They sound as close as two old synths can, even with the same electronics. Glad you did this! I love my MKS-50. Bought it new in the 80s, of course! A certain package will be headed your way later this week!
Very close. This MKS sounds a little better - Alpha sounds a tad muffled. Envelopes not as sharp in the Alpha. But, part of the difference might be due to different age (capacitor degradation). So unless you recap both you can not conclude anything - as the difference could be the other way around with different units. Nevertheles: I always had the feeling that the MKS sounded slightly better, but who knows really...
They are the same synth pretty much patchwise/behaviorwise except for the analog signal being warmer on the alpha which I like a little more. Its more an audiophile difference vs that of a sound design one.
The electronics in the analog pots alone can make a difference in sound. I think its those things which are causing the difference and not the core synth electronics.
The Alpha Juno 2 was my first synth, loved it, and really nice to hear it again - that's a lot of sonic variety for a pretty simple 1-DCO synth! (I know, multiple waveforms, but there's only 1 frequency)
Well within margin or error and electronic tolerances. So yeah these sound identical 👍🏻 It's a matter of "what form factor do you want" with these two 👍🏻
To me there were no differences, pretty sure we can agree that besides the extra chord memory etc, having either of these is just a matter of taste... some want to save space and go for the rack version, others want the keyboard. When we get to the MKS-30 vs JX-3P, there will be a different tale to tell. ;)
I felt same when I tested Alpha Juno 1 and 2. (ultimately sold my Juno 2 due space and portability) I know there is huge difference within dynamics and AT, but I mainly use it thru master keyboard or daw, so im ok with it. :)
I've had his patch set on my Alpha Juno 2 for a while now and I just now realized that the EK on the patch names stands for "Espen Kraft". How'd I miss that? XD
Yup, they sound the same. That's good, because I don't need to own both the synths. 1U rack space is all that's needed. Thank you for investigating the long time question, in a convincing way !
Both sound great! Really no big difference to write home about, at all. The thing we forget is that, because these are both analog synths (digitally controlled), every analog synth will sound slightly different. That's just the nature of analog. Plus these synths are now, what, 35 years old? They age, they change. Now I will say that these digitally controlled analog synths are very consistent and don't vary much at all from synth to synth. On an voltage controlled analog synth, that's a whole other story. Put two minimoog's together in one room, hook them up and they'll have a slight difference in the sound. Again, nature of analog. My point being, both of these will do the same job, equally well. Just depends if you want a keyboard or a rack version :).
To my ear, the Alpha Juno sounds ever so slightly brighter (except, curiously, on the Juno patch you demoed). But, the MKS-50 seemed to have slightly better reinforced low-mids. As others have pointed out, given the age of the synths, and their (potentially wildly) different lives, this is well within error -- I'd be comfortable calling it "the same." Certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference without your rigorous A/B comparison. Thanks for that!
When I serviced my Alpha June 2 it had MKS50 on the motherboard it is dated 1986 wish I could repair the Velocity touch. It works in some areas but have to press hard to get it to respond.
I could hear some small differences in two patches, especially the first one, but nothing that matters. Electronic component tolerances and derating due to age could play a part.
In the JUNO 6 EK patch the Alpha seems richer to my ear (the MKS sounded a touch thin), might have been expectation bias because as an MKS owner I was clearly rooting for the rack unit. Disparity leveled out quite a bit from there though.
Btw, owned a MKS-50 and replaced it by Alpha Juno-2... The MKS-50 was hard to programe... honestly a pain in the b.... With the Alpha Juno everything is easier and I love the feel of the keyboard .... Thanks for you inspirational work, Espen !
Yeah the keyboard feels good, this is important. Conversely I don't rate the "hard" feel of a DX7, despite its appeal to cheesy electric piano balladeers but I digress
Thanks for the comparison Espen, they sound identical to me. As much as I like the compactness of the module I just wish Roland had put the capability for patch storage via cartridge or the MKS....never understood that stupid omission ( on the mks70. & 80 they included it!). If it wasn’t for that I’d probably have the module instead of the Alpha 2 keyboard.
Just a little bit. I have both the AJ2 & the MKS50. It's very hard to tell the difference. But I'm more of a techno guy and that's why I have them. I started DJing in clubs in 1982 and got burned out on the the 80's "sound" to the point where I didn't enjoy it at all by '95. I've started to enjoy it a little more now but just a little. Mostly nostalgia though. My 303s all sound different LOL and I love them all.
They sound so damn close, you would never tell a difference in a blind test, if you weren't watching the meters, to see which was actually playing. I think considering the age of both, any difference could be attributed to that, as well.
My first real synthesizer was a Roland Alpha Juno 1, I think it's still in the possession of an old friend with whom we made a lot of music back in the '80s... Thanks for the video!
I really like how you had the switch between both live as you were playing. That was a really good way to present these synths! I really like that patch at 4:05 and the patch at 6:00 reminds me of the patch called "popcorn" on Yamaha keyboards. I think they sound the same. I think the only difference is the velocity as you were playing as it was switching between the two. Awesome video as always :)
Thanks Nathan! I felt it was a good way to show any differences since they are indeed pretty much the same sounds anyways. Only the velocity when makes them sound different imo. ;.-)
Same engines. The output on Juno is a bit more saturated, thus it feels a bit fuller. But thats a full on keyboard synth, and the “rack version”, that is the point right. Love those comparisons
Maybe a mindfuck but some moments I get the feeling the Alpha has slightly more punch at the bottom end. But higher sounds sound the same. But love my MKS any way :) Thanks for this
MKS-50 to me sounded somewhat brighter and with a bit more punch, while the Alpha Juno sounded like the highs were somewhat rolled off. It's VERY subtle and at first I didn't hear a different at all, until I was watching the meters on which is which, only then was I able to actually notice a difference. Some sounds were far less obvious than others in the differences I heard, though. BTW, I had NO IDEA the MKS-50 was a rack version of the Alpha Juno's! Amazing how after 25 years of playing keyboards and knowing most of the makes and models, you still learn things!
Patch base makes a great controller for the MKS-50 - you use your iPad to access all parameters and build sounds. I have their DX7 programmer and it literally opened up new worlds of possibilities. Hoping they make an MKS-70 version soon.
Maybe just a slight difference in the lower registers for some sounds. For example S-BASS1 EK ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-J71JKsRQKKk.html Otherwise they sound identical.
Juno 2 edges in terms of expression. Dynamics and aftertouch can do a lot magic. But sound is the same, technically only difference happens due tolerances in analog components (VCF/VCA and their respective resistors and caps).
Thanks for the comparison Espen. I have an HS-80 and snapped up an MKS 50 yesterday on Ebay. They sound so close, I can let the HS 80 go as I'm running out of studio space.
To my ears, the MKS module and the Alva Juno keyboard synthesizer are a lot closer sounding alike in the sound engine itself than the sets of neighboring models that are consecutive to them. I’ve owned all three of the JX8p, JX-10 and MKS-70, and I know firsthand that a different chorus generator was used in the 8P than in the 10 and the 70. Only a few days in advance of this comment, I watched the demonstration that Skarsky Carr did of the JX-3p and MKS-30; they had the same difference. That difference isn’t present between these two modules.
I have played the Alpha 1 regularly since 1986, but the first patch you played was just a little better string pad than I have built thus far. May be the reverb kind of pulling it all together.
Im trying to program my Alpha Juno 1 with my Super Jx-10 and MSQ-700. I just plugged in the EV-5 to the JX to see how I can program midi volume. Weird thing but it sends midi volume to the AJ but it doesn't do volume all the way off on the AJ, it does it on the JX but not the AJ? I don't know how to fix it. The manual says midi volume on/off. 😁
I have an MKS50 but I always found it fussy to program because of the patch/voice thing… I really am a basic dude… my question is can you operate the MKS50 in Alpha Juno mode as in just tweak the sound without all the layering and whatever…?
A patch is rally just the TONE, which is the same as what you have on the Alpha, and the performance parameters for that tone. Check out page 17 in the manual.
They sound the same. Does the “detune” setting on the MKS-50 detune the oscillators from one another? And if you put it in mono mode, can you then have 6 detuned voices playing the same note?
I bought my MKS-50 in the early 00's and I guess I was lucky enough to find it for about 150€ at the time.. I'll never get rid of it 😎 I'm just looking for a decent controller, and I'm doubting between the MPG-50 from Retroactiv, or the DT-300 from Dtronics.. have you ever compared those two..?
As others said, I'm pretty sure they sound as close as can be two different synths. There is a very slight difference on some sounds (pads), but I'm pretty confident that two different junos or two different MKS would sound very slightly differently too. It would be interesting to check if they were made the same year, and with exactly the same components (particularly the analog preamp, are the condensers from the same brand? that could be enough to explain the difference).
The MKS-50 is gone now, but I too believe that they sound pretty much the same and that any differences must be down to components at the output stages, or like you say, some different components due to time between the manufacturing.
Once you have said that Alpha Juno is the best analog Roland for your taste, I get more and more close to your opinion as I listen to other models. BTW these two in the video sound idenical to my ears.
Got two mks 50 and recently put in new memorybatteries for another thirtyfive years of use. Love them to bits. Thanks for the video. I couldn't tell the mks from the juno without looking at the onscreen meters 🙂
No you can't. My assertation was 'You can't really compare two old analog synths and expect them to sound exactly the same' to which you conceded that they would sound slightly different. So there you go, I didn't suggest anything other than sonic difference. If you compare two analog devices, especially old uncalibrated ones, then two identical models will necessarily sound different.
They sound identical. And the magic of analog synths is that even with such a terrible, possibly the worst filter ever, they still sound warm and full.
The sound pretty much the same, the differences would be more because they are different analog machines that are old so there is variance. I would imagine you'd hear the same level of differences between 2 Juno 2's.
@@dannydaniel1234 Who cares if it's 100% analog or not? The 80s synthpop/pop sound relies more on digital synths than analogs btw. In fact, it relies more on samplers than anything. Samplers with analog filters often. ;-)
@@dannydaniel1234 The Alpha Juno is an analog synth. DCOs or VCOs doesn't matter. No such thing as 60% analog or 79.6% analog. This is also 100% true. ;-)
There is a slight difference in the sound, but I think that might just be the tollerance of the caps and resistors in the output electronics. Can't say one is better than the other. No 2 identical instruments will be exactly the same, but unless they use different version of the sound chips where one is an "enhanced version" Digital instruments generally have very low variance, that you won't be able to tell if its the one or the other you hear, if you just hear that one and even this comparison, i think what I noticed the most was one seemed to have a slight level boost in the left channel
There is quite a lot of components in them, as all analog synths from that era has and they're surprisingly heavy, so I'm sure there's some aging components playing some tricks with us. ;-)
I designed a MIDI-based editor for the MKS-50 using Hybrid Arts tools on the Atari. I brought it to Hybrid Arts to give it to them. But I was one week too late. Somebody else scooped me. Oh well, it was fun designing and going thru all the System Exclusive codes. I actually found an error in the manual and contacted Roland. MKS-50 replaced my Juno-106 which I sold when I bought the D-50. But the best analog synth was the Oberheim Matrix1000. Then I got married and sold all my music gear in 1996 in Austin TX. Females take a LOT of time and attention.
My woman was told early on that she'd always have to compete with my passion for music and that I'd never give up neither that nor my gear. She's still here. Don't sell yourself short to any woman. ;-)
Hi Espen, do you have an idea why the MKS50 sells for a higher price? I can remember mine had a chord setting (chord memory Nr 15 - manual p.40) where it did play unison. Now be aware that this "juno" unison has a phase cancelling issue, it sound a bit odd. Thinking of getting one back with a programmer.
I think it depends if it sells for a higher price. I've seen it go both ways. I don't use "unison" mode on either machine really, but can't say I noticed the Alpha sounding "phasy". Maybe it's a difference between units.
Good suggestion, but I have done that already. I go through all that in my main Roland Alpha Video. All the patches in my patch bank was made on the synth itself, no controller. I usually dont use controllers at all, except when I show them in a video.
Thank you for another interesting video Espen! I do...think...that I hear a subtle difference now and then, but it's got more to do with the attack rather than the sound itself. Ohh on a completely different note, it just struck me...Is the girl figure behind you Miku from Gotoubun? ;) ...If so then I can't believe I didn't get it it all this time, considering how often she's been featured (I know, this is when I start to sound creepy...so I'll just stop writing...) :p
@@EspenKraft Haha wow, nice! :D Espen my man, you have a fascinating scope of interest! I have so many more questions now, but will save them for another day. ;)
Sound the same to me...with the MKS-50 maybe needing a 5% bump in volume if you look at the meters at times...but I imagine that reacting to velocities might vary between these...but from what I can tell they sound exactly the same and that's spectacular. This is a great video man....It's a keeper IMO...BTW, it's cool that the card memory in the MKS-50 is pretty much built in since it has twice the patch memory the AJ/AJ2 have(or rather instead of having hard rom, all 128 patches are ram)....Hope you kept this beautiful rack synth, so much power in 1 rack space...really special unit IMO!
@@EspenKraft Thank you for the awesome content! I need to snag one of those programmers for sure...your demo video of it is spectacular....I get along with the ipg800 pretty good but it's dedicated to the super jx.....Again, thanks for the awesome video!
@@MrCucumber416 D-50 was first with DIGITAL REVERB. Chorus and delay (analog and maybe digital) was available previously, as was spring reverb in at least one unusual "synth" I'm aware of.
Very close, although the mks sounds a tiny bit brighter, but it is only evident in a few patches. That might be because the chips are identical, but the boards has different layouts, but there could be differences between two alphas compared to each other. Great video!
