Rowan Williams on Dostoevsky 

Care to elaborate, please?

+Kelly Tardivo Read about polyphonic styles of fiction. Dostoevesky is often classified as using said style

+villaparis2 He dictated some of them them. Some of his beliefs he held can more described as close minded than genius.

I'm reading crime and punishment for the 2nd time now and his bias is much more evident to me now. Still an absolute joy to read

He actually didn't write in a stream of consciousness style. He wrote down the main ideas first in his notebooks, then elaborated on those ideas, and finally, after completing the intellectual process, he would write his ideas in the form of a narrative.

I think it is. Freud, Nietzsche, Camus, Sartre and Einstein claimed so.

Dial L for Literal better listen what the popular authorities say and obey put the shackles on

Crime and punishment is a close second but you are right it is his best

I got a copy delivered to me last month. I cannot wait to read it!!!

joe curtin what? Really? can you go into that more because I think these characters are some of the best and most unique I have ever seen they are essentially humans.

His books are rather layered and can be read several different ways. 1: Narrative. Very strong, mixing crime and love with vibrant characters. 2: Philosophical and religious. Also very strong, with space and vigor given particularly to FD's antagonists, like Raskolnikov and Ivan Karamazov. Redemption through just suffering and almost holiness through unjust suffering are themes in all his works. You understand this level a LOT more if you know the Bible and church tradition. History is useful too. 3: Subjective. Characters lie and distort, but so does FD as the narrator. Trust no one! 4: Metaphorical. Mostly of emotional and sometimes religious nature, and actually serve as closing arguments for some of his characters when they can't find the intellectual arguments they need. 5: Political. This is always the backdrop, and should be kept in mind at all times. God is dead, what are the consequences and how does the resulting war between science and mysticism affect humans in particular and society in general? 6: Allegorical/transpositional. Characters as representations of aspects of humanity or aspects of the human soul. The Idiot for example reads very differently indeed once you realize that Mysjkin and Rogozhin are the same person, and that the novel is an FD version of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Karamazov is even worse when it comes to this. Fjodor is both the human soul, God and Russia, and his sons the remaining aspects after the former has been murdered: science, religion, emotion. This what FD thought radical intellectuals had actually done in the real world, and he wrote about it in the novel. Karamazov reads just very differently indeed with this in mind. This stuff also ranges from sociology and geopolitics to psychology and religion. It's all the tough issues he wasn't able to describe and fully explore in prose, so they are instead there as allegories or fragments of allegories. It is the heart of Dostoyevski. He lies to you to teach you deeper lessons. Just in general, if you think these are simple, straightforward books, may I humbly suggest that you might have missed some things.

Some people in Russia don't like him. I know!

Mike Fuller Great eyebrows as well!

Peter O'Brien Thanks Peter!!!

Alphonsus Jr. Thoroughly possessed as well.

+Danny Berry She's utterly flabbergasted that a Christian could be interested in fiction. That's not a problem with Christianity or with fiction - that's a problem with her own seemingly narrow experiences. Has she never heard of someone like Flannery O'Connor, let alone John Milton or Dante Alighieri? Astonishing naivete.

Yes - and shocking how, if you listen carefully, she had almost completely misunderstood Dostoevski as a relativist. Williams’ answer to her “polyphony” question is pure perfection.

As a Christian Anarchist I would say 'The Inquisitor' is the greatest argument for Christianity.

Sadly (tragically, even), it is a view that is very widely shared in these times when the message of Christianity has so often been co-opted by the rigid and unimaginative.

of course, the old monk was a complete phony. hence he stank.

Many Saints were not given the gift of incorruptibility of their corpses, but this doesn’t make them any less Saints than those who were. Dostoevsky was making exactly this point, that sanctity is not strictly bound to the miraculous. Faith and holiness are what counts

The 'hero' of the novel, as Dostoevsky tells us at the beginning is Alyosha, who is a monk. But Fr Zosima has told Alyosha he must leave the monastery and go out in the world. Zosima is a very unconventional monk. His enemy, the half crazed ascetic Fr Ferraton, is much closer to the traditional Orthodox ideal. In my understanding Zosima, by stinking, is driving Alyosha out of the monastery and making the wider point that the old separation from the world is no longer what is required, that Christians should engage with the world. But one should also note that the Devil in conversation with Ivan (but is the Devil really Ivan talking to himself?) refers to the naughty trick he played on Alyosha. Note again that although Alyosha is terribly upset by Zosima's body stinking he continues to regard him as his spiritual father.

I think it is Bridget Kendall.

She loves that word and it diminishes her.

@@liammurphy2725 I think this was actually a perfect word - or at least a very valid one. Polyphony has to do with the layering of differest octave registers over one another so as to create different musical intervals at various moments in a number of different combinations, almost creating something like "musical space" which is very hard to describe -- and which may be a rich analogy for the almost ineffable drama of a late Dostoevskyan novel -- the varying elements within the underground man, or the outpouring of Zosima before the world, before all of creation, before Alyosha. One could offer think about, however, what makes for the consonance, even when a governing or dominant musical key isn't so clear cut, but certainly there -- almost what Williams talks about right after they discuss the word... and with what might be said about poetry as such

I might also add that the question of poetry as such with Williams introduces bears on the question which seemed to be underlying the conversation concerning the characters and their arguments: how do we intend the content of a voice (polyphony means many voices) in Dostoevsky, and do so with respect to the fact that the novel is not simply chaos, nor is it easily wrapped up in a bow?

Imagine being you.

you could see it coming right when she admitted to having had a political interest in russian literature

Oh yes. And that’s putting it mildly. She took Dostoevski as a relativist!! What disappointing superficiality.

Non cookie cutter That’s a commonly used word in literature and history. Don’t project your lack of knowledge on others.

​@@texasvet2729 Lol you can't be serious. For one thing, it really isn't a common word in literature (across any genre). Anyone who's read at least a handful of books across different topics would recognize this. Secondly, the fact you think you can derive how much knowledge a person has from a single sentence in a RU-vid comments section (regarding the use of the word 'polyphonic') is egotistical, pseudo-intellectual and quite frankly laughable. Be honest and admit you've tried to purvey your own warped sense of your own intelligence and it's backfired, you've made yourself look a fool. While we're at it, how many of Dostoevsky's novels have you actually read? My guess is not many...

Typical of the ignorance of religion widespread in the news media

Hey thicko, the irony is agonizing. just shut up, you don't know shit about william's nor dostoevsky, i cringe at your being. Titface

Shoahshana Goldberg-Shekelstein Like they said in the interview, you have to make a distinction between Dostoevsky's views in real life and his ability to convey a plurality of views through his characters in his novels. Dostoevsky is NOT a "conservative realist" when it comes to his fiction.

Lynn Turman The nihilist, socialist, and otherwise "progressive" characters are always portrayed as the main antagonist (Pyotr Stepanovich + crew, Smerdyakov), someone who eventually redeems himself (Raskolnikov, Shatov), or a subsidiary character whose views are illustrated to appear farcical and ridiculous (Lebezyatnikov, Ivan Karamazov). Just to name a few. Dostoevsky's political views are extremely clear in how he forms and portrays his characters. Yes, a plurality of views are expressed in the book, but that doesn't mean he agrees with them. The Grand Inquisitor is certainly not written because Dostoevsky is secretly a Catholic. He hated Catholics, and he makes this abundantly well known in his novels.

Shoahshana Goldberg-Shekelstein According to Williams (as stated in this interview--and I'm paraphrasing), one of the things that makes Dostoevsky such a great writer was his ability to present an argument (through his characters) for something (Catholicism, atheism) that he himself was opposed to. I think Williams at one point even claims that Dostoevsky made a better argument FOR these things in his novels than even the real life practitioners did. I'm not defending Williams or even necessarily agreeing with him, I'm just trying to answer your question as to how someone could be attracted to a writer who has seemingly opposite views.

Shoahshana Goldberg-Shekelstein Have you read Dostoevsky's A WRITER'S DIARY? I'm reading it right now. It's pretty interesting. It's kind've like a 19th century version of a blog rather than an actual diary. You're right, he really was conservative: very patriotic, pro-war, anti-Catholic. And by today's standards, anti-semitic. He has a whole chapter where he defends his views as NOT being anti-semitic that when filtered through a modern sensibility, only serves to make him seem more so. Personally, he's my favorite writer. I find his unique sensibility (a dualism containing both the need for Faith & the acknowledgement of doubt) to be very modern & applicable to the zeitgeist amidst the 21st century.

Thanks for your response. Much apppreciated.

I'll take a stab. I think he's showing that even the most pious person who has dedicated their life to God and done all sorts of good deeds falls short of true righteousness. The comparison is at the end where he makes a point of saying the young boy, who was a bit onery, had no odor. He was the one that was genuinely pure. It's a statement that fits nicely within Taoism.