Great comparison video. I had r58 and recently changed to the oracle. I make coffee every morning and get sick of time consuming when making latte. Breville the oracle is game changer. Very happy with this machine.
That's nice to hear most people seem to go the other direction. The people who "downgrade" you don't hear about as much cuz they seem to not be the ones that go on forums to continue the conversation. I think if you wanna make it an infinite hobby, rocket is good. But if you wanna dial in and get good espresso and simplicity, breville.
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+Seattle Coffee Gear ,... Dear Mrs.Gill, teacher i am barista of Deco coffee chiangmai, Thailand, a year now. i have found that many espresso machine are not realiable. Would you please do 2 experiment as possible for coffee lover...Thanks First, Check PID system, compare between premium espresso machines. In my case, i did on one espresso machine by set its boiler temp. at 94c and turn brewing water drop to glass and check temp. of water in that glass. i did this steps in many espresso machine. But you will be surprise that you not get the same temp. of water in the glass.Such as some 90c some 80c and may be 70c. This amazed me that some espresso machine can not do espresso properly. Second, Check flow rate of brewing water at 9 bar and No pre-infrusion. Again! i did on variety of espresso machine. This will be surpised you too that some deliver water too slow and some too fast. Both case are effected to each espresso. Many of my friends feeling bad for money that they spend for espreeso machine that they thought its good but its not...................i can not do much to help them out of problem. Because some machine is very expensive. Hope and Thanks P.Sataponchai, Deco coffee chiangmai
well I had the rocket for 15 years now. it's still going strong I do about 4 shots a day 3 with froth this is every day with no skipping days. I love the machine. it cost around 2000 and I will probably get another one. hope this helps you guys.
What type of Rocket exactly do you have? It must really be one of the first generations. I bought my Giotto Evoluzione R a year ago and could not be happier. 15 years sounds very promising concerning the machine's longevity.
I have the oracle on my office and a rocket at home. Both very different machines. The oracle is easy to use for me and my staff where the rocket is more technical and you need to have an interest on coffee to use it. The shots and milk frothing are superior from the oracle however for a semi auto machine the oracle does a great job.
I have the Oracle. 2 years and 3 months in, the automatic tamper now malfunctions and overpacks the porta filter so no water come through. A separate grinder is now needed. As the Oracle has aged, the water throughput is less. My wife drinks americanos and adding the hot water takes a while. We descale on a regular basis so that’s not it. I think our next machine may be the Rocket R58 because I like the double boiler design. Keep in mind that so many features means more opportunities for failures.
Couldn't agree more with you. Breville makes among the worst machine ever with tons of automatic gimmick and cheap parts that all fails within 2-3 years only! The Oracle of my mom had it's pump die after just 2 years at most, and now 6 years since she had it, the list of the issue keeps growing exponentially. The automatic tamper really overpacks, water has a hard time going through, and that's even with the force set to the minimum of 1, the puck is hard to get out of the portafilter at the end, it's all messy when it tries to level/tamp, the grinder is much worse than a seperate 225$ grinder, even if this is a 2500$ machine. Actually the Oracle is a 1225$CAD (The Dual Boiler) with a super aweful 50$ grinder built-in, then price is bumped to 2500$CAD for no reason. Oh and that steam wand as shown in the video is a total joke, the texture settings makes zero difference and forget about having any foam or cappucino with this crap. You have to go into manual mode and hold it so the wand isn't in the worst position at the very bottom and still... it's so weak that it's gonna be just a bit better. The tank leaks a lot from under the drip tray and behind while we brew, the portafilter also leaks, the taste of the coffee is super disgusting and undrinkable without tons of milk. Breville customer service in Canada is the worst I ever seen. They never answer the phone 50% of the time, waiting time are super long, 3/4 of their rep are rude over the phone, and the warranty is a joke. They want 350$ for a repair and I have to ship myself the machine, like who the **** have a super thick and huge box to send such unit, they can't even send me a pre-built box to ship it to them. They have their headquarter in Montreal next to me but they still force me to ship the thing in another province for the repair. They also void ur warranty if you get it repaired by any "coffee shop", it must be Breville and all accessories sold by them are 5x more expensive than they should be, only cause you pay for the "Breville" tag while it's just cheap generic parts from China. Now time will tell if in 3-4 weeks they'll send me a refurbished machine or attempt repairing my Oracle lemon. If only I could have got my money back to buy another (Rocket R58) like I bought myself 6 months ago. The R58 is 1000x better in every single way, it's unbelieable!
@@PanzerIV88 Breville has its own quirks and requires some maintenance for hoses and O-rings. But I consider many of the issues being to some extent related to how they are used. I have 3 Brevilles: 1. Barista express (retired last year but still works). It's the first generation and is about 14 years old. Everything on it works. 2. Older Oracle with shot counter now around 7000. Still going strong. Occasionally descaled, 10-ish years old. Some o-rings and hoses replaced (about $100 worth of hoses and orings). Has recently started to have reduced steam pressure which I have not investigated yet. 3. Newer Oracle (different hose connections inside), working perfectly with about 2000 shot counter and 5 years old. Breville's durability weaknesses: - The worst thing that can happen to a Breville dual boiler/Oracle is the thermal fuse which is at a terrible location and blows if you are not careful during descale. - Some hoses and most o-rings last about 5 years (Though the 14 y.o. Barista express hasn't developed a leak yet). - Air pump can die (for auto frothing). One has died and I never replaced 'cause I don't use auto froth. - If you don't fix steam leak (O-ring) soon after a leak develops, you may damage diac board (choice of $100 board or $4 diac to solder on board) What I miss on oracle is the pressure gauge and dual burn free steam wand. I haven't ever had a Breville with failed grinder. Not best grinder but has been pretty reliable.
@@yashmaval Since 10-15 years ago there's been sooo many new machines on the market and things keep getting better and better for the same price it used to be, with technologies from flagship models going down to more affordable models. I feel like these days there is 0 reason to buy anything from Breville, cheap Chinese plastic overrated stuff when you can get better performance, higher durability and less plastic for the same price with other companies, either made from China or Europe. Breville only has 1 advantage, the name is well known to the big public but no expert is ever gonna recommend that to any enthusiast.
Thanks for the video. I'm thinking about upgrading my Breville Barista Express, so I have been hoping for a comparison video like this, but I'm curious why you compared the R58 to the Breville Oracle rather than the Breville Dual Boiler. Those are the models I've been looking at. The Dual Boiler is more similar to the Rocket in terms of functionality while the Oracle seems to be in a class of its own, not quite superautomatic, not quite semi-automatic, but something in between. The only reason I can think of is that the price point is a bit closer between the Oracle and R58 than the Dual Boiler and the R58, but that's not nearly as relevant as functionality to me. The Rocket line as a whole is confusing to me. I'd love to see a video that explains the whole line in relationship to each other. A feature comparison chart on the website would be useful too. Like everyone else, I
Thanks for watching Ray Nosko! We decided to compare these two models because of the multiple requests from our customers :) Be sure to stay tuned to our channel, we will be taking a closer look at the Rocket lineup later this week!
Judging by it's predecessors the Breville has probably has a life span of 2-3 years. Google reviews show them lucky to reach two years. The Rocket however with seals replaced every 3-4 years will last anything up to 20 years.
Like you said, the Rocket is more suited for making drinks faster especially when it comes to lattes or other frothed milk drinks. The Oracle is more for single or two drinks per setting type machine. If you're the barista at family gatherings or holiday parties, like me, then I would go with the Rocket.
How about a blind taste test between the 2 machines, I really would like to see that from your staffs expert tastebuds! I'm buying one or the other, but I can't taste them from Montana☕️ thanks!
+Patrick Hover Taste is very subjective! Both are going to brew great espresso, as long as you have fresh beans and the proper grind! The question truly comes down the features!
My mom have the Breville Oracle and blind or not, it taste like if I've done a oil drain from my car and drank it straight. Without ton of milk it's completely horrible, thanks to the 50$ grinder they put on a 2500$CAD machine, with crappy automatic feature that fails within 2 years (pump died, tamper tamps too hard, water pressure is much less than when it was new, leaks a lot too, steam wand is super weak and pathetic compare to the R58 I have at home, etc)!
@@PanzerIV88 Rubbish. There are people who know coffee much better than you who say otherwise. If your coffee tasted as bad as you say, you should not have used your garbage in the grinder. Get some proper coffee next time.
@@bxf99999 Looks like I must have offended someone with a Breville appliance here lol. I use the same high quality fresh grains from a local torrefactor and that surely wasn't and isn't the issue as I've always been using that one and she still use it on the Rocket machine I bought her that blows away by 20x any Breville crap. I even tried to grind it on my Rocket Fausto instead of the cheap 50$ built-in grinder from Breville and it still gave bad results. The machine sucks but was also faulty. I did a RMA and sold it asap.
@@PanzerIV88 It's one thing to say that you've had better than what you get from the Oracle, but to call it garbage and go against the opinion of many other reviewers, who find the coffee quite good, says something about you, not the machine.
I originally bought the Breville but after about two years found it to be somewhat unreliable with internal water leaks. It was repaired under warranty but issues remained. I replaced it with a Rocket which has performed flawlessly. The Breville did make an excellent shot though.
Nice review Gail. I think the Breville definitely has a place as a serious 'home' consumer-contender machine for people that want the convenience of a super-auto but with the control (PID, dual boiler, timer etc) of a serious machine. For me the Rocket R58 is a serious semi-commercial traditional 'Faema Style E61' traditional espresso machine. Which, when partnered with an equally serious grinder (Mazzer SJ or similar) will easily fulfill the needs of the aspiring home barista or low-volume cafe. I'm not ready to give up either of my HX machines just yet (Elektra Micro Casa Semiautomatica and Euro 2000 Junior Deluxe), the latter being an E61 group machine, both 58mm full size chromed solid brass 'naked' PF's & 21g baskets partnered with my Mazzer Super Jolly ......however, that little Breville looks to be a lovely competent little machine :) My only caveat would be concerning the 'all-in one' nature of the grinder, tamper and auto-steaming ability....what happens if/when one one part of it breaks down? How operable is the rest of the machine?
Lovely presentation, however the oracle pressure is too low no matter what I adjust I can’t get that cream on top for a short black. The frothier at max is poor. The flavour is horrible compared to what I am used to. Apart from that it is a good design. Did I mention how noisy this machine is in grinding?
There may not be a right or wrong, however there's way more to go wrong with the programmable Brevelle. Simplicity saves lots of eventual inconveniences.
If my count is right, it took full 70 seconds for Breville Oracle to steam the milk which is absurdly slow. Using my Giotto Evoluzione R, I finish this work for 350 ml jug in about 12 seconds. Imagine making milk for four drinks in a row.
Hi Gail, great review (again..) I am still orientating for a good machine so I am watching all your vids with great pleasure. I am really thinking of buying a Rocket so far... but I am wondering. How is the grinder of the Breville. Because as I learned, that is a very important part of making a great coffee. Can you get the same quality shot with the Breville as with the Rocket?
love to see the machines in action. can wait to buy one and serve the people. what is latte art do you practice it or learn how. any ways love your coffee videos. like going to coffee college.
Great review, one issue where Breville can beat the Rocket massively is if you like to do Caf in the morning and Decaf in afternoon. With Breville you can buy another bean holder and substitute very easily, but with the Rocket, it will be hard to change back and forth since you are using a grinder, unless the grinder can do similar exchange like the Breville.. i m searching this still so I am not sure...
In my opinion the Rocket has extraordinary reliability and serviceability.......which is a weaker area with the Breville BUT for ease of use and quality of drink consistency the Breville has to be the winner. Definitely Gail for President ! A very interesting review - Many thanks.
I'm wondering about a single shot on the Breville since you can't adjust dosage, does it always dose for two shots? I haven't been able to find this anywhere. This would be my dream machine someday!!!
Good review, but it's a little like comparing an apple to an orange. Both fruits, but very different. With the Rocket, the user still has to learn all the ins and outs of grinding, tamping, etc - and all the foibles that can come with that. The Breville does 90% of that for you.
It is nice to have all the automation of the Breville ..... until it breaks. So the true cost of owning will be much higher than the purchase price. I bought a Breville BES830XL 3 years ago and at the time seemed like a good idea. first one was replaced by the store in about 8 months the second has a water leak inside somewhere and since have just replaced it with a cheaper Seaco no automation but it works better
I’m thinking the same thing. Been researching. As sexy as the breville is ... and I love the breville products that I already own ... I saw pics of the plumbing in various machines and the breville is a joke as compared to the built-like-a-tank plumbing in the expensive machines.
Oracle seems pretty interesting...not my cup of tea (pun), but interesting, nonetheless. Wish breville would work a company like mazzer to create an ultimate machine!! And wow... That took a long time to froth that milk.
Hi there from Switzerland. I just switched from a simple Vibiemme Domobar to the Rocket R58 with a mazzer mini. Steam power is really great. Strangely, good espresso shots were easyer with the vibiemme. I haven't found a good setup for a constant shot quality. Too bitter or too fast..... The Oracle Machine in your test is interesting but i prefer the traditional way.
Oliver Joss It will take a little time to be able to get the shot just right. Congrats on your upgrade! We recently posted a video on dialing in a grinder that you may find some useful information in. Be sure to check it out if you haven't already. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rBiLSMrgk0k.html
I DO NOT LIKE the Breville machines, I had one for a couple of days, and I got the feeling something'd go wrong every minute .. I've bought a ECM, I'm extremely happy with it ;)
I own a R58 and after watching this, I cant see how these machines can be compared as similar products. Yes they do both have double boilers, but that appears to be the only thing they have in common. I dont own a breville so I wont comment on its durability, but I can say after owning my R58 for over a year, I expect to have this the rest of my life. I also expect that if I need parts or service at some point I can get those from a variety of sources, or buy the parts and install them myself. I would doubt that would be possible with the Breville. Also, the steaming doesn't appear to be close in performance. This is not knocking the Breville, rather its me saying I dont think the breville is in the prosumer class the R58 is.
Like all things, it comes down to trade offs. That’s the problem I have right now because I’m not totally sure what I value most. I personally prefer the rocket. But my wife would never use it and she would be frustrated with the counter space I would need and the coffee grounds that will eventually be left behind. On the other hand, the rocket is a thing of beauty.
Hey guys, it's been awhile since you've done a "choose a machine" series of videos. I wanted to upgrade from my delonghi ec155 soon and was looking for something with a bit more quality. What would be your recommendation on a machine that provides control, but with programmable shot timers?
you didn't show much of the other machine on your right, grinding and making coffee haha. doesn't the Breville allow just get hot water for making Tea? Nice looking machines but I like Breville Oracle BES980XL Espresso Machine. they should make another model with two group or / and plus adding main water pipe connection, taking only water for making a Tea and top with around grill so cups wont fall off like the one on your right. I would of buy this Breville as gift to my friend Small coffee shop but I don't think Breville would be suitable for a small coffee shop where they make around 50 coffee a day?
Two machines for two different type of users. There is one usability difference though: the Oracle can be use by the entire house w minimal or no training, the rocket most likely no. Now, i am convinced that after some learning curve (and a good grinder - other extra stuff like a coffee weight) Rocket coffee quality will be much better than the Oracle.
Hi, if I may ask you a question? I can't turn the cap of a water bottle off and I have limited use of my good arm, hand and grip, wouldn't the Oracle be my choice, other than all other machines, the Oracle can do the mechanics of manipulating it? I'm trying to say that if I can't turn something or... Can you make an espresso using your right hand and only a pincher grip using your thumb and forefinger, and a little bit of help from your week middle finger?I would be using my life savings for this and it would be an awful shiny boat anchor if I can't have at it. Any help thank you
+Mr Mr The Oracle would be a better choice for your situation. The auto tamping would be very beneficial. Are you in the Seattle area? You can always come by one of our stores to give it a test!
Hi, I own the Oracle and honestly I'm disappointed in it's steaming capability. I like cappuccinos and it doesn't froth the milk very well. I have it set to cap and still seems to froth like a latte. I've tried different types of milk but same results. What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions?
I have the Breville Oracle which is called the Sage Oracle here in the uk I absolutely love this machine This machine blows the Jura J90 which was my previous machine,out of the water. great tasting coffee and the milk is perfect
When it comes to loving coffee and espresso there two type of people, the first just wanna drink great coffee/espresso but doesn't care about the process. The second loves coffee/espresso and care about the process. For the first group the Breville is a slam dunk, great coffee and no fuss. For the second group the Rocket is unbeatable.
can you demo a tamping stand or two? I d a stroke and can inly use my right hand, so I can't hold a port a filter and tamp at the same time - any advice apprecisated
Great suggestion! We'd also recommend looking into a balanced portafilter where the handle and the spouts sit perfectly horizontal on your surface. Then you can set it down flat, and tamp with one hand. Nuova Simonelli and Rancilio both feature this style of portafilter.
I buy my stuff from SCG, but this comparison is superficial and not very helpful. What about build quality, can we see side by side of what’s inside the skin? Clearly the Rocket is built better, will last longer and by your own customer reviews the Oracle is not. I think you should present both views and let the customer decide if convenience is more important than a higher quality, more expensive machine?
I cannot fathom 2k for a Breville, yes it has lots of features no doubt I'd rather spend the extra money and get a rocket that I know will last a lot longer then the Breville. Besides the rocket would look very nice next to my Eureka Migon Specilitta 55
The Oracle is too digital for my home, would be nice in a multiple user office environment. The Rocket then again is way to heavy duty and expensive to justify my daily double shot at home. Personally I therefore go for sth. more affordable in the middle, the Barista Express ;) Thanks for the nice vids.
I can't stand automatic-espresso anything. Give me hands-on, high-risk/high-reward espresso making. I want to finesse excellent coffee, not brutalize it with an assembly line of robots. There's no pride in offering someone a drink from an automatic machine. Might as well ask one of your guests to pick up some Starbucks on their way to your house. The Oracle is a Hallmark card. An E61 machine is a thoughtful hand-written letter. I know which one I'd want to receive :) #changemymind
As I am moving my coffee brewing forward - and upwards, I realize how critical the grinder is and the best extraction requires a grinder worthy of that task. I am not impressed with the grinder Breville builds into their machines.
+Honest Cigar Reviemost high end machines don't have fancy gimmicks...thats because they want to give you full control. something i didn't understand until i purchased my first machine.
+Internationale1 I will probably choose the Oracle as its more the kind of machine for me, but the build quality is simply no match for the Rocket Tank, 100% no argument there. Also the Rocket looks damn cool. However in the UK with a good grinder the Rocket is so much more expensive. eqv $2136 vs $3702 inc say $550 grinder
The Breville wont last as long as the other machine, a PCB will pack it in and the Breville will be uneconomical to replace. Give me the Rocket with its easy to repair and simplistic parts anyday.
Had an Orcale 4 months and I'm happy with it, but they're very different machines. If you like using scales to control the amount of coffee ground and extracted you'll hate the Orcale since that's controlled by the machine. If you're happy to press a few buttons and get a decent coffee each time then the Orcale is for you.
The oracle is a toy, a pos. coffee machines with built in grinders have always been dodgy, this is no different. R58 is a proper machine and with a good grinder, say the niche will allow you make way better coffee and the R58 will be easier to maintain and fix. When the oracle breaks down it goes in the bin.
