RUGBY'S NEXT CIVIL WAR?! | A BRITISH & IRISH LEAGUE??! 

South Africans joining to the URC has arguably made it the best league in Rugby. I’ll stick with our Saffa brothers thank you!

Irish and Saffa fans are in an electric phase of creating rivalries, relationships, and just a whole vibe of joy. Good luck to anyone trying to split them up!

Ireland have nothing to gain from this. We're doing just fine with the URC as it is.

It's so good to see the support from the Irish, Welsh and Scottish fans in the comments. I assure you, we Saffers have loved the switch to the URC and have developed great respect for our opponents. The fact that 3 different teams from 3 different countries have won the comp in the last 3 years shows how competitive the tournament is. I'd be devastated if we had to return to SANZAR!

“Prem considering merger”. The arrogance of how it’s being portrayed. “Access denied, yours truly, the URC”…great videos Tim

As an Irish rugby fan I have zero interest in a "British and Irish league". English clubs can join the URC if they want, on the terms of the URC, as just another country. The URC is doing just fine thanks. And we are happy with the Saffas and Italians. This article strike me as the kind of supremely arrogant crap you'd expect from the Telegraph who thinks England still has colonies.

No way here in Ireland that we are jettisoning the saffa teams and our pals in Italy. By all means see if there is some sort of a way of bringing ginger in the English clubs. But not at the expense of our Italian and South African pals.

As a Saffer, it warms my heart to see the camaraderie between supporters - we down here get shafted so often (super rugby is a good example) that we are not used to seeing true support and friendship - as they say “a friend in need is a friend indeed”

The last time we let the English in they didn't leave for 800 years

The URC is doing just fine as it is and as a proud Munster Rugby fan I would be totally opposed to the IRFU shafting South Africa and Italy for this merger. The Premiership clubs made this problem for themselves so they can sort out their own mess

In fairness the URC have come out with a statement denying all this speculation. The SA sides have proven to be a huge positive for the league. Growth is well ahead of expectations. Some people derided it as a ridiculous gimmick with sides down the end of the world joining the league but they've all been proven wrong. Any Irish rugby fan I've spoken to wants nothing to do with this proposed merger. We're far better off testing ourselves and sharpening our tools against Saffers. It's amazing for our development to tour regularly down there.

Hi Tim. Hope you are safely back home in the UK. Love from South Africa 🇿🇦 ♥️♥️♥️♥️

As an Irish fan, very happy with URC as it is. Delighted with SA being in it. Sounds like Premiership is pissed off with its setup and is looking over the fence at URC with a bit of jealousy.

As an Irish fan I love the URC with South Africa and Italy. Even with the logistical issues it’s become a fantastic league. I’d be bitterly disappointed if Italian and South African teams were pushed to one side. I say leave it alone it’s not broken…….

As a Glasgow fan I'd be gutted if Saffers left. They are the reason the URC is so good. Everybody else has had to raise their game

As an Irish rugby fan I love the URC especially now that the saffers have joined. They play some incredible rugby and it has only helped our teams develop further. Why on earth would our union destroy what is becoming a gem of a league. If the Welsh become competitive again it will be amazing. Champions cup provides all the game time we need against English teams.

Ireland and South Africa are the top two teams in the world. The URC is on fire with Irish and South African teams. Clubs from Wales, Scotland and Italy and their national teams stand to benefit playing with the best. The URC have a lot to lose by changing things

As a Scottish Rugby fan, the last thing I want is a British & Irish league. The URC works because it spent 20+ years untying the kinks and knots that were holding the league back. If the top tier English clubs got involved, then you can guarantee that they'd completely ruin the balance of the league. (yes, I'm aware that the welsh clubs are a mess, that's their own problem)

As far as I am concerned (if what Tim says is close to the truth), I would not want the IRFU to support ANY MEASURE that would lead to the expulsion/exclusion of South Africa. No exceptions.

Leaving out SA will be detrimental to such a league, as the NZ and Aussie fans, unions and pundits now acknowledge (after they kicked out SA teams out of Super Rugby).

Any SA URC fans watching this take heart from Tim said about the IRFU and how it does business, we tend to look at the big picture and realise selling out our partners is not good for business or the game.

Love your work Tim, can't wait to see your Deon Fourie interview 👍👍🙌

To me this sounds like English tabloid media desperately looking to save their league and the clubs in it

Not a hope and zero interest from an Leinster supporter. URC is starting to really take off. The arrogance of English rugby or whomever wrote the piece to think we'd be lucky to have the English clubs who are drowning due to yrs of poor management and debt. Pointless discussion.

Really cool to see so much Irish support for us Saffa’s staying in. I personally love the league, as a UK based Sharks fan it’s awesome, gives me the chance to support the boys overseas and experience away days at some truly fantastic places. I’d be gutted to get kicked out. Fingers crossed this doesn’t happen, I still need to head over to Ireland for a game!

The Irish and South africans are currently 1 & 2 in the world. A big part of that is due to the fierce competition in the URC. Give it another year or two and every club in Europe will want a piece of the action. To be the best, you have to beat the best

As a munster and irish fan there is no way the irish provinces would join a league with the english teams as we saw their true colours when the english and french clubs decided to destroy the Heineken cup for short term financial gain. The english club owners cannot be trusted as they are too short sighted and will make bad financial decisions that will scupper their future. Iv had great memories of travelling to bath, Leicester, quins, etc the fans are great craic and very welcoming and getting to play them in europe each year is enough. If any teams from the urc are going to join an english league it would have to be the welsh as their fans have no interest in the urcand the commute would be very short

Number 1 ranked team .South Africa ..Nr 2 ranked team..Ireland ..and its debateable which is the better side ...No wonder others want part of the action 😅

I think the expanded URC is currently growing to be one of the best leagues in world rugby. Itvis heart warming to see that rugby fans actually acknowledge the growth that it brought to all the Unions, both North and South of the equator. It created new rivalries between teams like Ireland, Scotland and the Springboks. Long may we enjoy the benefits of forward thinking when most said it would not work.

I’m a Wasps fan and if this goes through then I’m done with watching club rugby. When my club went under I was sickened to see the total lack of solidarity amongst English fans and in particular other clubs, the premiership and the RFU. Everybody claimed to be sad, but nobody actually did anything to help the club recover. The MOST we got was Coventry offering free tickets to Wasps season tickets holders. Seriously. That’s the extent of the support we got. From what Wasps have said, the RFU were beyond unhelpful and vague while Wasps were trying to satisfy Championship requirements. Now, they’re talking about a premiership URC merger (with presumably, no promotion or relegation) meaning that Wasps will never return. I believe 2/3rds of Wasps fans don’t watch rugby anymore. Everywhere we look we are shut out. It feels as though everybody has decided that I’m not allowed to be a rugby fan anymore, that we’re not wanted or part of the community. You’re absolutely right in your criticism of short term solutions, but this idea is the very definition of it. Cutting to 10 teams was a lazy effort to fix a problem that could’ve been avoided anyway. We NEED the Champions Cup. NEED it. Lose that, change every league structure on Earth, and what goes next? The six nations? The rugby championship? What’s even the point anymore? World Rugby needs a total reform. It needs more control over unions, and the unions need more control over the clubs, and ALL of it needs more fan ownership. Fans need to be able to step in and say “NO.”

In the professional era, Ireland has followed the Southern Hemisphere model. Our role models have been New Zealand and South Africa. Our URC teams feed into the national team. Now, playing against South African teams and experiencing the climate, culture and style of rugby is so suitable for fans and players alike. I would choose SA and Italian clubs over English teams any day. This is just old school tie English arrogant Torygraph drivel. You best ignore it.

Tim you need to see the sharks Vs bulls semi final for the Currie cup, absolutely crazy game.

Ireland and SA both share a notoriously negative sentiment towards english overlords. The thing that unites us is our fight against the english, cant see true blood irish supporting this arrogant offer from the english😂

As a bulls fan i was excited when it was announced that we have joined the URC, and i watch every bulls game and also the other games too because i just love this league, and i dont want RFU to kick us out. I remember the first game away to Leinster we lost 31-8 then came the semi final at RDS and we clinched that game going to the final. This is the best comp. I have been hearing ALL Black legends saying that super rugby isnt the same that sa teams left, so yes we do at value to the game. dont change a working plan.

The English media is one of the most toxic parts of Rugby Union and certainly contributes to the lack of growth of the game. The Premiership lost some clubs due to financial mismanagement and now want to dip their fingers into a pie (the URC) that is actually working. I think most would welcome the Premiership teams into the URC, as long as it comes without any detriment to the current URC teams.

Copied statement from the BKT URC webpage: "Contrary to media reports the BKT United Rugby Championship is not engaged in discussions regarding a British & Irish league. Since the introduction of the four South African teams in 2021, the league has enjoyed a sustained period of outstanding success achieving record audiences, attendances, social media growth and new levels of competitiveness. This is due in great part to the efforts of all 16 teams across Ireland, Italy, Scotland, South Africa and Wales which has elevated the league to new heights. The BKT United Rugby Championship is committed to continuing this pace of growth ahead of the new season and far into the future".

1232 views after 17 minutes...not too shabby Tim 😊

An English paper assuming the English clubs can dictate what they want to happen will happen is such a typical English press thing!

I'm going to stop you right there. As it stands the Irish clubs are equal shareholders of an extremely competitive league growing year on year, why in the name of all that is holy would we leave just to play second fiddle to the English clubs?????

Fantastic analysis Tim, as always. Thanks so much. I'll be livid if the boks get shafted. I hope my union, the IRFU, does the right thing.

Yeeeeeesssss!!! Pleeeeeaaaasssse!!! Then SA teams can come back to Super, we need them please!! Lol. Not going to happen I know, just a dreaming Kiwi. Excellent video Tim, very interesting thinking on the issue.

As a Scot the thought of joining a league with Premiership clubs is a nightmare. The URC has developed into the best league in the NH, if not the world. The addition of the SA clubs has brought an extra dimension and interest to the whole thing. Can see a case for the Welsh regions to join up with the Premiership, as they do in football, but not the Scot’s, Irish and Italians, who are all more than happy with the current format.

One way to make it work would be to have it modelled on French League with divisions. That could accommodate best teams from the countries in a Premier League , but not sure the English would be happy if for example Gloucester was in a first division with Cheetahs, Lions, Connaught and Benetton . As a Stormers fan I’m loving the URC . Agree with you Tim regarding Champions Cup is on its way out .

The reason the champions cup is in decline isn't because epcr is tinkering. It's the fact that they exist at all. The competition you remember as the greatest club rugby comp in the world was destroyed by greed and hubris.

As an Irish fan, I am happy with the URC as it is .leaving SA out would terrible.

Hi Tim, thank you for picking this apart so that I could understand. Glad to see you home after your visit to your 2nd home🇿🇦😁 I think it would be unfortunate to cut out our SA teams. I have personally seen some really low down comments directed at our rugby teams the last few days. As a SA rugby fan, we had one of the most amazing tournaments, the Super 12. That tournament was exciting, the best of the best got to hone their skills and be better players and stronger teams for it. Logistics and management politics ended that. My question is why wouldn’t you want to play your best against other teams best, it makes them stronger collectively and it exciting to watch? I think as a SA fan I am personally tired and fed up with the constant mud sling our way. My own individual opinion. Anyway great to see you and always worth listening to one of the few genuine people on here. Love from SA🇿🇦❤️

Can't see it happening. Incredible financial mismanagement in the English game has brought us to this point. Why would everyone else voluntarily destroy what is the second best (on track for being the best if the last 3 years is anything to go by) league in world rugby? I'm an England fan, but the arrogance of the Premiership is breathtaking

The thing that struck me is the arrogance of the English clubs to be like "Yeh we'll take some of you but not the Italians and south Africans" when you can't deny the success the URC has had since the SA teams got involved. The quality has skyrocketed, viewership and attendance has broken records, what possible incentive would Ireland, Scotland and Wales have to leave that.

As a Bulls fan living in the UK it give me an opportunity to watch them in Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Please leave the URC as it is. It is helping all 5 nations participating, English Premiership is in a mess and we are not going to bow down to the English at all. May the URC go from strength to strength.

Your average Irish Rugby fan Tim wants, zero,nothing to do with The Telegraph story, The Premiership is a busted flush ,the URC with South Africa and Italy is our only way, The English Premiership has three bankrupt teams, Worcester, London Irish and Wasps are gone, we don't want the same to happen to Connacht or Ulster, and Lions and Sharks ...URC is fine just how it is I want South Africa, Scotland, Wales, Italy and Ireland. South African teams is why the URC is in success and the rivalry between the Irish, Scottish and South African ,but Wales is different situation. The Irish and Saffas are one and two in the world the URC is where its at ...

It's in the Telegraph so we know it's not true. The URC with SA and Italy is brilliant so why would we change . As a Munster fan, happy to have English clubs join the URC but not the other way around as normally you jump off a sinking ship and not on to it.

Exclude South Africa from any competition at your peril !!!

Not a snowballs hope in hell do I want to lose the Saffas and Italians.. what the feck is this even about!? Saffas have added a dimension of incredible depth to the richness of URC. The fans, the new rivalries, the teams at the top.. just all of it. Saffas have added something that English clubs just can’t. Sorry England. Gonna have to go with sticking with our Saffas brothers on this one. Not cuz I’m Irish, just cuz Saffas are that good. Altho I wouldn’t be against English clubs joining the URC under the same system and name.

At this rate I'd just like Tim running all the leagues haha

Beaut to see support from Ireland ... SA fans take note .. rivalry must ALWAYS be on the respect side ... Irish have proved more than worthy opponents and. . dare i say it .. improved our standards !!

Saffas can join the Italian league 😂 in all seriousness, I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to push out SA rugby from anything. The potential for rugby is enormous for SA now and in the future

Hey Tim was great having you in the Republic See you soon

Oh Tim...we miss you...watched all your SA videos. So glad my favorite guys "Keo & Zels" hosted you. Love you guys...from a rugby fan since "high school days back in the 70's.👀

This is definitely an English proposal because I don't see how this benefits Ireland. And it definitely doesn't benefit SA or Italy. The English clubs must be in bad shape

Mark McCafferty caused all of this. He is the one responsible for the decline for the English Premiership and the old Heineken cup. And let's face it, we all want the Heineken cup back.

Premiership is dying for something. But the other unions aren’t dumb enough to drop the safas. Also, why would the Irish clubs join when they’re in the better situation? English Union acts like the premiership is something special. That’s no longer the case.

Storm in a tea cup Tim 🇿🇦. All about the money. That said, the demise of any comps / clubs by extension is not good for our sport.

My honest opinion is that nobody with power and authority in the UK is capable of making good, well-reasoned, long-term decisions. That's why we see the premiership going down the shitter, it's also why every other aspect of living and working in this country has become 100x worse in the last 10 years. I WISH that the RFU could have an "oh shit" moment like the IRFU did, and come up with a plan to actually improve things long term but I actually don't think it's possible.

Poms are just pissed off that the URC is doing exceptionally well WITHOUT the POMS now they want in. I say piss off, join the URC with their terms or back off.

I'll rather see the Irish teams playing SA than England. The irfu said if all countries were involved, they would be interested. So the Irish surport itlay and SA and Welsh surport itlay and Scotland surport itlay. Plus, urc denied this

Irish rugby has a very well-developed pyramid organization in which the provinces are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the IRFU. It has worked very well. The only issue for Ireland in the professional era is getting the provinces enough quality games in a domestic competition. The inclusion of the SA teams definitively solves that issue plus the Scots and Italians have got their acts together. Why on earth would the IRFU be the slightest bit interested in this proposal? I could see some interest from the Welsh, as they love Anglo-Welsh rivalry in matches, but that's it at most.

I have had my fair share of banter with the Irish fans,but i do believe we will stand together and nip this in the butt.

If this abomination went through as is I would be disgusted.The Saffas inclusion have been nothing but beneficial to us all. The Italians are improving year on year and the Scot’s have been a joy to watch. I will hate it when the Stomers eventually beat my beautiful Munster. But I will be enraged if they are never given the chance because of a quick cash grab.

Its the south african teams that make the urc, them joining was the best thing ever

The English clubs (& French clubs) ruined what was the Heineken Cup, the English clubs haven't a clue (3 clubs gone bust in d past year) based on getting more money - they got 20% less than the originally got from Heineken - ridiculous stuff from the English premiership clubs.... Let's not do that again....

Fake news, sadly. The United Rugby Championship has clarified that the competition is not in discussions to form a British & Irish league after reports about a possible merger emerged this week. According to the Telegraph, the proposed merger between the Home Nations from the Premiership and URC consisting of 17 teams with another set to be added in that instance. The merger would leave the South African and Italian sides without competition. The move was aimed at combating the loss of London Irish, Wasps and Worcester Warriors to financial turmoil. However, the URC has moved to clarify where the league stands with the current set-up that has seen constant growth and record-breaking since the South African sides joined in 2021. “Contrary to media reports the BKT United Rugby Championship is not engaged in discussions regarding a British & Irish league,” the statement wrote. “Since the introduction of the four South African teams in 2021, the league has enjoyed a sustained period of outstanding success achieving record audiences, attendances, social media growth and new levels of competitiveness.” While the increased viewership has come with the massive South African following, the URC paid tribute to all the teams from all five countries. “This is due in great part to the efforts of all 16 teams across Ireland, Italy, Scotland, South Africa and Wales which has elevated the league to new heights. “The URC is committed to continuing this pace of growth ahead of the new season and far into the future.”

This is sweet music to a kiwi ear. We would love to have the boys in green back at super rugby.

Would be good for the English clubs but terrible for everybody else.

Well done Tim, you have certainly stirred up an interesting debate. There are a lot of problems in world rugby that need to be addressed and discussed openly if we are going to reach solutions that are beneficial to all of us.

Why now- because they’ve seen the success - which is down to the SA teams participating. Swapping England for SA will not enhance the product- it will ruin it

As a South African, this would be devastating. The URC is by far the best champions in the world. Look what is happening with Australian and New Zeland rugby. A great partnership was broken, and rugby down under is in decline. The URC is an amazing breeding ground for world rugby!

Just to let you know Gang this story is getting zero traction in Ireland, I think the IRFU were watching for the reactions online and got a very clear message.

The biggest surprise for me out of all these articles is how much more the URC TV deal is than the premiership. Quite the turn around from a few years ago.

As I understand the SA Rugby / URC deal, the amount of money the URC would have to pay to buy out SA Rugby, who now have equity share in the competition, would be hundreds of millions of dollars & would leave any new regional competition in poor financial health from the outset, plus it would remove millions of TV viewers. Super Rugby's biggest fault was growing to too many teams ... so 16 URC teams plus the English teams is a rugby overload disaster.

I hope you’re right that if a merger of the leagues should take place that it would include the South African and Italian sides. But I worry it’s not the case, which would be bad for world rugby.

Saffa living is Australia here, URC is getting traction here would be a shame for it to end. My view has potential to be the best rugby league in the world, much better viewing then super rugby.

Cheers Tim ..glad you enjoyed your stay in my confused country 😅...It's quite a jol ....But aside ..Another rather famous South African...goes by the name of Elon Musk recently commented on Boeing's woes saying that planes shud be designed and built by engineers , not by spreadsheets in an accountants office ..loosely quoting but it's relevant ....Rugby can't be this thingy running out of control downhill tripping on its own feet pursuing cash ..You ...Me ...we ...have to push back now and defend Rugby's greatest asset ...It's values between people .....cheers

Currie Cup semifinal between Bulls snd Sharks was bonkers.

I don't usually like to lead with the fact that I am South African but in this case it might be warranted. Nonetheless, wouldn't it be the best for the game as a whole to make decisions where the priority is to basically give struggling unions a boost by including them in a competition that allow them an opportunity to get their bank balances back in the green. I'm specifically thinking of Wales and, to a lesser extent, England. So, basically, I agree with you, Tim. This could shorten the season for all involved nations, create some separation between the longer-format league and the Champions Cup, synchronize two-thirds of the rugby nations' calendar years, and eventually lead to a situation where every nation is happy to pick their best players, even if those players are playing in foreign leagues of their choice. Not to mention, this would positively impact player health and safety. The only downside is that South African teams historically haven't had the special rivalries that European teams have. However, I suppose that concession is the lesser of two evils compared to teams going bankrupt, which is quite absurd given their rich history and pedigree. Regarding the high costs of traveling between Europe and South Africa, I’m sure a deal can be arranged with an airline, and/or the competition's structure can be adjusted to reduce the financial burden on the different unions involved. It doesn't have to be perfect from the start, and even if the pooling of the teams are a bit off initially, at least it gives struggling unions a chance to recover without negatively impacting those that are currently doing well. For me, it's a no-brainer: we should help our struggling brothers or those facing a sharp decline to join the party and get back on their feet while maintaining support for the teams that are thriving under the current schedule.

Cannot see IRFU shafting SA and Italy, it would not go down well with Irish rygby public, Ireland and SA rivalry has raised the bar for both.

Was fun hearing a snippet of your commentary at time 22:05 in Episode 1 of Chasing the Sun 2!

This stinks of English desperation after the demise of several clubs and their lack of competitiveness in Europe , The English believed themselves too good for everyone 10 years ago, I don't believe for one second that the URC would give this any credence, I for one as a Leinster fan would not be in favour of ousting any country including South Africa. In fact, better the competition playing South African teams than English clubs any day. There is nothing to gain from this from an Irish perspective but maybe short term financial gain, it would do nothing for improving competition and doing deals with the Devil would be very frond upon by most people in Ireland. The URC is doing extremely well and doesn't need any fixing. I don't see the Champions cup going either, that is all the game time we need with English clubs. I think you and this article are dreaming Tim.

So as it stands. England: Um, could I join you please, but not with those Southerners, I don't want them around. Yucky. Ireland: I'm as good as I've ever been and it's probably to do with playing Southern teams more. Leave it as is, thanks Scotland: I'll go where ever Ireland go, I guess. Wales: I got a crayon stuck up my nose France: Cheslin started running before the kicker moved! New Zealand: Hey, I know I said some stuff in the past, but, SA, buddy, pal, please come back, I miss you Australia: I got the crayon out of Wale's nose but now it's stuck up mine Argentina: Don't care, the world is paying our player salaries and we're able to beat the ABs here and there. You all fight amongst yourselves. South Africa: It don't matter where we go. Hell, we'll play ourselves if we have to, as long as Rassie stays as head coach for the rest of time.

The source is the Telegraph 😂 the paper that had to publish the most retractions of stories about Brexit in one year.😂 Story maker uppers!

Joining the URC has been absolutely fantastic for South African rugby and the thought of our teams and the Italian clubs being possibly cast aside for the financial gain of a new league does not bear thinking about. It would go against all the principles that we like to attribute to rugby and what draws us to the game, like kinship, brotherhood, honour, camaraderie. It would just break my heart.

Currie cup is alive and well!

I am struggling with this one a little. It seems a scheme is going to push South Africa aside again. We're quite suspicious here in SA because we've seen this show before.

No interest in premiership joining URC. Logistics are an issue but please leave URC alone. From a Leinster fan

The idea that the English clubs would happily merge with the Welsh shows why I wouldn’t want them in the URC. The clubs are drowning under heavy losses and will take anyone down with them. The H Cup was ruined so English clubs could get their way. England were the first to look for their own 6 Nations tv deal. In a few years they would destroy the tournament from within in order to ease losses / look for bigger share of profits for themselves

Lets all hope they do what's best for the game and not what's best for them.

The sad part about this type of situation is always the least powerful countries like Georgia, Italy, Argentina etc, that are always left behind after all the effort they put in. It is quite hypocritical from England sadly.

Regarding South Africa, travelling has always been an issue no matter what league their clubs play in. If you look at the travel times, it’s actually takes longer to travel to New Zealand and Australia from South Africa than it does to Europe. The Welsh clubs seem to think leaving the URC and joining the Premiership will solve their problems but the reality is their problems will just follow them there. I really hope the Champions Cup stays, it’s always fascinating to see the clubs from different leagues competing against each other, and getting stronger as a result. But I agree with you it needs to go back to its old system.

No thank you. They see how strong our league is and they cant handle it

If it is not broken don't fix it. URC is fine as it is.

As a South African, I didn’t know the Europeans teams very well when the URC started but have come to really enjoy the rivalry coming from how unique each of those teams are. This would be a real loss for us if it came about.