Roger Ver Debates Charlie Lee (FULL DEBATE) - What is Bitcoin? 

Who do you think won the debate? What defines Bitcoin to you?

my admiration to Charlie lee for this patience , very rude how Roger behaved, not cool on his part , with continuos interruptions and not letting Charlie lee explain his points !

Way too aggressive, Roger. It seems that you don't want to learn anything from a debate with another person. You just want to deliver your narrative.

Bitcoin Cash is peer to peer cash for the world. BTC is now something else.

Let the man speak roger. So annoying.

Jesus christ Roger, let the man speak!

This isn't a debate it's just Ver doing what he always does. Question people over and over hoping they trip up.

roger lost

the roger guy is really obnoxious

I sold out all of BCash and will never buy again

This interview just lends further evidence to the fact that Roger Ver is a deeply insecure and defensive beta in the crypto space.

Once Roger can't answer a question he creates a distraction...sort of like CNN news anchors.

Rogers way of debating is just awful. Constantly asking leading questions and interrupting all through the debate.

Roger: I consider myself an economist. Charlie: Okay.

No respect for Roger's debate style. Interruptions, demeaning attitude.. How can I even consider the points Roger makes when he acts this way?

Roger was right so right thank you Roger

51:30 Ver doesn't understand that it wasn't censored by the network. The node censored itself by refusing inbound connections.

this is the reason why we have bitcoin, not bcash ;)

Charlie Lee has shredded Roger Ver into pieces. What a patient monk.

I'm am the average Joe that makes less than $40,000 a year, Father of 4 boys and a lovely wife. When I got into Bitcoin early last year I invested in altcoins. I stayed away from Bitcoin. I'm giving The world my unbiased opinion because I don't own any Bitcoin. Having experienced purchasing and sending Bitcoin from exchange to exchange for the sole reason of purchasing altcoins and having purchased some low priced things with Bitcoin ( like my bitpay visa) I can tell you that using Bitcoin is extremely frustrating. Not only is it extremely slow and extremely expensive, but it made me anxious and nervous when I had to complete transactions using Bitcoin. One day I finally decided to try out Bitcoin Cash and it is the opposite experience of Bitcoin. Fast and cheap. Sorry but Bitcoin Cash in my opinion is the real Bitcoin. I don't care about what other people say, I have my own personal experiences that tell me Bitcoin sucks and Bitcoin Cash is the way Bitcoin was meant to be.

god dammit, will you let him finish a point?!

BCH is BCash to me, like most people I feel RV is just hijacking Bitcoin for his own ends. That's why people call in BCash. I feel RV is a narcissist.

Charlie was trying so hard not slap him lol

"Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?"

For the newbs watching, BTC is Bitcoin by consensus. The majority has spoken. To fork bitcoin in favor of one's one business interests is fine, but to name the resulting altcoin "Bitcoin" is total deception. Don't waste your money on Bcash. It only serves the interests of Roger and his cronies.

I love BCH just as much as the next guy, but from an unbiased view point, I would like to try to explain what this video is. Ver obviously paid Charlie Lee for this 1.5 hour long talk. I guess you can call it a debate, but Ver is really using Charlie Lee to explain the faults in what BTC proponents think. For example, how censored r/Bitcoin is, how many people enjoy high mining fees, and BTC's shift away from an eCash network over to a store of value utility. For example, Ver keeps bringing up the idea that BCH is the real Bitcoin, and he does this by outlining a list of requirements needed for Bitcoin to be Bitcoin. He then asks Charlie questions about whether or not this list is valid, all the while correcting him on what he says right after. I don't know if I would call this a debate, since Ver has all the power here due to the fact that he is paying Charlie. Charlie can walk out, but obviously wouldn't get paid. So Ver can be as rude, inpatient, and argumentative as he wants to be. I think Ver is kind of wasting his time trying to claim to be Bitcoin, because that does not matter. What matters is whether or not BCH is a good P2P eCash system. If BCH does what it sets out to do, then being the "real" Bitcoin does not matter. I suppose being considered the real Bitcoin does well for brand recognition, but given the proper amount of time BCH will develop a brand recognition of its own. If BTC wants store of value utility, that's great! This gives BCH the opportunity to fulfill the utility of P2P eCash. We just need to wait and see how this scalability race turns out.

Roger Ver is the bad guy from the movies... We all know what happens in the end

Charlie = Composed/intelligent Roger = Not

Section 1 of the whitepaper strongly indicates that Bitcoin should have low on chain fees.

8:30 This sums up the fundamental problem with people these days. They think words don't have meaning essentially because they do not want to admit the fact that they're wrong.

Charlie is calm and Roger is too aggressive. My money is on Calm. We are entering a new frontier. It's very exciting, as most of you watching can agree.Cash is on its way out, so choose your poison.

I'm glad these 2 got together and had a discussion, even if it was a little tense.

First time seeing Roger speak. Couldn’t finish watching it. What an utterly dismissive and disrespectful individual.

Ver shows why B-Cash ain't decentralized

To understand the problem with BCH all you need to do is watch this video. Ver as the face and spokesman of BCH will continue to stifle any chance of success.

Moral of the story bcash is an altcoin that’s it go do your business

Just cuz Roger is saying Bitcoin cash is Bitcoin doesn't mean everyone is thinking the same way, hell no. The community has spoken and Bitcoin is Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash is an altcoin and even Jihan said it. Bitcoin

It's hard to watch someone try to debate like a fourth grader. If I talk over you I win the argument. I don't disagree with everything Ver says, but he doesn't seem to know how to talk things out in a actual two way conversation.

time to buy litecoin

If everybody started calling Blue-green Does that mean Blue is now green? Or just a bunch of stupid freakin people. LOL

Your argument is "laughable" - "pick up a dictionary" - "you just dig yourself in a deeper hole" - he keep being so condescending towards Charlie Lee (that is just within 5 mins in the video). He is so rude and arrogant! He is talking like he is so clever, smart and the best guy in the world.... but he is only obnoxius when he try to show that side...

I must say I prefer Charlie's outlook. He has a bachelor and masters in CS. Roger is out of his depth in regards of talking about the technical aspects of bitcoin. Bitcoin is not bitcoin Cash

can Ver stop reading all his 'thoughts' from cellphone ?

A debate that ended with laughter and a handshake. That's how it should be.

i found the book advice "Economics in One Lesson" valuable, thanks

Great debate! Finally one without any screaming or drama. Sadly I don't think bitcoin saw the debate or cares :-)

Roger literally thinks Satoshi is god and the whitepaper is the word of god aka the bible.

Major props to Charlie for debating. Both made good points. I just wish Roger would interrupt a little less and next time remove the guy laughing in the background. Left a bad taste in my mouth.

It feels like Miyagi san trying to speak intelligently with someone from the Cobra Kai

OMG I came here for the debate and instead Roger is interupting every minute, its really hard to listen to this. This is not real debate. (I am not anti BTC Cash)

The moment Roger starts feeling like he's losing in a particular part of an argument he changes the topic to 'intrinsic value' over and over. How can it be so obvious to everyone but him?? Not to mention the fact that his argument on intrinsic value is pure semantics on the word intrinsic.

Roger is just jealous because hes not the real Sotoshi.

I honestly can't believe they posted this video. Roger absolutely humiliated himself..

Charlie Lee did what Jimmy Song could not- Destroyed Roger Ver. He should start yelling louder that Bcash is the real Bitcoin.

its soo hard to argue roger ver.. if he has an idea you HAVE to say hes right otherwise he will cut you and try to make you say thing until you do... thats not a way to debate.. he hardly let charlie finish an argument... and when he start something tho dont try to stop him... it not that i dont like bitcoin cash, but roger ver make it hard to love his view, he want it soo bad to push it down your throat.. not the way i like it...

I now see why people hate Roger Ver. For one, he redefines words to try to win small arguments. For example he claims everything has an intrinsic value of zero. Economics and finance disagree with that statement, and then he calls himself an economist. He is a demigod because of his following but his logic is flawed. Get over the white paper. I don't want the Bitcoin of 2008, I want the Bitcoin of 2040. The technology needs to be free to evolve.

Roger Ver is a very agressive dude,, dont like him...

If you’re making one transaction per week, use Bitcoin. For everything else, use Bitcoin Cash.

Bitcoin Cash is Bitcoin, if people just decided to cal Bitconnect Bitcoin, they would be wrong, just like people who call BTC Bitcoin are wrong

Ver is trying to lecture not debate!! Lol

Roger is trying to make his self more important than the agenda of crypto. He is no different than those greedy hedge fund managers. Charlie, Thanks for all you do

Roger Ver's only strength is that he's extremely articulate. I'd like to give credit to the guy. That said, Charlie Lee, imo, was able to clarify and give a proper rebuttal to each of ver's questions from a technical perspective. God, I wish Charlie had a degree in marketing.

Roger Ver's points were pretty much spot on. Charlie made a good point with the SHA256 breaking which Roger corrected his position. Even though the interruptions were unpleasant, they are important to having discussions/debates to clarify points and usages of words to move forward. But all in all some very good points coming from Roger.

A billion people believing a lie does not make it truth. No amount of people believing a lie will ever achieve this.

Charlie seems pretty confident and Roger nervous, rude and aggressive... 🤔

It is interesting how off putting Roger's tone is. It is the essence of an ego driven communication: Dogmatic - always referring back to bitcoin.org content from many years back, even when things have evolved. Arguing from some kind of ab-initio point that he defined. Combative and defensive when there is no need to. Seeking some kind of "victory" or "I-told-you-so" attitude that NOBODY else cares about. Charlie is an excellent example of how to interact with such a person. Be calm polite and be clear and principled.

In the court of public opinion BTC is bitcoin. Roger can be right all day about all his points but at the end of the day he can't sway public opinion. Being correct is intrinsically worthless.

Charlie is a hypocrite. Roger destroyed this dude

Charlie says "Things get upgraded over time" on Bitcoin, but yet they don't upgrade the MB size lol

So if I fork bitcoin cash and call it bitcoin cash would you be ok with that?

Roger Ver, there is no such thing as a single thought on intrinsic value. Different people have different views on it so Charlie is right here also. Bcash is not Bitcoin. BTC is Bitcoin. Stop calling it Bitcoin core. There is nothing called bitcoin core

Fees on Bitcoin chain halves every four years, that's the truth !!! The thing is that Roger Ver is considering Dollars !!! Not Bitcoin !!!

Increase block size means whoever's can produce the biggest blocks controls the system. Correct?

Low fees are important for everyday use adoption. BTC transactions cost me $2.00 while BCH transactions cost $0.01 so BCH is the better bitcoin. Lightning mobile hosted wallets do not hold private keys. BCH wallets do hold your private keys. Remember, not your private keys; not your bitcoin. Based on the merits of the facts presented; Bitcoin Cash is a better Bitcoin.

On behalf of the BCH community, I apologize for -Ed-. Also, I agree that Roger was unnecessarily aggressive on this interview.

Alright here is the core of the debate: Both Charlie and Roger agree low transaction fees are good, but they differ on how to achieve that. Roger wants to lower fees by increasing the block size, but Charlie believes larger blocks eventually cause centralization and censorship. Charlie wants to lower fees via off-chain 2nd layer (eg lightning), but Roger believes 2nd layer causes centralization and censorship. So both want A (censorship resistance) and B (low fees), but each believes the other’s method for getting to B compromises A. What they should do is acknowledge that A is their common goal, and then get into quantitative calculations to evaluate which method for B is better. This will not be settled with qualitative hand wavy arguments IMO, and constantly rehashing it wastes everybody’s time.

Charlie won this debate aside from the economic stand point

The market decides which one is the real

bcash is a scam

Charlie lee makes me feel so confident in litecoin.. I'm all in.. clearly the best coin

Roger Ver needs to have more composure. His stance is that he must win. That stance is registered as a lack of security. Insecurity makes a speaker difficult to agree with. This stance Roger need to work on. If he is the spoke person for bitcoin cash he needs to get someone who know how to do PR properly.

Roger is a fkn hero.

I watched this video, because I honesty wanted to educate myself about BCH. I think that Roger's style of debating is a really poor advertisement for his cause. His argument about Satoshi's original vision reminds me of christian cults trying to tell you what the first century christianity was intended to be, instead of admitting that societies chance. And I used to be one of those people.

roger got him though on many points and was more willing to concede to charlie's points. charlie was more embarrassed and unwilling to admit his mistakes.

Roger Ver, alone with his rightness.

Imagine Charlie actually IS Satoshi Nakamoto!

Made it 10 minutes and then couldn't take Roger's rude interruptions. Such a scam artist.

I love watching these debates

Lee made a good point which is this. We could minimally increase the block size without impacting node decentralization. I think if we gave the network 2 years to prepare for a 4x upgrade it would lower the cost of creating a lightning channel. If you had 2 years to prepare for that upgrade you don’t think you would be excited to upgrade your node? You would.

Q: What is Bitcoin? A: What people call Bitcoin is Bitcoin. Q: Do you agree that Bitcoin is peer to peer electronic cash system? A: Everything changes. Bitcoin is Bitcoin. BTC maximalists are low I.Q., ignorant, greedy or just tribalistic. "We are Satoshi. Bitcoin is Bitcoin."

I like roger, but he was a bit too aggressive in this one. lee had some good points he should have been allowed to elaborate on a bit more instead of being stopped all the time.

Ver's definition(list) of what makes bitcoin bitcoin sound exactly like litecoin. Is litcoin the real bitcoin?

LOL 12:15 he already knew he was going to interrupt him

Roger, you would have been an awesome lawyer. Would love to see Roger bebate Michael Saylor. Would be the showdown of the century. Two brilliant minds hashing it out. Only one question. Is Bitcoin SV even better than BCH? Forever grateful for Bitcoin Cash and all your contributions. Thanks so much!

When is Roger going to wear the t-shirt?

If roger ver was no longer an obnoxious bully, then does roger ver cease to exist?

roger needs to stay on his message and keep asking how many merchants are using btc? that's his strongest point and something newcomers to crypto will care about vs all the other noise. low fees, speed, and utility will win.

Thank you Roger!!

Holy shit Roger Ver is the most annoying person on the planet. Charlie Lee is amazingly patient. Well done Charlie.

Roger, please resist the urge to interrupt, no matter how dumb what your opponent is saying is