Rogak P18 - A Cautionary Tale of Manufacturing 

It's interesting that RIA says this pistol is in poor condition when it's pretty much in the same condition it was when it left the factory, lol.

I like the idea that Steyr filed a lawsuit not because of the design theft but because it's just such an awful, awful gun.

I feel a bit disappointed at not seeing STEYRS STEYRS STEYRS stamped on it somewhere.

I can't help but picture Rogak as a used-car salesman in a plaid jacket, trying to cajole people into buying "this quality replica of a fine Austrian firearm".

There was a guy in Illinois to see Who wanted to copy the Steyr GB But this man called Rogak Made it simple blowback And in the end had to pay the fee

I used to work in a steel casting facility that made mostly automotive and aerospace components, and these are the kinds of casting flaws things would have been rejected for.

Wow, nothing like a pistol that looks like it is being held together with drywall screws.

Personally I think the Rogak is a rare example of absolute genius. You could make these in the comfort of your own bedroom. That's luxury right there.

Are you positive they had schematics of the GB and not just Polaroids?

When your manufacturing makes late war German manufacturing look good you probably shouldn't make a firearm.

The Rogak doesn't seem like something safe to fire, to be honest. I'd love to see some more about the Steyr GB, though. That thing is beautiful.

Videos about counterfeit/copycat guns are my favorite part about this channel. It's fascinating to see how engineers with varying degrees of technical understanding and manufacturing capability attempt to recreate weapons.

Rogak was made in Morton Grove IL, the Chicago suburb that simply outlawed firearms. I drove past the factory on a summer job daily.

I'm suprised that Ian did not mention the irony that this gun was made in Morton Grove, Illinois, the first town in America to outlaw the ownership of handguns by citizens.

'Rogak' sounds like the name one would find on a Khyber/Chinese Mystery Ruger knock-off.

Ian made this with a file and some sandpaper; he is currently laughing at everyone who believed his storytelling.

My father had one of these when I was a kid, so I've always been kind of fascinated with it. (He sold it for around 50 bucks and felt like he got a damn good deal for that price.) Near as I can tell, there were three 'production' (using that term loosely) runs, with the second being the largest. The first run (2xxx) series were ~200, the 6xxx series anywhere from 400 to 800, and the final run (12xxx) less than 200. So, altogether there were anywhere between 900-1200 of these made, with 1,000 being a fairly safe estimate. The 120,000 serial numbers were known as the 'best' in terms of reliability but were usually the worst looking, with machining marks and tool dings apparent. From what I understand, Rogak had less than 30 days to clear out of town, so he and his family hand-assembled the remaining parts he had laying around in his kitchen and were able to create another hundred or two hundred pistols that they sold to a wholesaler for about $10 per gun. The remaining machinery and spare parts were sold as scrap metal. Rogak was a pretty inventive guy. I think he intentionally wanted to create a unique, well-made pistol that could serve the law enforcement and military markets, but he wasn't a very good businessman. His lack of financial acumen lead to cost-cutting in nearly every step of the manufacturing process, and he had the political naivety to set up a gun foundry in the city that would later become infamous for being the first town in the US to ban all handguns.

ive seen Khyber pass pistols with better quality than this

Khyber Pass gunsmiths are saying, "Wow, what a piece of crap."

During disassembly I kept expecting *clunk* "Shit! I broke it."

The Rogak up close looks like a fake gun, like something you find in a prop department of Asylum Films or something.

SO the European Steyr has the standard magazine release we're used to while the American Rogak has a European release. WHAT??? I think Steyr 'leaked' a copy of the plans from one of the early prototypes and that's what Rogak made. LOL!!!! Funny that Rogak was based in Morton Grove, IL, known for being, the first city in the US to ban handguns. Phillips head screws. OMG!!!!!! -Jen

Somehow I get the creepy feeling, that Rogak slide would end up embedded to shooters forehead.

Good lord, I mean if you made this in your shed then fair play, but as a Pistol made for commercial production and sale, its rather embarrassing.

That matt-finish Steyr is a beautiful looking handgun. The Rogak just looks like a cheap and nasty toy.

I get the feeling it went like this: Ian wanted to say "This gun is junk" Rock Island wanted "Say something positive so people want this thing" What actually happened "This thing is junk but you should buy it anyway"

The Phillips headed screws on the grips is a "special" touch. I seem to recall an article by a notable writer of the day deriding these pistols for being a piece of junk.

It took me many years to eventually “buy in” to the concept of molded or cast parts. This video has sent me back to my 1950’s mindset.

"It looks like it was done... Honestly, I... Want to say a Dremel?" 😂😂😂

When your Steyr GB knock off makes a Hi-Point Look like High Art, one might want take time to pause and reflect upon the "quality control" of the manufacturer.

By the end of this video I expected this gun to covered Brevet stamps like a Chinese Mystery Gun that Ian has looked at in the past.

Rogak sounds like a shifty dwarf from dragon age.

The one dislike was Les Rogak

For an extreme contrast in quality, and as a palate cleanser, watch his video of the Korth PRS next.

Oh my God those screws on the rogak grips.

I want to buy this. I really do. Strikes me as everything wrong to do in machining, making a handgun. Also because it just doesn't ever shouldn't be fired. That GB on the other hand, damned that looks really good.

I have had the great pleasure of shooting a Steyr GB, it was a great shooting weapon. Definately do not shoot lead bullets, has to be sent back to Steyr to be cleaned. I did not do that lol another friend did.

" with some disagreement over whether it was unlicensed or just unfortunately made." ...or: made, unfortunately. whichever

I watched this in the hospital the day after my first son was born. I will never forget it

It looks like a gun made by the side very much losing a war, scrimping on everything.

Ahh, the ol' Chinese design philosophy: Take a successful existing design, copy with quality shortcuts to minimize cost.

Always impressed by your videos and the level of detail you get into. Extremely thorough examination of temporal context and influence on the macro timeline and the micro timeline of the fire arm itself. Keep up the fantastic work!

I think Rogak was actually an underappreciated genius in simplifying the design. No fussy tight-tolerance gas system, no extractor, no fancy-pants milling and polishing. Just a Dremel tool and a dream!

The Rogak must be a popular gun with the 14 year old sicarios in El Salvador and Guatemala.

This gun is of about the best quality that one can expect from something coming out of the Wile E. Coyote School of Gunsmithing. This, my friends, is the WECSOG Premium™ Line.

I like the last phrase from the description box; "guns of this quality are quite rare to find from US manufacturers!" indeed!

You are a joy to listen to . I’m not even super into guns but you’re so informative , well spoken , and obviously “love your work”! Thank you

Just like a Chinese Mystery pistol. Ian, bid on it and run it in a 2 gun match. Use the Ladies' Home Companion as the long gun.

I love how you can buy these new in box, untouched, for about $200.

The very meaning of the saying - "Good from afar but far from good"

Oh man, I just rewatched a bunch of Lifesizedpotato's videos, including the GB. What timing!

I've been watching these videos everyday. I really enjoy the history and the manufacturing story's.

reminds me of what you'd see made with hand files in a shack somewhere in vietnam

Ian, do a video on the HK G11. You haven't covered ceaseless ammunition in a while. Get this comment to the top!

better guns have been made in war time Rhodesia

Mike and Morrie owned L.E.S. at 3640 W. Dempster. Skokie ,IL. I was Friends and also did a lot of Business with them. They had brought in Imported the complete F.N.F.A.L. Rifle System and the Mag 58 Belt feed and the C.A.L. 5.56. RIFLE ALSO. Besides the F.N. Hi -Power for military and Law Enforcement.From the early 70's thru 1982 Till they went out of business When Mikes Dad passed away with Cancer. They also owned the Manville guns which was a gas launcher gun made in the 30's, Which a copy was made for 'Dog Of War" movie with Chris Walken. Know the full history of These. And they never went anyplace. And was one of the downfalls of a very Successful class three Machinegun business. Mike is Now Retired. Was glad to see this posted here.There story of the FAL importation is far more interesting, A new one in box sold recently for $500 Dollars.A sad ending to something I was involved with for many years with them. The F.A.L. rifle was the winner.The P-18 A Dream that became a downfall nightmare.

Would love to see a side by side comparison of them firing in slow motion.

The Steyr GB may have been inspired by the Gustloff VG 1-5, but it seems the Rogak P18 was made like one.

Ian, the voids are called porosity, which is pretty common in low to mid range castings. It's an air bubble in the casting, generally from being poured incorrectly.

I recall this gun, when it first came out, I drooled over the magazine capacity, and in Stainless Steel even, wow that was the gun I wanted on my hip. Thankfully I never ordered one, I had an ffL at the time, however my paycheck was a bit short, and by the time it got around to buying another hand gun, the desire for a stainless was still there, but I had changed my mind about the 9 mm and went with a .45 ACP instead, purchasing an AMT Hardballer, nice gun but it too suffered a bit from lack of finishing. The main problem I had would have been an easy fix today, but back then I was not trained, when I took her out to the range to zero her in, (She had a set of sights right off an S&W Model 19 in appearance!) I found that about every third shot, the firing pin came out the back, what was happening was the sight elevation screw was too long, and the firing pin would stick forward, then the retainer would come out an when the slide slammed forward, the firing pin would bounce loose, and come flying out the back of the gun. Now days I would have I would have simply filed the screw down a tit and put in into the gun, I am sure she would be good to go, however I was still new to the gun world, so I traded her off on a target M1911A1 with an UGLY chrome top, a huge rib holding fully adjustable sight system, this added so much weight that the recoil was extremely slow. she took every thing I could feed her so the work on the frame and feed ramp was very good. This gun was heavy though, and I eventually traded her for something else.

I still remember the gun magazines for the L.E.S. P-18..."Give it your best shot...19 times!" (Superimposed on a target with 19 bullet holes in it.) I wonder how often a full magazine could actually be fired without a malfunction. ;-) Also, I owned a Steyr GB for several years in the mid-80's. It was a very fine pistol, although a heavy beast considering it was a 9mm. I often wish I had kept it, just because you don't see them very often.

I particularly love the drywall screws on the grips. That's a quality touch. DID YOU KNOW: The good folk of Morton Grove were so embarrassed by this pistol, they banned handguns in their town. (Well, OK, it probably wasn't because of the P18. They did have a handgun ban, though.)

I've known my gunsmith and I've been friends with him since about 1977. He is the most connected person with Firearms design and manufacture that I've ever known personally. Not that I've ever met. Because I have met mr. Bill Ruger and Eugene stoner my gunsmith happens to be a contract engineer for a number of firearms companies and defense companies around the world. He also has several patents for things that he is done with weapons that the Navy Seals still use. He's not long for this Earth, but he is quite connected and I remember talking to him about the military trials when they pick the Beretta and he was very close with a lot of the people who try to use that POS including the Navy Seals who one day on the beach when Admiral stop by and ask him what they thought of their guns, every single one of them pulled it out of its holster and threw it into the ocean. The problem with the slide being cut away, is not so much that it keeps dirt from staying inside the gun, is it allows all kinds of dirt to get into the gun in the first place. And if you recall, when they originally did the test Colt cried foul. They grabbed three well-used 1911's and brought them up to specification and not a single test that the Army had put all of these old Colts against these brand new bread is through, did the 1911 fail. He also had when there's several other Firearms head out perform the Beretta. Even the gun that had been recently adopted by the Italian military was a better gun than the Beretta. Not to mention that stupid look lover at the back of the slide that when you do a clearance drill on the slide you can easily disable the gun and get killed by your enemy. Stupidest place for a supposed safety. Although technically it's not a safety it's actually a decocking lever which has no business being on a military or personal protection firearm in that location.

At the end of this video I really just find myself wanting a GB because it seems so well-designed by comparison.

this reminds me of that vietnamese 1911 copy you covered a while ago

Jesus christ here i thought our wartime production rifles and pistols were bad, this would have someone sent to siberia

The quality difference is apparent even from a distance, when it's side by side with the "real thing". It might not be a "Chinese mystery pistol" but Ian's "Khyber Pass" is hilariously accurate!

These are wonderful lessons of gunsmithing and collections of history.

Keep it up! Looking forward for more videos from you, don't stop!

Morton Grove: First in service, first in safety. Those are both lies.

That is the finest garage built gun I've ever seen.

The title is perfect. I've used this video as a cautionary tale for a number of new machinists that thought they knew how guns should be made.

oh look the new Remington :)

I'm sure the seller appreciates the publicity. 😃

I don't know what's more interesting? The guns or Ians presentations. He's good.

Your insights into the mechanical operation and manufacturing techniques make your channel unique! Great video.

Rogak sounds like a low level star wars villain

Hey Ian, The Steyr GB seems to be a superior pistol to the Beretta from your description of accuracy. Also just from looking at it seems more simple for a soldier to look after too (Cant comment on it against the Glock as I've never handled one personally). So my question is could you elaborate on why it lost its trials in Austria and the US? I'd love to find out why. Keep up the good work love your videos.

When I was a teenager I was fascinated with the thought of making my own pistol. I did some hand drawings and my design look very very similar to this piece. It was technologicaly different though.

Excellent vid!

Man that thing is nasty

Steyr: "We've got this nailed!" Gaston Glock: Lol

This is the first time seeing a video featuring a gun that I wouldn't want to try and shoot because I'd be fearing for my own safety!

The Steyr GB. One of Paul Harrells most featured sidearms. That was the first place where I heard about the GB. Really interesting design.

This may be a prime example of "Friday Afternoon Labour"

Proof that "Made in America" is not the guarantee of quality that so many in the US gun industry try to claim to draw in 'Hoo-rah, 'Merica' types.

I actially searched your video db for a review of a Steyr GB, and now I got it. By accident, more or less, but still: thanks!

Always something new to learn from Ian, I had no idea a straight blowback could extract without an extractor.

It would be a nice gun, when someone would tell me he made it alone by himself in his garage. =)

This thing's design style and deviations from the real-deal are VERY reminiscent of those jungle 1911 knockoffs (among others) of the Vietnam War era. Same design "theory" if that makes sense. I wonder if the makers learned from the jungle engineers..

I recall when those first came out. I was an FFL dealer, and really wanted to get one. Now I didn't know they were crap, I had seen them in Shotgun News and even considered buying one, then the money I had set aside for it found another use. I purchased the highest quality 9mm that I have ever seen. It was a German Luger in extremely nice condition with holster and extra magazine, I got it from the son of the old man who brought it home from WWII. I was very happy with that 9mm and now I Can see that I would have been very disappointed had the kid not walked into the barber shop when I was getting my hair cut with the Luger to sell to the Barber, who was also a gun dealer.

I love this episode. I watched it many times. Thanx Ian

What is the likelihood the it is a knock off of pretrials version of the Styer? Are their any known pretrails examples to compare against? This pistol seems to have a few design features from the pistol generation before.

Is that thing even safe to shoot?

I owned a styer gb and loved it, fantastic pistol and held 18 rounds, but I bought it second hand and it only had the one mag, I looked high and low for spare mags but found it impossible, I eventually sold it but regretted it almost immediately, a truly underrated pistol.

Look at all the apprentice marks on on that gun. Looks like they went after it with a dull beaver. Plus the casting looks like the surface of the moon or it's not actually cast but powdered metal injection molded. Gross.

No one has finished watching yet, but I see 46 likes.

Nothing like having a weapon that doesn't clear when you clear it. You remove the magazine and cycle the slide and there's still one in the chamber! It's a good thing that so few of these were made.

The Steyr is quite beautiful and elegantly designed.

I have a Chinese Tokarev that is higher quality than that thing.