It is the cost. Golf is expensive. It is the same reason why you see less baseball players. The cost of travel ball and the cost of equipmenet is probably $7500 per year.
what he identifies has nothing to do with how impactful he is to black people. if his game impacts a generation it impacts a generation. there are lots of black people who play golf who never even saw that interview when he said what he identifies as. there is no correlation there.
It is the cost. Golf is expensive. It is the same reason why you see less baseball players. The cost of travel ball and the cost of equipmenet is probably $7500 per year.
@@TorSavvy youre implying that the only reason they can possibly be asking that question is because tiger says he doesnt identify as black. And that is silly. So youre saying most black ppl said screw golf tiger says he isnt black. That makes sense to you? Lolthat doesnt make any sense.
@@dominicharris5489 Are you “black”? If you were, then you would know that’s exactly what happened. Even Rob said it. Furthermore, so many black athletes have camps and other programs that ingratiate them with kids from all backgrounds. Where is the Tiger Woods golf camp? THAT is what I’m saying, not implying.
Speaking as a black golfer myself, it is EXTREMELY difficult to become great at golf, let alone make it to the PGA level. Most pros starting playing from when they were kids, received lessons and made it their life long goal to make it to the PGA. I believe Tiger did inspire several black golfers, including myself. Many are just unable to make it to the PGA, regardless of race.
You’re dead on. Hear any tour player talk about their development it’s either they started playing at 3-6 years old or their dad was a good player and taught them the game. 24/7 coaching. Also it literally costs to go work on your game. 90% ranges aren’t free, you gotta pay for balls. And if you’re not good yet, you’re not that good yet to get the least amount of balls and still get good work. You need to hit 100+ balls almost every day (ideally every day) to get the hang of it. We just don’t have that access. I love golf but I won’t tell a kid to play golf especially if they financially do it
@@tiptoptootsiepopThe discussion is about pros though. Plenty of black people and other minorities started playing recreationally. If you are trying to make it to the pro level $10 garage sale equipment is not going to cut it.
So is AAU basketball ($500 - $2,000 depending on the state), but we see plenty of black folks there. Why aren't the 12% of black households who are upper class not deep in golf? Why aren't many of the 47% of black households who are middle-class (according to the Pew Research Center) not playing golf? Cost is NOT the primary factor, but rather lack of interest.
Rob answered his own question when he said 'i don't follow golf like that'. That's just it. I'm a 54 year old black man from the UK and i just 'don't follow golf like that'. I enjoyed watching Tiger more than i enjoyed watching golf.
Amongst the youth, golf is viewed as the “old man sport” . It is one of the few sports the most successful businessmen in the world engage in , but it’s not easily accessible to poorer areas and even if so, where are you gonna practice to even get good at it? On the other hand you buy a basketball hoop and a ball one time and that’s it 🤷♂️
According to the Pew Research Center, about 12% of black American households are upper-class; 47% are middle-class. Separate stat, but 54% of all black folks now live in suburbs. Even accounting for the fact that a disproportionate percentage (22%) of all black children live in poverty, income is NOT a sufficient explanation for why Tiger Woods hasn't generated increased black participation in golf among the ~60% of black households who theoretically CAN afford to play golf. After all, we see black families dropping $500-$2,000 for their kid to play in AAU basketball tournaments (depending on the state). Especially when we HAVE seen increased black numbers in tennis. Access to a golf course could play a role, but even with that hurdle we should still be seeing more black folks in professional golf. I would argue that it is primarily because (for whatever reasons) black folks are generally not interested in golf.....and that is OK. We don't need to be involved in every sport.
Tiger never self identified as Black . Which is his prerogative but I never viewed him as a Black American Nike just new that Caublasian mess was not marketable.
@@ZoraDelaney Exactly. My middle class parents paid ~$90/hour tuition for me to train in club gymnastics. I advanced to the competitive team at age 4 and competed in 2 states as the only Black girl until I was 15. This was back in the 1990s, so it's far more expensive now. But, since Gabby Douglas won gold in the 2012 olympics at least 2 Black girls have been on every olympic team and 2024 could reasonably field an entire Black US Olympic team if they pick the top scores. Black parents are definitely willing to pay for their kids to excel in any sport.
Serena and Venus has more impact in their sport because they never denied their heritage, made constant efforts to go into under served communities, gave back to those communities and provided a space to talk about race in their sport. Tennis has Naomi, coco, Sloan, Alexandra, Ben Shelton, Francis, eubanks and a ton of others. Tiger didnt do anything except win and his inspiration was to older people. No teen was looking at golf
Right! He didn't have an impact on the Blk Youth because he Never Cared about impacting the Blk Youth & drawing them into the game of golf. He cared about Winning & Porn👩🏼Stars 🤷🏾♂️ that's about it 😄.
You guys should be more aware. It’s access, interest, and resources. Tiger’s father loved golf, was retired vet, could access public/base courses virtually for free. His father was on his second family when he retired and taught Tiger…he was not as available for his first set of kids. Tiger’s route is an anomaly compared to his counterparts. Young black kids will not naturally gravitate to golf unless they live on or near a course. My son plays golf, and was really good as a kid but once he got to high school, the pull of football was too socially strong. In general regardless of race, the primary group of young people who play golf regularly are pros compared to the general population of young people.
Same with my brother. My dad had him playing golf since he was 2 years old and he was very good. We live in the suburbs and could walk to our golf course, so my brother even worked there in middle and high school. But, he lost interest in high school and chose football and wrestling because that's what all his friends were doing. We were 1 of few Black families in a mostly White community but none of his friends were playing golf. I trained and competed as a gymnast, which is way more expensive than golf. Gymnastics is fast becoming a mixed sport.
It’s the lack of golf courses in black areas. My grandpa spoiled me, a $1k club set wasn’t out of the question. He WANTED to buy me a set. There’s just no where to play. Same with motocross. In my hood 5 or 6 kids had dirt bikes, could do all types of x games ground tricks but the closest place to actually ride was in Pennsylvania and were in Newark nj
Tiger did nothing for me as a kid nobody in the hood was watching golf plus he himself said he doesn’t identify as black so we never cared about dude anyway
Blacks were obsessed with tiger who is a mutt btw he's half Asian and half African American. But you guys already admitted you didn't care you just want to see someone dark skinned play it which is a self own. Total humiliation
So true. Look at the Williams sisters impact on Tennis. There's multiple top ranked black woman playing the sport thanks to them. Golf is such a deliberate sport where you have to go to the golf course. Tennis, basketball, football, even baseball, all you need is a court or a field, a ball, and in baseball and tennis, some equipment that you can get pretty cheaply used. You really have to want to do it.
I mean here's the thing we put this on Tiger to resurrect black athletes in Golf. Key word resurrect black people were deep into golf so much so all of the caddies used to be black until they legislated them out of the game. The did the same thing to black Jockeys they made both white men's sports and had to through racist legislation eliminate black people from the sport. So I don't put it on Tiger I point the finger on the source.
For starters Golf isn’t cheap, and there’s still some Country Clubs that’s still reluctant to accept black golfers so that’s another obstacle. And if Tiger ACTUALLY embraced his African heritage, there would be more black kids wanting to grow up to be him.
Isn’t it amazing how the conversation always goes to skin color? Funny how no one is asking why Tiger hasn’t influenced more Thai golfers… It’s almost as if sports media/“certain groups” don’t care what HALF his genetic makeup is… Wonder why. 🤔
I don't get why these guys want Tiger to just deny half (or more) of who he is and act like it doesnt matter. Tigers Father was mixed and half black or something, his mother was mixed and asian and indian I think - why should he just describe himself as only black and brush away the rest? Tiger is black or part black - he's also many other things none of them of less worth to be ignored.
Several reasons: 1. Average young black person doesn't relate to Tiger Woods. 2. There's no clear (and relatively cheap) path to play professional golf. 3. There's no equivalent in golf to a pick-up game of basketball. You need clubs, a course, time, and money. With basketball, all you need is a ball and a hoop. 4. This will sound silly, but there's nothing that equates to a dunk, crossover, etc in golf. I.E. something that makes your male peers envious or left in awe and the women are swooning. Image is so important to the youth and these (admittedly silly) things matter.
I agree. In my opinion it’s more so number 4. the game is just not that interesting and to be honest kind of boring and that leaves younger audience who has a lower intention span looking for something else to be a part of.
I am not sure how it works in the U.S but in England we sit a PGA exam and degree programme to enter pro competitions. Golf club membership and events are expensive, especially if you aren't yet eligible to get paid enough to even cover expenses. Golf is an elite sport and is more accessible if you have economic means.
There was a short black renaissance when Tiger hit the scene. I been golfing as a little kid before Tiger. But golf cost a lot of personal finances. Same as tennis and racing. Football, baseball, basketball don't.
Many black people viewed Tiger as a influencer. Unfortunately for them Tiger had no interest or care in connecting to them. Tiger's demeanour also didn't connect to the average black person. Tiger never involved himself in what many call black culture. If anything he rejected the label of being called Black.
Golf is like exclusive for the upper class. If you're living within a simple community, where would you practice and play golf? We dont have golf courses in our parks and campuses. Golf membership is expensive as well.
It requires actually having to work a golf course to have a good realization. So much time in a pretty day. 18 holes. Groups of 4. Basically launching 15 minutes apart.
You can only pump so many people through. And some people are golf fanatics. Therefore. The economics kick in hard in golf. You want to play. Show me the money.
Will you guys please stop saying Tiger denied he was black. He's just as Thai as he is black. It's ignorant to think he's going to deny or ignore his mothers heritage.
Tiger inspired more people to WATCH golf. It's up to parents to inspire kids to play golf. Tiger became great because his father made him practice when he didn't want to. Most kids are not challenged to stick to things and improve. Tiger probably got a lot of people to try golf once or twice, but an Earl Woods didn't come with their junior irons sets.
Also. And i know this sounds bad. But generally. A good rule of thumb. The less rabble thats on the course. The nicer shape its kept by the golf heads.
I don’t understand why it always has to be about that. He’s part Asian why aren’t there a bunch of Asian golfers now? It’s so weird that if a single sport isn’t booming with a specific minority then there must be a problem. How come after yao Ming there was no influx of Chinese stars ? Makes no sense
I think everyone already nailed it. But I agree..Golf is very expensive to play.. but i dont think its just a money issue..kids spend 1000 on jordans every month..i think its just not as fun to play, and unlike basketball and football it doesnt have the same access and appeal...as a hooper..theres nothing like going to the gym st 2am and playing..going to.parks..its super competitive but also keeps you in shape and just fun..you dont really.get that adrenaline playing golf and you just cant go anytime, anywhere and just play
I started playing gold in late 20s when my friends starting inviting me. It’s popular for the older folk because it’s less taxing on your body and slow pace. Some reasons for it not being as popular in black community that come to mind. - relatively expensive. Yeah you can be thrifty but it’s still an expensive sport to play. Anyone saying otherwise is being disingenuous. - Takes awhile to get good. It’s not like basketball we’re a athletic phenom can start playing and look good within a few weeks or months. - It’s boring to watch. It’s slow, no exciting athleticism is really being displayed, it’s quiet, everyone takes turns, everyone wearing slacks and polos, etc. - it’s not a “cool” sport. Tiger woods wasn’t viewed as cool. For youth saying you play golf isn’t viewed as impressive as basketball, football, baseball, boxing, list goes on.
I mean, its like in the case of football/soccer, its does have a mainstream following in the US so not many people are aspiring to be golfers not only African Americans but Americans in general. And, probably because PGA/golf is not for everyone in the first place, Michael Jordan has been playing golf for years and he did not figure in PGA at all.
@@BLKnivesMTTR Why would you need to join a club that's " decent" ? There are municipal courses that anyone can play on. A full time job is 8 hours a day five days a week so you have 112 hours per week to play .
Tiger woods is simply the kid of a very pioneering black wealthy golf head. But being that kid. Got access to what he needed. You cant make an inner city childs father well off. So.
lol Tiger has def influenced more blacks to play than ever before, idk if people expected him to influence MORE black golfers to the point that a much larger percentage of pga tour players are black people. it is weird that there are not more african american golfers on tour though but regardless he has impacted golfers around the World of all races
1: Golf is expensive 2: Tiger doesn't influence as a race, but as a human being 3: Personally, growing up in a white household as a mixed kid, it was awesome seeing some guy with similar skin color, and not just because he was different, because he was DIFFERENT. I love golf and always have and he was, like many others, my inspiration to start playing
Golf is still an expensive and somewhat exclusive hobby. For the largest portions of the black community you have to go a bit out of your way to play and for it to be something that you take up as a sport you have to be willing to do so regularly. Actually, you really need to have your parents willing to do so regularly unless you're starting as an adult. It's simply as accessible. That's not to say blacks don't play but I think for it to be a sport you go pro at, you start young, and it's not that easy to do for large portions of the community and maybe that smaller portion that can just don't take to it.
1. Access is still an issue. That's for everyone as well, not just African Americans. Fewer young people are playing golf unfortunately. But one thing that has been bad is the shrinking number of public golf course and even driving ranges. Many municipalities in my area have abandoned their golf courses in favor of building more warehouses and nature trails. The buildings bring in more tax money and require little maintenance. Developers are also behind this as well. They get government grants for putting up townhomes and subdivisions. 2. A prominent black female journalist (can't remember her name) stated that Tiger's impact would be muted because he married Elin. That was years ago. I think that might be part of it.
Whoever is saying it’s “expensive” is so full of s&@t. If we were to come together and be honest with each other the truth is they see it as a white sport and they idolize rappers and athletes that play hoops or football. Those blinged out chains cost more than golf clubs so cut it with that excuse. Nobody speaks the truth.
Being a golf player isn't gonna get you any black girls or make you popular . A black guy would have to be very separate from the black race to become a good pro golfer.
Golf is hard , tiger has a god given ability , and be paired it with elite work ethic , literally a prodigy since. Child. Can’t teach that, you can get good with practice but some you can’t teach
Rich people will happily devote large amounts of their disposable income to these resource monsters. But only if you have an open tee when they come sunday am. Hence the golf club.
Blacks never identified with Tiger, he never identified as Black either. I think his impact was larger on the Asian community, especially with female golfers. Unlike Serena and Venus who grew up in Compton, were undeniably Black, the braids, the beads, were Hip-Hop, and of course they had Mr. Williams. Black people identified with them. Golf is expensive but the real reason Tiger didn't lead to droves of Black's flocking to Golf Courses is because of the Identity thing first and foremost, plenty of Blacks have money. And because he doesn't Identity with Blacks, he didn't reach out to ensure other Black's came in behind him, which is the major reason he was safe enough for Whites to invest so much money in to. They knew he wasn't bringing anyone with him, they knew could market him to other Whites exclusively, he was never going to speak about anything socially affecting Black's or Asians for what its worth. .
For this type of argument you need hard data not an opinion based on what you ‘think’ you see. The fact is that Tiger influenced people of all races and creeds to take up golf and since he’s still playing, albeit on the tail end of his career, you need to look at data regarding general course participation demographics, high school and college participation, etc. Like Hockey, Baseball and others sports that were exclusionary the impact will be seen in another generation or two but it will be as exceptional as basketball and football. Here the access is still much more straight forward and more of a natural fit as they are school funded and relatively cheap compared to golf. Interesting thoughts, fun discussion but I’m not surprised….’yet’. Let’s see what happens in a generation or two.
Most Whites who play don't belong to country clubs. Most have fathers who golf or relatives or friends. Once again no black fathers in their lives. Tiger Woods started playing because his father was an avid golfer. And golf is extremely hard to play well. I became close to scratch even tho I started late in life.
Rob and Chris clearly aren’t living in reality here. Do they not realize how expensive it is for someone to get that good?? I’m sure Tiger has inspired more black people to play golf, but expecting some to become a star golfer is crazy.
Golf and hockey are the most expensive sports to play Im white and I wouldn’t pay 50 bucks to play a so-so golf course and hockey wasn’t readily accessible when I was a kid and it was expensive to play and the equipment is outrageous
It’s not about Tiger embracing his blackness….our people simply DON’T PLAY THE GAME unless we have money, suddenly famous or pressed into playing the game for peer pressure “You’re going!! Wealthy people play golf get over it and used to it!!”
Well first Golf is an expensive sport to play. Paying for lessons and equipment is a nice bill. Another thing is when he denounced being black that took a hit with the blk community like Rob mentioned. Third most high schools don’t have a golf team, you’ll see more lacrosse, volleyball and swim teams than a golf team.
Tiger in his prime made it known that he was not representing black people. He was and is a mixed kid which is totally fine. So probably a lot of black kids didn’t look at him and necessarily say that’s who I can be. It’s sort of like the Rock. He has never denied that he has a black parent- his dad- but he has never specifically rep’ped black people. That’s just the truth. Black people wanted Tiger more than he wanted them and after awhile driving that one way street gets old.
His real impact is that he made golf cool and inspired more athletes to play. I do think MORE African Americans are golfing -- though it's still an middle & upper middle class sport. I have a friend who is from India who LOVES Tiger and is a golfer. I think he did something for the game globally for PoC.
Golf is expensive. But Tiger never embraced being culturally Black. So there wasn't any energy behind getting motivated to make the investments necessary to encourage, inspire, and support younger Black people.
Exactly. At least with tennis, Venus and Serena (mostly) identified with us. There have been quite a few black tennis players competing in majors over the last 30 years as a result.
What's always interesting to see is how myopic American sports journalists are when t comes to representation; whether it's simultaneously lamenting the decline of American dominance in the NBA (and not praising the rise in foreign-born players) while at the same time lamenting lack of African-Americans in sports like golf and baseball wthout talking about the lack of representation of Asian and Latino Americans across ALL sports not just ones where access and money are a factor lol Like Tiger also had Asian heritage and being visibly a person of colour (even if he weren't Asian) def provided someone to relate to for the multiple Asian kids coming up on the tour now (because the fewer minorities of any type; gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity, class, religion there are in a certain field broadens the relatibility of that person; e.g. Rishi Sunak, Wab Kinew, Jagmeet Singh Vivek Ramaswamy, Marco Rubio, and Nikki Hayley all look/ed up to Barack Obama). It only gets more specific once there are more (so for instance, regardless of your racial background, in Canada, you looked up to Steve Nash, a white dude from British Columbia, because he was a Canadian who was a star player. But as more Canadians entered the league, you could be from Montreal and look at a Chris Boucher or be from Toronto and look at a Cory Joseph, or a Hamilton and SGA or a Kamloops and Kelly Olynyk). So Tiger Woods not publicly identifying as black wouldn't mean much because a lot of black kids looked up to dudes like Jerome Iginla, who was bi-racial, like a PK Subban, and then South Asian kids like Jujhar Kharia who undoubtedly looked up to PK and now Arshdeep Bains a South Asian dude who looked up to JJ; hell I had friends growing up who were South Asian who loved Sammy Sosa and Peyton Siva because they "looked brown" lol). Wish, just for once, guys like these would expand their vision to consider the experiences of others (and they act perplexed when others don't do it for them lol).
A lot easier to find a basketball court or an empty dirt field to play football or soccer than anything resembling a golf course for inner city youths.
While the money and accessibility to learning and playing the sport is obvious, there's also a part of hip-hop/black culture not being influenced on golf like American football, basketball, or baseball. As of now, the sport requires one to be snappy in attire and embrace it. Being like Happy Gilmore by wearing hockey jersey or anything baggy, or being a colorful player is not the way of a professional golfer currently, nor do I see it happening. I follow a good amount of professional golfers and young golfers on instagram, and all but one are not a black-American: Camden Guyton - a grade school black golfer, who is likely on the path to becoming the pro. And might I add, this is not a race issue, but more of age issue: discipline, self-training, sacrificing some social interactions just to perfect the game. I don’t know how race could be argued with this, but most likely the teaching by the parents.
Tiger woods is not only black, but multiracial person and his impact is on the game where most of the players are in top fit shape and the game quality is very high
Tiger said in an interview when he was in his teenage years before the fame and fortune that he was black, not multiracial or the term he came up with.
