed from wilderness trails to roads, riverboats and civilization; a tribute to the faith, courage, and ingenuity of our hearty pioneers who blazed the trails and made this progress possible.
The Rivers of America is the essence of what Disney parks are about. It was built not to be "utilized" 100% but to immerse guests in a distant time and place and it did and does that spectacularly. I'm sure Central Park could be sliced and diced and built over as well for a much more efficient use of its land, but would NY be NY without its Central Park? That is what the Rivers of America is to the Magic Kingdom. I am appalled by executive, management and the imagineers for this scatter brained, ill conceived idea. And what about the remaining Frontierland buildings? How will they look facing snow capped mountains and 20th century vehicles zipping to and fro?
I see your point, but I’m sure the imagineers also realize this and will do their best to mitigate it. I have a feeling this will feel like the area around grizzly River run and that area is great. I’d also be with them retheming those buildings to just the west vs the old west.
Whilst my nostalgia part is sad about losing this part of the park (not TSI, it's a hot sweaty experience that we personally don't enjoy) There are never huge lines these attractions and they don't bring guests into the park like cars will. It is a massive footprint of land that can clearly be utilised for a lot more. Although I say all of this I'm not sure I fully get Disney's explanation of it going into Frontierland but it is what it is. One thing I do know though, this now gives bloggers weeks of content as they gush over how amazing the RoA and TSI are.
@phillyguy199 Aren't Tom Sawyer Island and Swiss Robinson TH the only WDW attractions dedicated to the live action movies and TV shows of the 60s to 80s.😪 was Herbie or Zirro ever considered for an attraction? Cars is now 18 years old. Its only legacy is from youngsters under ten. Where's a Mary Poppins attraction? MP is in its own class. A restaurant that the bill for four people can surpass some people's weekly take-home pay doesn't count.
I agree. I don’t think I will be watching this any more. It’s like he is their propaganda minister now…LOL! The Rivers of America is the most beautiful part of the park except for the castle. Being in line at the Haunted Mansion and seeing a bunch of cars???
I was working my way through a long comment regarding my thoughts and it finally hit me that it no longer matters. The place I've loved and have been passionate about since I was a kid in the 80s no longer exists. Disney World is now interchangeable with most other tourist destinations. It's no longer something special, different, and better than everywhere else. This has been building up for the past 5 or so years. Removing the Rivers of America (not Tom Sawyer Island) just put the final nail in the coffin. It's time to move on. Here's to hoping future leadership can appreciate how special the place once was and can reintroduce that magic to the world.
What a disappointing take from you. I’d happily trade country bears for rivers of America. It’s about the landscape and the overall theming. What they’ve proposed is trash.
No. Keep the bears, the rifle game, rivers of America and frontier land as it is. Expand with the unused land behind thunder and haunted mansion. Disneys woke fascination with erasing everything Walt/pre political correctness/ and now the American expansion adventure is pathetic and sickening.
Tom, the water/ river along with island was a godsend for families with special needs during a period where these kids could have their senses overwhelmed. You guys not understanding what that area did for families will never get it!! Cars zipping around in that area will be a drop off for families with autism, and other mental issues. Going there for an hour or so would be the recipe for children and a reset for rest of their magical day. The subtle wind among the trees and the sound of paddle wheels along the water would calm ours and other kids over on the island for same needs. Again, it was a special place for families. Unfortunately,your new access to parties and other things has taken away the tiger some families use to need in speaking up and supporting us.we looked at you as our champion… currently, you have become the Resort tv and Trackers… sadly!!
I gave up on Disney years ago. Still, it feels just as sad to stand by and watch some of my great childhood memories be systematically destroyed by a faceless, heartless corporation.
It may be taking up a large amount of land in the middle of the park, but Rivers of America brings a special charm and energy that is unique to Magic Kindom. Paving over the river will disrupt the vibe of the park. I think they should have just rethemed Tom Sawyers island to something else and left the river alone.
Amen to this, Tom Sawyer island and the fort have always been underutilized and out of place at a Disney park but the rivers themselves and the boat add incredible atmosphere to the park and that’s not something that can be replicated by any new land. Plus if they wanna add capacity removing an attraction (the liberty boat) directly contradicts that
Mark my words.. the deconstruction of Walt’s Frontierland (Splash, shooting arcade, Rivers of America and the original Country Bears) will go down in history as one of the WORST decisions the company has ever made. Disney’s anti-Americana movement is beyond bizarre and disturbing. They don’t care at all what the fan community wants, nor care for the roots or legacy the company was founded on.
Tom, you haven't been the same Tom since you got your Media access back. You are becoming a Disney schill more and more. Everyone can hear in your voice you struggling. You sold out.
What happened to the Tom that understood theming? World showcase lagoon in Epcot is underutilized…..why not pave that too? Tiki room, hall of presidents, carousel of progress and American adventure never fill up…..time to get rid of those too?
I struggle to think of a worse place to put a ride themed to anthropomorphic talking cars. This is catastrophically bad. Having that area back up onto the water is such an important part of Magic Kingdom's design and provides so, soooo much ambiance for that place. Filling it in for crap that has nothing to do with the old west when they have plenty of other space to expand into is one of the worst ideas Imagineering has ever had. This is taking a hatchet to the design of the park. The fact that this idea ever made it off the whiteboard and got a public announcement should be an embarrassment to the company. Please, let this not happen! Put Cars in the open space behind BTMR. Fill in the back end of the RoA if you have to. Whatever. But please, please do not get rid of the part of the RoA that abuts Frontierland and Liberty Square! It provides so much for the park and people won't realize how big of a loss this is until the work walls come up. Yap about capacity and Tom Sawyer Island not being popular all you want. I don't care. Atmosphere and soul is what sets Disney parks apart from the rest, and bulldozing places that provide that in the name of capacity is a great way to lose that.
You can’t think of a reason to keep the rivers of America? How about aesthetics. I mean… clearly based on your awful shirts you don’t understand aesthetics but many of us do. Visually this will be an eyesore and will ruin the atmosphere of the park. If we’re looking to just cram as many attraction as possible in, it might as well be six flags. Epic Universe is a huge upgrade in layout, theming and aesthetics for Universal. This and everything else Iger and crew have done lately are the opposite for Disney, a huge downgrade. They have 44 square miles at WDW. This did not need to happen. It’s not just sad, it’s gross and I’m shocked that you, Tom, of all people don’t get it.
I’m surprised in you Tom! It doesn’t even look like you believe how you’re justifying Rivers of America’s demolition. With the pace they add new lands, that beyond Thunder Mountain area is gonna sit for decades! All so they could fill in a little space that they claimed was unnecessary because they had so much of it in Florida!
I was referring to the land behind Thunder mountain, the area they originally proposed the addition! Obviously the Carsland ripping up Rivers of America will be remodeled in about five years. But Tom was boasting that the land BEHIND or BEYOND Thunder mountain should be saved for future expansion!
It's now getting to the stage where I have complete apathy regarding any new announcements from Disney. They are killing most people's enthusiasm with death by a thousand cuts.
Sorry Tom, but destroying the sightlines is nothing more then updating for the sheer sake of updating. What makes Disney unique is their theming, and this destroys theming. I am FINE with updating Tom Sawyer in some way, but this is NOT it. What they SHOULD do however is maybe shorten the rivers and redo the Tangled bathrooms to set up Villains land in that area where they want cars, using haunted mansion as the transition between colonial America and villains. Also one of the worst aspects of this announcement was how they waited to outright state this was their intent. They are cowards afraid to face the music. Well now they got to face the music of lowering stock and a potential return of Peltz if they let it drop any lower
Nah. This is a sightlines type of decision. Seeing Villian Land rock work and peaks from the Frontier Land boardwalk would have sent Disnuts into apopleptic meltdown. Cars Land will shield that from this entire half of the park. Smart thinking, right? ❤😂
@@shugotenchi and this is precisely why Disney is more focused on replacing attractions rather than expanding. They want a higher density of higher paying guests in the park constantly waiting for a ride so they are exploring stores most of the time. They don't want actual capacity that spreads out the crowds reducing the need to buy FastGenieExpressPassTriplePlus. And they NEED the new attractions to keep attracting guests to keep coming back to a never expanding park, so replacing it is. And they get a bonus effect from replacing something beloved, publicity.
Is this the same Tom that was ranting about the new cabins at Fort Wilderness. Wasn’t the rant about how it was changing the theme and ambience of the place?
That’s a hotel, you don’t need to cram 70,000 people in it. Also, they’re basically changing the theme of Frontierland top to bottom, which is the right thing to do after Tiana. The old west doesn’t resonate with people anymore.
@@WDWNT "The old west doesn’t resonate with people anymore." - Because people are increasingly ignorant. I don't think Disney should continue to dumb itself down, just because the public becomes less educated. Look at the disaster that "The Seas with Nemo and Friends" is. Try and learn something in there other than a plush clown fish is $55. and the inside decibel level is 345. Most people I talk to that were regular visitors of "The Living Seas" remember it as both fun and a place where they learned something. Walt wouldn't have agreed with "talking down" to anyone. - Frontierland Dedication Plaque: It is here that we experience the story of our country's past -- the color, romance, and drama of frontier America as it developed from wilderness trails to roads, riverboats and civilization; a tribute to the faith, courage, and ingenuity of our hearty pioneers who blazed the trails and made this progress possible.
If they want to pave over l Tom Sawyer's Island, I guess that wouldn't change much. But they should keep at least part of the River boundary (maybe even with walkways) to keep a sense of special separation as a water feature. It would be a cool way to transition to Villians Land, and keep the Hainted Mansion and Thunder Mountain sightings distinct.
@@WDWNT That's odd...they're making yet another Pixar movie based off of a franchise that stars a toy cowboy named Woody. Your take on Rivers of America is so hypocritical based on your long history of other criticisms.
I think I have a bigger problem that they are diluting Frontierland with non original IP, replacing opening day attractions, that yes, are based on the ones at Disneyland, but it just doesn't feel right. I could have lived with shrinking it like Disneyland did for Galaxy's Edge, but this still feels wrong no matter how you spin it.
Considering Disneyland is landlocked they barely have space for anything, however Florida on the other hand has all the land to build multiple resorts, huge park expansions and even new parks, and yet we get this wasting good experiences, and it doesn’t make any sense either with the fact that this isn’t in the desert like radiator springs, it’s a cold icy land that doesn’t blend with the deserted land of Frontierland or adventure land, sure bayou adventure didn’t blend that well but this is just an abomination of an excuse to have a Pixar ip in MK, it goes against everything Walt wanted Frontierland to be and another loss of an opening day attraction that many had very fond memories of
Unfortunately they don't seem to be able to keep up with what they already have so it's easier to just replace it with something new. 😓@@SlushysSecret
@@braddiehl37 I’m not sure how that’s reasonable explanation for the removal of a perfectly fine experience that hasn’t become outdated amongst guests visiting the park
What? Where’s the rant? What about theming? Frontierland, how does Cars fit into that? Frontierland should be called Stuffland. It’s the land where some stuff happens. Also, in a flyover, Walt Disney pointed to an existing island and said “there’s Tom Sawyer Island”. Magic Kingdom was built around Tom Sawyer Island. When I go by there, the river boat always has riders. There’s no huge line but it is definitely used.
@@alextirrellRI not everybody is interested! So, no! People even were waiting for cars in Disney World for years! So, think about the fans for cars and not you haters!
@@ChunkychunHealy I'm not a hater. I would have loved Cars to go behind Big Thunder as originally suggested. Or maybe if they'd just taken a chunk of the River like they did at Disneyland for Galaxy's Edge. It just seems wrong to not have the water on that side of the park, and Cars is very much a stretch for Frontierland proper.
Closing and filling in the Rivers of America at Magic Kingdom is just plain STUPID on Disney's part. Disney has plenty of land to build the carsland attraction somewhere else. The paddle boat and Tom Sawyers island are ALL part of Disney History. Bob Iger and Disney are going out of their way to MUCK UP Walt Disney's dream, legacy and Magic Kingdom, just like they did with Tiana's Bayou Adventure and their DVC Lounge where the shooting gallery use to be. . There is no reason for two different carsland attractions in separate areas at Magic Kingdom. Disney could have put both carslands at Hollywood Studios.
I believe Iger was CEO when Disney made the decision to shorten Disneyland's Rivers of America for a Star Wars-themed land that did not work out. I hope Disney is not repeating the same mistake in Florida.
@@mykelcohenI used to have that attitude, went to Disney 2 or 3 times a year and I live in Utah! 😂they could do no wrong! But since 2019 I just have not been impressed, so crowded and so expensive and no imagination. we go less and less now. 😢
Nah getting rid of rivers of America and Tom Sawyer island is a bad move. Ya they’re not the most capacity friendly areas of the park but thats what made them nice. A little escape from the crowds. And whenever I go I always see quite a few people enjoying the riverboat and the island. The whole reason Walt bought so much land in Florida is so there would be room for expansion, for both his city and the theme park. At Disney world there’s no need for closing rides to make room for other rides as often, just make the parks bigger.
I'm not against building "Frontier Cars". It looks like FUN....just don't destroy the Rivers of America or the Riverboat! Build the damn thing in an EMPTY portion of the park!! This destruction plan is a HORRIFIC idea.
As a big fan of cars in DCA I can see the potential but the way they pitched this makes it sound like we’re riding in a car commercial instead of exploring the American frontier.. also the irony of “listening to the fans” there’s a reason why they didn’t say where things were going at D23 and villains land is just a response to Dark universe 🙄😒 without Epic universe I doubt it would have ever been pitched
@@zarajenkins6948because Disney over promises and under delivers. While charging top dollar (and even those prices keep going up). An actual good question to ask would be: why do people act like a cult when it comes to Disney, like they just eat up whatever Disney craps out. And they scramble to defend everything Disney does. If people are allowed to praise Disney they should be allowed to criticize Disney. It’s not that difficult to comprehend. Is Disney paying you to shill for them?
I'm torn by the announcement of the closing of Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island. Especially Tom Sawyer Island. We live in a time where children are spend so much time on-line and don't have many outdoor experiences. Bringing my children to Tom Sawyer Island was a magical experience for them. Between exploring the 2 caverns, bouncing on the barrels and exploring the fort, they always loved going there. Even now that they are older (21 and 16), they still want to go the island whenever we visit. Instead of tearing this down, I wish they would just refresh it, and maybe make it easier to access. The boats are fun, but they are kind of a pain, and as a result a majority of guests never visit the island (which makes the island a nice place to visit when the park is crowded LOL). I am excited for the new lands, but I think there are ways to add these lands without removing the island.
When you destroy everything nostalgic , everything light, everything child-centered, everything Americana, then you destroy the golden goose that is the Magic Kingdom. You destroy the light, moving, nostalgic, unique energy of the river, the riverboat, Frontierland, Liberty Square- which appeals to all ages by the way- for what? Concrete? Darkness? Villains that terrify kids? Do these executives even HAVE young children? Do they even HAVE older relatives who want something they can enjoy in the parks too? Disney executives are idiots.
When I think about the mish-mash of 1770s colonial village, Old West town, southern bayou salt mine in the 1920s, desert, Hudson River Valley mansion (with no river)....all overlooking modern anthropomorphic cars racing around a natural wonderland (THAT doesn't seem very ecologically modern and sensitive BTW)...I just wonder if there's anyone left at Disney that knows anything about designing theme parks or did they all switch jobs with the people at Universal? I mean, literally, this slap-dash opportunistic chaos is what Universal did for decades and we criticized them smugly as Disney fans. Now the situation is entirely reversed.
@@DrStarlander i have said this a few times here before, Disney is following Universals playbook now instead of being the trendsetter. Not only is it now all about the IP specifically but also a STRONG focus on making entire areas focused around a single IP. Makes sense the disregard for sightlines and atmosphere cohesion were to also follow suit. I will say villains land and tropical Americas, as much as I dislike that one, are following the older approach of a broader themed area. Granted it looks like tropical Americas is going to be pretty much just encanto with indiana Jones ride tucked away out of sight in a corner, so maybe I gave it a lil too much credit there. Ironic how Disney is chasing Universal while Universal's Epic Universe is taking much more pages out of the old Disney playbook. Three of the five lands will not be tied to a hyper specific IP, one of which not tied to any lands but themed to a celestial concept, it's looking like sightlines will be strongly enforced, and the main central land portion is going to have a focus on beauty and natural aesthetics with plants and water features a plenty. Epic Universe really does feel like it's been imagineered, makes sense honestly
Exactly right. Disney used to be the leader. UNIVERSAL was just a big amusement park. They got smart with the Harry Potter World (copy Disney creativity) and Btw Disney could have had Harry Potter they messed that up. Now Disney is just becoming an amusement park. Just throw a bunch of roller coasters in, that will make lots of people happy. But that's not what made Disney World great
Evil cannot create, it can only corrupt what is good. So instead of expanding into the empty areas of the property they are replacing what is already there. They are doing exactly what I expect them to do. Say what you want about the "use" of Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island. It's is still very beautiful to look at and held the together all the lands that it touched.
Agree!! Universal always was just an amusement park which never had the magic of WDW and tried to follow the leader. Now WDW is trying to loose its MAGIC to follow the amusement park... Big mistake 😭
Headline should read “Tom agrees that we should pave paradise to put in a parking lot.” This is a completely disappointing viewpoint and I’d say you don’t speak for anyone at this point. No one really cares about loosing Tom Sawyer Island, but the water, the boat, the whistle and the connection it makes from one side to the other is a park connection through many senses. This viewpoint is the same as every developer, careless and money over quality all day long. There is so much room at WDW to do this cars thing somewhere else and enough room to place the new villains in the back and even giving up some of the river. Lack of room and the river taking up space for other attractions is a terribly weak argument. This should be fought!
Wow Tom! Just because it's not as important as country bears to you doesn't mean that it isn't as equally important to others. What was an open themed area that broke up the crowds and allowed you to see the sky will now become just like every other Disney Park, packed to the gills with people. Expect Magic Kingdom to become more hot and more crowded than ever, more akin to Hollywood Studios. Now instead of going into the area and being able to look across the water to a beautifully themed Big Thunder Mountain, you will walk and see a huge outdoor IP themed Test Track ride. Tom you sound like a fully integrated part of the Disney PR machine now. Why are they getting rid of this at a park where they have room to expand? I loved being on Tom Sawyer island as a kid and take my kids over there every visit. We explore the caves, go across barrel bridges, and use our imaginations. You know good ole fashioned fun. It is a wonderfully themed play area that they never talked about. Now with the new ride, you will be told exactly what you can and can't do and they will make stand in a line and make you pay with Lightning Lane if you really want to do it. While I know you won't miss it because you can go to Disneyland anytime you want to ride the Mark Twain, with a family of 6 I don't have that luxury. You're giving your opinion as someone who has visited other Disney parks. Most people will NEVER be able to do that and this will be the only version they would have had the chance to see. But now it will be gone in name of expansion. The real reason this is happening is because they don't make money on that ride. They need to have another E ticket ride to charge for Lightning Lane for.
NO NO NO NO. The Rivers of America was created by Walt Disney himself! Just like Main Street! He WANTED some Americana in his park! Put MK Cars Land somewhere else. SAVE THE RIVERS OF AMERICA!
@@farcus1730it really depends on how big villains land might end up being, there’s a chance it will take up the entire area originally intended for the beyond big thunder expansion
I'm happy for Muppet vision But at the same time I'll let down for me to see rivers of America and Tom Sawyer's Island gone forever to make way for something that doesn't make any sense to frontierland
@@facusmendoza1061 I’m betting that eventually this area won’t even be called Frontierland anymore, actually. It will have theming from various parts of America, (New England, New Orleans, Pacific NW)… they could rename it American Landscapes or something like that. (I’m no good at naming things lol)
Ever since WDWNT teamed back up with the actual company, they have yet to criticize anything the company has done. And this is a MASSIVE line Disney is crossing…going to unfollow since obviously unbiased reporting is not a thing at this channel anymore
They could have put something special on that island and built nicer boats (not a raft) to acess it. This is going to ruin the aesthetic of the park. Most high end theme parks offer a quiet and peaceful place to sit and escape the crowds.
Tom acting as an apologist for D'Amaro. “Country bears giving the Magic Kingdom its identity…” seriously? The area around the liberty bell with the rivers of America are what make the magic kingdom different to other parks. Plonking anthropomorphized talking cars and plastic snowy mountains in the middle of liberty square and Frontierland is thematically ridiculous.
From my first two visits to MK when I was a little kid (3 and 6 years old) in the 70’s, literally the only thing I can remember is how much I loved the Country Bears… oh, and I got ice cream lol. Of course my brother and I had some fun on TS Island when we were bigger kids through the 80’s, and the boat/water is pretty… but it really is a huge waste of space for the crowd that goes to that park. I’m glad they’re putting so many new attractions into their busiest park! And then the ROA / TS Island can be something that is very special to just the OG park, Disneyland.
It was hard to hear Tom talk like this. If it was something he was a fan of it would have been a different tone but I guess if it’s not for him he will shill for the heads of Disney. I wonder why 🤔
Walt loved history. The river and the riverboat saluted the pioneers who opened the West and who exemplified the can-do spirit of Americans. That spirit and its history need to be introduced to every new generation. And the Disney Co. is abandoning that mission in order to create another CARS ride? Yikes!
The biggest issue I have is the fact that they're advertising this as a Fronteirland "expansion" and that's what I expected. This is not an expansion. They're replacing half of Fronteirland and portions of Liberty Square. This is NOT what they promised is and there is no "expanding" happening. Honestly I can see how they can make this work. Still feels weird having cars -> bayou -> Big Thunder The biggest issue for me is the snowy portions. That really feels random in the middle of that area, I don't understand what the thought was with that...
I absolutely disagree. I cannot believe that you think paving over the river will not completely change the entire vibe and atmosphere of the park. It is essential. It is important. Disagree completely.
Just wait, they will be coming after Liberty Square next because God-forbid we have anything old, "out-dated", historical, educational, and beautiful. Hall of Presidents and the Liberty Tree probably are going to offend someone and they don't draw enough of a crowd. Then Tikki Room, Small World, and Carousel of Progress. And these new rides and shows are nothing innovative and creative like what they are doing in Japan. It's going to lose a lot of nostalgia and then it basically becomes Universal Studios Lite. Yes, it should change for the kids but the adults have the money and I believe a lot of what makes Disney successful is the nostalgia--parents want to share that with their kids. We've got a trip or two left but then we are basically done going there.
@@kimberlylebrun2934Since this is not IP and merch driven it does not offer the returns necessary for the square footage provided. In other words-they can squeeze more out of guests for this instead of that.
Sorry, not trying to accuse your reasoning of being ok to remove both attractions, but you are in the minority of this argument. The biggest issue to me & the vast majority isn’t the removal of ROA & TS. It’s more of what it’s being replaced by. No one asked for a kiddy boom boom Cars land. it’s basically a reimagined 2.0 radiator spring, no matter how you put it or what they say… “saying it’s not radiator Spring”. 1000% it doesn’t fit where its being replaced. The aesthetic of it looks so cartoony and again… No one cares or how irrelevant Cars IP is nowadays. Why do we need another mountain but with Alpine Norway look-alike waterfall mountain area near Frontierland sidewalk. Do we need to hear Ka-chow Ka-chow or engine being revved so loudly while trying to exp the ambience and eerie noise at Haunted mansion. The immersion is now completely and ridiculous GONE. This was not Walt’s vision. This is some sorry ass excuse bc the Igor crew see both RoA & TS as Problematic for no reason but just for the reason to get rid of it so he can finally stake & claim his aurora when he finally retire as CEO for Disney. It’s all becoming the Igor Kingdom.. Not MAGIC.
Why not?! I can't wait for more Cars in Main Street! Why not replace the train with Cars! I mean, obviously, the parks aren't for Disney fans, they're for families! Just add googily eyes to the train and say it's a train found in the Cars Universe!
Frontierland and liberty square are quite literally built around the river. Without the river they are nothing. Nothing. It brings needed, passive elegance of tranquility to the area. The views, the sounds, and the smells will all be replaced by the all-familiar sound of test track racing by. It’s utterly ridiculous and sad. Disney imagineering has simply lost their touch. If they think ripping out an original, massive, central part of Magic Kingdom can be taken lightly, they are wrong. With enough pushback, we can stop it.
“Here in Florida, we have something special we never enjoyed at Disneyland: the blessing of size. There's enough land here to hold all of the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine” Oops except not enough land for cars land. I wouldn’t mind if Tom Sawyer’s island closed / was replaced. Losing the river / river boat is sad. It’s meant to be a wide open area with some kinetic elements like the riverboat and rafts.
The thing that has always separated Disney parks, specifically the Magic kingdom is that it’s a pretty park. How can you defend looking out from haunted mansion and seeing a bunch of cars tooling around. It doesn’t fit there. Disney just seems so reactionary to everything Universal is building whereas they used to be at the forefront. I am surprised at Tom, there is a lot wrong with this plan.
how much did they pay you to say filling in the river for cartoon cars driving around is valid. jeez. This is the worst decision since retheme of Tower of Terror.
Like I get it. Tom really wants to be positive again and he just got his press privileges back. The timing of this terrible decision is bad for him and clouding his judgement imo. He'll realize the disaster this is in time...
It’s understandable but it’s sad. Like I lost faith when there was little to no coverage on the das changes. Eric did a short rant but it felt hollow cause I remember a year ago when the cast members were on strike Tom made a huge deal about it and urged people to support and cover the cast members even if it got them removed from the media list. Yet after wdwn got back on to the list they spoke about the das changes with very little protest and don’t even mention it anymore cause it’s not that big a deal to them. To be clear I don’t think Tom and wdwn are bad people, they’re a company that’s doing their best to support themselves. I have more faith in them turning around back to how they used to be than Disney at this point. Which is why I’m still watching that and I do care about them.
Had anyone here actually stood up to Disney instead of shilling on all the b.s. they've been doing lately, then maybe this wouldn't be happening. Boycott Disney!! 🚿 🚿 Bob 🌬
The General Public doesn’t care about “Cars”. The Riverboat is kinetic energy, it’s relaxing to go on. The Theming makes no sense with its removal. I give up with this company. Iger sucks, doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s been behind all of the negative changes and Chapek got the brunt of it yet it was stuff laid in motion by Iger. I’m done with Disney, they killed Epcot, and now they’re nuking Disneyworld. Forget it, I’ll be spending my money elsewhere from now on.
Walt didn’t want his parks saturated by IP. Card was okay, making a land based on IP is completely stupid. I’m done with the parks. Disney doesn’t want $10k from me every year anymore, and I’ll gladly keep it and use it elsewhere.
Tom you do make a great point over losing Tom Sawyer Island and rivers of America at WDW at least they aren’t removing Walt’s original Disneyland version, but I feel holding off till after D23 to say they are going to remove it was a bit sneaky and it’s things like that where Disneys board doesn’t think and it’s time for them to be replaced.
Man this channel is way up Disneys behind! Anytime someone says “Right” when trying to convince someone they know they are wrong and have a terrible argument. He says it ton “right”😊
This is beyond idiotic! Now it's clear into the sacrilege of trashing Walt Disney's dream. The American frontier spirit was so much a part of Mr. Disney. What does Cars have to do with the old west??? A movement needs to be started to save this iconic part of Disney before it's destroyed! Where can we voice our opinion to WDW?
They need something that’ll draw the crowds in. Only thing that might is a really well done original concept on par with Pirates and Haunted Mansion or a thrill ride.
@@FunAtDisneyevery single castle park across the globe has some sort of body of water used for an attraction of some kind. It’s the tradition of the castle parks. Now they’re destroying that tradition
@@BunnyandMoon why do they need anything more to simply “draw the crowds in”? The parks are overcrowded as it is. I agree, though, this project should be constructed behind Big Thunder and Frontierland.
Goodbye Frontierland! Sad to see as a lifelong Disney fan. I have been going my entire life and this is the nail in the coffin for Frontierland. With all the land at WDW, they can’t find another place to put this and keep the immersive theming with Frontierland?
Disappointing to see that youve taken this position Tom. Your outfit is one of the few organizations that has the power to potentially save the riverboat. You need to realize that the river and the kinetic energy of the Libert Belle are essential to the feel of frontierland. We're losing something that can't be quantified in a spreadsheet. And yeah, there's still the original at Disneyland, but that's not a good reason to destroy a beautiful landscape and 50 years of history. Please reconsider.
Wow Tom you have really lost your edge. Ok let's forget about the sentimental reasons and the fact that Frontier Land will not exist anymore. What you will really be loosing is the beautiful scenery that makes Magic Kingdom special. Tomorrowland is my least favorite area because it is concrete and ugly buildings compared with the rest of the park. But even forgetting that... A more practical reason not to destroy it is because they are jamming more attractions into a small space. This is the problem with Hollywood Studios right now. There are too attractions vs. open space. Look at Toy story land it's hard to walk around. Yes the island is under used and they could put an attraction on there. If the only thing they are worried about is money than don't even bother with a theme. Slap in a bunch of roller coasters and you will make a bunch of people happy. It's turning into an amusement park instead of a theme park. And that's not what made Disney World great.
Why couldn't they just Cars Theme out the Speedway??? It makes more sense having it over near other Pixar attractions. Tom Sawyer Island should have been where a Tiana's sit-down restaurant should have gone... keeping the riverboat and Splash Mountain unchanged. It seems like in Disney's rush to destroy Splash Mountain, they just keep making mistake after mistake trying to make sense of it all. It's become a disorganized mess.
I totally agree. Tomorrowland Speedway is also a large a piece of underutilized real estate. The current vehicles are noisy, smelly and hard to steer. Converting that to a Cars attraction with better technology makes far more sense and it can only improve the area.
Reminder they have a huge expansion plot right behind big Thunder that was set aside for a massive Frontierland (or new section thanks to its placement) expansion that’s going completely unused. But nah, let’s ruin the ambience of Tiana, Haunted Mansion, Frontierland, Liberty Square, etc. by having cartoon cars driving around them
It surprises me that those who want this change to pure cement call us "haters" those of us who really love Magic Kingdom the way it has always been and want to defend it. We are not haters, we are the true Disney World lovers and with this announcement we are heartbroken 💔 I just pray that this change lasts over time and NEVER happens, like many other company announcements that NEVER happened... 🙏🏼
This is a travesty. It makes no sense. Frontierland is one of the most magical areas of the park. Not every piece of real estate has to be filled with a commercial thrill ride. Walt Disney understood this... that is why he built Disneyland in the first place. Get a clue Bob Iger and reverse this bad decision. Put the Cars attraction on the other side of the railroad tracks or in Hollywood Studios. Simple solution.
