Not to say that there is not a skill for CNCing, yours is a brain and muscle skill. I would rather be a manual machinist in a job shop speaking for myself. Its an art form.
This video shows exacly why i love watching you do stuff Peter.you always do it the correct way and never cut corners. Always indicate raw stock and milling the center for perfect center. Never in a hurry 😁👍
This part is very similar in size and shape to shafts I'm machining at the moment except we shrink fit and weld the flanges after rough turning and final machine it.I guess it comes down to what it's used for.
Nice to see the machine moving that much material, it is a hell of a lot of chips. Just out of curiosity, it would be interesting to see if @David Wilks could come up with a way to using a parting tool then trepan the material discarding the outer portion. Then come back and rough the blank to the size you ended up with.
I had the same thought. I wonder if there are any trepanning specialists here in the U.S. In this case, Peter got the job because he can knock 4 pieces out pretty quickly and the customer knows he's getting top quality work - quickly. Time is money, as they say.
Thank you Peter for posting this interesting video on your work. I'm sorry there are so many trolls with the same endless repetitive comment. I appreciated you answering the question so many times with patience.
I understand people don’t have the time to read over 200 comments. So I don’t mind answering the same question. It at least shows they are interested. Thanks John.
I couldn't help but imagine the finished product as a massive engine valve+stem, and got chills from the size of the resulting engine to go with them =D Very nice work. Thank you for the quality videos.
Just incredible work! I love your videos...even though I'll probably never have the opportunity to operate machines like yours, I very much appreciate the precision and beauty of the work you do! Thanks for posting your videos, I really enjoy watching them. All the best, Jon
Impressive material removal peter. I was thinking something along the lines of the guys with the trepanning idea, we used to have a work where we would face grove as deep as the face groove tool would go and then part it with a normal grooving tool, creating rings. We actually used the rings for the parts, would make 3 different diameter parts from the stock we had, were much smaller pieces of course :) and it was brass. Not sure you have face grooving tools that go deep enough to make it worth while in such massive stock. Here it would make the process much longer, you would have to remove the tailstock and hammer the ring off every time, probably the time waste not worth the material saving.
As a young Applications Engineer in Australia I once did some test cutting for a customer in the Japanese factory on one of these machines with a 6.0m (236") bed length. Incredibly powerful and versatile machines.
Haha. And do you think that Felix would get a broom, sweep up and move the full drums without being told. He's too busy smoking cigarettes and looking at his phone.
Hello Peter. Right after working for centerline I worked at Watson grinding (Right around the corner. ) we used to made very similar parts like that. You brought memories back to me.
We make a very similar shaft part like that in our shop. We get blanks with a large disk and shaft friction welded together. Thus we avoid machining all of that off of a solid billet.
That is a baby chuck heck even my 36" 4 jaw is small compared to some out there but you certainly won't be dual key setting my chuck unless you have 8 foot arms. LOL
This is an example of when forging could save a lot of machining time and stock. Of course, you'd need a large-enough run to justify the tooling for forging.
Exactly what I was thinking. How many parts would it take to justify having castings made for this job. 1,000lbs of chips is insane but if its only a small order, you have no choice
@@squeegied3rdeye713 Casting one-offs is a bit easier than forging, as nowadays you can actually produce your pattern with styrofoam or 3D printing rather than wood like the older way, but there's still the fact that casting isn't always foolproof. I worked few a few months for a company that machined iron castings for engine flywheels, and one part had a recurring issue with voids near the hub. Casting steel is more difficult than grey or ductile iron, from what I understand. But I've seen some neat videos of a company near me that forges similar parts for things like gear blanks, but those are done a few dozen at a time.
I wonder if an enormous core drill (a bit like the concrete ones) and a super-sketchy parting operation could let you keep most of that removed stock in one piece. Probably not worth it but would still be interesting.
My grandpa use to co own a farm equipment dealership. There was a table there that I ended up with. It was made back in the 60s and the insurance made them get rid of it about 2015 so I got it. Its 2’ by 3’, 4” thick solid steel. An anvil table. I cant even imagine how much it weighs. It was sitting upside down on concrete blocks when I got it. I slid it and it destroyed those blocks.
This is why I advocate machines having their own jib cranes instead of trying to save money with a communal lift or having just one bridge or gantry crane. Jib cranes save so much time and effort
If the machine can handle a part or fixture weighing more than say 60-100 pounds it should have a hoist. It is also a mistake to put a 1000 lb hoist in a machine that can handle 4000 lb. put the correct size or someone will overload it!
You can't always store the parts in close proximity to the machine. So, if you have to transfer the part one or more times in order to machine it you gain nothing. Normally a jib crane has a very short distance it can travel.
I am overwhelmed by your professionalism. I would be happy if you address the questions: what makes the Mazak so accurate? stepper? Linear encoder? Rotary? Routes on linear bearings? I would love a lesson on the subject.
This machine is just servos with encoders to ball screws. The ball screws have liquid cooling run thru them. And yes the axis run on linear bearings. To get a better idea I have a video that shows these things.
Yes but this steel doesn't have a real high carbon content. OK for hammers and tools. But it should be higher for knifes. It would work maybe combined with something of higher carbon.
Customer order do from one piece and noting else. A piece made from a solid block is always the strongest, but also the most expensive and especially for something like this since there was so much material to remove but the customer knew what he wanted no matter the cost.
@@dtiydr Yes the - customer is always right but is with over kill .A welding engineer might save him from over kill .Yes welding can be stronger than the parent metal i can tell you for sure it would work with a correct heat treating process. 🧐
@@curtisvonepp4335 That is what I said in another comment but probably after sending out for heat treatment after welding the additional cost would negate the material savings of doing it from billet instead of a 2 piece welding.
I very seldom get this circumstance. Most of the jobs I do take a lot of manual operation intervention. I did have to stop and index the insert quite a few time during this so there wasn’t a hour straight without doing anything.
@@SuperAWaC Billet metal is a solid length (often in a square or circle profile) of material that has been extruded into shape, either by continuous casting or hot rolling. Billet material is often used in cnc machining.
@@darrennelson6803 I am a machinist. That is not a billet, it is a bar. Billets are what get made into bars. Using billet in the manner you are is a nonsensical marketing buzzword. The process for wrought metals is usually something like: Molten -> Bloom/Ingot -> Billet -> Bar (round/square/etc) or Molten -> Bloom/Ingot -> Slab -> Plate/Sheet What you're doing is the equivalent of calling a piece of metal sheet a "slab". Imagine tearing off a piece of aluminum foil and saying "here's a slab of aluminum" or "here's an ingot of aluminum". It's just the wrong word.
I'm estimating that this is 14"-16" at the largest OD. Since the video is sped up so much, one gets the impression that the rpm is way high. If my assumption is correct, you would probably be running the spindle at 160 or 140 rpm. Am I close? It would be great if a part of the clip would show the real-time speed. The fast clip is also cool- 3 hours shown in 10 mins. Your videos are amazing and the attention to detail is outstanding. Thanks you for sharing your experience. Respect!
It's jobs like this where I love hogging with my big 6 series inserts! ~400sfm .5" DOC. It makes steamy potato chips and fast work of big shafts. Just gotta have the HP and rigidity to make it all happen.
That's insane! I've never machines anything in my life, I just stumbled upon this video and I was mind blown about the .25" DOC... .5" DOC!? what kind of machine and cutting tool can do that? I'm genuinely interested, I didn't know we could move metal like this lol
Working at NOSL Louisville, I machined parts like this back in the day on manual lathes. I used to see how much of a cut the machine could handle. ( I tripped the circuit breakers a few times.) The hot chips felt good on cold winter days.
Слава Петров somehow came to my mind... ;-) Using forged pieces would make it faster and cheaper material-wise, but the cost of forging would be probably much higher than 400 kg of this material turned into shavings. With bigger batches, like, say 40 or 400 pcs - yes, it might be worthwhile to use forged "zagatovki", but not for a batch of just four pieces, I reckon. Also, as others pointed it out already, time is money, especially with those expensive machines, so any "economising" here would be like spending a dollar to save a dime. Split pieces design? Yes, unless specs called specifically for monolithic "dietal".
@@assassinlexx1993 I'm running an 18 core Intel36i processor with quantum bi-lateral fuel change/crossover mother board, and ceramic bearing motor. I think that is what helps the most with limiting the light dimming. My chuck run-out is now measured in feet, instead of 10-thousandths, but I think I can use Stephan's chuck tapping video to get it back into specs.
This is the SMW hydraulic steady rest. Normally it opens up. But I’m right at the max capacity. 16.18” dia. Of the rough stock. So I have to manually shove the arms out a little.
I'm thinking if the stock was 3D printed, there will be less waste due to machining but I'm not sure if the strength is comparable but the price would be bit higher.
Watching just a few of your videos I have learned a great deal! I am completely new to CNC machining, so please forgive my ignorance. Is there no way to use trepanning to remove the bulk of that material? I don't know how one would deal with the big "tube" of excess material coming off when parting it, maybe that's the reason it isn't done. It just seems like such a waste to create half a ton of chips when making a shaft. Thanks very much for your excellent videos and discussions.
Look at David Wilks latest video he is doing a similar thing. It is possible on the right machine. On my machine I don’t really have the proper way to mount a treepanning tool or the volume of coolant necessary to make it work. It would be nice to have the piece of hole bar that would come from it.
@@EdgePrecision I found your site after watching David Wilks. I understand about the tool and coolant. Trepanning sure takes a torrent of coolant to cool the tool and move the chips. I hadn't thought about that. I appreciate your taking the time to respond. Thanks a lot.
Why do they turn it all the way starting from the initial od? Like why couldnt they cut down the desired od (plus an inch or two) with a hollow core bit or some sort and then cut the stock into two main pieces? I feel like that couldn’t be that difficult and would increase the value of the scrap greatly
For this few parts the cost of doing that would exceed the value of the scrap. Also the time it would take to make or acquire the tooling to do it would be to long. One other and even more important issue is there is no way on this machine for me to even do that kind of machining operation. There is no way to properly mount and support the treepanning tool. So for this customer who was in need of the parts on a shorter time schedule. This is the most economical way to go. If there were more parts and time a open die forging would be the way. This would use less steel and also require less machining roughing time.
Watching that first lift reminded me of a co-worker that forgot to pull a fixture pin before lifting a tank laser sight off a test fixture. $40K damage.
I've seen a few comments saying trepan it and part it off Peter. I have a piece of inconel 718 to do. If you get time look on my channel Wednesday. I do this a lot. It's only a small job but you'll get the drift. I made sunnppa channel to cut 95mm trepanning tool. What is the shank details of your collet. Can you use straight shank? I fancy making a smallish tool for you. This job would've been perfect to do... trepan to depth... part through. 🤔
Thanks David. It looks like I will be making some more of very similar parts for this customer. But unfortunately they all vary in size. These ones were the largest ones. All the rest will be smaller. Or so they say. I will keep a eye out for your video Wednesday.
Hi Peter, after 3 hours of heavy cutting, how was the temp of things? I see you checking at 9:35. If the coolant kept it room temp, did the coolant heat up? I'd think 1000 pounds of blue chips had to heat something up.... Thanks for the vid!
Great video Peter. Have you ever made parts like these using the Mazak control? I was impressed that B axis didn't pull into the job with those .250" cuts, must have a solid locking system to prevent that. Cheers
Haha! You got that right. Certainly not making the tool, we're lucky enough to have quite a few on hand but it's not very easy to find them here in the USA.
This is a ridiculous idea for this machine. How do you suppose I would mount the tool? Not to mention having to make it. Trepanning takes a high volume of coolant that the systems on this machine doesn’t supply.
@@EdgePrecisionTrying to be nice and offer a tip for future jobs is all I was doing. We rough an oil field job on our 17-in Clausing 10hp manual lathe, 12-in cast iron billets turned into flange connection for 4-in pipe. Very similar to what is being done in the video. No flood coolant, instead it's an air line about 10psi with coolant bled in the line. It's enough to blow the treppan clean of chips, and it never really gets hot because I'm just using a standard trigon insert at the tip. Tool on that job is made from standard DOM pipe with slots and insert pockets milled on a Bridgeport. It gets us within 0.1" of final, and then we put it in the Okuma and finish the job. Again, just trying to pass along a suggestion for a process that is pretty rarely used these days. Might help someone win a big on a job, helped us win a few oil jobs recently since our equipment is kinda outdated and we need all the help we can get.
Non-cnc hobby machinist here. Whats the advantage of using a drill and endmill at an angle to cut a center vs just using a center drill in this instance?
I changed the barrel every part. Each part filled the barrel around 3/4 full. That when we weighed one was more than out 1000 lb max scale could measure.
Great video, what are the they are going to be used in? They look like really heavy duty drive shafts for a chipper/shredder machine or something like that.
I asked the customer if I could make videos on this. They said yes as long as I don’t tell who it is for or what it does. So that will have to remain a mystery.
