The part about the younger generation not caring as much about technical innovation really struck with me. As a barely turned adult myself, the perspective is much more close to home. It's not just watches, but all manner of high end luxury goods that have taken a differing stance when marketing to a younger audience. Anything that can be flashed on a screen and be marketed by online personalities have potential to blow up and start trends for us. However, I do believe it's partly the fault of more prestigious, elitist brands that left this massive divide in attitudes. High end artisan watchmaking just isn't shown to us at all. Their target audience is the wealthy and fascinated people of previous generations and they make close to zero effort to display their brilliance to the rest of us. Nonetheless I'm somehow a young horology enthusiast and there's likely more people who are the same; but if I asked any of my friends or classmates, I'm sure the only name they'd know from luxury watches is Rolex, due to this unique and rapidly adapting marketing strategy. It's a shame but it seems the newfound ignorance is a two-way play between rigid brands and youths who can't be asked to bother about things that obviously make no effort to cater to or care about them. The one major break in the trend for me was the moonswatch release. Even with all the controversy, they found a way for young people like myself to get fascinated in and obtain even a shadow of something we can only view from afar. I see watch collectors bashing it a lot but to those who are yet to establish themselves and those to whom the luxury watch industry have been gatekeeping their products, it's been the best thing. Apologies for the lengthy paragraph 😅
hi, Very interesting perspective! I’m 26 years old myself so would definitely relate with you, perhaps brands need to do more collabs like the moonswatch to raise awareness of their brands and history more to engage with the younger generation on a level more than just wanting what influencers /celebs have got just because they wear it. Making the hobby more cool is a tough job to do in an industry that is quite closed
agreed! Tudor just need to work on a few reliability issues and servicing problems we have heard they have had with clients waiting months for watches back but they’re going very strong
In the list of Rolex innovation, I would add the 72 hour calibre now on its sports steel models like the Submariner. On the design side, little to no innovation at all. Rolex introduced the 1908 to replace the Cellini, but the dial was not that spectacular. Rolex owns 30% of the luxury watch market and nobody comes close. However, just because Rolex raises its prices continually, does not put it in the Patek class of craftsmanship nor appeal. I do not hate on Rolex, nor do I suffer from FOMO neither!
I wouldn't worry about lack of innovation. They never have, in the past. Rolex bought the patent for their screw down crown, they didn't invent it. They didn't make the first waterproof wrist watch, an English company advertised it ten years before. It was called the "Submarine" but they didn't trademark the name. An English company invented the first automatic wrist watch three years before Rolex. If you note the language, Rolex claim to be the first to invent and patent an automatic watch. The English company didn't patent it, Rolex did but everyone reads it as Rolex invented the automatic watch. Same with the DateJust, the Girard Perregaux Mimo had a date window three years before Rolex. Again, read the wording, Rolex were first to design an automatic watch with a date window. The GP watch, wasn't automatic. So don't worry, Rolex and innovation is an oxymoron. But their marketing... top top class.
I have the non-spectre version of the seamaster master co-axial on the grey-black nato strap. I bought it on sale at an AD 20 percent off, after i wasn't gonna wait for a no date submariner. I didn't expect to like it so much, and make me not want the sub anymore.
I own a new 36 Datejust (jubilee blue dial) and a new Sub date. Both from AD. Rolex as a product is A+ Rolex’s brand, reputation and customer service is F- This is not a sustainable business model.
I think your point is very well made, but Rolex are still a mass producer when compared with VC, AP or Patek. And they're increasing production, rather than restricting it. The price increases are just them capitalising on the insane levels of enthusiasm for the brand right now - the price will go up to whatever the market can bear, which is quite a bit, apparently. Hard to know where it ends, but there is a proper recession coming. 3M/10Y treasury yield is very negative and at some point gravity will have to assert itself.
thanks and I agree that it is hard to know where it will end but i do believe they will continue with the price increases and it will simply price many current clients out of reach
Luxury can be about attainability (as well as quality, branding, design, price etc) and Rolex’s way to try and push their brand to the levels of the Holy Trinity is via attainability. You have the money, still can’t have it, you want that model, still can’t have it. Selectivity is how they’re (via their AD’s) driving this (which I think is a bad and unfair way of doing things) and as a manufacturer of c.1m watches per year, they’re not really that scarce!!! Great vid as always Vinny 😎
Great topic . In my view , luxury watch is not about innovation but is about value retention. Today only one brand stands out today . Rolex doesn’t innovate as long as consumers keeps on buying them
Agreed, apart from the intricate enamelling by the artisans which is beautiful, the design itself is an insult to the Day Date ‘presidential’ reputation and provenance
It feels as though the steel sports watch market that Rolex have dominated is being handed down to Tudor. Presumably so Rolex can push upwards with precious metal watches
@@sts6761 Agreed, interesting angle, but I'd be surprised if Rolex did stop steel, let's just take Subs for example, at about 37% profit margin for the AD, they are selling to the ADs at about £4.6k to £5.2k no date to date ex vat, I understand they make about 100k Subs pa, so say 30% non date, 70% date because again I hear they make more no dates than dates, this is somewhere around £500m of sales pa just in Subs... I don't see them walking away from this. Plus I've seen Tudors new facilities in Le Locle, they are nice, but not big, not Rolex big, not even as big as Zenith over the road, there's just not the capacity to push through all the stainless steel professional models that Rolex shifts each year plus Tudor output, even using the old Tudor facilities that Rolex wants back. I think Rolex will carry on with steel for a higher price and you won't see much precious metals in Tudor.
I really hope nobody out there is thinking titanium case is an innovation given that Citizen was selling titanium watches at Macy's in the 1990s (and they were already doing so in the 1970s)
@Watch Investor Vinny don't forget the 1980 IWC Titan too. Personally I think titanium is a bad watch material because of how it wears anytime a scratch goes through the oxide layer.
Rolex should have been kicked out of W&W for not being a watch company. They’re a toy company. All they make are non-functional display models to send to AD’s to sit in pretty plexiglass boxes. There’s already a term for that, it’s called models, and the Japanese have a lock on that market with model toy anime and manga characters. Models ranging from anatomically correct big titty anime girls with removable outfits to mecha Gundam models costing hundreds to thousands of dollars all designed to sit in pretty glass display cases.
Do you recommend the CIGA design gliding edition? I am interested but undecided because it is almost $2k for a brand that I don’t know much about. But I like the innovation.
It’s an awesome piece in terms of a flagship watch in your collection to wear for a dinner party to get people talking. It sits right up there on that intriguing level as an MB&F or a Jacob&Co, so if buying for that purpose it’s a steal at 2k, but not a daily wearer
Agree with what you say about it all being for show and not about the technical im guilty of it a bit myself but i cant lie my skydweller, when i realised what it did blew me away felt like james bond the first time i set it properly 😂😂
No doubt about it the Skydweller is a marvel of innovation for more than one reason, it’s a just a pitty they’re not pumping out that line of innovative designs every few years rather than decades
True true think the most inventive thing they did was the sprite 🤣🤣 in recent years, nothing groundbreaking i agree, like you say though from there point of view there probably thinking whats the point when people just buy um for show anyway, is ashame its that way, they need too do a showcase piece like that JLC Hybrus Mechanica
I tend to agree that Rolex are pushing the "plebs" towards Tudor as they try to transition Rolex upwards, but can they sell the numbers that Rolex do at Holy Trinity prices? Have you as a dealer considered what this will mean for your business? I've no idea what the average "sold" price of a Rolex is on the secondary market but if it were to double that must affect the number of people willing to pay. I've been fortunate with Rolex AD purchases in the past but if they cut me out now I can't really complain. Plenty of nice watches out there.
Exactly! At some point the informed buying public switches to other brands that are more affordable and available. Also, if the delta between Rolex and Patek narrows, then I buy the brand that has the best craftlanship.
Yes this is a good point, i’d say demand for pieces over £25000 falls dramatically and we did see at the peak for pieces that went above that range many buyers were just priced out of the game and this is a concern, the market for 10-20k pieces is always more ‘attainable’ thus is the sweet spot really, beyond that is another level up for sure, and that’s what i believe Rolex want
@@vinnyfrancis The potential game changer is the CPO program. If CPO watches are priced near or below new watches and the supply is plentiful, collectors will flock to the ADs to get the watch they want. Time will tell. The program is rolling out in the US this summer/fall.
@@vinnyfrancis Right now Rolex seems to be selling all the watches they can make. I am sure they have noticed some will pay appreciably above their retail price for one. If they increase the prices can they still sell all the watches they can make? Back in the mid 80s through the 90s it seems that at least locally Submariners sold for less once they left an Authorized Dealer. I wonder was that unique to just the Submariners and that time period or is there a longer history of various Rolex selling for less at gray market dealers? Now that is not the case with at least some of them. Can that continue long term? If Rolex makes the same number of watches next year will they all sell at 50% more or double?
we already have the programme here in the Uk and their prices are beyond comical. I cannot see CPO prices ever becoming competitive because they are so far and away from realistic that they will not come down. At then levels i can’t see any client who has a little bit of knowledge of the market being stupid enough to buy them so i actually think CPO will be a flop
Vinny fully agree the innovation from Rolex has long gone. When your dramatic drum roll is a new plastic bezel colour insert you have given up. What’s your latest thoughts on CHNR as a Flip or Pass? Last time it was marginal but seems to be still dropping.
Hey Tom hope you’re well! Yes very true and funnily enough just writing the script for the next vid which will be a flip or pass for the hype watches including the CHNR, we have that down at a £600 profit so not really worth the effort!
@@vinnyfrancis BTW loving the yellow dial OP41 great watch and mint condition as described. Amazed no one has grabbed the coral dial also a lovely watch.
The pharmaceutical industry have been using small companies for their innovations. The watch companies have started to use marketing over innovation but at slower pace than other industries. Example Omega, Zenith, Grand Seiko, and JLC are committed to advancing their brand. Rolex is more marketing less innovation.
Yes very true, JLC seems to invent something ground breaking almost every year, look at a christopher ward too with the Bel Canto and then there’s Omegas new movement that’s accurate to 0-+2 secs a day, Rolex are instead making jigsaw dials😂
Good to see you back Vinny. For a minute thought we'd never see you again after Watches & Wonders rant. 😂 Great intro, perfect delivery as always. I'll be googleing Ciga
hmmm i’ve seen that watch and it’s a little nasty compared to the CIGA, this piece has 24k gold gilding on the dial and is full ceramic so a better quality level all round
Everything became rose gold, platinum or two tone. Not so many models available in stainless steel anymore. Also it is worth mentioning that they increase prices 3 times in one year. As you said, now it is time to buy something.
this is the style of our videos, i like it and so do others, its an intro designed to be different and engage and our youtube statistics have proven to us since we started the intros that more viewers are still watching beyond 30 seconds than before. I trust the numbers. thanks
fair point yes, that’s why i think it’s all purposeful, making us believe they are totally separate brands so we turn to Tudor when Rolex turns us off.
