Rust Resistance Knife Testing - Which one corrodes most? I was suprised! 

Or they probably botched the heat treatment, the temperatures were off and a lot of the chromium was bonded into carbides instead of remaining into the steel solution.

@@em4703 The chromium is supposed to turn into carbides with this steel, if not the carbon would be kept to 0.60% like AEB-L. I also has 4.00% molybdenum and creates moly carbides as well. The steel is obviously not CPM 154. D2 has 12% Cr, but 1.50% carbon and 0.90% vanadium so it makes a lot of very hard Cr and V carbides. a little rust in saltwater is expected, but pitting after a few hours of saltwater is indicative of a minimal heat treat.

Tried out Bark River a couple years ago. There were some designs I really wanted, so I stuck it out, chased perfection for a bit, and gave them way too many chances. 4 out of 6 had gaps between the handle and tang, some quite significant. (Luckily one of those was caught by the dealer before shipping). I tried to get one fixed, and they didn't respond to my email, so I called...they didn't apologize for the issue and said to send it in according to the instructions on their site--including me paying $20. To fix a brand new knife. Two with burnt edges. Two with nicks in the tang and ricasso, one with a random deep gouge in the tang. One that came with micro chips, and another that chipped instantly, from nothing more than sheathing and opening a single package. Generally...inconsistent and faded maker's marks, sander swirls on blades, inconsistent handle finishing (a mix of polished and matte areas, some belt burns on micarta, some asymmetry, and some arriving dirty with polishing compound). I had hoped that it was a volume thing--they make lots of knives, so the 1-2% who get duds complain and seem like a bigger group than they are. Then I got burned several times in a row. Jumped ship. Will never buy another.

@@noamaster3898 seems like an excessive amount of issues you've experienced with Bark. You addressed it with them and they only fixed the 1 knife?

@@obu2108I tried to get one fixed. I called BR (after my email went unreturned for several days), explained the issue...they didn't even say, "Sorry to hear that," just said, "Send it in according to the instructions on the site."...At my cost to ship to them PLUS paying $20 for return shipping. To fix a brand new knife. I told my dealer I wasn't going to pay to fix it, and they contacted BR, who told them they were already taking care of it. But they didn't contact me or offer to pay shipping...so I just returned it to the dealer. The passable ones I sold, the rest I returned. Lesson learned.

@@noamaster3898I understand to not expect perfect, but yours sound sloppy. 😬 I pre-ordered one a couple days ago. Hoping I get a good one🤞

@@noamaster3898 that's unfortunate, I just got a barkie and it's my first knife over 40$. Same as you I thought maybe 1-2% was making it seem like a big problem and took my chances, I got a BEAUTIFUL knife. And I asked them about a plunge line they said it's fine doesn't hurt performance but they'd replace it or fix it. INSANE customer service. That alone is enough to keep me, they promise awesome knives in the steel and handle you want and if it's not to your liking they make it right no questions asked. Insane

Jack FarmBoy backyard science is a harsh mistress

Nick Shabazz Fool me once... Fool me twice... Something stinks here. This has happened far too often with Bark River not to be intentional. And playing devil's advocate, if it is not an intentional shady business practice, their quality control is ABYSMAL on par with an almost Gerber level here.

Mike has a shady past and most likely shady practices; the labeling is no accident. Everyone should test the steel on their BRK. Still like some of their knives but a complete lottery in what steel and quality of finish you get. The way shit goes I guess.

Me too...my Gossman knife is very rust résistant. Strange ....

01 has a really good heat treatment by Tindel knives. he knows what he is doing and the grain structure is refined and then tempered to prolong rust as much as possible. many steel types can do this. depends on how the mfg decides to heat treat and what properties they want in the end. but not every knife company cares about heat treatment.

Tactical Center That's some good info! Thanks for the response, and yeah it definitely seems like most companies don't care at all about HT at least until someone calls them out! I might have to do a similar test on my channel.

Sorry maybe I'm ignorant as to the manufacturing process and oxidation tolerances... What exactly does heat treat have to do with steel oxidation? I was under the impression that heat treat affected hardness and edge retention, and that rusting was a property of steel type and composition. If a steel type is prone to oxidation due to its components, it will rust. How does heat treat affect oxidation? Does the heat treat alter the elemental composition of a steel? Thanks for any info and please educate me on this, I don't know enough about it to knowledgably (word?) comment without sounding as if I'm talking out of my ass...

@@mayo470 I used to be the heat treater at a machine shop as one of my duties because I mentioned I made knives as a hobby. Yes, hardening does go a long way on slowing rust and since it was O1 I'm guessing the 0.20% vanadium made it have a very fine grade, it's why you see that little 0.20% on so many steels including stainless.

@@mayo470 no don’t listen to him. heat treatment has nothing to do with corrosion resistance. You are correct about that. The composition of the steel will determine its rust resistance, just like you said. The more carbon that makes up the steel, the more prone that steel is to rusting. It’s that simple. One thing that can effect corrosion resistance other than that, would be how polished the steel is. A highly polished blade will aid a bit in rust resistance. But that is very hard to do with high end steels that run a little harder on the Rockwell scale. I will say that the heat treatment effects how tightly packed together the molecules of steel are, and perhaps this could aid in achieving a finer polish. That’s about it.

Blue Mountain Bushcraft and Outdoors I know right, its like its opposite day. The Edge retention on this knife was about in line with lower end powder steel... but yeah, it doesnt make sense. Tindall does a pretty flash Heat Treat on his O1 so maybe theres something to that.

It's almost certainly A2, and this isn't the first time Bark River have busted for charging premium steel prices for an A2 blade*. I suspect this is Bark River common practice, given Mike Stewart's history. People don't want to believe that, because Bark River produce some great knives; but people are complicated and contradictory creatures. What's worse, they've been selling CPM 3V knives for big mark-ups, and that's much harder to test, since 3V & A2 are both tool steels. I wouldn't be shocked if someone eventually exposes Bark River 'CPM 3V' as boring old A2. * www.bladeforums.com/threads/bark-river-again.1463481/

Yeah was about to quote that thread from blade forums. Not the first time and the guy does not inspire any kind of confidence in his company. They have a nasty reputation when you peel away the layers.

Agreed. I think it's a common Bark River practice. If you're buying a BR knife advertising A2, you're fine. Anything else... don't count on it. I'd love to see more of this, putting other models to the test to settle all doubts regarding Mike Stewart's profitable little 'accidents'.

This is what ive seen from BR too. that and a lot of other BS they have www.bladeforums.com/threads/bark-river-knives.1504522/page-9 www.bladeforums.com/threads/bark-river-has-taken-16-000-of-my-money.585934/

unfortunately it ended up being a mislabelled A2

+Gill Bates yeah, I havent figured out a particularly 'sciency' way of doing it apart from using the saline from the one bottle about as evenly as I can. I did a second coat the same way at the half way mark. It was pretty humid and all in the shade under this area (like an undercover entertainment area). Submerging/suspending is a good idea too.

Jonas Weinfurtner my cpm-154 does not rust like that at all.

🤔 That sounds like quantum-physics in Sanskrit.

Stephen barone Chris from prepared minds never listens to me about this stuff. He deleted my link to the thread about the topic. He won't listen. Neither will apostle p.

Tactical Center Bit surprised to hear that about Chris. Not surprised about the overly pious apostle. $20 to sharpen a knife... ?

$20 is average to sharpen a knife via the internet. he's also not bad at it. you can pay 15-25$ a knife and get someone much much worse sharpen your knives and not even realize how bad a job they did.

Tactical Center Sure. I'm used to bringing my knives (the ones I'm not able to sharpen) to local guys for $5 and do a good job. My Spydies I'll just send in to them. The turn around has been quick.

Stephen barone lol i wouldnt buy that trash

Scared O Bears for the money they charge "mismarked" shouldn't even be a factor.

Scared O Bears j

it did! it waw A2

Justin Hoffman Yeah, would have to be mislabelled, is what I'm thinking. An A2 version of the knife

Contact BR. They will fix you up. Also, someone can post this vid to their FB webpage.

They sure do make a lot of mistakes or lies. which one is it? i dunno, but it seems to happen alot. not idea if you are a customer.

Brian Follett I warned Chris but he neglected the information.

Very sad indeed. Chris has a great set of ideas and is first screwed by Schrade (I personally wouldn't have risked a collaboration with an *absolute joke*yes, repeat and repeat again, *absolute joke*company like Schrade). I believed Bark River to be the pinnacle of production knives. After reading all of the BF posts, I won't buy a Bark River. If I were their PR department reading all of this I would be doing some serious damage control since their PR image just took a Shit. Saying "whoops, the A2 must have just snuck in there and we've sent a replacement" is not enough. Cold Steel is already laughable, *yes, laughable* and BR, a supposedly reputable high-end manufacturer, has apparently been exposed over the years for some shady sketchy business practices. I'm sure the BR fanboys will get their panties in a bunch over this, but there should only be crickets here for a response from them as all the BF postings corroborate this info. Very sad indeed and IMHO this is a Knife Maker Killer and they should be exposed as frauds. Many consumers not in "the know" wood have zero awareness unless they were part of BF to see the community response.

Lugermonger like I said, Sanskrit. Break it down for us knuckle-draggers...

MrSakoTRG Mike Stewart will most likely be pissed off if he posts the video. He doesn't want his company to be exposed to the stuff they do. He will most undoubtedly cause a ruckus. Very bad company drama for many years.

Tactical Center yeah he definitely won't like it but publicly from what I've seen on there it will put him on the spot to investigate the issue & correct it or replace the knife if there is something wrong. Any issues with his knives & he seems to be very quick on damage control. The video will most likely make its way on there at some stage.....then the popcorn comes out!

badeston yes A2 is a more expensive steel because of more edge retention AND rust resistance than O1

it ended up being mislabelled A2! full refund

@@CedricAda wow that's a horrible mistake. Makes one wonder how many have been "mislabeled ".

it ended up being mislabelled A2 steel, they sent me a new one that didnt rust in cpm154

Ah that makes a lot of sense I suppose. Mislabeled steel is certainly not what I would have expected.

Mopar HEMI advertising as stainless yet doesn't take steps to make sure it is when customers get them? Lol

In some ways that is true, but what I have found out through my use, is that the blade finish isn't as important as the finish on the actual sharpened edge. If there is some spotting on the blade or if a patina builds up, there is basically no difference in performance. If the edge rusts though, your knife looses it's main ability which is of cause to cut things properly, so if you keep the edge at least decently polished it should defy corrosion just fine. The chromium content should help with this but doesn't prevent it from happening... saltwater is still quite harsh! I'd be interested if it's just the blade finish, maybe an error in heat treatment or if this knife actually isn't made out of the steel it got advertised with. Latter would surprise me because BR earns their trust from the knife community since years.

You certainly could be right Jimmy. Blades are easily contaminated. Iron can easily rub off, from other sources. The best way to know for sure. Would be to buff the blade well, with a new wheel and fresh compound. Then test it again.

THis is very possible

Jimmy Grey can the opposite happen if a belt used on stainless is used on non stainless?

Would be a good test for sure. Either way it didn't perform as expected.

All of the excuses for why this "could have happened" do nothing for the fact that at $200+, it "should not have happened." This "whoops" is on par with Schrade, Gerber and Boker Plus. BR just dropped in status to the aforementioned companies in QC in a way that for me is similar to considering SOG and ColdSteel when buying a folding knife. Very hard to come back from. Like Hyundai or "have you driven a Ford, lately."

Richard Allan must have been "Hangover-day" in the QC department. At $200+ errors like this should not be permissible. There should not be one person to check all of this. "Case XX." Double tested, double checked. That said, it's hard to think that with all of this superb quality control, something seems fishy, stinks, and is a little shady going on here. Kind of like when VW was exposed for the emissions debacle which quietly went away...

HammerHill that is very true. This is why the 01 lasts as long as it does, because they use a low temper just like the delta 3v from survive knives (Peter's heat treatment). The cpm154 however is a different story as bark river is known for mis labeling steel and dry sanding and poor heat treatments among many many other issues unbeknownst to the general public.

Could be that there was some iron on the surface of the knife as well, deposited from an abrasive belt that had been used on a carbon steel. Maybe there was some carbon pickup or phase-change wonkiness from a unchecked temper, though I didn't think CPM 154 was so temperamental... I'd love to see the test re-done after refinishing the steel to remove any possible iron deposits

thomas nardelli nah its on loan to a buddy, he might buy it from me, but ill replace it if that happens

David Rutan as I've said in previous comments, at that price human error should not be a factor. Steps should naturally be taken to avoid human error. I. E. "Case XX," double tested, double checked. Not for my $200+ bucks.

Steven Robertson they will not be helpful as this happens many times before. They have been exposed but only to a minor audience, mainly a few people on bladeforums and even then, not a lot.

That's a real shame. If you are not in "the know," there is no way to be informed of these shenanigans when you have $200+ on the table and your finger on the mouse button.

Batscat yea man that's the best cpu for content creation

SollerS that is very debatable. I've seen some extremely high hrc blades not rust what so ever. Even those with high carbon content. They will rust of course but take longer to rust. Not sure which ones you have that will rust easily at higher hrc.

Tactical Center I mean if we take one steel, so for this steel on higher HRC it's corrosion resistance decrease. It was reason why Chris Reeve few years ago uses 57-58 HRC for Sebenza. Main reason was to get high corrosion resistance. But people wanted more edge retention, so Chris change his policy and now we get 59-60 HRC. More edge retention and less corrosion resistance.

Thats not true. he said it himself that he wanted it to be easier to sharpen for his customers. thats why it was lower hrc. he switched to s35vn for higher corrosion resistance.

spider5001 check out tindallknives.com and his Instagram I've asked about his heat treatment on 01, he's a cool guy and has awesome raffles for his knives.

thomas nardelli please goto school and learn proper English before buying any knives please.

thomas nardelli go with the strongarm...

well played but i have dyslexia

Which S1 are you thinking of? Lionsteel S1?

falkniven s1

legendzfall when?

lol... listen from like 3:50, that whole scene