The arrangement of players taking those penalties was absolutely disgusting, politics got priority over an England victory and that's why the England team will never win nothing ever again? Southgate threw it away,, proof of that was choosing a youngster who'd never taken a penalty in his life, mind you it's not like it was a huge game, I'm still disgusted by that result but the entire country never even had the guts to criticise all they could say was "wernt they unlucky?" Did you also hear how sad and sorry the 3 degrees were? I mean Stewart Peace was that down after 1990 he couldn't even give a urine sample for a drug test? But once again we lose a euro final at home! But nevermind the woman took time out from their shopping and cooking to win what looks like toy you'd get with an Hornblower action man.
It seems he's still in some state of denial. That's what's damaging to how he comes off in this documentary. "Apparently I made the alleged remark." and "I didn't swear." are comments that just indicate he still hasn't fully accepted and owned exactly what he said.
@@socco69 One they didn't do which I am surprised they didn't was play what he said back to Ron. On the one hand he says he didn't remember saying it. Then on the other he says he didn't swear or alleged it happened.
He comes off terribly in this documentary it's like he's justifying being racist by making more racist comments and just keeps digging and digging so to speak.
I think Frank Skinner hits the nail on the head when he says "you can debate is Ron Atkinson racist but what he said about Marcel Desailly WAS racist". Attributing racism to words and actions is more constructive than arguing whether people are or aren't.
@@nickm8874 come down se London some time you might change your tune 🙄 And I do understand them words believe me You wouldn't last a year in se London i wonder why hypocrite!
“This is where I was when I uttered that aberration.” Oh that was the only time I’ve ever said that in my life. I don’t even remember saying it. Doesn’t seem like he does
I just wasn’t prepared for the whole American radio bit. Honestly what were they thinking? Absolute comedy gold He came back more angry and more indignant hahaha
"This is a museum of racist memorobilia, if Ron is tired of hearing the N word, this is probably the last place he should be" I was dying when I heard that one 😂
Ron's defence seems to be based solely on that he brought through "the three degrees" at WBA thus helping to breakdown racial barriers in sports, and that he was the only manager doing it. The trouble is that it's not really true: Ron didn't sign Regis or Cunningham for Albion, they were already there, though he did sign Batson (who was with him at Cambridge) and later Remi Moses. Ron saw a great marketing opportunity to put his club in the public eye with the three degrees nickname and the legend of Ron being a racial pioneer was born. As for other clubs in the late 70s: Man City had Roger Palmer, Dave Bennett, Gary Bennett and Alex Williams; Port Vale had Neville and Mark Chamberlain, later Mark Bright; Chris Hughton then Garth Crookes at Spurs, Luther Blisset and John Barnes at Watford, Ricky Hill and Brian Stein at Luton, George Berry and Bob Hazel at Wolves, so Ron was far from the only one.
As a black man I must say that I myself have used racial slurs, insults and jokes to other races, including myself. It’s pretty hypocritical that people are condemning others for using “racial slurs” when we’ve all done and said it. I’d be a massive hypocrite had I slated Atkinson for this
Priince Brvce_LUHG_ well done mate he never meant it he’s from a older time I don’t think what he sayed was rite it’s was rotten but he’s sayed his sorry and still getting slaughtered in 2020
Dnomyar Akunawik I somewhat agree. However, if your apology is sincere, then I feel there’s no need to hold it against them for the rest of their lives.
I'm black and my brother used to play for Aston Villa, I met Big Ron one evening at Villa Park with my dad & Mr Atkinson couldn't have been more warm, kind, friendly & accommodating if he tried. As I've gotten older and have had a lot of experiences in my life with regards to colour I've learnt not to throw Racism at every incident involving stupidity & race and believe me there are a lot of stupid people out there. I tend to judge people on their intent and not what comes out of their mouths, we all say a lot of stupid shit, I called someone a stupid faggot the other day cuz they broke a string on my guitar not thinking for a moment that I have gay friends & how would they feel if they heard me say that. What made me really mad with big Ron was his comments afterwards when he said I can't be racist I've signed black players & I have many black friends, note to white people never say this to a black person because even the white slave owner had black slaves working in his house. If I could have given him any advice at the time it would have been ' say sorry, shut the fuck up & move on.
You fat stinking hypocrite. It's concerning to you when you think if you were do it but if Ron sticks to his guns and shows his innocence it's different then. Woke culture in a nutshell. This whole thing has been an entire black comedy.
If this was meant to support the fact he’s not a racist then it has backfired !!! So much self pity and an apology that is only said in the hope his career is resurrected, the bloke interviewing him at the end is absolutely spot on and deserves a pint 🍻
@@melvyns1975 there is a difference between racially discriminating against people in life and work and making an ignorant thick comment maybe to curry favour with the company your in.
Yes it does. Remember people were quick to hang John Terry out to dry when he said the N word which ironically wasn't racist at all, but that's another matter.
@@deanjames5130 Terry isn't. Saying the N word in a passive way doesn't make you racist. Otherwise that makes all black people that say it racist by that logic.
He could have totally sorted everything out by admitting what he said was racist and showing genuine desire to learn from his mistakes... (even if he didn't mean it) - Instead he basically denies any wrong doing and comes across ignorant and un-remorseful ... Missed opportunity Ron.
He was kind of remorseful and apologetic … and then that young American college student told him she calls her mates ****a …. And it set him off! Hahaha
Yes, but the real stupidity was agreeing to make this hatchet job of a "documentary" and believing that those ever so unbiased peadophiles at the PPC would give him a fair hearing. Otherwise, given a few years, most people (like you) would've forgotten all about "Racist Ron" and he would probably have been rehabilitated.
Jack Evans yep it's in the context of the joke not in the opinion facts remain facts this guy assumed he meant Africa and so did you. Where does she actually live?
All he had to say was “I’M not calling him a n****r, I’m saying what people MAY have called him when I started managing....I shouldn’t have said it but it was said without thinking” etc. All this “I’ve apologised enough” makes him sound like he feels he’s the victim now. That isn’t going to wash.
Scruffy Sandra Of course they are, but I’ve NEVER been with any of my black mates and heard them shout anti white stuff at any white person. Oh the other hand, the amount of times I’ve been called names by random white boys/males is quite a lot.. My parents didn’t raise me to dislike people based on race/religion.. I’m proud of that.
BFC have you ever been to America and spoken to blacks over there?? Ever been to South Africa and spoken to blacks over there..?? I have, and guess what??? West Indies not so much.
Scruffy Sandra my parents came to the uk back in the 60’s, as teenagers.. Worked hard all their lives, my mum still does 💪🏿. They taught us from a young age what we would face from white people, and they weren’t wrong. They also told us to rise above it, study/work hard and to TRY and get along with everyone. They also taught us that names don’t hurt, but if someone puts their hands on you...
100% twitter would say so, can’t say the N word if you’re white these days regardless of context, can’t even read of mice and men in English lessons soon, I bet you
Then sometime into the future they'll have to make another documentary exploring whether Chiles' retrospective documentary on whether his Ron Atkinson racism documentary was in itself racist, was in itself racist.
@Bryan McDade 4 politicians who attend cabinet meetings are drawn from ethnic minorities. www.gov.uk/government/ministers I don't remember any black or Asian cabinet ministers in South Africa before 1994. I have also noticed Ben Carson is a member of President Trump's government and he is black. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_Donald_Trump
I am black and I couldn't care less about it I like Ron Atkinson Look at all the recruits at west brim etc He's not discriminated on recruitment I look at the whole picture I Miss his presence and football commentary I really couldn't care less
Am I the only one who feels like this entire documentary is about Mr. Atkinson justifying his own actions? If you're able to say THAT kind of stuff when (you think) nobody is listening/looking.. Your thinking process is that way, which means you ARE racist in my opinion..
I suspect many people under 40 will fully agree with you. Those of us over 45 will tend to think he' was a total twat but he grew up in a time when, undoubtedly, social attitudes were different. Not excusing it, merely explaining it. In time, you will also start to feel as if you can't keep up with the world around you , it happens to everyone eventually.
@@zargonthemagnificent330 totally agree. He is a product of his era, he is totally ignorant and doesn't really get it. I don't detect any malice in Ron Atkinson just ignorance. If somebody 40 years younger than him behaved like him I think I'd view him more harshly.
it is actually enjoyable to see the producers haul him from place to place to try to reeducate him on what he has done. currently at 25 minutes and they have stuck him on a plane to the US to find out about the word he used
I just think its hilarious that this attempt to build back his reputation failed so spectacularly lol. At one stage he kind of equates saying "this is a black day" to saying "Desailly is a lazy thick n****" lmao
@@irieite9666 this wasn't an attempt to build back his reputation, it was an effort to destroy the man, culminating in race-hustler in chief Darcus Howe telling him to scrub Rio Ferdinand's boots.
9 minutes in, loads of contributions from Ron and his mates and yet he still hasnt been confronted with what he said and when he finally is, he doesn't give a 5hit
Not true at all,he has apologised,said sorry,and held his hands up, what he hasn't done is gone over board/keep on apologising for it,that's all, you can tell he isn't racist,he was angry the night he said what he said,and he said something in anger,I've lost my control,and said stupid things in the past, don't hammer Ron,he really doesn't deserve it, Brendan Batson knows the score.
At the time, the worst thing about this it felt to me was that it was said of Marcel D. Arguably one of the most successful hard working footballers of his time. A legend of the game who would be anything but lazy. In fact, Desaily and Deschamps grew up together at Marseille like brothers with a commitment to each other to out work everyone else on their way to the top. Now if he was called a lazy n***** after all he went on to achieve, what hope for us mere mortals. Big Ron at the time was my favorite CL host at the time. He commented on some great games; R Madrid v MAn UTd with peàk Zidane. Then that. Such a let down
Actually Cantona called Deschamps the 'water carrier' and the Chelsea Desailly wasn't the AC Milan or Marseille Desailly,he was lazier and more prone to errors.
Africa needs to diverse with other races and not be so intolerant like unlike North America and Europe. Ron was right about why can black people say that word yet others can't? that is discrimination towards other races and is just as bad.
As a young Newcastle fan I'm ashamed to say I joined in with some of the racist chants in the 70s. My excuse? I was 14 and stupid. I grew up and I look back on those (mercifully short) times with shame. Ron didn't have the excuse of age on his side. He's a racist whatever excuses he makes.
Bullshit, when you were round your own people you were tribal and as tribes do you mocked outsiders, just like ALL tribes and ALL colours do, now you've left the tribe you feel vulnerable and walk around on eggshells scared to offend while others remain tribal towards you, don't try flogging your fear as 'moved on' or enlightened
@@callithowiseeit5806it's not "walking on eggshells" it's realising that there are haIfwits and treacherous to$$ers in your own "tribe", so mocking other "tribes" as if they're any worse than you, is the act of a tragic terminal wally.
@@callithowiseeit5806exactly . Am man united fan. Do I think the " Charlton in box" City fans need a dox..... grow up idiots having a laugh n being idiots
Ron got caught making those comments about black players, something he has been doing all his football life. No Love lost for this man. England has always looked at black players like that he just got caught.
Watching this in 2023 I’m struggling to see how anyone thought this was a good idea. Adrian Chiles says the word about 50 times throughout. It’s a total PR disaster for all concerned. Ron shows no regret other than he thinks he’s apologised too much. This did more harm than good I think
: Ron is not a racist, he was politically incorrect, in politically correct times, that’s all slow to move with the times, Thanks for all you’ve done Ron sorry for how things turned out.
Top bloke old Ron Atkinson legend of the game people will miss him when he's gone , he was a brilliant cup commentator him and Brian Moore champions league games together tv gold good old days , first victim of wokeness
Difficult to feel any sympathy for him, after 24 years of being very well paid for mostly stating the obvious. He got away with a similar offensive comment 14 years earlier, so he had a good ron.
31:10 Gotta love the fact that they used a song by Mos Def, a song which had a message and an actual reason beyond the superficial for using the n word, and played like 5 seconds without context.
The weird thing is nobody ever manages to drive the point home to him. It doesn't help that he tries to learn about racism from a white racist phone-in in Alabama (lol). As far as Big Ron is concerned, he has basically called Desailly the equivalent of a "wanker", and by the end of the programme his position hasn't really shifted. I think the only way to explain it to a white person might be to call their mother a cheap inbred whore or something along those lines - it's that ancestral slur and the baggage of slavery that makes the N-word much more offensive than a swear word. By using that word, you're not just insulting someone, you're bringing up all sorts of implications about their worth as a human being and their status in society. Ron never grasps this. (I don't think he's a bad person, by the way. And I don't think he needs to keep apologising. I'm just surprised he never catches on to what all the black players are saying to him - usually very patiently and politely.)
@Undoctrinated I literally said he doesn't need to keep apologising? What makes you think I have a begging bowl? I work for a successful private company and I'm loaded!
@Undoctrinated no, I just thought he might show some empathy for people who don't like being called the n-word? Like a flicker of understanding at some point. He never does. It was just a comment on a RU-vid video. I have no desire for him to display any kind of emotional breakdown. You seem to be projecting a lot of your own inadequacies and troubles and pet peeves on to my original comment, which didn't cover half the stuff you've talked about.
@@andyw9255 he's a racist to. Dont worry, they try to pretend its political correctness. But they know in their hearts what they mean by it. Ron isn't a bad bloke but he is definitely prejudiced and a racist regardless of his actions, I dont think he has any respect for black people beyond what they can do in service for him, he's just not as stupid as other racists who think theyll only get something of value from a white person. So his record as a manager doesnt deter me from calling him a racist, because Cyril Regis etc. were exceptional players who Ron had the sense to play
This is quite long and detailed, so scroll on if you're not into deep perspective, But I actually don't care too much if Ron Atkinson is a casual racist. Everyone has casually racist, or prejudiced thoughts. Some people just get caught out in public by getting a little ahead of themselves at times. But if I like someone, then I like them. Whether or not they are casually racist, doesn't bother me in the slightest. The casual racist is someone who will say the odd racist remark here and there, but isn't actually defined by it. Black people do this, white people do it, asians do it, everyone does it or has thought about something racist at least once in their lifetime. It's the intent behind it that I look at, as it's not always necessarily driven by hatred. Defining someone's entire personality by one or two offhand remarks, is in itself prejudiced. Which comes back to what I said at the beginning of my comment, everyone has prejudiced thoughts to one degree or another, no matter how virtuously perfect that person believes themselves to be. Humans have so many qualities as people. One or two imperfect or questionable characteristics doesn't define them as people. An example can be found in someone who made a racist joke about a black person one night, but then goes out the next night and happens to defend an innocent black person being verbally attacked, or beaten up by a group of thugs. So to hell with anyone who hones in on one or two characteristics they dislike about someone, I'll decide for myself who I like and who I don't. For me, the realist and most down to earth people out there, often have quite a few offensive qualities. It's the ones who portray themselves as being squeaky clean that you often need to really watch out for. I'll giggle at a causally racist joke or remark, but where I'd draw the line is if someone is a full on neo Nazi type that wants to subjugate different races, or deliberately mistreat someone for being a different colour than them, through malice and hatred. That's the difference in mindset between an offhand remark or an offensive joke. I don't subscribe to politics or activism involved in this. I believe that mindset turns you into an ideological parrot. Fight all you want to make changes, but you'll never change an offensive mindset. The boundary breaker types will always exist no matter which form they take, whether it's the casual racist, or some other form. Your activism or politics only serves to embolden these types of people even more, I know because I'm one of them. But funnily enough I'd give you my last pound if I could spare it. Does that make me a good person or a bad person, or bit of a mixture? Who cares? I don't care about fitting someone else's standards of good or bad. I'm not out to physically harm anyone or hurt anyone, and I don't care that much about what people think of me, unless they mean something to me and I actually value and trust their judgement. I won't be changed or convinced by some radical finger pointing activist, or some virtue signalling, perpetually offended squealer on the television, because most of these types of people are flawed in many ways themselves, they just don't care to see it because they spend their whole lives pointing out the perceived flaws they see in everyone else, while deliberately disregarding anything good in the people they take aim at. Their judgement is one dimensional and doesn't appear to be proportionate to the offence they believe has taken place. For example, they'll compare a casual racist, to Hitler himself, or some other super villain in an attempt to upscale the limited racism of a casual, to that of a mass murderer, or a full blown hate figure. And that's where these activist/politically driven types completely lose me. They're always out to gain the shock factor. The dishonesty in their comparisons, and the examples they use to completely sever a person's entire character based on one remark they made, or an offensive joke they told, is completely and utterly ridiculous. They use that one example, and then open up an armchair analysis of that person's entire personality. Indicating that if the person is capable of saying this one thing, then they must also be capable of being a super villain and involve themselves in the kind of acts that leads to murder and genocide. It's the equivalent of saying a hunter who shoots birds for example, while not exactly a noble practice, must then also be just as likely to go out and shoot human beings too, so let's treat him as the latter rather than the former. Let's destroy his entire character because we hate him more for what we think he "could be" rather than what he actually is. My take on all of this race stuff, is that the best relationship between a black man and a white man, isn't actually one where they don't see race, but rather one where they do see it, but are comfortable with it, in fact so comfortable, that they can joke with one another about it, and still value a friendship they have with each other that has deeper meaning and isn't defined by a shallow societal expectation. That in my opinion, is how you kill racism, or at least the kind of racism that leads to hatred, mistrust and a desire to cause harm. It's the politicians and the activists keeping it on life support, because it's a valuable asset to stoke up the kind of division and hatred they claim to want to eradicate. Why are they keeping it on life support? Well that can be for another discussion.
This is a weirdly interesting documentary. They could of made it a lot shorter if they titled it. “Is Ron Atkinson a fucking idiot?” A three second documentary. “Yes, yes he is”
Being paid several times more than brain surgeons for being a football pundit is such a good deal that very very few people get that you really ought to be without blemishes to do it. If he's "brought back" someone else will have to go, obviously. My question is why the hell should someone else be forced out when they haven't done what Ron done? Can anyone answer that? There isn't an infinite number of commentator slots. Why should someone else be fired or have their work reduced for Ron? Hmm?
What he said was wrong especially in the presence of other people But what ever happened to forgiveness in this world? Ron made huge contributions to football and i hope he's enjoying his retirement
If Jesus was around today , and he stepped in when the woman was being stoned, and he said " Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" nobody threw one, but in todays society million of stones would be thrown.
Lots of nobodies give their five cents, but not the big man himself Marcel Desailly. Would have been the absolute minimum for a doc to hear his side of the episode.
@Scruffy Sandra that was it, about the racist remark. Terry said that Anton heard the black C bit but missed the beginning Terry saying "I didn't call you" Terry got a not proven as Ashley Cole went went as a witness.
