This discussion took place in the studio of photographer Liz Lizzard during a photo shoot for an article about the "Queens of New York" Fenton Bailey was writing for the Canadian magazine "Graffiti"
How fabulous is it that they are having a philosophical discussion on the art of drag in a bathroom! SO fascinating to see Rupaul back in the 80s, she has come a LONG way!
@@vikingsong2068 are you kidding? These people did more to break down barriers for gay people and gender roles then you could ever imagine. They have more NERVE on their pinky finger then you’ve ever had in your whole life wonderbread. These are proud gay male drag queens who are using drag as a creative art form and the fact that you don’t listen to the words of this conversation and feel positive feelings shows that you are the exact people they are talking about in this LATE 80’s video clip!
@@frankfontaineofficial don’t think he’s mad .. there’s two genders plain and simple he has a dick which makes him a guy and no amount of makeup and wigs he puts on is gonna change that .. I respect how brave these people are that Nelson hung around with they weren’t afraid to be who they are .. but this new generation? They Confused
It’s so amazing how they are actually listening to one another and respectful when one is talking. I can’t stand chatter among my coworkers, they’re all young and just talk right on over one another to the point it sounds like a chicken hen. I often can’t join conversation because it moves around so fast.
South Oz ok boomer, back in your day it was illegal people of different skin color to drink from the same fountain 🙄 but hey, it’s MY generation that’s selfish and entitled 👍🏻
I feel like this conversation was before it's time. and they covered so many questions we still ask ourselves now. We say "oh well it's 2016, why do (blank) still happen? or why do we still think like that?). and it just goes to show that we're have mans and we wonder about the "unknown". like what makes makeup feminine? such good topics.
@@user_kH9bw3ns1 yes!!! a lot of the conversations the newer gay people are having today we've had them at least 15 years ago for people my age and 35 years ago for people older than me. nothing under the sun is "new" but somehow we constantly keep going backward.
Men in the middle east have worn kohl around their eyes for thousands of years. The official explanation for this is that it was believed to have medicinal properties, but it seems unlikely that that was the only reason for the application. People will have inevitably noticed how it accentuates the eyes and been attracted to it for that reason also. Its not as popular now, and that could be because of western cultural influence, but im not entirely sure.
This makes me miss the days of my youth when bunches of us would ponder and philosophy about everything under the sun all afternoon or all night.this warms my heart hearing how drag queens felt and feel about the world
I think being in drag makes you vulnerable in men's eyes, just like real women are. What's the one thing producers look for when they want to make some female a "star?" They look for beauty for sure, but it's vulnerability that sets it all in motion. That helplessness, the "little girl" attitude who is defenseless and needs protecting. You want to go to bed with her but at the same time you want to protect her. That's stardom. When straight men see men in drag, it's like denying their own manhood because they see how quickly macho can be changed to vulnerability and most men do not like to be perceived as vulnerable in any situation. So they lash out at men who make them see how easy this transition could be for any one of them at any time. We are all more alike than we care to admit. Does this make sense.....?
Aye. Men (straight ones) are very 'identified', but also quite easily intimidated by other men they perceive as not, in case they're going to be pursued by them, perhaps? Or maybe they're afraid of their reaction...
Men are terrified of their own possible homosexuality. Like they said in this clip. Men have been trained to be 100% heterosexual and any deviation from that is not okay. So when they see a drag queen that they find attractive it makes them question their entire life. Men will literally screw a blowup doll of course they will find anything feminine attractive. We’ve just all been socialized into believing that we’re not actually mammals/animals. We are! In the absence of females, heterosexual males start screwing weaker more feminine males. It’s nature. Haven’t you heard of prison culture?
Amazing on so many levels. Nelson's use of ONE freakin camera, natural light, angles, content, honesty and showing real respect and love for his subjects/friends on and off camera. 8 min and 33 seconds. As a film maker, i take my hat off to him. RIP my friend. ❤🔥💯🙏
MadMike Nelson isn’t “dead”, how disrespectful. He’s an angel in another dimension. And without Nelson, we wouldn’t even have this footage. So it is a thanks to Nelson. His close friend posts these videos for him.
OMG I love this... You can tell in this video that Ru is starting to find her way out of that 80's androgonous look and starting to really come into a cohesive drag look, because she really looks great here. Even though she hasn't come into her trademark blonde look yet here, I still like this dark wig here, it looks good. Watching all these old videos of Ru though, one thing stands out. Ru's personality is so sweet and so charming and KIND!
This is fascinating for a straight, white female to watch. Throughout these videos I have grown fond of all these guys, but especially of Lahoma (Jon). He makes a very interesting point about his almost unique dual perspective - that of being seen through the eyes of straight men as just an ordinary man, and also as a man identifying as female. Not many of us get to experience being perceived as one thing, and then another entirely, in the same context, and it's an interesting insight in to their world.
Could anyone explain what she means by "in the same context"? Perhaps it's b/c I only slept 15 minutes this morning, or maybe b/c I'm not the smartest, but I can't figure out it. Do you mean he's a man both times? I'm one of those ppl who's perceived in different ways, but it's usually when ppl get new information.
Does it not bother you that gay men think they can experience "womanhood" simply by wearing make-up, wigs and dresses? Do you not think that's offensive and regressive to actual women? And what does race have to do with anything?
@@vikingsong2068, nope it's in line with the socialization of privileged women in western society. They love to be told what femininity or womanhood is from 'enlightened' men/transwomen.
@@vikingsong2068 I’m a fully passable homosexual transsexual and I am biologically male. I live my life every single day being perceived by society as a woman. So yes I do know what it’s like to be perceived as a woman. The difference is that when I was being abused and assaulted by men growing up I couldn’t say “I’m a girl you can’t hit me” like you could. You’re a delusional social constructionist feminazi male hater. Rupaul and crew have more feminine energy in this clip then you could ever have with your hateful homophobic views. Homosexuals have been presenting as the opposite sex and bending traditional gender roles since the days of the catamites and eunuchs. I’m sure you’re quite butch yourself if you’re a feminist 😂
You could absolutely see the wheels turning in Fenton Baileys head that he was going to take drag and make it acceptable for the straight masses when LaHoma was telling the story of how she fronted the band she was in as a girl and won over straight fraternity boys by the end of the night.....The drag queen franchise was born at this meeting and LaHoma deserves the credit.....NOT RU PAUL
RuPaul was just as gorgeous back in the 80's..... And I love the Audrey Hepburn look.... The all look fabulous. Too bad Nelson passed. He would have loved youtube
I love this conversation with my whole heart. Its philosophical but in an environment that is authentic with out regurgitated talking points..compared to today's society.
Where is Michele Visage in all these videos? I am guessing this is before her lifelong friendship with Ru These videos are all amazing and I love the friendships of all of these people as a family
Thank you! This was a most informative discussion. I think it being in a very small bathroom is important as this is a well protected, highly personal, totally honest place. Everybody is totally real in the bathroom. But all that is about the honesty of the talk, what is being said is important. There is something beyond the performance and something behind the performance, there is the person wanting to be more Human than just one sex, one gender or one cultural identity. Drag is an exaggeration of the Woman Image, a Kabuki expression. Cross dressing is different, I think, being Male but appearing Female, or vice versa, reflects something different, not just "A Woman born in a Man's body", kind of thing, but a desire to, as one of the Queens said, "To feel the looks a Man gives a Woman, from the Woman's perspective." or to be "One of the Boys", a highly desirable position according to our Male dominant culture. Thing is, I'm hitting all around the enlightenment but missing the mark. Understanding, "Why Drag? Why cross dress? Why need to be something else? Is it like becoming a excellent soldier or powerful Politician, being submerged in your Art or hiding from the World, while revealing yourself to the World? I simply don't understand. I am not drawn to Drag but want to understand more about being Human. I have asked similar questions to real Soldiers and Politicians, Black people and American Indians, White people, Men and Women and they all have a hard time answering, as do I. I want to understand what it is to be human!
Y”ALL !!! I ACTUALLY JUST GOT A COPY OF THE MAGAZINE THIS PHOTO SHOOT IS FEATURED IN !! GRAFFITI MAGAZINE 1988 !!! WoW !!! If I could post pictures, I, oh so would ! 🌺🌸🌺🌼
That drag in black dress is a bit misogynist, he basically said that "males are more beautiful species". IMO, The man in the blonde wig that sat down likes woman a lot and understands women more, which is why he has more feminine energy than all of them.
1:43 Jump forward a couple decades later and you have the story of Courtney Act and Andrew Brady blossoming their platonic friendship in Big Brother...because Andrew reacted to Courtney with the whole fantasy, he pretty much was infatuated with her even though it was all a fantasy.
I think the last thing Lahoma did was for Rupaul's Starrbooty film a few years ago. He ame out of drag retirememnt to be in the film. You cna find clips on RU-vid and buy the dvd on Amazon.
If you can get on the subway and get home with no blood on your face.......the femme realness queens....says Dorian Corey. When you are a pretty girl who can pass, you meet and attract a whole different type of man......not every queen can do it. We all have different gifts......yeeeeeeeeeeeeeas!!!!!
