@@stoicHolcan you have to be right on that, there's NO WAY that if Chris meant it that way that he'd spend the whole song addressing corporate boot-licking and not even bring up all of THAT 🤣
The newer stuff is great. I love the older stuff too, takes me back. The sound has evolved with the newer stuff to a higher level though, (TK helped with that) and the integrity and thoughtfulness of the lyrics has only increased with each album. If you don't like the newer stuff at first listen, read the lyrics and then try again.
@@hankgege2199 Supporting Caste was the best album in my humble opinion, but victory lap wasnt that bad. and look here son.....uncle freedumb was wrong. ( sort of ) He was not speaking of fat records, rather, he was speaking of major labels in general. He was however directly addressing Fat Mike hanging with the democratic party and being photographed shaking John Kerrys hand.....you know, the guy who tased and audience member for asking about skull and bones and bohemian grove.( He went on to do alot worse than that)DONT TASE ME BRO......anyway.....sorry to be misleading, or partially incorrect.
I'm not crazy about the 2000's Propagandhi sound compared to their first two albums, but this is one of the better criticisms of Warped. NoFX and Circle Jerks can diss Warped Tour all they want but they've all been on it 10 times. People who haven't been on it like Propagandhi and The Queers hold more weight when they criticize it.
I mean depends on where they're coming from. People's opinions can change over time. And I'm willing to bet Warped tour has been different from the start to it's end. Hey if it wasn't for warped tour I wouldn't have seen TSOL or Adolescents before their bassist died. So it's whatever. Getting the message out is important too.
At the start of the song he is talking about Lars Frederiksen not fat mike and the video was "to have and to have not". He does reference nofx though by saying "when did punk rock become so safe" but it wasn't bashing him. Nofx is the reason propaghandi even became known.
Yea, they were definitely referencing Nofx after he referenced Lars. Propaghandi was on Fat Wreck Chords and then got dropped. The only reason they even became known was because of Nofx, and Warped tour. Though it doesn't change the fact that the person they are talking about in the first verse is Lars from Lars Frederiksen and the Bastards(and also Rancid) in "To have and to have not", as the song bashes communism, and he is going around shaking hands with the east coast hardcore skinheads, and this song bashed capitalism. Lars is against Marxist doctrine. While Propagandhi has become the poster boys of anti-american, anti-hardcore, pro-communist, pro-socialist punk rock.
joezo Not to put too fine a point about it, but AFAIK Propagandhi are anarchists, not Marxist as in Communist Party marxists, though anarchists can use marxist economic analysis. For the relations, might be time to read up on the Spanish Civil War.
I don't understand Propagandhi. So according to the comments this song is against punk bands selling out, Fat Mike and Lars Fredericson. But now they're on the biggest capitalist punk sellout label Epitaph.
Weren't you just asking me about "Gamble", the live version? It's on "Where Quantity Is Job #1" released on their very own G7..How do you not know this record, it's fucking great.
The criticism is because they're "patriotic" skins, not just because they're skins. Sure they could be SHARPs, but that doesn't give an excuse for patriotism.
Because god forbid someone takes pride in their country. Fucking hell. All chris did was imply with no actual evidence when he says "i like the message it sends". Basing everything off his feelings with no actual empirical evidence.
@@jamesoconnor1368 As everyone knows, music is about all about numbers and facts not feelings and emotions. lol JK Seriously, though, what cold hard facts were you expecting in this song? He was writing a song about how he felt about something... And that tends to be what song-writers do. They write about their feelings and it doesn't need to be "backed up" or even make sense to every listener. If you want someone to lay out of all the facts of the matter, read a good essay or article.
@@jamesoconnor1368 Oh, and here's some punk rock lyrics for ya: "Nationalism is a fucking lie" -Total Chaos "I pledge my defiance to your flag, I pledge my defiance to your useless rag" -Total Chaos
Timothy Rankin as far as song structure and subject matter NOFX has absolutely stagnated compared to Prop's progressive music. Prop branched out musically while NOFX has pretty much stuck to the same nihilistic subject matter and dick and fart jokes.
Damn! Torn right now, Fat records introduced me to this band but now I believe this band is telling the truth. Fat Wreck sucks with these new bands now,
+Tyler Durden old propagandhi is boring,it was a regular punk rock band,from "tomorrow´s ashes.." to now,this band grew up a lot and they expand themselves in music and lyrics
Dirtroad Games hit the nail on the head. Propagandhi had some bangers in the 90s, but I was in my early teens when Today's Empires.... came out, it changed everything for me, as far as music goes. I also really love the first two lagwagon records. Punk with metal sensibilities just seems so right.
Just to add to the discussion somewhere down below on CH and guys are rather sympathic ones or not - I just fucking hate them sometimes, they piss me off so badly that, pride swallowed, and 41 years old now, I realize that this is the really value of them to the world and me in particular. Because realizing they piss me off just means A) I can follow their argumentation logically B) I share it but am not applying it so C) it pisses me off, because it puts a finger in a wound of my obvious fake moralism and real imperfection which leads to - a late hooray for me, that - D) I got addicted to them in terms of auto-criticizing and self-optimization I guess, which, besides of my psychologist, has become the most valuable source of auto-improvement in a way. If they wouldn't piss me off soooooo badly, I think I wouldn't listen to them anymore - and I just know them for 4 to 5 years but I can't get enough of this daily self-flagellation which makes me a little better once in a while
NoFX claims themselves that they've been a product of softening punk rock and they even talk about it in several of their songs during and after Pump up the Valium, Medio-core is one of them... so why would they get mad when this band calls them out on it? Though, I'm pretty sure NOFX was this band's claim to fame, even though I could be wrong.
When they were coming out, they latched onto that NOFX/Lagwagon sound, so yes. Now Propagandhi wants to be more crust, and it feels more forced than Leftover Crack trying to do it.
@@happycat4838 maybe you should do a little research and check some time stamps. You will find that Fat Mike credits this band for the signature FAT WRECK CHORDS sound as well as openly admitting to NOFX latching on to Propaghandis sound and even points to the exact time and album when it started. And lagwagon latched on along with every other relevant band at that time to Propaghandi. Nice try and it would make sense except for it doesn’t, because your wrong.
@@Kevinseay74 Fat Mike signed Propadandhi, not the other way around. Propagandhi did have a record label (G7) but they never put out any super successful records, though they definitely put out some rad records
@@boharcrump6312 yes sir you are correct and I never said anything to insinuate that it was the other way around. I was there, and I am well aware Fat Mike signed them. I’m also well aware that Fat Mike is on record stating NOFX/Fat Wreck Chords sound was heavily influenced by him producing “How To clean Everything” he even suggest that all one has to do is listen to NOFX prior to Propaghandi releasing How To clean Everything and listen to NOFX releases after. He was directly asked where the Fat Wreckchords sound came from and he did not hesitate when he said he believes Propaghandi solidified what would become the Fat Wreckchords sound. He points to the distinct catchy metal riffs. Now say what you want and think what you want, that’s how it went down. The rest is history. I will say that I personally heard Chris Hannah state that How to Clean Everything is his least favorite album and they were just 3 kids that wanted to sound like NOFX. No matter what , a goddamn beautiful thing was born from the partnership that has been a prominent part of a lot of fans lives.
I'll admit, I'm super late to the punk scene. I don't even know who Rancid is other than that they're a big deal. This song proves that if a song is good enough, you don't have to know what it's talking about to love it.
NoFX is my favorite band. And I like to hear references to my favorite band. But honestly, I do feel like I was played by the punk movement. So often, early 2000s skate-punk had a revolutionary aesthetic but politics that were really just slightly to the left of the Democratic Party. It wasn’t rock against capitalism - even if they acted like it was. It was rock for sustainable capitalism. And that’s disappointing. And I can see how a major player at Fat Wreck Chords would feel not just disappointed but broken hearted by this realization. But hey, there’s still something to be said for giving a middle finger to George W Bush when most mainstream artists and musicians were still afraid to
Is teh video he's talking about 'To have and have not' by lars Friederiksen? I don't see how it sends a bad message? Not all skins are racist and you don't have to be left wing to be punk. TBH Lars, Ranicd etc get too much grief for being successful. Easy targets tbh, go back to going after the corporations and politicians good sirs. Amazing song though.
I don't think your comparison is valid. Who you vote for is not your "master". I voted b/c I feel the democrats don't have as many mandatory sentencing...and I would rather see someone young with fresh ideas.....But honestly it really doesn't matter. yhey are all the same.
I feel like they ve put so much in the lyrics that they forgot make up a good tune around it. Even if Propagadhi usually kicks asses, this song is bad.
I am listening this tune today again and didn't remember writing this comment! Can't even remember the song. I guess I was butt hurt by how they are taking a jab at Nofx. Song is right on.
JoeyMino that lyric you're referring to isn't about Mike. It's about Lars Fredrickson and a certain video featuring nationalist "skins". The name of the song escapes me but that's probably due to the fact that I don't like garbage music.
Just so you guys know, Mike bent over backwards for these guys. Believed in them when they had absolutely nothing going for them and gave them a chance to be heard beyond Manitoba. Chris has turned into a rather bitter ungrateful person at the hands of taking his beliefs way to seriously. My statement takes nothing away from Propagandhi musically but on a personal level Chris isn't the nicest guy in the world. One of the best bands out there though.
I can dig that. My love of this band has always had to exist in spite if the fact that I am sure Chris would have nothing good to say about me either ( i hunt occasionally, and support the omnivorous human reality, even though I find the reality of abbatoirs and mass meat farming distasteful...though at the same time, if it meant that a starving family was fed, I would bash a seals brains in myself... I can also listen to punk music that is made by "sellouts"...If I find that I like the sound of the music, and the lyrics touch upon my feelings and beliefs.I guess that I can just take away what I want from it, you know? I don't really give lame fuck about the personalities that made the music, because if the message and the sound is in line with MY feelings, that's what counts. Just cause I listen to a song by a particular group, it doesn't mean that I adopt and espouse the opinions and politics of everybody IN the group... so yeah...mixed feelings re: Propagandhi. ..In some ways... but the truth is they ARE one of the "last bands standing" as far as certain types of punk rock ideas and attitudes go... and for that they have my respect and love. And that's to say nothing of the quality and creativity of the music itself, which Is always top notch.
+MrJackCanard "and support the omnivorous human reality" Buy saying, "it's natural" is not an argument. There's ton of natural things that we don't agree with.
Well they actually cleared up in A Fat Wreck that it was a jab at Mike (cause he likes to fuck with everyone also and he was just getting back at him) but it was not meant to be taken seriously . Like Mike was hurt but it all just got way out of hand .If Fat Mike was truly hurt by it he would not of released it on his label or continued his relationship with Chris after they left the Label. They are still great friends and its time for all this overblown drama to end. Once in the Fat family always in the Fat family.
Left wing to be a Punk? Well I am a libertarian. But I did vote for Obama but I own lots of guns. So you believe what you believe not vote for one party. Anyway it is a 2 party system that is very flawed due to lobbiest.
